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View Full Version : Goodell great for NFL, even if Steelers and their fans disagree



fansince'76
02-07-2012, 04:50 PM
Tuesday, February 07, 2012
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

It was about 90 minutes after Super Bowl XLIII, a game that always will be remembered here because of the Steelers' fabulous comeback against the Arizona Cardinals. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell was at a private party, his tie off, his sleeves rolled up and a cold adult beverage in his hand. Earlier that evening, he had handed the Lombardi Trophy to Steelers owner Dan Rooney, the man who pushed hardest for him to become commissioner in August 2006. Goodell was feeling pretty good about himself and his league.

Imagine how Goodell felt Sunday night after Super Bowl XLVI at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis.

It was another terrific game, the New York Giants' 21-17 victory against the New England Patriots going down to the final play. Goodell, a noted perfectionist, wasn't pleased with the classless middle-finger salute in the halftime show by one of the featured singers, whose name is not worth mentioning. But everything else was good. No, everything else was great.

Everything about Goodell's $10 billion-a-year NFL is great, actually.

Read more: Goodell great for NFL, even if Steelers and their fans disagree (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12038/1208549-87-0.stm#ixzz1ljUkVUPL)

fansince'76
02-07-2012, 04:51 PM
I was debating on whether to put this in the comedy section, but decided to put it here. What a delusional hack Cook is. :doh:

Count Steeler
02-07-2012, 04:55 PM
Did Chidi29 hijack Cook? :chuckle:

fansince'76
02-07-2012, 05:06 PM
Many Goodell critics are offended when he talks about integrity. They were happy the Giants beat the Patriots Sunday night because of "Spygate." In 2007, Goodell fined Patriots coach Bill Belichick $500,000 and the team $250,000 and made it forfeit a No. 1 draft choice after the Patriots were caught taping hand signals of opposing coaches. Goodell then burned the evidence.

I agree with Goodell, who said the taping had "a limited effect -- if any -- on the outcome of any game." I also agreed with him when he said he didn't "think it taints [the Patriots'] accomplishments."

Bet you believed Nixon too, right, Ron? :rolleyes:

SMR
02-07-2012, 05:06 PM
Did Chidi29 hijack Cook? :chuckle:

ROFL!

salamander
02-07-2012, 05:08 PM
:puke:


That is all.

st33lersguy
02-07-2012, 05:52 PM
(Slurp)(Slurp)(Slurp)
It is this frame of mind that will allow Goofdell and his cronies to stay as long as he likes and ruin the NFL until it is arena football on a 100 yard field

fansince'76
02-07-2012, 05:53 PM
(Slurp)(Slurp)(Slurp)
It is this frame of mind that will allow Goofdell and his cronies to stay as long as he likes and ruin the NFL until it is arena football on a 100 yard field

It already is...

Butch
02-07-2012, 06:04 PM
Goodell then burned the evidence. I agree with Goodell, who said the taping had "a limited effect -- if any -- on the outcome of any game." I also agreed with him when he said he didn't "think it taints [the Patriots'] accomplishments."


How can you seriously say you agree when you haven't seen so much as a shred of the video??? Cook's statements show how much of a putz he is.

GodfatherofSoul
02-07-2012, 06:32 PM
Don't forget that members of the main stream press have to knob polish because they don't want to lose access to Mein Fuhrer. It's funny watching commentators on ESPN blankly staring trying to stop themselves from saying what they think and craft the appropriate party line. I've watched a few interviews where these guys turn 180 degrees when pressed to defend the 4th Reich of pussified football.

SteelGhost
02-07-2012, 06:35 PM
:ranger:

fansince'76
02-07-2012, 06:38 PM
Don't forget that members of the main stream press have to knob polish because they don't want to lose access to Mein Fuhrer. It's funny watching commentators on ESPN blankly staring trying to stop themselves from saying what they think and craft the appropriate party line. I've watched a few interviews where these guys turn 180 degrees when pressed to defend the 4th Reich of pussified football.

As a local Pittsburgh writer, I think Cook would be better served in not throwing members of the local team under the bus while doing so. If I'm Tomlin or the Rooneys or any of the players, I'm telling Cook to get bent the next time he wants an interview or a "scoop" after reading what basically amounted to a hatchet job on Harrison.


Harrison also has feuded with Goodell over the concussion issue. He was fined $100,000 by the NFL in the '10 season for illegal hits and suspended for a game in '11 for his cheap shot on Cleveland Browns quarterback Colt McCoy. Harrison is willing to risk long-term brain damage to make a lucrative living, saying famously he gladly will "go through hell so my kids don't have to." Not all players feel that way, though.They know former players are coming forward with serious health issues because of concussions.

Uh, sorry, Ron, but no. I defy you to find one current NFL player who LIKES what Goodell is doing and supports him as a commissioner. Sure, he sits there and talks and talks and talks about "player safety," and in the next breath starts talking about 18-game seasons and expanding Thursday night games to almost every week of the season. He's a hypocrite of the highest order. Plenty of players around the league have said as much as well, but Harrison gets routinely singled out because he's one of the few that have the balls to own their comments publicly, as opposed to "a player from one NFC East team said 'Goodell is a clown'."

ALLD
02-07-2012, 06:41 PM
Looks like somebody was partying with Ricky Williams and then wrote an article.

BlastFurnace
02-07-2012, 07:41 PM
Goodell is an Attorney who acts on behalf of the owners for the best financial interest of the league. No doubt that the NFL knew that lawsuits were coming in mass for head injuries, so Goodell works to create measures to mitigate that in the future. He helped negotiate a huge television contract in a terrible economy. No wonder the new Guard of owners love the guy.

I used to despise Goodell, but I don't any longer. I believe that he's just being an Attorney doing his job.

st33lersguy
02-07-2012, 08:01 PM
Uh, sorry, Ron, but no. I defy you to find one current NFL defensive player who LIKES what Goodell is doing and supports him as a commissioner. Sure, he sits there and talks and talks and talks about "player safety," and in the next breath starts talking about 18-game seasons and expanding Thursday night games to almost every week of the season. He's a hypocrite of the highest order. Plenty of players around the league have said as much as well, but Harrison gets routinely singled out because he's one of the few that have the balls to own their comments publicly, as opposed to "a player from one NFC East team said 'Goodell is a clown'."

Fixed it. I am sure Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning Brothers all love Goofdell for making their jobs easier

Craic
02-07-2012, 08:25 PM
Goodell is an Attorney who acts on behalf of the owners for the best financial interest of the league. No doubt that the NFL knew that lawsuits were coming in mass for head injuries, so Goodell works to create measures to mitigate that in the future. He helped negotiate a huge television contract in a terrible economy. No wonder the new Guard of owners love the guy.

I used to despise Goodell, but I don't any longer. I believe that he's just being an Attorney doing his job.

Exactly. He is doing exactly what he was hired to do. As I have been saying all along, if the people on this forum want to get mad at someone, get mad at the Owners. They are the ones that hired him, they are the ones that tell him what to do, and they are the ones that negate every decision he makes. They have yet to do it which means that in the end, the owners, including the Rooney family, are the ones to blame for the current state of the NFL if a person doesn't like it.

But as I have said before, Goodell will probably end up in his office for a long time. He has successfully navigated the league through a contentious work stoppage without any games being lost, he is currently in the process of trying to spit shine the image of the NFL (so that it's more acceptable for those who don't really care about football), and he's also - as BF said, making attempts to mitigate lawsuits, all the while (again as BF has said) negotiating a huge television contract in a down economy.

He will be at the helm for years to come - and the NFL will be around for years to come.

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 08:38 PM
Did Chidi29 hijack Cook? :chuckle:

That was actualy my submission for my next editoral. Cook owes me money. :chuckle:

X-Terminator
02-07-2012, 08:41 PM
Hey Cook - why don't you just caress his balls some more?

Hard to believe with as much garbage as that jackass has done, there are STILL dupes out there who support him. Give me a break, Cook.

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 08:53 PM
Hey Cook - why don't you just caress his balls some more?

Hard to believe with as much garbage as that jackass has done, there are STILL dupes out there who support him. Give me a break, Cook.

It's funny that despite as much support as there is for Goodell nation-wide, Steelers' fans think that they're still right that he is awful. How is everyone else missing this?

Shoes
02-07-2012, 09:01 PM
It's funny that despite as much support as there is for Goodell nation-wide, Steelers' fans think that they're still right that he is awful. How is everyone else missing this?

There are many nut cases in history that had "nation-wide support"......this is just one of them. :chuckle:

steelreserve
02-07-2012, 09:07 PM
Goodell is an Attorney who acts on behalf of the owners for the best financial interest of the league. No doubt that the NFL knew that lawsuits were coming in mass for head injuries, so Goodell works to create measures to mitigate that in the future. He helped negotiate a huge television contract in a terrible economy. No wonder the new Guard of owners love the guy.

I used to despise Goodell, but I don't any longer. I believe that he's just being an Attorney doing his job.

I think that's exactly right, but I still despise him. It's football, not lawyerball. Even though some of this was probably inevitable due to the overall stupidity of our legal system and people's sudden obsession with assigning blame as if it was more important than actually fixing the problem, whether we're talking about football or anything else.

X-Terminator
02-07-2012, 09:18 PM
It's funny that despite as much support as there is for Goodell nation-wide, Steelers' fans think that they're still right that he is awful. How is everyone else missing this?

Sorry Chidi, but I really don't care. I don't like him, I have never liked him and I will never like him. And the only ones who "support" him are media stooges and the owners who only care about the bottom line. He gets booed everywhere he goes. Don't you think that would tell you something about how much "support" he gets?

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 09:18 PM
Sorry Chidi, but I really don't care. I don't like him, I have never liked him and I will never like him. The end.

And I'm called the stubborn one in the Goodell discussion?

X-Terminator
02-07-2012, 09:23 PM
And I'm called the stubborn one in the Goodell discussion?

Yeah, you are. Because you seem to think flowers come out of his bunghole, that everything is sunshine and roses, and he never does anything wrong. Meanwhile, the guy continues to act like he cares about what the fans think when he really doesn't and continues to support the complete pussification of the game. The only thing that doesn't put him in the category of Bud Selig is that he's actually semi-intelligent. Competency, though, is a whole different ball game.

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 09:24 PM
Yeah, you are. Because you seem to think flowers come out of his bunghole, that everything is sunshine and roses, and he never does anything wrong. Meanwhile, the guy continues to act like he cares about what the fans think when he really doesn't and continues to support the complete pussification of the game. The only thing that doesn't put him in the category of Bud Selig is that he's actually semi-intelligent. Competency, though, is a whole different ball game.

And you guys think he's Hitler, that he never does anything right.

What's the difference?

X-Terminator
02-07-2012, 09:28 PM
And you guys think he's Hitler, that he never does anything right.

What's the difference?

I give him credit for not allowing the lockout to interrupt the season, but it changes nothing about how I feel about him or the job he's done overall.

Now you find something to criticize him for.

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 09:29 PM
I give him credit for not allowing the lockout to interrupt the season, but it changes nothing about how I feel about him or the job he's done overall.

Now you find something to criticize him for.

I think clarity is still an ongoing issue for Goodell in terms of the rules. That isn't always easy but priority number one and has room for improvement.

I've said that time and time before.

X-Terminator
02-07-2012, 09:36 PM
I think clarity is still an ongoing issue for Goodell in terms of the rules. That isn't always easy but priority number one and has room for improvement.

I've said that time and time before.

Room for improvement? I'd say he has a Challenger Deep-sized abyss for improvement when it comes to the rules. That is the main thing that frustrates me to no end about him, because the way the rules are, you may as well tell the defense to count to 10 before rushing the passer or hitting a receiver. The guy wants to turn every game into the Pro Bowl. Let's see how well the league does if that happens.

If you've been consistent on that viewpoint, then my apologies.

JayC
02-07-2012, 09:39 PM
cheating to help win 3 superbowls over at least 6 years = $500,000
one split second hit to the head = $75,000

does not equate.

fuck goodell for life. :upyours:

BlastFurnace
02-07-2012, 09:43 PM
Another way that he is acting by direction of the owners is football overseas. Is it just an accident that the new owner of the Jaguars...who the other owners had to approve...wants to turn his team into a global team...absolutely not. The owners want more revenue streams and with the expanding popularity of the NFL...the overseas money is easy pickings.

The owners know that they have Americans and their money in the bag. The owners want Goodell to go get the overseas money now.

Fans may boo him, but Goodell is just being the front guy for the owners wishes...and he's laughing all the way to the bank.

He's an Attorney doing his job representing his client.

Fans are hating and blaming the wrong guy.

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 09:45 PM
cheating to help win 3 superbowls over at least 6 years = $500,000
one split second hit to the head = $75,000

does not equate.

fuck goodell for life. :upyours:

The 500K fine was the maximum fined allowed.

Godfather
02-07-2012, 10:07 PM
Don't forget that members of the main stream press have to knob polish because they don't want to lose access to Mein Fuhrer. It's funny watching commentators on ESPN blankly staring trying to stop themselves from saying what they think and craft the appropriate party line. I've watched a few interviews where these guys turn 180 degrees when pressed to defend the 4th Reich of pussified football.

Speaking of Mein Fuhrer, your post reminded me to check for the newest Downfall parodies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbC8kBZXXqU

Shoes
02-07-2012, 10:11 PM
Ron Cook.......calling someone classless!!! :toofunny:

Shoes
02-07-2012, 10:29 PM
Cook writes... "Clearly, concussions are the greatest challenge facing Goodell. There might not be a solution". The real challenge for fork tongue Goodell is how to slide 18 games in while talking about player safety. He won't give it up.... even tho more than 200 players are suing the NFL for allegedly misleading them about the long-term dangers of concussions.

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 10:37 PM
Room for improvement? I'd say he has a Challenger Deep-sized abyss for improvement when it comes to the rules. That is the main thing that frustrates me to no end about him, because the way the rules are, you may as well tell the defense to count to 10 before rushing the passer or hitting a receiver. The guy wants to turn every game into the Pro Bowl. Let's see how well the league does if that happens.

If you've been consistent on that viewpoint, then my apologies.

And yes, it frustrates me too. It's not an easy thing to do and may never be perfectly consistent. But yes, much room for improvement.

Chidi29
02-07-2012, 10:38 PM
Cook writes... "Clearly, concussions are the greatest challenge facing Goodell. There might not be a solution". The real challenge for fork tongue Goodell is how to slide 18 games in while talking about player safety. He won't give it up.... even tho more than 200 players are suing the NFL for allegedly misleading them about the long-term dangers of concussions.





Goodell has left it up to the players' union to decide whether or not we have an 18 game season. He's been very fair about the process.

Shoes
02-07-2012, 10:42 PM
Goodell has left it up to the players' union to decide whether or not we have an 18 game season. He's been very fair about the process.

If you really believe he has washed his hands in this matter ................I have bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Craic
02-08-2012, 12:46 AM
he continues to support the complete pussification of the game.
(Edited X-terms post to what I wanted to address, but since i cut a few words out of the middle of this sentence, I wanted to put this notice in).

X-term: Do you believe that hits we have seen consistently over the last five years are only as dangerous as the ones in Bradshaw's era? I'm not talking about the two or three big hits that everyone remembers back then, or now. I'm talking about the weekend to weekend hits. I have posted before the differences in weight and average speed of athletes from that era to this era. The mathematical outcome of that is a much bigger force of impact. Add to that, the fact that nobody knows how to form-tackle anymore. They are all going for the big hits now, which adds even more force to the hits.

I don't understand how reducing the physical impact back to levels still harder than the seventies is a pussyfication of the league. To me that is definitely a safety issue. Now, a completely different topic, is why only certain positions get that protection - that is driven completely by money, IMO. But I think that the physics of the game at this stage of its evolution and the adaptation of human development/Sports development means a change has to happen.

These changes have happened a number of times in the history of the game as the game as evolved.

BlacknGoldBabe
02-08-2012, 03:16 AM
People always hate the front man when they totally disagree with him, Blast. I'm no fan of the guy either.

Frankly, I can't think of a way to oust his stupid ass other than a total fan boycott of the game. The owners might get the point then.

suitanim
02-08-2012, 05:27 AM
Jack Tatum would be executed publicly by Goodell were he to play today. THAT was football!

Bronko Nagurski rolls over in his grave every Sunday Goodell is at the helm.

Craic
02-08-2012, 05:47 AM
Jack Tatum would be executed publicly by Goodell were he to play today. THAT was football!

Bronko Nagurski rolls over in his grave every Sunday Goodell is at the helm.

Funny you bring up Tatum. If THAT was football, then the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers didn't know what football was. Chuck Knoll labeled him a criminal element specifically for that type of play. So it seems that even back then, there was an uproar about hitting players in the head.

I guess what Goodell is doing isn't so new after all.

zulater
02-08-2012, 05:56 AM
Funny you bring up Tatum. If THAT was football, then the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers didn't know what football was. Chuck Knoll labeled him a criminal element specifically for that type of play. So it seems that even back then, there was an uproar about hitting players in the head.

I guess what Goodell is doing isn't so new after all.

I thought it was George Atkinson he labeled as a "criminal element"? And he was right. what Atkinson did often wasn't anything to do with the play itself, it was literally assault. Seriously the forearm clubbing he gave to Swann's head was away from the play on the field. The guy was a thug. Still is in fact.

X-Terminator
02-08-2012, 07:27 AM
(Edited X-terms post to what I wanted to address, but since i cut a few words out of the middle of this sentence, I wanted to put this notice in).

X-term: Do you believe that hits we have seen consistently over the last five years are only as dangerous as the ones in Bradshaw's era? I'm not talking about the two or three big hits that everyone remembers back then, or now. I'm talking about the weekend to weekend hits. I have posted before the differences in weight and average speed of athletes from that era to this era. The mathematical outcome of that is a much bigger force of impact. Add to that, the fact that nobody knows how to form-tackle anymore. They are all going for the big hits now, which adds even more force to the hits.

I don't understand how reducing the physical impact back to levels still harder than the seventies is a pussyfication of the league. To me that is definitely a safety issue. Now, a completely different topic, is why only certain positions get that protection - that is driven completely by money, IMO. But I think that the physics of the game at this stage of its evolution and the adaptation of human development/Sports development means a change has to happen.

These changes have happened a number of times in the history of the game as the game as evolved.

Ask LaMarr Woodley if "form tackles" are what the league wants. Because he did that legally on Phyllis Rivers and received a penalty and a fine for his trouble. Ask Ryan Clark, who executed a textbook hit on a receiver (don't remember who it was), led with his shoulder, hit the guy mostly in the chest...but because he happened to also hit the guy's chin, he received a fine. Even sports writers and talking heads thought that was a clean hit, but he got fined anyway. And therein lies the problem. What is a defensive player supposed to do if he can be fined even if he follows the rules? That's what I mean by the pussification of the sport, because defenses are being handcuffed and playing tough, physical football is frowned upon. Gotta have more 59-41 scores, after all. Thanks, Roger...you dope.

zulater
02-08-2012, 07:36 AM
From a previous Ron Cook column...


"The game has already gone to where we don't want it to go," Farrior said. "The sad thing is it's not going to change."

Farrior is one of the more intelligent players in the NFL. When he speaks, I listen because I know he thinks everything through. If a player of his stature -- a decorated 14-year veteran in the league -- is disgusted by the state of the game, commissioner Roger Goodell should be alarmed.

"You know what it's come to? They're penalizing us for hitting too hard," Farrior said. "It's sad."

I didn't want to believe it until I watched the Steelers-Oakland Raiders game Sunday. There were three personal-foul penalties against the Steelers' LaMarr Woodley, Ryan Clark and James Harrison that almost defied belief. Each was a legitimate football play. Each resulted in a 15-yard penalty.

Ridiculous.









I talked to Steelers Hall of Fame linebacker Jack Ham about all of this the other day. He said something that really stuck with me.

"It should come down to common sense. The officials should know what's a dirty hit and what's not."

That's the real problem with the NFL today.

Too many flags.

Not enough common sense.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10327/1105390-87.stm#ixzz1lnTMws1q

Me thinks he's talking out both sides of his mouth.

LLT
02-08-2012, 08:02 AM
(LLT rolls up his sleeves and prepares to rant)


Cook...like so many other writers... are misplaced as SPORTS journalists. He would be better served writing op-ed articles instead of attempting to cover football. Simply put...he offers no other evidence that Goodell is "good for the game"...other than the fact that Goodell has upped the profit.

Stop right there.

Those of us who love football....who have loved football long before the exhuberant television deals...and the assanine flex scheduling....and the over the top commercialization....Dont see what Goodell is doing to this game as being "better".

Im a purist. I love football for football. Its SUPPOSED to be about the play on the field....modern gladiators who battle LIKE MEN...leaving their blood...sweat...and tears on the turf. Its supposed to be about a Sunday afternoon at the stadium with your son or daughter...talking about their favorite player and watching them get excited when he jogs unto the field. Its supposed to be about sitting at home with a few of your best friends, cheering on the team that you all grew up with, bonding through a shared love of a great game.

Goodell wants none of that. He doesnt love the game the way I do. To him its a product that needs to be wrapped in bright colors and corporate logos. Its a sack of potatoes that he can charge more for, after removing half of the spuds, and throwing a "new and improved" sticker on it.

Cook has forgotten (or never realized) that the NFL is FIRST AND FOREMOST about the fans. Without us there is no profit. Without us the league would fold in on itself. But out of the triad of pillars that prop up the NFL ...Owners, Players, Fans....Goodell places the NFL fanbase a distant third in priority.

Cook says "Everything about Goodells $10 billion a year NFL is great"

Sure....other than players that loathe him and dont trust him...and a fanbase that is disenfranchised, knowing they are mere dollar signs to a commisioner that is little more than a politician/used car salesman.

fansince'76
02-08-2012, 08:10 AM
I talked to Steelers Hall of Fame linebacker Jack Ham about all of this the other day. He said something that really stuck with me.

"It should come down to common sense. The officials should know what's a dirty hit and what's not."

That's the real problem with the NFL today.

Too many flags.

Not enough common sense.

I would LOVE to hear Lambert's thoughts on the subject...

LLT
02-08-2012, 08:15 AM
Goodell has left it up to the players' union to decide whether or not we have an 18 game season. He's been very fair about the process.

Actually...no.

It was discussed on this board in detail as it was being proposed.

Goodell was pushing for the 18 game season and using the montra "this is what the fans want" as his springboard. An associated press poll showed that the Goodell was a LIAR....the support was not there...and Goodell then swept it under the rug. Be prepared for him to push for it again in the future...totally repackaged and with a new reasoning.

suitanim
02-08-2012, 08:56 AM
Football is, and should be, a brutal game. If it is not to be a brutal game, then take the pads and helmet off and play it like Rugby. If the players don't like the brutality, the answer is simple: Don't play football.

As far as labeling Tatum a criminal and thug, that's what opposing teams always do...the Browns fans still call Lambert a thug. Opposing teams called Ronnie Lott a thug. Opposing teams call Harrison a thug. Opposing fans hate Suh. Persoannally, I love what he's doing.

If he ain't playing for your team, you hate him and call him names, but you love him and defend him when he's wearing your jersey. That's also called "hypocrisy"...

BigNastyDefense
02-08-2012, 09:41 AM
When it comes to head shots, I have no problem with penalizing the blatant cheap head shots. The ones like Dunta Robinson put on the Eagle's Jeremy Maclin in a prime time football game this past season. I have no problem with large fines and/or suspensions for hits like those. It was a blatant attempt to decapitate an offensive player.

However, the head shots that happen because a receiver drops his head a split second before the hit; those shouldn't be flagged, fined, or suspend-able hits. The defender can't predict what the offensive player is going to do. Those hits are the fault of the offensive player, brought on themselves because they think dropping their head will protect them for some reason. And as long as these are personal fouls, I expect to see a strategy where some players do it on purpose to get the foul, especially if they think they will not hang onto the ball.

Also, the over protection of some quarterbacks (Brady, Brees, P. Manning, Rogers) really pisses me off. I know, they want to protect quarterbacks. They are the big money players, they take up the largest part of a team's salary cap. But then protect them equally. Just because Roethlisberger isn't a pussy like Bradydoesn't mean he doesn't deserve the same calls. But for some reason, and I firmly believe Goodell has a personal problem with him. Be it his style of play, his past personal indiscretions, his fedora, the fact that he is the Steelers' QB.....whatever reason it is.

Godfather
02-08-2012, 09:49 AM
Go back to leather helmets. That way players will keep their heads up out of self-preservation.

Or maybe we should drop the pads and be more like rugby. They have fewer concussions.

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 10:14 AM
Actually...no.

It was discussed on this board in detail as it was being proposed.

Goodell was pushing for the 18 game season and using the montra "this is what the fans want" as his springboard. An associated press poll showed that the Goodell was a LIAR....the support was not there...and Goodell then swept it under the rug. Be prepared for him to push for it again in the future...totally repackaged and with a new reasoning.

Said by Jeff Pash:

"We told the union that for 2011 and 2012, we would play within the existing 16-game regular season format, and we committed to them, notwithstanding the rights we have in the current agreement, we would not change to 18 games without their consent."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Roger-Goodell-We-worked-hard-we-didnt-reach-an-agreement.html

This despite the fact the league did not need their consent under the old CBA. Not sure what the terms are under the new one.

Goodell pointed out that the league already has the right to impose an 18-game schedule -- and keep four preseason games for each team -- under the current labor agreement with the players

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5497448

-----------

I never said that he did not want an 18 game schedule. He wants it, that's not debatable and I'm confused as to why you brought it up. But he will put it into the hands of the union. Only if they want it will we see it.

Edman
02-08-2012, 10:26 AM
Talks about Player Safety, then talks about Trips to London, Shortened Weeks (More Thursday Nights as if they were ever worth watching), and 18 game seasons. Never thinking that this puts even more strain on the players than whatever they do on the field.

I'd be more respectful of "Player Safety" if it were called consistently and fairly and not arbitrary. But since Ben can get destroyed every week with no flags while Punkass Brady whines and gets flags. As long as things keep going the way they are, talks of "Player Safety" will hold no water.

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 10:32 AM
Talks about Player Safety, then talks about Trips to London, Shortened Weeks (More Thursday Nights as if they were ever worth watching), and 18 game seasons. Never thinking that this puts even more strain on the players than whatever they do on the field.

I'd be more respectful of "Player Safety" if it were called consistently and fairly and not arbitrary. But since Ben can get destroyed every week with no flags while Punkass Brady whines and gets flags. As long as things keep going the way they are, talks of "Player Safety" will hold no water.

Player safety has to mainly do with eliminating the illegal, bone-crushing hits in the game. That really doesn't have anything to do with where you play but how you play.

What Goodell is doing in player safety is awesome. It's something that won't be appreciated until these players are in their 60s and can still remember their name, but the extensiveness of the safety research committee is staggering.

fansince'76
02-08-2012, 10:38 AM
What Goodell is doing in player safety is awesome. It's something that won't be appreciated until these players are in their 60s and can still remember their name, but the extensiveness of the safety research committee is staggering.

Don't see how. Aren't too many ex-QBs and ex-WRs walking around "punch drunk," and those are overwhelmingly the two positions targeted by Goodell's "player safety" mandates. Yet, RBs can still get clobbered in the head all day long. And don't even get me started on the linemen (both offensive and defensive).

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 10:40 AM
Don't see how. Aren't too many ex-QBs and ex-WRs walking around "punch drunk," and those are overwhelmingly the two positions targeted by Goodell's "player safety" mandates...

Because those are the ones most likely too suffer those huge hits.

fansince'76
02-08-2012, 10:44 AM
Because those are the ones most likely too suffer those huge hits.

Again, how many old-time QBs and WRs are walking around with brain damage? And then compare that to how many old-time players who played at other positions who are walking around drooling all over themselves.

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 10:46 AM
Again, how many old-time QBs and WRs are walking around with brain damage? And then compare that to how many old-time players who played at other positions who are walking around drooling all over themselves.

I don't think either of us have the exact numbers. I know Jim McMahon and John Mackey are examples of guys at skill positions but those are of course just anedoctes.

Lineman are tougher to prevent the concussions, too. That's why Goodell has this great team around him to try and get as much input, help. and ultimately safety as possible. I still don't think that as a whole, fans forget how serious concussions/brain damage are. Which is why they can't relate to Goodell about what he's doing.

steelpride12
02-08-2012, 10:49 AM
I truly believe that it is only the Steelers and their fans who despise him while the rest of the league has some form of love for him.

fansince'76
02-08-2012, 10:55 AM
I truly believe that it is only the Steelers and their fans who despise him while the rest of the league has some form of love for him.

I guess only Steelers fans attend the NFL Draft then, because all he gets are boos there...

LLT
02-08-2012, 11:05 AM
Because those are the ones most likely too suffer those huge hits.

The studies have shown that hte majority of concussions are not from head to head hits...but rather from head to ground contact. The problem always has been about the helmet...not the hitting.

LLT
02-08-2012, 11:07 AM
I truly believe that it is only the Steelers and their fans who despise him while the rest of the league has some form of love for him.


I live in Bear/Colt country....and both fanbases hate Goodell with a passion.

steelreserve
02-08-2012, 12:00 PM
Because those are the ones most likely too suffer those huge hits.

That's exactly the kind of thing that proves what a piss-poor job Goodell is doing. WRs and QBs take a "huge hit" a couple of times a season, if that. That doesn't give you brain damage. Linemen and RBs bash heads 30 or 40 times a game. Those are the ones with mental problems later. You figure it out.

All this goes to show is that Goodell is behaving like a snake. Bending over backwards to "address" the splashy SportsCenter hits - at a huge cost to the game - because they're what's most visible in the media and therefore what the know-nothings all point to first. While doing nothing at all to actually improve player safety, which specifically would be one thing only: a well-funded program to come up with a safer helmet for the trench positions. This entire, HUGELY DESTRUCTIVE 3-year campaign for "player safety" has been nothing but a campaign to look good by using smoke and mirrors to distract the public from the real problem.

And you bought it. That's the real difficult truth you have to face.

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 02:28 PM
The studies have shown that hte majority of concussions are not from head to head hits...but rather from head to ground contact. The problem always has been about the helmet...not the hitting.

I trust that Goodell's massive team of doctors and six subcommittees are doing what they can to prevent head injuries to the best of their abilites.

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 02:29 PM
I live in Bear/Colt country....and both fanbases hate Goodell with a passion.

According to one picture posted on SU recently, 59% of fans approve of the job Goodell is doing.

GBMelBlount
02-08-2012, 02:34 PM
Chidi

According to one picture posted on SU recently, 59% of fans approve of the job Goodell is doing.


Yep, Goodell is the best thing to come along since the invention of rectal exams.

fansince'76
02-08-2012, 02:38 PM
Yep, Goodell is the best thing to come along since the invention of rectal exams.

Agreed! How the league survived for 86 seasons without him as a commissioner, I'll never know!

XxKnightxX
02-08-2012, 02:59 PM
Tuesday, February 07, 2012
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

It was about 90 minutes after Super Bowl XLIII, a game that always will be remembered here because of the Steelers' fabulous comeback against the Arizona Cardinals. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell was at a private party, his tie off, his sleeves rolled up and a cold adult beverage in his hand. Earlier that evening, he had handed the Lombardi Trophy to Steelers owner Dan Rooney, the man who pushed hardest for him to become commissioner in August 2006. Goodell was feeling pretty good about himself and his league.

Imagine how Goodell felt Sunday night after Super Bowl XLVI at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis.

It was another terrific game, the New York Giants' 21-17 victory against the New England Patriots going down to the final play. Goodell, a noted perfectionist, wasn't pleased with the classless middle-finger salute in the halftime show by one of the featured singers, whose name is not worth mentioning. But everything else was good. No, everything else was great.

Everything about Goodell's $10 billion-a-year NFL is great, actually.

Read more: Goodell great for NFL, even if Steelers and their fans disagree (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12038/1208549-87-0.stm#ixzz1ljUkVUPL)


http://lazyoptimist.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/yao-ming-meme.jpg

What a load of Horse Shit.

Craic
02-08-2012, 03:06 PM
Agreed! How the league survived for 86 seasons without him as a commissioner, I'll never know!

I know you posted this in saracasm, but I do want to respond to it honestly, because I think there's an important point to be made from here.

The league survived, by adaptation. There have been numerous rule changes that have removed plays and methods from the game that are more likely to cause injury or death. Basically, the league survived because it's leadership has done the same kinds of things Good-deal is doing now. The problem is that this is the first major change of the game in this sense that we've seen in a couple decades, so we don't have the historical perspective. But Gooddeal is in line with the historical trajectory of the league when it comes to making rules for safety.

With that said, X-term has a good point, and one that I agree with. The tackles that are called a penalty when they are great tackles, are really frustrating and it needs to be dealt with. However, that doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 03:09 PM
Yep, Goodell is the best thing to come along since the invention of rectal exams.

Sure, you guys keep thinking you're the only ones who have him all figured out...

fansince'76
02-08-2012, 03:46 PM
Sure, you guys keep thinking you're the only ones who have him all figured out...

American Idol and Jersey Shore draw 20+ million viewers a week as well. Don't watch them either...

Count Steeler
02-08-2012, 03:55 PM
Yep, Goodell is the best thing to come along since the invention of rectal exams.

Now you're getting Marsha excited.

tube517
02-08-2012, 08:28 PM
Yep, Goodell is the best thing to come along since the invention of rectal exams.

That is an insult to rectal exams.

Butch
02-08-2012, 08:46 PM
To those who are pro "Go To Hell" Godel how can you support his system for fining players? How come James Harrison's first fine was so much more than any other player who was fined that 1st week? There is no rhyme or reason to what extent a player is fined for. Not just that but why fine a player and sell pictures of the hits (yes more than once)?

I can already hear the pro "Go To Hell" Godel crowd saying there is a committee but if there is a problem with the committee why can't the Great "Go To Hell" Godel do anything to correct it???

SMR
02-08-2012, 08:51 PM
Because those are the ones most likely too suffer those huge hits.

Wow, you serious?? QBs and WRs are more likely to suffer the hits as opposed to the RBs?? Player safety my foot!

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Wow, you serious?? QBs and WRs are more likely to suffer the hits as opposed to the RBs?? Player safety my foot!

As defenseless players, yes.

And come on, if they put the same rules for RBs as they do QBs and WRs you guys would be livid and kill him for that. Goodell is screwed no matter what he does...you have to admit that.

SMR
02-08-2012, 08:56 PM
As defenseless players, yes.

And come on, if they put the same rules for RBs as they do QBs and WRs you guys would be livid and kill him for that. Goodell is screwed no matter what he does...you have to admit that.

Not true. Don't you dare put words in my mouth! The safety rules should apply to RBs as well. If Goodell wanted to be honest and fair to all the players he would apply the rule to RBs as well, and I would be happy with that. Consistency is what the fraud lacks and you KNOW it! RBs are defenseless players at times too.

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 09:25 PM
Not true. Don't you dare put words in my mouth! The safety rules should apply to RBs as well. If Goodell wanted to be honest and fair to all the players he would apply the rule to RBs as well, and I would be happy with that. Consistency is what the fraud lacks and you KNOW it! RBs are defenseless players at times too.

I said "you guys" not just "you". It wasn't directed solely at you, SMR.

But yes, that is what would happen. Look at how many people talk about the "wussification" of the league. That point would be furthered if Goodell were to implement something like that. And it would never be consistent enough for you guys (you guys, for emphasis) anyway.

GBMelBlount
02-08-2012, 09:49 PM
Sure, you guys keep thinking you're the only ones who have him all figured out...

Hey, I am just having fun.

Sorry if I made your spectacles all foggy....

GBMelBlount
02-08-2012, 10:09 PM
The studies have shown that hte majority of concussions are not from head to head hits...but rather from head to ground contact. The problem always has been about the helmet...not the hitting.

Are they innovating helmet designs?

If not, this leads me to belive that Goodell is doing little more than legal posturing and does not truly care about the players as individuals.

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 10:13 PM
Are they innovating helmet designs?

If not, this tells me that Goodell is doing is nothing more than legal posturing and does not truly care about the players but the league.

Doctors have come out and said they are not in favor of an offical NFL helmet.

GBMelBlount
02-08-2012, 10:20 PM
Doctors have come out and said they are not in favor of an offical NFL helmet.

So....are they in favor of an unofficial NFL helmet?

I guess my question is are they seeking a helmet solution as aggressively as they are posturing for legal reasons?

Chidi29
02-08-2012, 10:30 PM
So....are they in favor of an unofficial NFL helmet?

I guess my question is are they seeking a helmet solution as aggressively as they are posturing for legal reasons?

There have been a lot of money invested into helmet research. I'm not positive why the doctors said they don't want an offical helmet.

LLT
02-09-2012, 10:37 AM
Virginia Tech conducted a test in which they concluded that a large percentage of the players in the NFL are using a helmet that is ranked as the second worst on the market. The Riddell VSR4 recieved terrible reviews yet Goodell and his "safety police" dont really care about players...they care about public perception. Making the common fan believe that they are safety minded is much more important than actually caring. High profile rule changes will accomplish their goal of expanding the season long before a simple helmet change that most fans wont notice.


http://www.sbes.vt.edu/img/nid_ratings.jpg


Virginia Tech helmet research crucial
ESPN
By Gregg Easterbrook
July 19, 2011

For years, football players, coaches and the parents of young players have been in the dark about which of the many helmets on the market may reduce the risk of concussions. The NFL does not mandate helmet types, while many NFL teams refuse even to reveal which helmets their players wear. The National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment, which certifies sports equipment, has been AWOL on the issue of helmets and concussions. There's been no place for the player seeking helmet safety information to turn.

Now all that has changed. Researchers at Virginia Tech have produced the first brand-by-brand, model-by-model ranking for the likely concussion resistance of helmets. A star-rating system modeled on crash safety rankings for automobiles, the rankings clearly identify the best and worst helmets. Virginia Tech researchers give high marks to these helmets: the Riddell Speed, Riddell Revolution, Riddell Revolution IQ; the Schutt Ion 4D and Schutt DNA; and the Xenith X1. The Virginia Tech researchers give medium grades to the Schutt Air XP and Schutt Air Advantage. The Virginia Tech rankings warn players not to wear these helmets: the Riddell VSR4 and the Adams A2000.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook-110719_virginia_tech_helmet_study&sportCat=nfl

Chidi29
02-09-2012, 11:50 AM
It's not as simple as looking at one study and making a final decision. It is a long and complicated process that can not be hastily done. All studies need to be evaluated by the NFL's team, and I'm sure the league has taken this study into consideration (I'm familar with the study as well). And the league obviously says that the only helmets that can be worn are ones that pass the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment's standards.

And there's of course flaws in the study that could come up with the hits coming in a lab and not on the field. Which is why the NFL has been considering putting sensors in helmets to get game-action data of the impacts. That's even said by Goodell's people like Dr. Kevin Guskiewicz.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2011-06-16-helmets_n.htm

"Dr. Guskiewicz: The other challenge is we still have to be sure that all of the (data) is validated. Until there are sufficient published papers on all of these instruments, I think the league is probably going to need to be careful about how quickly we move in that direction."

"Whichever of these technologies or multiple technologies we go with, it is going to take time to answer the most important questions."

http://www.footballreportersonline.com/2010/12/10/read-transcript-of-presser-from-nfl-helmet-seminar/

-----------

Like everything dealing with concussions and rules, there is a difficult line to walk. You want to get the technology and information in and completed as soon as possible so you can continue making a difference. But at the same time, there needs to be some patience to make sure you're doing it the right way. That again is why Goodell has such an extensive team around him (there are SIX subcommittees on the NFL's Head, Neck, and Spine Committee).

And what a total lie for that article to say "There's been no place for the player seeking helmet safety information to turn".

Subcommittee on Safety Equipment
Evaluates performance of safety equipment for the protection of the head and neck. Led by Professor Kevin Guskiewicz, Ph.D., ACT, Chairman, Department of Exercise and Sport Science, University of North Carolina.

Subcommittee on Advocacy and Education
Develops educational material, advocates for safety issues of behalf of all youth and professional athletes. Led by Stanley A. Herring, MD, Clinical Professor, Departments of Rehabilitation Medicine, Orthopaedics and Sports Medicine, and Neurological Surgery at The University of Washington, Director of Spine, Sports and Musculoskeletal Medicine UW Medicine Health System, Co-Medical Director, Seattle Sports Concussion Program and Team Physician Seattle Seahawks and Seattle Mariners.


The injury and safety committee is in part described as doing: The data that is collected is used to assist team medical staff with injury prevention and treatment, as well as inform and guide the league on its health-related policies and injury prevention efforts...

If the players really want to find out more, they certainly can. They just have to care enough to do so and unfortunately so few do.

Chidi29
02-09-2012, 12:00 PM
One really striking thing in the second link I posted were the doctor's comments about helmet-to-helmet hits.

But first, a doctors admission that there isn't always an exact correlation between a big/small hit and concussion/no concussion.

Dr. Ellenbogen: This is not an exact science. One of the things we heard this morning was very interesting. Between the mouthpiece sensors, the hit system and all the sensor technologies, there is not an exact link between the 200G-force and 20G-force and the clinical outcome. There are players who take a 200G-force and still run down the field and are neurologically perfect whereas there are others who take a much smaller impact and – because of maybe the angle of the impact or where in the brain and the important substrate hit – they are concussed.


Dr. Batjer: That point really became obvious this morning when you see that some enormous impacts and the players walked away with absolutely nothing and sometimes relatively minor ones in which that was not the case.

-------

Both of those doctors are the leaders on the NFL's Head, Neck, and Spine Committee. Those are Goodell's right hand men (or for the anti-Goodell bunch, his "henchman". No word if Goodell has a cat he pets as they talk to him).

Dr. Ellenbogen later said this about helmet-to-helmet hits.

Dr. Ellenbogen: The one place where there was correlation, which is interesting, was the scientists were showing that the one place that they agreed on was on helmet-to-helmet hits. Interestingly, all of the scientists said that if we can eliminate a lot of the helmet-to-helmet hits and vertical impact hits, we can certainly lessen the risks of the severe injuries. That correlated fairly well. Those vertex hits correlated pretty well to high-energy hits and then bad outcomes.

For most hits, the results of hits vary. There isn't a direct correlation. But the one that was constant were the helmet to helmet hits.

If you're Goodell and given this information, that the one hit we can definitely point out as having bad outcomes time and time again are of the helmet to helmet variety, then you're going to put in more rules about not allowing contact to the helmet occur. Of course, that still leaves open the other hits that are illegal, but it shows again that many people think it is just Goodell making these rule changes based on nothing. Not the case. He is being given information and would be foolish not to use them.

And let us also not forget that 2/3 of the league needs to ratify any rule changes. Goodell is not a dictator and can not impose the rules on the league without 2/3 consent.

fansince'76
02-09-2012, 12:07 PM
Dr. Ellenbogen: This is not an exact science. One of the things we heard this morning was very interesting. Between the mouthpiece sensors, the hit system and all the sensor technologies, there is not an exact link between the 200G-force and 20G-force and the clinical outcome. There are players who take a 200G-force and still run down the field and are neurologically perfect whereas there are others who take a much smaller impact and – because of maybe the angle of the impact or where in the brain and the important substrate hit – they are concussed.

IOW, fining and suspending players left and right isn't going to change anything besides screwing up the game (except maybe media perception, which is all Goodell gives a damn about anyway)...

Chidi29
02-09-2012, 12:09 PM
IOW, fining and suspending players left and right isn't going to change anything (except maybe media perception, which is all Goodell gives a damn about anyway)...

That's the thing, it's not just that. It's about changing rules, passing new laws (Goodell has been on the fore-front of the Zack Lystedt Law), and trying to educate players.

Chidi29
02-09-2012, 12:11 PM
I was just clicking around the NOCASE's site and here is a statement regarding that VT study Perry.

"Virginia Tech’s rating system approaches a very broad and complex issue from a narrow vantage point of linear accelerations only and does not address rotational accelerations, which the consensus of scientific experts agree are involved in many, if not almost all, concussive events."

http://www.nocsae.org/MediaKit/2011/NOCSAE%20Statement%20on%20Va%20Tech%20RatingFINAL% 2005%2010%2011.pdf

I know you're now happy with the way Goodell has handled things Perry but he is doing a lot to try and improve perhaps the most serious issue facing the NFL today. It's something that as I'm sure you know, is very complex and takes a lot of times and a lot of people. There is no "quick fix" nor is there an easy one. Which is why I feel Goodell gets a bad wrap because it is an incredibly difficult situation that really only two sports have as a primary concern, hockey being the other.

Chidi29
02-09-2012, 12:27 PM
And the VSR4 was discontinued by Riddell in 2010. Very few players wear Adams helmets, too.

Butch
02-09-2012, 07:29 PM
To those who are pro "Go To Hell" Godel how can you support his system for fining players? How come James Harrison's first fine was so much more than any other player who was fined that 1st week? There is no rhyme or reason to what extent a player is fined for. Not just that but why fine a player and sell pictures of the hits (yes more than once)?

I can already hear the pro "Go To Hell" Godel crowd saying there is a committee but if there is a problem with the committee why can't the Great "Go To Hell" Godel do anything to correct it???

Yeah I didn't think so. So does this mean that even the most hardened of "Go To Hell" supporters can not defend his blatant bias against James???

I remember some on this board saying James' comments last year put a target on his back. I say the target was there well before the comments and there was no rhyme or reason for it.

NCSteeler
02-10-2012, 03:13 AM
It's not as simple as looking at one study and making a final decision. It is a long and complicated process that can not be hastily done. All studies need to be evaluated by the NFL's team, and I'm sure the league has taken this study into consideration (I'm familar with the study as well). And the league obviously says that the only helmets that can be worn are ones that pass the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment's standards.

And there's of course flaws in the study that could come up with the hits coming in a lab and not on the field. Which is why the NFL has been considering putting sensors in helmets to get game-action data of the impacts. That's even said by Goodell's people like Dr. Kevin Guskiewicz.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2011-06-16-helmets_n.htm

"Dr. Guskiewicz: The other challenge is we still have to be sure that all of the (data) is validated. Until there are sufficient published papers on all of these instruments, I think the league is probably going to need to be careful about how quickly we move in that direction."

"Whichever of these technologies or multiple technologies we go with, it is going to take time to answer the most important questions."

http://www.footballreportersonline.com/2010/12/10/read-transcript-of-presser-from-nfl-helmet-seminar/

-----------

Like everything dealing with concussions and rules, there is a difficult line to walk. You want to get the technology and information in and completed as soon as possible so you can continue making a difference. But at the same time, there needs to be some patience to make sure you're doing it the right way. That again is why Goodell has such an extensive team around him (there are SIX subcommittees on the NFL's Head, Neck, and Spine Committee).

And what a total lie for that article to say "There's been no place for the player seeking helmet safety information to turn".

Subcommittee on Safety Equipment
Evaluates performance of safety equipment for the protection of the head and neck. Led by Professor Kevin Guskiewicz, Ph.D., ACT, Chairman, Department of Exercise and Sport Science, University of North Carolina.

Subcommittee on Advocacy and Education
Develops educational material, advocates for safety issues of behalf of all youth and professional athletes. Led by Stanley A. Herring, MD, Clinical Professor, Departments of Rehabilitation Medicine, Orthopaedics and Sports Medicine, and Neurological Surgery at The University of Washington, Director of Spine, Sports and Musculoskeletal Medicine UW Medicine Health System, Co-Medical Director, Seattle Sports Concussion Program and Team Physician Seattle Seahawks and Seattle Mariners.


The injury and safety committee is in part described as doing: The data that is collected is used to assist team medical staff with injury prevention and treatment, as well as inform and guide the league on its health-related policies and injury prevention efforts...

If the players really want to find out more, they certainly can. They just have to care enough to do so and unfortunately so few do.

you use words like patience, care and not hastily about how the league dealing with possibly making the worst helmet in many studies not one for use in the league. That decision would deal with sponsorship's and revenue, correct? it is exactly the opposite of how Goodell has dealt with on the field rules and fines, there has been no careful thought, no patience and it has all been done hastily, but of course no league revenue at stake so it's ok to knee jerk and over reach.

Just George
02-10-2012, 10:29 AM
I trust that Goodell's massive team of doctors and six subcommittees are doing what they can to prevent head injuries to the best of their abilites.

OK I can see where you are coming from that Goodell will always be seen as the the worst thing to happen to football, but he has had a lot of success in leading the league in increased revenue and general popularity. BUT I question your reliance on trusting the league and their medical staff.

The issue with Toradol is making news (see below also there was a spot about it on Bryant Gumbel's HBO sports show). This medicine allows players to stay in the game even when hurt which INCREASES the risk of further injury. It also is potentially linked to risk of liver and kidney failure in the high doses and frequency that team doctor's are dispensing it, and it is given out freely. Players say they are not told of the potential risks.

One of the NFL lead Doctor's when asked about this said it was NOT a league issue but something left between the Team Doctors and their patients. Well players will not always make the best decisions and if player safety is really a concern then the NFL has a responsibility to address this issue not give it a wink and a nod.

The NFL wants players playing, they want big hits and the fury that sells tickets, TV, posters, DVDs etc.

So while I don't think the NFL and its executives or doctors are evil despotic tyrants they ARE capitalist. They have a product and need to market it, sell it and make as much profit as they can. Now that is not wrong, I believe in companies making money, but don't for one second think that "player safety" is an altruistic goal for them.

As many people have said when their is a lack of consistency in the plan it should make you wonder what the real goal is.


Ex-Players Suing N.F.L Over Use of PainkillerBy KEN BELSON (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/ken_belson/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: December 5, 2011

"In the latest lawsuit based on medical issues against the N.F.L. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/national_football_league/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
, a dozen former players have accused the league and its teams of repeatedly administering the painkiller Toradol before and during games, worsening high-risk injuries like concussions.


The players also contend that the league and its teams failed to warn them of the consequences of taking the drug, a blood thinner that, according to the suit, “can prevent the feeling of injury” and therefore made it harder for players to recognize when they had concussions.“The plaintiffs have described the situation as one of being in a pregame locker room with players lining up to receive injections of Toradol in a ‘cattle call’ with no warnings of any sort being given, no distinguishing between different medical conditions of the players, and regardless of whether the player had an injury of any kind,” the suit alleges.The dozen retired players, including Joe Horn (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HornJo00.htm), Matt Joyce (http://www.nfl.com/player/mattjoyce/2501544/profile)and Jerome Pathon (http://www.nfl.com/player/jeromepathon/2502417/profile), played in the late 1990s and early 2000s and say they now have anxiety, depression, short-term memory loss, severe headaches, sleeping problems and dizziness, according to Christopher A. Seeger (http://www.seegerweiss.com/attorneys/partners/christopher-a-seeger), the lead lawyer for the plaintiffs.“We took it like clockwork,” said Horn, a receiver who played 12 years with the Kansas City Chiefs, the New Orleans Saints and the Atlanta Falcons and who says he now experiences bouts of dizziness and blackouts. “They don’t meet with you to tell you what will happen five years later. Had I known that there were going to be complications, I wouldn’t have taken the shots.”In accusing the league of negligence, fraud, fraudulent concealment, negligent misrepresentation and conspiracy, the former players are seeking an unspecified amount of compensatory and punitive damages, and the reimbursement of their legal costs..."http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/sports/football/nfl-sued-by-ex-players-over-painkiller-toradol.html

Chidi29
02-10-2012, 10:29 AM
you use words like patience, care and not hastily about how the league dealing with possibly making the worst helmet in many studies not one for use in the league. That decision would deal with sponsorship's and revenue, correct? it is exactly the opposite of how Goodell has dealt with on the field rules and fines, there has been no careful thought, no patience and it has all been done hastily, but of course no league revenue at stake so it's ok to knee jerk and over reach.

I do agree that the decision two years ago to implement the harsher punishments was a mistake by Goodell. I've said that before and I'll be the first one to say it again. I am capable of being critical of Goodell even though most think I don't.

But like I said, the few things the scientists have found out about the seriousness of helmet to helmet collisions to a fairly certain point, Goodell has then been able to come in and try to adjust the league accordingly. And today, there is a lengthy fine process that happens in just a few days. With the matter of fines, there simply isn't enough time to wait as there are with concussion studies.

Chidi29
02-10-2012, 10:38 AM
OK I can see where you are coming from that Goodell will always be seen as the the worst thing to happen to football, but he has had a lot of success in leading the league in increased revenue and general popularity. BUT I question your reliance on trusting the league and their medical staff.

The issue with Toradol is making news (see below also there was a spot about it on Bryant Gumbel's HBO sports show). This medicine allows players to stay in the game even when hurt which INCREASES the risk of further injury. It also is potentially linked to risk of liver and kidney failure in the high doses and frequency that team doctor's are dispensing it, and it is given out freely. Players say they are not told of the potential risks.

One of the NFL lead Doctor's when asked about this said it was NOT a league issue but something left between the Team Doctors and their patients. Well players will not always make the best decisions and if player safety is really a concern then the NFL has a responsibility to address this issue not give it a wink and a nod.

The NFL wants players playing, they want big hits and the fury that sells tickets, TV, posters, DVDs etc.

So while I don't think the NFL and its executives or doctors are evil despotic tyrants they ARE capitalist. They have a product and need to market it, sell it and make as much profit as they can. Now that is not wrong, I believe in companies making money, but don't for one second think that "player safety" is an altruistic goal for them.

As many people have said when their is a lack of consistency in the plan it should make you wonder what the real goal is.


Ex-Players Suing N.F.L Over Use of PainkillerBy KEN BELSON (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/ken_belson/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: December 5, 2011

"In the latest lawsuit based on medical issues against the N.F.L. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/national_football_league/index.html?inline=nyt-org)
, a dozen former players have accused the league and its teams of repeatedly administering the painkiller Toradol before and during games, worsening high-risk injuries like concussions.


The players also contend that the league and its teams failed to warn them of the consequences of taking the drug, a blood thinner that, according to the suit, “can prevent the feeling of injury” and therefore made it harder for players to recognize when they had concussions.“The plaintiffs have described the situation as one of being in a pregame locker room with players lining up to receive injections of Toradol in a ‘cattle call’ with no warnings of any sort being given, no distinguishing between different medical conditions of the players, and regardless of whether the player had an injury of any kind,” the suit alleges.The dozen retired players, including Joe Horn (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HornJo00.htm), Matt Joyce (http://www.nfl.com/player/mattjoyce/2501544/profile)and Jerome Pathon (http://www.nfl.com/player/jeromepathon/2502417/profile), played in the late 1990s and early 2000s and say they now have anxiety, depression, short-term memory loss, severe headaches, sleeping problems and dizziness, according to Christopher A. Seeger (http://www.seegerweiss.com/attorneys/partners/christopher-a-seeger), the lead lawyer for the plaintiffs.“We took it like clockwork,” said Horn, a receiver who played 12 years with the Kansas City Chiefs, the New Orleans Saints and the Atlanta Falcons and who says he now experiences bouts of dizziness and blackouts. “They don’t meet with you to tell you what will happen five years later. Had I known that there were going to be complications, I wouldn’t have taken the shots.”In accusing the league of negligence, fraud, fraudulent concealment, negligent misrepresentation and conspiracy, the former players are seeking an unspecified amount of compensatory and punitive damages, and the reimbursement of their legal costs..."http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/sports/football/nfl-sued-by-ex-players-over-painkiller-toradol.html

This is the first I've heard of an issue with it so I admit I don't know much about the subject.

This suit seems relatively new so the league probably hasn't had time to react to it (again, trying to avoid knee-jerk reactions before all the facts come in). And a lot of players who are filing the suit were playing under Taglibue, not Goodell. I imagine the league is looking into it though if you're the player, it's hard to imagine they didn't think there would be consequences to taking a painkiller like "clockwork". Any drug that is abused is a dangerous thing.

I think people think that in order for Goodell to follow through on his goal of a safe game is 100% safety without ever having any issues. To go from 0-60, from unsafe to perfectly safe. That's unrealistic. There is a process, not everything can be solved in a heartbeat. But with this team around him full of brilliant minds, I'm sure imrpovement will be made. And it already has.

But you're right. It is a business to Goodell. That's part of his job, he is running a business. No doubt about that.

Chidi29
02-10-2012, 10:39 AM
And for medical staff, I was talking about these guys,

http://nflhealthandsafety.com/commitment/committees/#injuryandsafety

Not individual team doctors and staff.

LLT
02-12-2012, 10:37 AM
And the VSR4 was discontinued by Riddell in 2010. Very few players wear Adams helmets, too.

Virtualy noone wears the Adams....but 40 % of those with concussions were found to be using the VSR4

also...your quote from NOCSAE is little more than damage control. They are half the problem...more interested in public perception than safety.

The Virginia Tech tests included imbedding accelerometers in the helmets of college football players to track the number and severity of hits to the head, including side impacts, and tracking the number of concussions which resulted. Virginia Tech than conducted drop-tests, from different heights, to measure the amount of force the helmets allowed to reach the skull (the lower the force, the lower the risk of concussion)....

While Virginia Tech's research failed to include a study of rotational forces (Which is debatable since the players were actually WEARING them in real time)....the truth is that the NOCSAE test only tests for a helmet's ability to prevent skull fractures, not concussions or other brain injury at all!!!!

Which research to you think is more valid? Why would NOCSAE be so quick discard such in depth research all together? Deflection? Denial? Distract?....Hmmmmm sounds a "good deal" like "Goodell"