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Mach1
02-10-2012, 01:21 PM
NFL from the sidelines
http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/

Thoughts on Haley

I have largely reserved my thoughts on the Steelers' hiring of Todd Haley to this point.

But after meeting with Haley today and then hearing what Ben Roethlisberger told the Post-Gazette, I can hold back no longer.

Roethlisberger reportedly told the P-G that he has heard from a lot of people regarding Haley, some good some bad, but that he is reserving judgment.

He then, however, said he'd hate to see the offense changed because it could set the team's young receivers back two or three years.

Which ones? The ones who have only been in the league for two or three years?

That is a ridiculous statement by Roethlisberger and, though Haley did not address the quarterback's comments directly, he did say that players usually see that he has their best interests at heart when he is doing things.

Roethlisberger liked Bruce Arians. And he was comfortable with Arians as offensive coordinator because he got to call a lot of the shots.

That dynamic is now gone and Roethlisberger is wary of what the results will be.

I get that.

But the Steelers made the decision to move on from Arians because they felt he was an enabler.

We always heard the excuses. The Steelers were a play away here or there, they weren't all on the same page, etc., etc.

Haley won't settle for excuses. He'll want results.

X-Terminator
02-10-2012, 01:35 PM
So in Lolley's mind, asking 3 young WR who have known only one system to all of a sudden be forced to learn a brand new system should be really easy to do. Uh...no, Dale. I don't blame Ben for being concerned about that - you need to have everyone on the same page for an offensive scheme to be successful. They'd basically be starting over from scratch. Having said all of this, Haley also said he doesn't anticipate changing too much from the playbook, so in that regard, Ben should have nothing to worry about.

oneforthetoe
02-10-2012, 01:52 PM
So in Lolley's mind, asking 3 young WR who have known only one system to all of a sudden be forced to learn a brand new system should be really easy to do. Uh...no, Dale. I don't blame Ben for being concerned about that - you need to have everyone on the same page for an offensive scheme to be successful. They'd basically be starting over from scratch. Having said all of this, Haley also said he doesn't anticipate changing too much from the playbook, so in that regard, Ben should have nothing to worry about.



I don't blame him either. However, he needs to zippy up his mouth and fall in line. He is not helping the situation. Ben has made great strides as a teammate over the last two seasons. I just hope he doesn't take steps backwards.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2012, 01:59 PM
So I am supposed to worry that 3rd and 4th year WR's will not be able to pick up an offense for another 2-3 years?? If that was the case, WR's would never want to leave the team they are on for a new team.

I guess DeSean Jackson and Mike Wallace are locks to avoid free agency and stay with their current teams. How did AJ Green, Julio Jones figure out that NFL offense so fast in a lockout season? Must have had high wonderlic scores.

st33lersguy
02-10-2012, 02:14 PM
Haley's Cardinals offenses scored over 400 points in 07 and 08. He seems to have a habit of getting the most out of offenses.

Mach1
02-10-2012, 02:20 PM
Antonio was drafted in 2010. For him to pick up the O in that short amount of time must put him at the same level of genius as arians.

Haley has stated he's not going to change things up that much so there shouldn't be that much more to learn. Ben's just butt hurt cause his bff is gone.

SCSTILLER
02-10-2012, 02:31 PM
I for one am excited to see what Haley can do with this talented offense (Oline being the exception in this sentence). He did good things in Arizona, and he did good things in KC. He, like has been mentioned before in many other threads regarding him, seems to work with what he has. I beleive that was the problem with Arians alot, he had a square block to work with but kept trying to jam it into the round hole. I thought the offense was a little too comfortable, bought into all the "explosive" hype, and didn't play up to the ability that they could have. Is this the QB's fault, the Olines fault, RB's fault, or OC's fault, I cannot say, but I am happy Arians is gone and I look forward to what I beleive is going to be much better offense next season. I also beleive that Haley will win over the offensive guys once they realize what he brings to the table.

Here's to hoping I am not wrong!

stillers4me
02-10-2012, 02:50 PM
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/3/12/32de6192-cbc2-4411-a557-3bb23453e19a.jpg

polamalubeast
02-10-2012, 02:50 PM
So I am supposed to worry that 3rd and 4th year WR's will not be able to pick up an offense for another 2-3 years?? If that was the case, WR's would never want to leave the team they are on for a new team.

I guess DeSean Jackson and Mike Wallace are locks to avoid free agency and stay with their current teams. How did AJ Green, Julio Jones figure out that NFL offense so fast in a lockout season? Must have had high wonderlic scores.

same for Cam Newton and Andy Dalton

Count Steeler
02-10-2012, 03:54 PM
Boo hoo hoo. Get to work and win the next ring.

X-Terminator
02-10-2012, 04:03 PM
I think the bottom line in all of this is that Ben, just like most anyone else, doesn't like change. He may be a professional athlete, but he's a human being with human emotions. I really don't think he has an issue with Haley at all, and I believe he will be able to work well with him. The guy spent the first 3 seasons of his career with Bill Cowher as his head coach. It's not like he's never been around a fiery coach before.

BTW, if he says nothing, like many of you have been advocating for, the stories you read wouldn't change much. They'd interpret his silence as an insurrection against Haley. So he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

X-Terminator
02-10-2012, 04:09 PM
So I am supposed to worry that 3rd and 4th year WR's will not be able to pick up an offense for another 2-3 years?? If that was the case, WR's would never want to leave the team they are on for a new team.

I guess DeSean Jackson and Mike Wallace are locks to avoid free agency and stay with their current teams. How did AJ Green, Julio Jones figure out that NFL offense so fast in a lockout season? Must have had high wonderlic scores.

Let's not kid ourselves - neither A.J. Green nor Julio Jones have fully picked up their offenses yet nor are they polished in their route running. You don't need a high Wonderlic score to understand "go long and jump really high."

suitanim
02-10-2012, 04:12 PM
So......um......what exactly is he gonna do if he doesn't "Get results"?

Scream and yell?

Blame others?

This is just more momsense in a long and steady stream of nonsense....

Mach1
02-10-2012, 04:18 PM
So......um......what exactly is he gonna do if he doesn't "Get results"?

Scream and yell?

Blame others?

This is just more momsense in a long and steady stream of nonsense....

He could just break out the arians excuse rolodex.

Texasteel
02-10-2012, 04:33 PM
Personally I think Ben expressed a lagitimate thought, and it didn't sound to me that he was being disrepectful in doing it. I have seen players that have been playing alot more than 3 years have trouble when they switched teams and offenses. Now Ben says he is worried about changing the offense, and he's the devil. Ben has a right to his oppinion, and I have no doubt that this oppinion will not cause him not to do the best he can to make what ever offense work to the best of his ability. IMO I think a lot of people need to cool down and stop trying to stretch every word spoken in all directions. Ben is going to be fine the WR will be fine, and the new OC will do fine. I do think there will be a few rough spots at the begining, and I have an idea the new OC thinks this as well. Hopefully these rough spot will get smoothed out in TC.

O'Malley
02-10-2012, 05:00 PM
I don't see much change.. Verbage is basically the same.. I just see plays that don't work being thrown out and plays that do work kept in.. With a few tweaks and peaks here and there... Offseason drama.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2012, 05:12 PM
Let's not kid ourselves - neither A.J. Green nor Julio Jones have fully picked up their offenses yet nor are they polished in their route running. You don't need a high Wonderlic score to understand "go long and jump really high."

So its gonna take 2 years for Mike Wallace to "go long and run past the DB"?? Ben being concerned about his young receivers is just more pouting because the OC that he wanted is in Indianapolis right now.

Things are gonna be OK with the WR's picking up the offense. The problem will be that the QB has to pick up the offense and it might be tougher to do that on the golf course working on the handicap. Nobody likes change, expecially the guy that has to do most of the work.

Steeldude
02-10-2012, 07:03 PM
So in Lolley's mind, asking 3 young WR who have known only one system to all of a sudden be forced to learn a brand new system should be really easy to do. Uh...no, Dale. I don't blame Ben for being concerned about that - you need to have everyone on the same page for an offensive scheme to be successful. They'd basically be starting over from scratch. Having said all of this, Haley also said he doesn't anticipate changing too much from the playbook, so in that regard, Ben should have nothing to worry about.

It shouldn't be difficult. Take the playbook home and read it 24/7. All they need to do is apply themselves. IMO, BR sounds lazy and is pouting. Now BR might have to make quick reads rather than run around playing school yard ball.

X-Terminator
02-10-2012, 07:54 PM
So its gonna take 2 years for Mike Wallace to "go long and run past the DB"?? Ben being concerned about his young receivers is just more pouting because the OC that he wanted is in Indianapolis right now.

Things are gonna be OK with the WR's picking up the offense. The problem will be that the QB has to pick up the offense and it might be tougher to do that on the golf course working on the handicap. Nobody likes change, expecially the guy that has to do most of the work.

Deliberate misread.

I said as ROOKIES, which both Green and Jones were, the deep routes are easiest to learn and are picked up first. The precision routes come later as they learn the offensive scheme and start to feel comfortable with it. Last I checked, Wallace is NOT a rookie, and had the same "growing pains" last season as well as late in this season. You think Tomlin called him a "one-trick pony" for nothing? Anyway, all of this is moot since Haley has said he uses the same terminology and isn't going to change much about the scheme itself. So we're arguing over something that isn't going to happen, and Ben is worried over nothing.

NCSteeler
02-10-2012, 08:13 PM
everything I have heard from haley indicates he's keeping the calls similar but changing the offense attitude , I like what he's saying so far. If Ben cannot get on board, he can ride on down to Indy and we'll draft Luck. I love Ben but he needs to get his head right and just work hard at getting this new deal right.

Count Steeler
02-10-2012, 08:32 PM
Perhaps the real problem with our offense is emerging before our eyes. The problem is Ben and his attitude. Now I put little credence in many off season reports about many issues in football. However, Ben is acting immature at the moment. Meet with your OC and get on board. Get your team on board. Let's get cracking.

zulater
02-10-2012, 08:54 PM
He's a little bit scared of change, he's trying to defend the offense that was previously in place. All very understandable imo.

But I'm not particularly worried about it. I think we need to be a little more patient, and wait to see what Ben's response is after our first OTA's. My guess is that once things start getting operational his enthusiasm will take hold, and his reservations about Haley and whatever new wrinkles are added to the offense will ebb.

oneforthetoe
02-10-2012, 09:10 PM
He's a little bit scared of change, he's trying to defend the offense that was previously in place. All very understandable imo.

But I'm not particularly worried about it. I think we need to be a little more patient, and wait to see what Ben's response is after our first OTA's. My guess is that once things start getting operational his enthusiasm will take hold, and his reservations about Haley and whatever new wrinkles are added to the offense will ebb.

I would be more worried if Ben's contract was up soon. However, the chances are that Ben will be here longer than Haley, since Haley will be fired if things go poorly, or if things go well, he will likely get another HC'ing offer.

wyn50
02-10-2012, 10:48 PM
Hopefully he does well and stays for a long time like Lebeau :lol:

steelerdude15
02-11-2012, 01:34 AM
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/3/12/32de6192-cbc2-4411-a557-3bb23453e19a.jpg

:rofl2:

Iron Steeler
02-11-2012, 05:04 AM
Boo hoo hoo. Get to work and win the next ring.
True

Iron Steeler
02-11-2012, 05:10 AM
I would love to see this forums reaction when haley s first play call is a bubble screen !
:lol:

ALLD
02-11-2012, 07:17 AM
IMHO, it looks like a good hire. This team needs some fire and discipline. The Giants won the SB because of several reasons with one being that they executed at critical times and made few mistakes. Hayley won't appeal to everybody, but I think the majority of the team will respond positively.

86WARD
02-11-2012, 08:17 AM
If Kurt Warner can do it, Ben can do it that much better. No worries.

SteelerEmpire
02-11-2012, 09:05 AM
I'm all for Haley. He brings an element of fire that I think this team needs. The playing down to inferior opponents over the years, SB hangovers, etc... Haley could very well be what the offense needs. Arians seemed to take the "whatever" approach towards the offense and seemed to have no passion.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-11-2012, 09:16 AM
Deliberate misread.

I said as ROOKIES, which both Green and Jones were, the deep routes are easiest to learn and are picked up first. The precision routes come later as they learn the offensive scheme and start to feel comfortable with it. Last I checked, Wallace is NOT a rookie, and had the same "growing pains" last season as well as late in this season. You think Tomlin called him a "one-trick pony" for nothing? Anyway, all of this is moot since Haley has said he uses the same terminology and isn't going to change much about the scheme itself. So we're arguing over something that isn't going to happen, and Ben is worried over nothing.

What is a delibirate misread?

Ben is allegedly saying that change in offenses could set his young receivers back 2-3 years in development. I am of the opinion that that is a pile of crap.....Reason- It didnt take rookies like Green or Jones 2-3 years to excel and they are rookies. Brown, Sanders, Wallace will be 3-4 year NFL veterans and should clearly be able to adapt to something that isnt gonna be that different.

If its true that Ben believes this. Then its just some whiny crap because he didnt get his way about the OC position. They need to move on, be professionals and do what Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, DeSean Jackson, etc will do next year. Learn a new offense.

suitanim
02-13-2012, 05:20 AM
It's interesting to watch a fanbase turn on their QB...

zulater
02-13-2012, 05:44 AM
It's interesting to watch a fanbase turn on their QB...

It's sort of like with a prize 3 year old colt in my business. Sometimes you have to rock him back on his heels a little if he's feeling his oats too much and becomes overbearing and unmanageable.

Remember Rooney's own words were he's looking for a "tweak" in Ben's playing style. He's voiced concern over the continued pounding that Ben subject's himself to.

Ben's game from the pocket is underrated. Those who suggest that Ben's magic would dry up if he was forced to play more disciplined just aren't watching him close enough. And even at that I don't think they're trying to take his improvisational game away entirely, I think it's more a matter of asking him to be a little smarter in picking his spots. Ben's situational awareness needs to be more acute. Hopefully that's what Haley will try to accomplish.

Dino 6 Rings
02-13-2012, 10:57 AM
My guess is that as a passing team it will be more efficient, and Ben will actually excel with Todd Haley calling the plays. I hope this is true, but I have a feeling with the talent the Steelers offense does have on the roster, the offense will actually be better. If the Red Zone numbers can be better, Ben will have more passing TDs than last year and maybe get to 4K yards again. If our RBs and Oline can get into a groove, I think our Offense can be a top 10 offense overall in yards and scoring.

Iron Steeler
02-13-2012, 11:18 AM
It's interesting to watch a fanbase turn on their QB...

I cheer for the Pittsburgh Steelers not the ben roethlisbergers.

Don't get me wrong I love ben. But he has to realize that the Rooney s are making this change to help the team and really to help him as well. He'll appreciate it when he is healthy for a full season and not banged up in the playoffs.

fansince'76
02-13-2012, 11:52 AM
I cheer for the Pittsburgh Steelers not the ben roethlisbergers.

Don't get me wrong I love ben. But he has to realize that the Rooney s are making this change to help the team and really to help him as well. He'll appreciate it when he is healthy for a full season and not banged up in the playoffs.

And until Ben actually causes a problem in a practice/game situation, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as opposed to taking the word of a bunch of hack writers and idiot bloggers who are painting him as a malcontent and, IMO, are doing their damnedest to turn the whole thing into a soap opera because they have nothing better to write about. In my eyes, he's earned it and they haven't.

suitanim
02-13-2012, 01:21 PM
I just find it odd that people are attacking him more for this then:

-The motorcycle incident
-The bathroom incident
-The hotel incident
-His general poor demeanor over his first few years in the NFL

I guess I didn't realize just how much animosity there was built up towards Arians, and, in his absence, Ben as his proxy...I mean I knew, but I didn't KNOW.

X-Terminator
02-13-2012, 02:20 PM
What is a delibirate misread?

Ben is allegedly saying that change in offenses could set his young receivers back 2-3 years in development. I am of the opinion that that is a pile of crap.....Reason- It didnt take rookies like Green or Jones 2-3 years to excel and they are rookies. Brown, Sanders, Wallace will be 3-4 year NFL veterans and should clearly be able to adapt to something that isnt gonna be that different.

If its true that Ben believes this. Then its just some whiny crap because he didnt get his way about the OC position. They need to move on, be professionals and do what Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, DeSean Jackson, etc will do next year. Learn a new offense.

And I'm saying it's easier to "excel" as a rookie when you are only using 1/2 the playbook. Both Green and Jones will be MUCH more lethal once they become more comfortable within the ENTIRE offense.

You say it's easy to learn an entirely new offense in basically no time flat. I disagree. Any of those guys above who have spent their entire careers in one offensive scheme will take time to adapt to a new one. Will it take 2-3 years? No - that is an exaggeration. But it WILL take time.

Again, I just think Ben fears change. There's nothing wrong with that. It's how you adapt to the change that will tell a tale, and I think given time, Ben will adapt to whatever changes Haley implements, as minute as they may be. And I really believe people are making way more of this than they should.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-13-2012, 02:52 PM
You say it's easy to learn an entirely new offense in basically no time flat. I disagree. Any of those guys above who have spent their entire careers in one offensive scheme will take time to adapt to a new one. Will it take 2-3 years? No - that is an exaggeration. But it WILL take time.

.

I never said it would take no time flat. I too think that 2-3 years is an exaggeration. Honestly, if any new aspects of an offense are delivered in the next month, then with OTA's, training camp, etc....they should have 80% of it in by opening day and then expand from there.

San Francisco seemed to introduce a new Head Coach, OC, playbook, etc and do reasonably well. Sounds like Haley is only implying evolution of the offense, not revolution.

tube517
02-13-2012, 03:58 PM
I just find it odd that people are attacking him more for this then:

-The motorcycle incident
-The bathroom incident
-The hotel incident
-His general poor demeanor over his first few years in the NFL

I guess I didn't realize just how much animosity there was built up towards Arians, and, in his absence, Ben as his proxy...I mean I knew, but I didn't KNOW.

I know one forum where it blew up because of the Millidgeville incident. The Arians love/hate in this forum was nothing compared to that. The participation declined by 50% since then.

Texasteel
02-14-2012, 05:24 AM
Please keep this thread about the posts, and not the members making the posts.

suitanim
02-14-2012, 05:36 AM
I know one forum where it blew up because of the Millidgeville incident. The Arians love/hate in this forum was nothing compared to that. The participation declined by 50% since then.

We're just getting started on this one, though.