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View Full Version : This Seems..........Odd........Any Thoughts?



suitanim
02-16-2012, 05:51 AM
Chuck Pagano was hired as the Colts new HC at the end of January. He was the Ravens DC for a year, and their secondary coach before that. I don't believe any two teams in the NFL have faced each other as much as the Ravens and Steelers over the last few years, between the 2 regular season match-ups plus playoff games against each other. They know each other well.

So do their coordinators.

They have to study film on each other, and not just in their previous match-ups, but really break down their opponents tendencies and game plans. (The more astute may already see where I'm headed here).

Pagano is getting his first crack at the bigs. He's never been a HC. This may be his one and only shot at it. Obviously the guy is going to do everything in his power to win and achieve success.

One week after he was hired, Pagano hired..........................Bruce Arians? Who would know Arians better? He had to study Arians gameplans for years, sometimes several times a year. If Pagano wants to win, can anyone explain to me why he would hire a "Lazy guy who doesn't prepare, adjust, and calls predictable grab-bag plays"?

I'm serious. I'd like to see what people think about this. And I don't even care (for the people who just can't help themselves) if the thread is peppered with the usual insults and ad homs, I'm really curious to see what people think is going on here.

Pristas
02-16-2012, 07:39 AM
He just wanted a buddy for Luck when he gets there.

Seriously? He wants to combine the knowledge base of the two best teams in the league for the New Colts. It will be just like New Coke.

Bluecoat96
02-16-2012, 07:49 AM
They did work together in Cleveland under Butch Davis. I would ASSume that their time together there had just as much influence in Arians' coming to Indy as the fact that they schemed against each other in BALT/PITT. I'd also say that judging by their 1 year as coordinators for their respective teams, Pagano got the best of Arians for the most part, except of course for the 92 yd drive in the last game we played against them.

I would think that Arians time with Manning when he first came into the league was an influence as well. Do you think Irsay or the Colts new GM whos name escapes me at the moment put a bug in Pagano's ear as well when Arians "retired?"

Steeldude
02-16-2012, 07:55 AM
If Pagano wants to win, can anyone explain to me why he would hire a "Lazy guy who doesn't prepare, adjust, and calls predictable grab-bag plays

Because he is gullible and will probably have a short-lived career as a HC in the NFL. Or perhaps Pagano likes to kick FGs when in the red zone. Or maybe he has a thing for bubble screens.

Devilsdancefloor
02-16-2012, 08:05 AM
:deadhorse:

i think everyone knows you are a huge BA fan can we just move on? Before it gets crazy in here please knock it off thanks

suitanim
02-16-2012, 08:50 AM
:deadhorse:

i think everyone knows you are a huge BA fan can we just move on? Before it gets crazy in here please knock it off thanks

Why would it "get crazy"? I think this is an extremely legitimate question. I mean, I know there is a certain bottom-feeder element who will say things like "Because Pagano is stupid", but I would like to see what the kmore thoughtful and knowledgable football people think of this. This has nothing to do with me, but everything to do with Pagano and the BA detractors.

This guy looks at Arians gameplans all the time. He breaks them down, and probably has spent hundreds of hours doing so, with and without others input and thoughts. Anyone suggesting that he's an idiot should look at the guys track record, and not JUST as DC, but also his success in everything he's done at every position he's filled on every team he's been on. Check out Oakland's pass defense in '06. Look into the Ravens pass defense even when depleted by injuries. Look at the Ravens defense last year. This is a legitimate coach, with an impeccable record, and he know Arains better than any of us possibly could. And he chose to make him one of his very first hires in his very first HC gig.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-16-2012, 09:32 AM
They did work together in Cleveland under Butch Davis. I would ASSume that their time together there had just as much influence in Arians' coming to Indy as the fact that they schemed against each other in BALT/PITT.

Good point, both part of the Butch Davis coaching tree. I would somehow guess that Larry Zeirline might be thought of as an O line consultant at some point, if he isnt working right now. He was part of that tree too.

suitanim
02-16-2012, 10:22 AM
That's all well and good, but the more familiar the guy is with Arians, wouldn't that further prove that he sees that BA is a good coordinator? I mean, if I worked with a coach and then had to plan against a coach, and he sucked, I'd know that more, not less.

zulater
02-16-2012, 11:07 AM
That's all well and good, but the more familiar the guy is with Arians, wouldn't that further prove that he sees that BA is a good coordinator? I mean, if I worked with a coach and then had to plan against a coach, and he sucked, I'd know that more, not less.

Arians is a good coach. He did a good job in Pittsburgh. I'm a little surprised that he got another coordinater's job as quickly as he did, not because I found him lacking as a coach, but because there's only 32 of those positions out there, and maybe only 4 available at the time. But good for him, I wish him well. I'm sure he'll do a good job there.

All that said, even though I expected him back in Pittsburgh next season, I can understand the reasoning behind the change. I think Rooney wants some subtle changes made in Ben's game and due to Ben and Bruce's close personal relationship he didn't see Bruce bringing about those changes.

Personally I'm optimistic that the change will prove beneficial to all parties in the end, even if there may be some initial growing pains. I look at it this way. I've had some great teachers, instructors, and mentors over the years. I can single out several that have had more positive influence than others. But in the end it's the diversity of views that's made me what I am today. In other words I think Ben's learned all that he was ever going to learn from Bruce. And now he's come to a point where another voice was needed to take Ben down that final path to ultimate greatness. And even if Haley has no great ideas to improve upon Ben's play. The simple fact that Ben now knows there's doubt inside the organization about the direction he was headed, he'll redouble his efforts to prove them wrong. The bigger the chip is on Ben's shoulder, the better he usually plays.

tube517
02-16-2012, 11:21 AM
Familiarity and comfort. Fisher is bringing his guys to St Louis. Parcells used to bring his guys everywhere. Not really a surprise knowing their history. Good for Pagano and Arians. I'm no Arians hater or lover. But they both have bigger issues to deal with (manning/luck)

SteelGhost
02-16-2012, 01:19 PM
Arians is a good coach. He did a good job in Pittsburgh. I'm a little surprised that he got another coordinater's job as quickly as he did, not because I found him lacking as a coach, but because there's only 32 of those positions out there, and maybe only 4 available at the time. But good for him, I wish him well. I'm sure he'll do a good job there.

All that said, even though I expected him back in Pittsburgh next season, I can understand the reasoning behind the change. I think Rooney wants some subtle changes made in Ben's game and due to Ben and Bruce's close personal relationship he didn't see Bruce bringing about those changes.

Personally I'm optimistic that the change will prove beneficial to all parties in the end, even if there may be some initial growing pains. I look at it this way. I've had some great teachers, instructors, and mentors over the years. I can single out several that have had more positive influence than others. But in the end it's the diversity of views that's made me what I am today. In other words I think Ben's learned all that he was ever going to learn from Bruce. And now he's come to a point where another voice was needed to take Ben down that final path to ultimate greatness. And even if Haley has no great ideas to improve upon Ben's play. The simple fact that Ben now knows there's doubt inside the organization about the direction he was headed, he'll redouble his efforts to prove them wrong. The bigger the chip is on Ben's shoulder, the better he usually plays.

Nice post Zu :thumbsup:

Count Steeler
02-16-2012, 05:44 PM
Arians seemed like a good fit for Indy. He loves the city, he was the QB coach for Manning. Pagano is familiar with Bruce and he likes his philosophy.
Rooney gave Arians 5 years in Pittsburgh and decided he wanted to go another route. No big deal, except for you.

What is it you want Suit? An apology from Rooney? A declaration from Steelers Nation that an egregious wrong has been committed? That no one can possibly coach this team better than Arians did?

Coaches are like a carousel in the NFL. Once you are on the ride, you change positions once and a while. Tomlin was a courageous hire for the Rooneys. Art felt it was time to change OCs on HIS team. I'm looking forward to this season and I wish Arians the best of Luck in Indy.

Mach1
02-16-2012, 06:35 PM
Pagano is a nobody who will go the way of tony sparano, josh mcdaniels, and steve spagnolo w/in 3 years especially after the horrible hire of arians to coach an offense with no talent other than a rookie qb.

The colts don't have Ben or a defense to bail the coaches out.

Psycho Ward 86
02-16-2012, 07:13 PM
because he's a rookie head coach who is inclined to make mistakes and you've been singing this song outside Brucie's house every night to no avail:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-enjcgV1o

suitanim
02-17-2012, 05:26 AM
(sigh)

NCSteeler
02-18-2012, 03:48 AM
As they say the proof is in the pudding, yet you can't seem to wait until the pudding is ready. Soon the season will be starting and you can start finding excuses for why the Colts offense sucks.
Your giving Pagano way too much credit for thinking Arians is some genius and a great hire. It's not like some super team fired thier guy to get arians. This is a first time HC , if he had hired anyone else you wouldn't be salivating our that OC as a great hire.

P.S. GET OVER IT ALREADY

Count Steeler
02-18-2012, 04:19 AM
What is it you want Suit? An apology from Rooney? A declaration from Steelers Nation that an egregious wrong has been committed? That no one can possibly coach this team better than Arians did?



Arians had 5 years as OC in Pittsburgh. He had some of the best skilled players in the league. He had a crappy O Line.

Pagano prepared for him 2-3 games a season. Rooney watched him for 80+ games. For now I trust Rooney over Pagano.

(sigh)

86WARD
02-18-2012, 06:46 AM
Arians is predictable, average at best. It will show during his time in Indy. Just like it did in Pittsburgh, just like it did in Cleveland. The big difference will be the personnel and why you will most likely see him return to "the Cleveland days."

86WARD
02-18-2012, 06:51 AM
Arians seemed like a good fit for Indy. He loves the city, he was the QB coach for Manning. Pagano is familiar with Bruce and he likes his philosophy.
Rooney gave Arians 5 years in Pittsburgh and decided he wanted to go another route. No big deal, except for you.

What is it you want Suit? An apology from Rooney? A declaration from Steelers Nation that an egregious wrong has been committed? That no one can possibly coach this team better than Arians did?

Coaches are like a carousel in the NFL. Once you are on the ride, you change positions once and a while. Tomlin was a courageous hire for the Rooneys. Art felt it was time to change OCs on HIS team. I'm looking forward to this season and I wish Arians the best of Luck in Indy.

Lol...

pepsyman1
02-18-2012, 06:51 AM
(sigh)

Suit...who cares anymore? It's over, move on. Reality check, if Peyton returns to play in Indy next year Arians isn't gonna change an offense that's been in place scoring big points for the last decade. If he doesn't, the Colts are gonna struggle offensively with a rookie pretty much regardless what scheme is in place. Let it go already.

Count Steeler
02-18-2012, 09:39 AM
Suit...who cares anymore? It's over, move on. Reality check, if Peyton returns to play in Indy next year Arians isn't gonna change an offense that's been in place scoring big points for the last decade. If he doesn't, the Colts are gonna struggle offensively with a rookie pretty much regardless what scheme is in place. Let it go already.

If Colts do well, "See Arians just needed 1 more year." If Colts do poorly, "See Arians is a genius, but (insert excuse #)"

1 Players did not execute
2 Injuries took their toll
3 Rookie QB didn't get it yet.
4 Their are no good WRs.
5 Their is no RB.

:deadhorse:

suitanim
02-20-2012, 05:32 AM
Actually, there were like two solid well thought out answers in this thread. Thanks.

As for the Colts and Arians, I really don't care and won't be paying much attention until we face them again. I just thought it was interesting that a guy who is by all accounts a really solid coach decided to stake his career on BA on what may be his only shot at an NFL head coaching gig.

zulater
02-20-2012, 11:13 AM
Actually, there were like two solid well thought out answers in this thread. Thanks.

As for the Colts and Arians, I really don't care and won't be paying much attention until we face them again. I just thought it was interesting that a guy who is by all accounts a really solid coach decided to stake his career on BA on what may be his only shot at an NFL head coaching gig.

You're welcome. :wave:

:wink02:

Presumptuous s.o.b. aren't I? :chuckle:

suitanim
02-20-2012, 11:23 AM
You're welcome. :wave:

:wink02:

Presumptuous s.o.b. aren't I? :chuckle:

No, you're right. I was.............amused by all the people who took the low road, a variation on the theme "Because Pagano is stupid". The guy has as solid of a resume as any assistant coach in the NFL. He very much deserves his shot. He's not a stupid man, nor is he a bad coach.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done with the whole thing...I would, however, be willing to wager that the first members on the "Fire Haley" bandwagon will have been well-represented in this thread....

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-20-2012, 11:26 AM
You're welcome. :wave:

:wink02:

Presumptuous s.o.b. aren't I? :chuckle:

I think the other thought out answer was msafford and the Butch Davis coaching tree theory. The Law of Parsimony would seem to indicate it is the correct theory.

suitanim
02-20-2012, 11:33 AM
I think the other thought out answer was msafford and the Butch Davis coaching tree theory. The Law of Parsimony would seem to indicate it is the correct theory.

Yeah...It's at least a viable theory. Unlike your constant non-stop swarmy sarcasm, which is pretty much all you've contributed in re this matter.

But looks like you did learn a new phrase at least...which you are already overusing...

Devilsdancefloor
02-20-2012, 02:07 PM
:deadhorse:

i think everyone knows you are a huge BA fan can we just move on? Before it gets crazy in here please knock it off thanks

why everyone thinks AR2 is a meddlesome owner, but no one has said the Irsay hired BA is beyond me at this point. Irsay is more meddlesome then AR2

suitanim
02-20-2012, 03:57 PM
why everyone thinks AR2 is a meddlesome owner, but no one has said the Irsay hired BA is beyond me at this point. Irsay is more meddlesome then AR2

So that's it. It was all Isray.

So HE'S the idiot who isn't as smart as all the would-be OC's on this board.

Got it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-20-2012, 06:22 PM
Yeah...It's at least a viable theory. Unlike your constant non-stop swarmy sarcasm, which is pretty much all you've contributed in re this matter.

But looks like you did learn a new phrase at least...which you are already overusing...

Yes, I like to use it almost as much as "as hominem fallacy".

I used to remember somebody else complaining that all others could manage on this board were ad hominem attacks. Sorry again if an intellectual neophyte like myself, overuses any phrases from your lecture series.

Psycho Ward 86
02-20-2012, 07:23 PM
The guy has as solid of a resume as any assistant coach in the NFL. He very much deserves his shot. He's not a stupid man, nor is he a bad coach.



LOL. a good assistant coach does not necessarily make a good head coach (or vice versa).

See--> Dick Lebeau, Mike Nolan, Hue Jackson, Josh McDaniels, Romeo Crennel...and those are just a couple current examples

Devilsdancefloor
02-20-2012, 08:41 PM
So that's it. It was all Isray.

So HE'S the idiot who isn't as smart as all the would-be OC's on this board.

Got it.

Honestly if someone doesnt agree with you like to brow beat them about it. It is your theory of none at all. Why is it crazy to think Irsay who is a bit of a nut bar himself didnt tell pags who to hire as a OC DC or any other coaching vacancy for the Dolts? why is it not to far fetched to think the team owner played a part in the hire of BA? oh that is right it doesnt fit your theory at all.

suitanim
02-21-2012, 05:16 AM
Honestly if someone doesnt agree with you like to brow beat them about it. It is your theory of none at all. Why is it crazy to think Irsay who is a bit of a nut bar himself didnt tell pags who to hire as a OC DC or any other coaching vacancy for the Dolts? why is it not to far fetched to think the team owner played a part in the hire of BA? oh that is right it doesnt fit your theory at all.

Because there isn't any evidence that he did. If the very first thing my owner did was strong-arm me into picking an OC I didn't want, or knew to be ineffective, I'd have a big, big, big problem with it. And I'm not "browbeating", I'm again pointing out how far from the facts peoples wild and fantastical excuses will go to avoid having to confront an uncomfortable truth.

Psycho Ward 86
02-21-2012, 10:06 PM
Because there isn't any evidence that he did. If the very first thing my owner did was strong-arm me into picking an OC I didn't want, or knew to be ineffective, I'd have a big, big, big problem with it. And I'm not "browbeating", I'm again pointing out how far from the facts peoples wild and fantastical excuses will go to avoid having to confront an uncomfortable truth.

and what would that truth be :lol:

NCSteeler
02-22-2012, 02:09 AM
For all we know Chuck is in line to be the next REx Ryan or Marvin Lewis. I mean heck they were great D coord for the ravens right, both were thought well of and they have had extreme success as HCs. Especially in hiring OCs and running great prolific offenses.

suitanim
02-22-2012, 05:27 AM
and what would that truth be :lol:

That he's a better OC than many of you will ever be able to admit, now that you've painted yourself into a corner.

bayz101
02-22-2012, 06:24 AM
That he's a better OC than many of you will ever be able to admit, now that you've painted yourself into a corner.

:doh2:

suitanim
02-22-2012, 09:27 AM
Zu's post nailed it. And he did not have his contract renewed NOT because he was some kind of abject failure, but rather Rooney simply wanted a change and it's his team.