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View Full Version : Pittsburgh Steelers: Who Benefits the Most from the Todd Haley Hire?



polamalubeast
02-07-2012, 07:24 PM
On Tuesday, the Pittsburgh Steelers named Todd Haley as their next offensive coordinator.

The former Kansas City Chiefs head coach and Arizona Cardinals offensive coordinator will be a stark contrast to the Steelers' former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

Haley is well-known for his fiery style and this may rub some players and coaches the wrong way. However, he is also a good offensive mind who will help push the Steelers in the right direction offensively.

While with the Chiefs, Haley had one of the best rushing attacks in the league, including the top rushing attack in 2010 behind Jamaal Charles and Thomas Jones. Though he never had a an elite offense in Kansas City, he did focus the offense around the team's strength which was running the ball.

That does not mean Haley isn't willing to open up the offense. At one point while in Arizona, he coached the worst rushing offense in the league, but that was because he had Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald to work with.

Under Whisenhunt, Haley began to call plays late in the 2007 season before taking over full-time in 2008 when he helped direct an explosive Cardinals' offense.

The 2008 Cardinals finished second in the league in passing (292.1 ypg) and set a franchise scoring record with 26.7 points per game, which ranked third in the league. They ranked seventh in scoring in 2007.

It is this type of production that the Steelers will expect from their offense next year and why Haley will now be in control of their offense.

Here is who will benefit from the presence of Haley at offensive coordinator


read more

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1057801-pittsburgh-steelers-who-benefits-the-most-from-the-todd-haley-hire#/articles/1057801-pittsburgh-steelers-who-benefits-the-most-from-the-todd-haley-hire

Psycho Ward 86
02-07-2012, 08:29 PM
Now THAT's tough to say

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-07-2012, 08:46 PM
I think the fans on this board benefit the most.
1. The Arians fans can no engage in their myopic hate of the new hire, because nobody will ever match up to Bruce.
2. The Arians haters can now have a new OC to hate when things go wrong.
3. The myopic Arians haters can now defend Haley when things go wrong and say what a great hire he was when things go right.

Nobody loses on this board.

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 08:54 PM
Good question. I can't answer it.

fansince'76
02-07-2012, 08:59 PM
I think the fans on this board benefit the most.
1. The Arians fans can no engage in their myopic hate of the new hire, because nobody will ever match up to Bruce.
2. The Arians haters can now have a new OC to hate when things go wrong.
3. The myopic Arians haters can now defend Haley when things go wrong and say what a great hire he was when things go right.

Nobody loses on this board.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Devilsdancefloor
02-07-2012, 09:01 PM
id say the D i think they will get more rest followed by the WR & Ben

tube517
02-07-2012, 09:12 PM
I think the fans on this board benefit the most.
1. The Arians fans can no engage in their myopic hate of the new hire, because nobody will ever match up to Bruce.
2. The Arians haters can now have a new OC to hate when things go wrong.
3. The myopic Arians haters can now defend Haley when things go wrong and say what a great hire he was when things go right.

Nobody loses on this board.

I respectfully disagree. This may be the end. The Bruce Arians thread (lovers and haters :grouphug:) will continue endlessly so that it will have to create its own board with different Arians' topics. Thus leaving nobody at SU. :chuckle:

JayC
02-07-2012, 09:19 PM
he didn't ever coach the browns? good enough for me

fansince'76
02-07-2012, 09:22 PM
I respectfully disagree. This may be the end. The Bruce Arians thread (lovers and haters :grouphug:) will continue endlessly so that it will have to create its own board with different Arians' topics. Thus leaving nobody at SU. :chuckle:

We can always create an Arians subforum, you know. :chuckle:

st33lersguy
02-07-2012, 10:24 PM
The entire offense as a whole. They will benefit from no more bubble screen bullcrap

SteelGhost
02-07-2012, 10:32 PM
I think the fans on this board benefit the most.
1. The Arians fans can no engage in their myopic hate of the new hire, because nobody will ever match up to Bruce.
2. The Arians haters can now have a new OC to hate when things go wrong.
3. The myopic Arians haters can now defend Haley when things go wrong and say what a great hire he was when things go right.

Nobody loses on this board.

Good one Gonzo :rofl2:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-07-2012, 11:01 PM
Good one Gonzo :rofl2:
Thanks......I'm here all week. Try the veal and don't forget to tip your hater...I mean waiter. ;)

GodfatherofSoul
02-07-2012, 11:27 PM
Big Ben. He'll probably get 5 more years tacked on his career that he would otherwise spend hobbling around injured.

pepsyman1
02-08-2012, 02:55 AM
The most meaningful thing pointed out in the article is that Haley does have a history of making good use of a teams talent. He's done it with both a strong passing game and with a strong running game when that was the talented presented to him. I think that bodes very well for us because we have strong skills talent for both and I'm really excited to see if he can get Mendi and Redman more involved in the passing game and keep Ben upright and healthy.

suitanim
02-08-2012, 05:23 AM
The "He-man Arians Haters Club" will simply rename itself the "He-man Haley Haters Club". That rolls off the tongue more nicely anyway.

The first time we run it on 3rd and 5 and lose 2 yards, they'll start clamoring: "Dammit, Haley, you should have passed!". So, for that group, this is a wash.

zulater
02-08-2012, 05:49 AM
I can only speak for myself. I never had a problem with Whisenhunt. When he was in Pittsburgh I considered him an up and comer, and knew that his Steelers tenure would eventually be ended by a head coaching position. For a while I thought that would be as Cowher's successor. But regardless, I have no memory of myself or of my immediate circle of Steelers friends constantly clamoring for change from the Steelers offensive approach in Ken's 3 years as the OC. Even the sub par 2006 season wasn't thrown at the feet of the offense, other than the shoddy handling of Ben and his injuries. And I think I speak for most when I say the blame for that belongs to Bill Cowher, who rushed Ben prematurely back into the line up early in the season after his appendectomy, and then once again rushed him back after Ben was knocked cold in Atlanta, and played him in Oakland when he was clearly still recovering from concussion like symptoms.

For the most part I thought Arians did a good job. But be it right or wrong I never put him on the same level as Whisenhunt.

So I anticipate I'll call 'em as I see 'em in regards to Haley. Going in I'm optimistic. I think he can bring about the change that's necessary to get our offense to the level it needs to be at in order for the Steelers to succeed in future seasons. But I also realize that change can take time, that sometimes you have to take a half step back in order to later take two steps forward. So I'll be patient next season, and give Haley and the offense a chance to mesh together before vocalizing any serious criticism.

GBMelBlount
02-08-2012, 06:02 AM
I've enjoyed the discussion about the positives and negatives of firing Arians and now hiring Haley.

Something had to give to give imo and I am just going to trust the FO both on Arians and Haley at this point.

I now consider this a blank canvas for Mr. Haley and wish him all the best.

Welcome to the greatest franchise in the NFL Mr. Haley.

Steeldude
02-08-2012, 06:08 AM
I hope Haley understands that BR is not a Kurt Warner.

zulater
02-08-2012, 06:13 AM
I hope Haley understands that BR is not a Kurt Warner.

He won games with Matt Cassell, so I'm thinking he can probably have some success with Ben.

Steeldude
02-08-2012, 06:13 AM
If Haley employs a grab-bag offense, which primarily uses long developing plays, the Arians Lovers will be rigid once more.

Steeldude
02-08-2012, 06:14 AM
He won games with Matt Cassell, so I'm thinking he can probably have some success with Ben.

That's what I am hoping for

fansince'76
02-08-2012, 08:16 AM
If Haley employs a grab-bag offense, which primarily uses long developing plays, the Arians Lovers will be rigid once more.

Only if it's a predictable "grab-bag"...

suitanim
02-08-2012, 09:03 AM
Only if it's a predictable "grab-bag"...

Sorry, that "whooshes" right over their heads. Self-contradictory as it may obviously be, they don't see it that way...

SteelGhost
02-08-2012, 11:07 AM
Thanks......I'm here all week. Try the veal and don't forget to tip your hater...I mean waiter. ;)

You're welcome :wink02:

BnG_Hevn
02-08-2012, 11:51 AM
Sorry, that "whooshes" right over their heads. Self-contradictory as it may obviously be, they don't see it that way...

I think you're missing the point with your dictionary words.

"Grab Bag", although it may imply random, it also implies "no planning". So "predictable no planning" is not contradicting. In fact, if a defense relies on the "random grab bagging" they may be more aggressive in certain situation due to the fact that there is "no plan" and the play is more or less a "panic play" which can be easily thwarted.

You see, predictable grab bagging can mean "the defense know the offense hasn't a clue as to what to call" which is in the defense's favor.

suitanim
02-08-2012, 12:02 PM
I think you're missing the point with your dictionary words.

"Grab Bag", although it may imply random, it also implies "no planning". So "predictable no planning" is not contradicting. In fact, if a defense relies on the "random grab bagging" they may be more aggressive in certain situation due to the fact that there is "no plan" and the play is more or less a "panic play" which can be easily thwarted.

You see, predictable grab bagging can mean "the defense know the offense hasn't a clue as to what to call" which is in the defense's favor.

Anyone who thinks that ANY offensive coordinator in the NFL doesn't plan for the game is a complete and utter moron. I guarantee Arians spent 60 hours a week MINIMUM watching film and planning. Probably more...and maybe a lot more.

The idea that Arians is stupid, lazy, doesn't know his way around and offense, or is somehow less knowledgeable than the posters here is so absolutely beyond absurd that there really are no words to describe that kind of ridiculous idiocy.

"Grab-bag" means he's just randomly calling plays. Which is stupid, dismissive, and wrong. We've been over this with the whole "One play just sets up another". The people who don't get it don't get it.

"Predictable" is probably even more absurd, because no one on this board has any clue what plays the Steelers are going to call from play-to-play. And if you put the two together, suggesting that an OC who panics and just randomly grabs plays out of a bag is also somehow predictable, you're really trudging into an area of such an astounding lack of logic and reason....well, it really, again, defies description.

But I do have to give you guys credit for mocking me for using "dictionary words". Reminds me of my buddy who did a summer internship working on an assembly line building toilets while he was in college. The other guys on the line (many of whom had high school educations or less, and were all laid off when the plant closed a few years later) openly MOCKED him for going to college. Attacking vocabulary is.............I'm running out of descriptive phrases here.

suitanim
02-08-2012, 12:08 PM
Also, if you read back through that post (before people start whining and bleeding in their tampons), I did not personally attack anyone. I attack the intelligence of people who display a lack of intelligence. If YOU want to place yourself in that category, feel free....but don't take it personally if you happen to fall into a general category that I described.

Steeldude
02-08-2012, 12:23 PM
Only if it's a predictable "grab-bag"...

As soon as Arians picks the play out of the bag, the defense will see the formation and easily predict which play he blindly grabbed.

Steeldude
02-08-2012, 12:25 PM
Anyone who thinks that ANY offensive coordinator in the NFL doesn't plan for the game is a complete and utter moron

ala Arians.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2012, 12:32 PM
As soon as Arians picks the play out of the bag, the defense will see the formation and easily predict which play he blindly grabbed.:pointlaugh:

O'Malley
02-08-2012, 12:45 PM
Also, if you read back through that post (before people start whining and bleeding in their tampons), I did not personally attack anyone. I attack the intelligence of people who display a lack of intelligence. If YOU want to place yourself in that category, feel free....but don't take it personally if you happen to fall into a general category that I described.

I'm still trying to figure out why your the final word on everything.... If Bruce was so good why is he not the OC anymore? If he wasn't predictable why could I call out what play they were running 85% of the time.. If I knew what was going to happen the opposition definatley knew what was coming.. If your so right, why did the Steelers FO let him go? Could it be your wrong on this matter.. The reason most didn't like Bruce as the OC is because he never met the standard set by Wiz... IMO he was a down grade out the gates.. The last three years the offense has been on the decline(points per game).. It doesn't matter how many yards you pile up if you stall at the 20.. A problem Bruce has had at every stop.. Whether I liked Bruce or not the fact remains that he is gone.. I stand by the move and support the new OC... Until he proves one way or the other I will support him.. As I did Bruce.. But after a few years of the same problems I grew tired of Bruce and I am all for the change. I don't think this is the place to judge a persons intellegence.. It's an opinion based forum, not everybody thinks like you do.. But that doesn't mean their any less intellegent then you.. Just means they don't agree with your opinion.. Right now the whole Bruce should still be the OC is moot, because he's not... I can't say your right or wrong, but also can't see you being right when Bruce dindn't get his contract renewed.. IMO he didn't get the job done to the standard the Steelers Fo expects out of the talent they put on the field.. I hope Todd Haley can get the most out of the offense and make you a believer...

X-Terminator
02-08-2012, 12:55 PM
*sighs* This is going to be a loooooooong offseason...

Steeldude
02-08-2012, 12:56 PM
I don't think this is the place to judge a persons intellegence.. It's an opinion based forum, not everybody thinks like you do.. But that doesn't mean their any less intellegent then you.. Just means they don't agree with your opinion..

I knew when reading that you were definitely talking to Suitanim.

O'Malley
02-08-2012, 01:10 PM
Yeah, I don't think anybody is judge and jury... I enjoy reading everybodies posts.. Just realize everybody has their own opinion.. Try not to step on toes..

fansince'76
02-08-2012, 01:11 PM
*sighs* This is going to be a loooooooong offseason...

Aren't they all? :chuckle:

ALLD
02-08-2012, 01:12 PM
1. Ben will benefit most.
2. The D will benefit next because the O should pick it up so the D does not have to bail them out all the time.

zulater
02-08-2012, 01:14 PM
Yeah, I don't think anybody is judge and jury... I enjoy reading everybodies posts.. Just realize everybody has their own opinion.. Try not to step on toes..

Wrong!!! Roger Goodell is judge and jury! :heh: Now if you were to amend it to no one should be .... :wink02:

O'Malley
02-08-2012, 01:19 PM
Wrong!!! Roger Goodell is judge and jury! :heh: Now if you were to amend it to no one should be .... :wink02:

I don't think anybody should be judge and jury....:drink:

X-Terminator
02-08-2012, 01:31 PM
I don't think anybody should be judge and jury....:drink:

No, I am the judge, jury, jailer and hangman. Just for clarity's sake, you see. :wink02:

O'Malley
02-08-2012, 01:32 PM
No, I am the judge, jury, jailer and hangman. Just for clarity's sake, you see. :wink02:

Now that is true... But your fair..

X-Terminator
02-08-2012, 01:48 PM
Now that is true... But your fair..

Well, I try to be anyway. Everyone gets to speak their minds, but you all know where the line is drawn. I'd rather not have to "hang" anyone any time soon. :wink02:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2012, 01:53 PM
Yeah, I don't think anybody is judge and jury... I enjoy reading everybodies posts.. Just realize everybody has their own opinion.. Try not to step on toes..

I'll save the mods having to do it.

"OK, lets not get personal.....we don't want things to get out of hand".

There, you have been warned. :hand:

steeldevil
02-08-2012, 02:00 PM
*sighs* This is going to be a loooooooong offseason...

Yep.

suitanim
02-08-2012, 03:55 PM
I still don't understand how attacking a stupid argument and calling it stupid equates to calling the arguer stupid.

I know the difference. I even pointed it out. Why can't others see it and toe that line?

Person A) "The World is flat"

Person B) "That's stupid, the World is round"

Person A) "Wah....I'm offended...he called me stupid! Waaaaahhahahahahahahahah".

Dino 6 Rings
02-08-2012, 04:23 PM
I think the fans on this board benefit the most.
1. The Arians fans can no engage in their myopic hate of the new hire, because nobody will ever match up to Bruce.
2. The Arians haters can now have a new OC to hate when things go wrong.
3. The myopic Arians haters can now defend Haley when things go wrong and say what a great hire he was when things go right.

Nobody loses on this board.

Wait...why do the Haters get 2 groupings and the Lovers only get one! That's not fair! its like you double accuse the haters!

btw...am I a myopic hater or just a hater?

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2012, 04:42 PM
Wait...why do the Haters get 2 groupings and the Lovers only get one! That's not fair! its like you double accuse the haters!

btw...am I a myopic hater or just a hater?Haters hate, so they can hate both coordinators. (Thats why they get 2 groups). Lovers cant love both, well.......legally.....I guess if they are in Utah they can. Oh, never mind.

As for your 2nd question, let me check wikipedia and get back to you. ;)

oneforthetoe
02-08-2012, 05:03 PM
Who Benefits the Most from the Todd Haley Hire?

UHM ... Todd Haley?

SteelGhost
02-08-2012, 05:46 PM
UHM ... Todd Haley?

..... and the whole Haley family, LOL.

zulater
02-08-2012, 05:52 PM
Steelers offense, and Steelers team!

Count Steeler
02-08-2012, 06:00 PM
The haters and the lovers. It just keeps the debate going, ad infinitum.

ALLD
02-08-2012, 06:27 PM
Haley only needs to ask himself one question before he opens his mouth or makes a decision:

"What would Chuck Noll do?"

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2012, 06:42 PM
Haley only needs to ask himself one question before he opens his mouth or makes a decision:

"What would Chuck Norris do?" Fixed it for ya. :lol:

SMR
02-08-2012, 08:28 PM
Fixed it for ya. :lol:

Perfect!

Can't wait to see Norris in Expendables II!!!

X-Terminator
02-08-2012, 09:33 PM
Haley only needs to ask himself one question before he opens his mouth or makes a decision:

"What would Chuck Noll do?"


"What would Chuck Norris do?"

What would Scooby do???

Dino 6 Rings
02-09-2012, 08:21 AM
The haters and the lovers. It just keeps the debate going, ad infinitum.

yeah but I'm lost now...am I such a myopic hater that I am supposed to hate Haley before he ever calls a single play, cause I blame all the failings of the team on the OC only, being so myopic? Or do I love Haley before he ever calls a single play because I'm such a myopic Arians hater that I'll ignore any thing Haley does from now on and blame all offensive problems on execution and say every play he calls is awesome and that his philosophy is awesome simply because I want to continue to hate the former OC that much?

So am I now a Haley Lover cause I was such a Myopic Arians Hater, or am I a Haley Hater cause I'm a Myopic Offensive Coordinator Hater at all times regardless of the person calling plays?

Can I still call Ben a bonehead when he makes bonehead decisions?

suitanim
02-09-2012, 08:43 AM
yeah but I'm lost now...am I such a myopic hater that I am supposed to hate Haley before he ever calls a single play, cause I blame all the failings of the team on the OC only, being so myopic? Or do I love Haley before he ever calls a single play because I'm such a myopic Arians hater that I'll ignore any thing Haley does from now on and blame all offensive problems on execution and say every play he calls is awesome and that his philosophy is awesome simply because I want to continue to hate the former OC that much?

So am I now a Haley Lover cause I was such a Myopic Arians Hater, or am I a Haley Hater cause I'm a Myopic Offensive Coordinator Hater at all times regardless of the person calling plays?

Can I still call Ben a bonehead when he makes bonehead decisions?
This is easy. Simply do what comes naturally, which is criticize sharply anything that doesn't work with the benefit of perfect 20/20 hindsight, and make sure that you act like you know a lot more about football than the OC. A few stand-by's:

1. OC's plays generally don't work
2. Plays called by Ben generally all work
3. We should have passed when we run and it doesn't work
4. We should have run when we passed and it didn't work
5. Interceptions, sacks, fumbles, missed blocks and dropped passes are generally the OC's fault
6. Any success is to be attributed to the players
7. Points scored trump all, even winning. It's better to lose and score a lot of points then to win and not score a lot of points
8. Balance is based on the formation we run, not the actual ratio of run/pass. As a corollary of that "logic", 40% is more than 60% if that supports your earlier position that you don't want to change. Therefore, we could pass the ball 80% of the time and still be a "run-first team".
9. The OC generally makes all the important decisions for the team that don't work. Others make the important decisions that do.
10. If Ben befriends the coordinator, it somehow means that his style of play, which hasn't changed since high school, has suddenly changed for the worse and needs corrected.

Dino 6 Rings
02-09-2012, 08:59 AM
This is easy. Simply do what comes naturally, which is criticize sharply anything that doesn't work with the benefit of perfect 20/20 hindsight, and make sure that you act like you know a lot more about football than the OC. A few stand-by's:

1. OC's plays generally don't work
2. Plays called by Ben generally all work
3. We should have passed when we run and it doesn't work
4. We should have run when we passed and it didn't work
5. Interceptions, sacks, fumbles, missed blocks and dropped passes are generally the OC's fault
6. Any success is to be attributed to the players
7. Points scored trump all, even winning. It's better to lose and score a lot of points then to win and not score a lot of points
8. Balance is based on the formation we run, not the actual ratio of run/pass. As a corollary of that "logic", 40% is more than 60% if that supports your earlier position that you don't want to change. Therefore, we could pass the ball 80% of the time and still be a "run-first team".
9. The OC generally makes all the important decisions for the team that don't work. Others make the important decisions that do.
10. If Ben befriends the coordinator, it somehow means that his style of play, which hasn't changed since high school, has suddenly changed for the worse and needs corrected.

Or should I act like I know more about hiring and firing coaches then the Front Office?

suitanim
02-09-2012, 09:37 AM
Or should I act like I know more about hiring and firing coaches then the Front Office?

Well, yes and no. You're allowed to criticize the front office when it supports YOUR position (but others are not allowed to support the FO if their position is other than yours), and you're of course allowed to support the FO when THAT supports your position, which in turn means that if others criticize that position, THEY are not allowed criticize the FO. When I supported the FO for retaining Arians, I was called a lemming. When I questioned the FO for the poor and improper way in which Arians was dismissed, I was scolded for questioning the FO's wisdom. I was wrong for supporting the FO AND wrong for criticizing it. Conveniently...

I guess the key is to try and make sure that whatever position I take is wrong. Even if it's right.

It's complicated.

The bottom line is that by October at the latest, most or all of the people who hated Arians will hate Haley. And I will probably take up his cause and start defending him. And, of course, no matter what facts or figures I bring to bear, or how prescient I can point out being, or what past quotes I correctly cite from the OC haters, I'll again be dismissed as a lemming or a fool or whatever.

Steeldude
02-09-2012, 01:31 PM
And I will probably take up his cause and start blindly defending him

Fixed it.

So let me see if I have the logic of the lover's straight. If a fan criticizes poor play, he is a hater? If a fan is not satisfied with below average to poor effort/results, he is a hater? If a fan does not blindly agree with everything done by the FO, he is a hater? If a fan perceives a backup to be better than a starter, he is a hater? If a fan doesn't want every single Steelers' player re-signed, he is a hater? If a fan does not agree with the opinion of the masses, he is a hater?