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View Full Version : Rooney II's meddling with Tomlin's staff is very un-Steelers-like



polamalubeast
02-13-2012, 01:38 PM
This is what we know about a story that continues to grow and may not go away anytime soon.

We know Mike Tomlin has appeared in two Super Bowls, winning one. He's one of the best young coaches in the NFL. We know that Tomlin wanted offensive coordinator Bruce Arians back. Multiple league sources confirm a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette report that Tomlin told his staff Arians was returning. Arians, I am told, then informed friends around the league of the same news.

This is also what we know. The president of the Steelers, Art Rooney II, overruled Tomlin on keeping Arians. Sources confirm this as well. We also know that no one on the Steelers has denied any of this and they've had plenty of opportunity. There's been nothing but extremely loud silence from Tomlin in particular.

Now, in the future, my guess is Tomlin will play the good soldier and at some point say everything is cool. Yet no one will believe Tomlin, and now this has become one of the bigger stories of the offseason.


read more

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17245562/rooney-iis-meddling-with-tomlins-coaching-staff-is-shockingly-unsteelerslike

Devilsdancefloor
02-13-2012, 01:46 PM
wait no "sources"? I really think that the media wants to make this a HUGE deal, which it is NOT.

ALLD
02-13-2012, 01:57 PM
A slimey way in trying to sell subscriptions.

fansince'76
02-13-2012, 02:09 PM
The Steelers were fine. They were stable. They didn't need to make these moves. They weren't 4-12 last season; they went 12-4. The only thing that stopped them was a gimpy Roethlisberger and the fact Tim Tebow exposed Troy Polamalu's occasionally clumsy pass covering skills. That's it. The offense wasn't the problem. The Steelers could have easily won a Super Bowl this year with Arians. Adding Haley into the mix is like tossing a stick of dynamite into a placid lake.

Apologist. :chuckle:

tube517
02-13-2012, 02:32 PM
Rooney=Jones=Snyder. All the same. :chuckle:

suitanim
02-13-2012, 02:43 PM
I'd hate to see a sea-change in Steelers philosophy take place right under the fans noses and them NOT see it because they simply refused to.

At this point, all we see is smoke. But there could be fire here.

And PLEASE don't attack ME because I hav maintained that there COULD be something going on here that the fans ultimately won't like. The NFL is a business, and the Steelers are a FAMILY business, but lots of kids have ruined lots of family businesses before. It's at least plausible that something rotten could be going on in Denmark...

SteelGhost
02-13-2012, 02:49 PM
I'd hate to see a sea-change in Steelers philosophy take place right under the fans noses and them NOT see it because they simply refused to.

At this point, all we see is smoke. But there could be fire here.

And PLEASE don't attack ME because I hav maintained that there COULD be something going on here that the fans ultimately won't like. The NFL is a business, and the Steelers are a FAMILY business, but lots of kids have ruined lots of family businesses before. It's at least plausible that something rotten could be going on in Denmark...

I HOPE :pray: there's only smoke Suit

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-13-2012, 03:07 PM
I HOPE :pray: there's only smoke Suit

Snoop is a big Steelers fan, he was just visiting. That's the smoke you were seeing.

SteelGhost
02-13-2012, 03:10 PM
Snoop is a big Steelers fan, he was just visiting. That's the smoke you were seeing.

:lol:

salamander
02-13-2012, 05:13 PM
Is it September yet?:ranger:

steel9guy
02-13-2012, 05:35 PM
As much as I'm happy about the move I still aint crazy about the way this stuff was handled if it is true.

steel9guy
02-13-2012, 05:36 PM
I'd hate to see a sea-change in Steelers philosophy take place right under the fans noses and them NOT see it because they simply refused to.

At this point, all we see is smoke. But there could be fire here.

And PLEASE don't attack ME because I hav maintained that there COULD be something going on here that the fans ultimately won't like. The NFL is a business, and the Steelers are a FAMILY business, but lots of kids have ruined lots of family businesses before. It's at least plausible that something rotten could be going on in Denmark...

Yes^This

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-13-2012, 05:53 PM
Is it September yet?:ranger:

Sorry, Ward has not been released, neither has Mewelde Moore and we are not yet talking about all the weapons the offense has, with the "record setting potential" that Ben and this offense will have.

Stay tuned though.

BlastFurnace
02-13-2012, 05:58 PM
I'd hate to see a sea-change in Steelers philosophy take place right under the fans noses and them NOT see it because they simply refused to.

At this point, all we see is smoke. But there could be fire here.

And PLEASE don't attack ME because I hav maintained that there COULD be something going on here that the fans ultimately won't like. The NFL is a business, and the Steelers are a FAMILY business, but lots of kids have ruined lots of family businesses before. It's at least plausible that something rotten could be going on in Denmark...

I don't always agree with you, but I share your suspicions with what is going on.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-13-2012, 06:08 PM
I don't always agree with you, but I share your suspicions with what is going on.

So now there is some kind of conspiracy theory of Rooney running roughshod over the Steelers, like he is the 2nd coming of Dan Snyder? I thought he was a genius for not listening to the torch and pitchfork crowd about Arians and now he is a mindless meddling owner?

Some would say that you can't have it both ways. :doh:

Edman
02-13-2012, 06:11 PM
And I would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling Rooneys.

SMR
02-13-2012, 06:34 PM
So now there is some kind of conspiracy theory of Rooney running roughshod over the Steelers, like he is the 2nd coming of Dan Snyder? I thought he was a genius for not listening to the torch and pitchfork crowd about Arians and now he is a mindless meddling owner?

Some would say that you can't have it both ways. :doh:

I'm with you on that. I think some people are just over-reacting.

smokin3000gt
02-13-2012, 06:35 PM
I don't understand what the big fuss is all about. The Rooney's are responsible for every aspect of the franchise they own. Why is it so outrageous that they make executive decisions? I would question an owner that threw his hands up in the air and wasn't involved. Where I work I let my guys think for themselves but every once and a while I don't like what they're doing or the way they are going about it and I'll step in.

zulater
02-13-2012, 06:41 PM
So now there is some kind of conspiracy theory of Rooney running roughshod over the Steelers, like he is the 2nd coming of Dan Snyder? I thought he was a genius for not listening to the torch and pitchfork crowd about Arians and now he is a mindless meddling owner?



Some would say that you can't have it both ways. :doh:

^^^^

This!

zulater
02-13-2012, 06:42 PM
And I would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling Rooneys.

:lol:

BlastFurnace
02-13-2012, 06:49 PM
So now there is some kind of conspiracy theory of Rooney running roughshod over the Steelers, like he is the 2nd coming of Dan Snyder? I thought he was a genius for not listening to the torch and pitchfork crowd about Arians and now he is a mindless meddling owner?

Some would say that you can't have it both ways. :doh:

No. I don't think it's Daniel Snyder II, but I think there is some truth to the unrest. Just not sure to what extent.

O'Malley
02-13-2012, 06:55 PM
I don't remember who said this, but maybe Rooney stepped in per request of Tomlin to save face with Ben...

GBMelBlount
02-13-2012, 07:00 PM
Rooney II's meddling with Tomlin's staff is very un-Steelers-like....

and so is playing uninspired and without urgency....

the steelers had arguably the most talented team in the nfl and rarely played like it.

Something had to give and I am still glad Rooney did not renew Arians contract.

However the MEDIA is going to hypersensationalize this issue until THEY make it a real problem.

steelerdude15
02-13-2012, 07:27 PM
Gotta love the American media. Making nothing into something.

tube517
02-13-2012, 11:31 PM
And I would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling Rooneys.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9a/Scooby-gang-1969.jpg/250px-Scooby-gang-1969.jpg

:chuckle:

Count Steeler
02-14-2012, 05:11 AM
Art's last ditch attempt to play with his toy before Daddy comes home from Ireland. :sarcasm:

suitanim
02-14-2012, 05:32 AM
Look, I'm just saying that there could be somehting going on here. We've seen a couple odd things that may be out of character. Anyone who wants to whistle past the graveyard and act like there's nothing possibly amiss is, of course, as always free to do as they like. I'm just saying that kids trash family businesses all the time, and it's not inherent in each successive Rooney that they will all be as successful and above-board as their predecessor.

fansince'76
02-14-2012, 05:38 AM
Look, I'm just saying that there could be somehting going on here. We've seen a couple odd things that may be out of character. Anyone who wants to whistle past the graveyard and act like there's nothing possibly amiss id, of course, as always free to do as they like. I'm just saying that kids trash family businesses all the time, and it's not inherent in each successive Rooney that they will all be as successful and above-board as their predecessor.

The reason I'm not particularly worried about the current string of events is because ARII has been running the show in principle for a number of years now - I believe Dan essentially turned the keys over to him back in 2003. I expressed concerns over the way he handled Tomlin's hiring at the time (remember all the stories about Grimm reportedly being led to believe he had the job only to supposedly get the rug pulled out from under him at the last minute?) and the fears I expressed about him then turned out to be unfounded. Although ARII is not his father or his grandfather, I think the Steelers are in capable hands. I also think the media is blowing things WAY out of proportion. We'll be fine, I think.

Dino 6 Rings
02-14-2012, 08:00 AM
I don't remember who said this, but maybe Rooney stepped in per request of Tomlin to save face with Ben...


that was me...and that's what I think

suitanim
02-14-2012, 08:46 AM
The Law of Parsimony dictates that the simplest solution is usually the correct one.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-14-2012, 09:32 AM
The Law of Parsimony dictates that the simplest solution is usually the correct one.

I seem to remember that it was explained as: if you have multiple solutions that arrive at the same conclusion, the simplest solution is to be chosen until more facts present itself.

ie, Arians was fired because because he wasnt adequately performing his duties as an Offensive Coordinator. or, Hines Ward will be released because $4million is a lot to pay a #5 WR. Still waiting to see if more facts present themselves though.

suitanim
02-14-2012, 09:49 AM
It's also known as "Occam's Razor". But I don't want to have people start mocking me again for actually, you know, knowing stuff...

Your assertion is flawed: First off, the performance aspect was relative...Rooney was displeased, others were not. That is based on the evidence we have. Also, the Colts seemed to think highly enough of Arians performance to go ahead and quickly hire him. Secondly, there is a difference between being released due to poor performance and not having your services retained further due to a philosophical difference or wanting to simply make a change. In the business World, CEO's are often not retained even after they have success based on companies simply deciding to go in a different direction.

Finally, if we're simply looking at straight up success versus failure, it would seem that we were taking a step backwards: The Cards running game under Haley was putrid, the Chiefs PPG, YPG and W/L were all epic failures. In some sense, we traded better than average for worse than mediocre.

suitanim
02-14-2012, 09:57 AM
Anyway, back to the assertion that the simple solution is probably the correct one. By all accounts, most or all the FO was happy with the current staff and had no changes in mind. Rooney obviously wasn't and made the change. Trying to concoct wild scenarios based on nothing but speculation and bias, like saying that Tomlin wanted Arians gone too, and "used" Rooney to do his dirty work simply to play good cop/bad cop with Ben is.....well, it's like something one might see on a Soap Opera.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-14-2012, 11:04 AM
Seems like a rather complex way to arrive at the same result (Arians Fired). It appears that the simplest solution is that he wasnt performing.

After all, that is what the Law of Parsimony dictates, as you so graciously pointed out. Thanks for clearing that up. :wave:

suitanim
02-14-2012, 11:14 AM
Seems like a rather complex way to arrive at the same result (Arians Fired). It appears that the simplest solution is that he wasnt performing.

After all, that is what the Law of Parsimony dictates, as you so graciously pointed out. Thanks for clearing that up

No, no, no.....you're (of course) right again.

Arians was actually holding out for more money by threatening to retire. He was using Ben as leverage. Which is why BR was so publicly "dissing" the FO. But, really, we were doing this because we saw an OC yell at Brady, and decided our QB was getting too uppity, so while the Arians/Ben faction was pushing for one thing, secretly and behind their backs, Tomlin really wanted: A) Arians gone and B) Ben to change the way he played (even though he said the opposite of the former and nothing ever about the latter). Then Rooney had to step in because, even though Ben needed to be put in his place, he's also so important, and his ego is so fragile, that Tomlin needed Rooney to do the dirty work and save face with Ben. It was, after all, Ben who saved Arians job two years ago because everyone in the FO, Rooney included, wanted Arians gone. BR, after all, has that kind of pull, although he also doesn't.

"As the World Turns" ain't got nuthin' on you guys!

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-14-2012, 11:37 AM
No, no, no.....you're (of course) right again.

Arians was actually holding out for more money by threatening to retire. He was using Ben as leverage. Which is why BR was so publicly "dissing" the FO. But, really, we were doing this because we saw an OC yell at Brady, and decided our QB was getting too uppity, so while the Arians/Ben faction was pushing for one thing, secretly and behind their backs, Tomlin really wanted: A) Arians gone and B) Ben to change the way he played (even though he said the opposite of the former and nothing ever about the latter). Then Rooney had to step in because, even though Ben needed to be put in his place, he's also so important, and his ego is so fragile, that Tomlin needed Rooney to do the dirty work and save face with Ben. It was, after all, Ben who saved Arians job two years ago because everyone in the FO, Rooney included, wanted Arians gone. BR, after all, has that kind of pull, although he also doesn't.

"As the World Turns" ain't got nuthin' on you guys!

No sir,:hand: I thank you for educating myself and the rest of the Steelers Universe on the Law of Parsimony with respect to the entire Arians situation. Simplest answer is that he didnt perform and was shown the door.

It this a weekly series? Your talk on Cognitive Dissonance i am sure resonated with most of the posters here.

I look forward to your next lecture on "ad hominem fallacy". Great learning opportunities for a youth coach such as myself.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-14-2012, 11:38 AM
]:wave:

suitanim
02-14-2012, 11:41 AM
I'll let you have the last word. I know it's important to you...

O'Malley
02-14-2012, 12:40 PM
that was me...and that's what I think

Right on Dino, I'm with you on it!

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-14-2012, 12:47 PM
I'll let you have the last word. I know it's important to you...

Thank you so very much. :grouphug:

I look forward to the lecture series on ad hominem, should be a good one.:D

O'Malley
02-14-2012, 12:52 PM
The way this is going it's as if Arians is still the OC... He not.. He did not "meet the standard"... Time to move on! Haley, IMO is an upgrade from Bruce.. I hope he proves me right.. He should be able to get more out of the offense then Bruce.. As for Suits argument that Haley had a terrible run game in Arizona, and Terrible PPG in KC.. He won the division with KC, then all his key players got hurt last season... In Arizona he coached to the strengths of the Cardinals... Did a heck of a job.. Both teams were in the dumps and he brought them back to the playoffs, one to the Super Bowl...

suitanim
02-14-2012, 03:27 PM
The way this is going it's as if Arians is still the OC... He not.. He did not "meet the standard"... Time to move on! Haley, IMO is an upgrade from Bruce.. I hope he proves me right.. He should be able to get more out of the offense then Bruce.. As for Suits argument that Haley had a terrible run game in Arizona, and Terrible PPG in KC.. He won the division with KC, then all his key players got hurt last season... In Arizona he coached to the strengths of the Cardinals... Did a heck of a job.. Both teams were in the dumps and he brought them back to the playoffs, one to the Super Bowl...

I could make all the same arguments FOR Arians. But that's moot.

My point is that hypocrisy was "the standard" in re the fans handling of the whole Arians/Ben/Rooney thing. It still is. And it will be again with Haley. It's only a matter of time. No matter how much half-assed logic and piss-poor sarcasm and condescension (much of it ironic in it's misguidedness) is dished out and pontificated, history will certainly be repeating itself imminently.

BigNastyDefense
02-15-2012, 12:11 AM
In the end, it's Rooney that writes the checks and if he feels someone has not earned that paycheck, he's going to either fire him or not renew his contract when the time comes. Arians was technically not under contract, therefore it was not that hard of a decision to just not offer him a new contract, which is in the better interests financially of the Steelers than firing him later and paying him not to coach.

I wasn't one of the ones that wanted Arians thrown into the Ohio River, but I am also not upset that he was not retained. I felt the Steelers offense performed just well enough to compete for the Super Bowl, but that they could have been better for whatever reasons (better game planning, play calling, or the players just better executing). I think Haley is going to be better with the game plan and making in-game adjustments...and that he'll also play to the team's strengths and the match-ups against the opponent.

Haley turned around the Arizona Cardinals offense by calling plays to the strength of the team. The had Edge at the end of his career and Tim Hightower as the two main backs while Haley was there. So the strength wasn't running the football, it was slinging it around with Warner throwing to Fitz (the best receiver in football), Boldin (a top 15 receiver, and was probably top 10 when Haley was there), and Steve Breaston (who gained 1000 yards as a third string receiver with Haley calling the plays).

In Kansas City, he turned the Chiefs from a 4-12 team to a division winner. He did it by running Jamaal Charles a lot and putting Matt Cassel in a position to do well, not quite just manage a game...but to not screw it up. The defense also played lights out. Then last season some of their top players got hurt and missed all or a lot of the season. He got canned for it, and now he's in Pittsburgh in the hopes of taking the Steelers' offense towards the tops of the NFL.

I am expecting an offensive lineman, possibly a guard & maybe a tackle, in the first round. He'll run the ball with Redman as the starter. If we are playing a team weak against the run and good against the pass....then he'll come out with a run oriented offense and use the run to set up the pass. If it's an offense strong against the run but weak against the pass, then the offense will be more pass oriented and use that to set up the run.

But in the end, it's going to be up to the players to execute the plays called. Ben can't throw into double coverage when the Steelers are down by two scores. I trust Redman to at least take what's there and get a few yards by just hitting the hole...we won't have Mendenhall dancing like a damn ballerina waiting for a better hole to run through.

suitanim
02-15-2012, 05:31 AM
That's all well and good, but I still maintain that the first time we try to run on 3rd and 5 and only gain 4 yards, the same old people will be firing up the same old arguments...I'm not stating that it will be right, or logical, just saying that it will, for sure, happen.

O'Malley
02-15-2012, 02:12 PM
That's all well and good, but I still maintain that the first time we try to run on 3rd and 5 and only gain 4 yards, the same old people will be firing up the same old arguments...I'm not stating that it will be right, or logical, just saying that it will, for sure, happen.

I think all of us are going to give you the last word on this subject.. You win Suit...

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-15-2012, 02:23 PM
I think all of us are going to give you the last word on this subject.. You win Suit...

I thought that I was being given the last word because it was important to me???

This is just like Tomlin telling Arians that he want to keep him and now Rooney is ripping my right to have the last word. Guess I am just gonna "retire" and goto the Steelerfever board.

suitanim
02-15-2012, 02:23 PM
I think all of us are going to give you the last word on this subject.. You win Suit...

How so?

Or are you suggesting that 30 years of precedent will somehow change just because you don't care for the way I post?