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View Full Version : Art Rooney II on Bruce Arians: 'It was time for a change'



polamalubeast
01-26-2012, 11:38 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/26/art-rooney-ii-on-bruce-arians-it-was-time-for-a-change/

Chidi29
01-26-2012, 12:10 PM
"Bruce had talked about retirement for a few years now, so I think it was time for a change, and we’re looking forward to moving on.”

That's not unreasonable after his cancer treatment. It puts a new perspective on your life, realizing its short, especially when you're battling it.

But after beating it, it doesn't seem like retirement. Last year, he was applying for a head coaching job. Certainly something you don't see from a guy retiring in the next year.

Steeldude
01-26-2012, 12:30 PM
so the owner agrees with the so-called haters. that's not going to sit well with the lovers

Chidi29
01-26-2012, 12:32 PM
so the owner agrees with the so-called haters. that's not going to sit well with the lovers

And the coach and starting QB agree with the "lovers".

Dino 6 Rings
01-26-2012, 12:38 PM
If my boss told me to do things one way...like "I'd like you to run the ball more" and I refused to listen to him, continued to pass the ball, allowed my QB to be sacked 47, 46, 50, 32 (sat 4 games), and 40 times in successive years and ended up under performing in my job by being the 21st ranked offense in which I had 29 Turnovers for the year and my FG Kicker was the leading scorer with 23 FGs, I'd be Fired Too.

Edman
01-26-2012, 12:45 PM
Watch Arians fans try to villify Rooney for this. Bruce got a bum rap and crap like that.

The Steelers will be better off for this.

Chidi29
01-26-2012, 12:50 PM
If my boss told me to do things one way...like "I'd like you to run the ball more" and I refused to listen to him, continued to pass the ball, allowed my QB to be sacked 47, 46, 50, 32 (sat 4 games), and 40 times in successive years and ended up under performing in my job by being the 21st ranked offense in which I had 29 Turnovers for the year and my FG Kicker was the leading scorer with 23 FGs, I'd be Fired Too.

He said run the ball better...which is what Arians did. We averaged 4.4 YPC for the season, the best in quite some time.

If you had an offensive line that had 9 different starting lineups, your QB would be under siege too. Especially one that will never be and can never be molded into a Peyton Manning/Kurt Warner type.

How are the turnovers Arians' fault? He isn't fumbling the ball or making the decisions out there.

In Whiz's three seasons, the kicker led the team in points...all three times. Twice did Reed have 24 or more FGs. I fail to see your point...a lot kickers lead their teams in scoring.

Steeldude
01-26-2012, 12:55 PM
And the coach and starting QB agree with the "lovers".

but the lovers imply the FO is never wrong.

Steeldude
01-26-2012, 12:56 PM
If my boss told me to do things one way...like "I'd like you to run the ball more" and I refused to listen to him, continued to pass the ball, allowed my QB to be sacked 47, 46, 50, 32 (sat 4 games), and 40 times in successive years and ended up under performing in my job by being the 21st ranked offense in which I had 29 Turnovers for the year and my FG Kicker was the leading scorer with 23 FGs, I'd be Fired Too.

but don't the slow developing pass plays work well with a poor to average O-line?

Chidi29
01-26-2012, 12:57 PM
but the lovers imply the FO is never wrong.

I can't speak for them though I know some have put together well-constructed arguments in favor of keeping Arians. Just as those opposed have put together good arguments.

polamalubeast
01-26-2012, 01:08 PM
but the lovers imply the FO is never wrong.

No front office in the NFL is perfect, but the Steelers FO is one of the best in the NFL.

XxKnightxX
01-26-2012, 01:52 PM
Is it just me or does Art Rooney Look like the G Man from Half life ?

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/artrooneymarch11ap-e1300044592327.jpg?w=233
http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/2/27/G-man_heart_to_heart_headshot.jpg

Haha Kinda creepy. Anyway, I think Rooney put his foot down and said it himself. Im not gonna settle with Arians, I want someone fresh and new, and im putting this on the hands of Tomlin. You see how he keeps mentioning Tomlin doing the OC interviews. So its basically putting heat on Tomlin too. Smart move on Rooneys part.

GodfatherofSoul
01-26-2012, 01:59 PM
[QUOTE=XxKnightxX;258514]Is it just me or does Art Rooney Look like the G Man from Half life ?

http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/2/27/G-man_heart_to_heart_headshot.jpg
QUOTE]

Awesome, points for the HL reference!

X-Terminator
01-26-2012, 02:15 PM
Watch Arians fans try to villify Rooney for this. Bruce got a bum rap and crap like that.

The Steelers will be better off for this.

Why would any "Arians fan" vilify Rooney for this? It's his team, and if he felt it was time for a change, who am I to argue? I still trust the FO's and the Rooney's judgment in just about every matter involving the team, including this one.

Also, and I don't know how many times this needs to be said, I am NOT the huge Arians fan that you and others seem to imply. I had a lot of issues with him, most notably the red zone efficiency problem. I just didn't feel he was the embodiment of all that is evil like you and the other Arians haters do and did. So stop lumping me in with that so-called "group" that only exists in your damn minds.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-26-2012, 02:29 PM
If my boss told me to do things one way...like "I'd like you to run the ball more" and I refused to listen to him, continued to pass the ball, allowed my QB to be sacked 47, 46, 50, 32 (sat 4 games), and 40 times in successive years and ended up under performing in my job by being the 21st ranked offense in which I had 29 Turnovers for the year and my FG Kicker was the leading scorer with 23 FGs, I'd be Fired Too.
But, but, but........the boss is wrong. The best employee in the place really likes you, and so does the foreman. In fact he's your neighbour and you go golfing together.

suitanim
01-26-2012, 02:57 PM
I'm sorry, but there is no "spin" or mental gymnastics the haters can bring to bear that will refute the FACT, the stone-cold, iron-clad lock of a FACT that Rooney LIED ABOUT THIS!

He said it was Tomlin's call. It clearly and obviously wasn't. Now he's trying to pooh-pooh it and claim that "the process isn't relevant".

This is dangerous ground for the Steelers. You can scare away talent if what you say isn't really what you say. It's a slippery slope to start obfuscating your position, or placing the blame on others instead of manning up and taking responsibility.

He SHOULD have just said it was his call all the way.

BigNastyDefense
01-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Art II is the owner of this team and has every right to fire or not renew a coach's contract if he sees fit. He felt that a change needed to be made, and he made it. I am not an Arians lover or hater, I feel that I was mostly neutral in those arguments, because both camps make good arguments.

Should he have let Tomlin make the decision? Possibly. But he chose to make the decision himself, because Tomlin didn't make the decision that Art II wanted him to.

No front office is perfect, but the Steelers have one of the best in the NFL. I think that in the end, at the least, we won't be any worse for this move.

suitanim
01-26-2012, 03:12 PM
Art II is the owner of this team and has every right to fire or not renew a coach's contract if he sees fit. He felt that a change needed to be made, and he made it. I am not an Arians lover or hater, I feel that I was mostly neutral in those arguments, because both camps make good arguments.

Should he have let Tomlin make the decision? Possibly. But he chose to make the decision himself, because Tomlin didn't make the decision that Art II wanted him to.

No front office is perfect, but the Steelers have one of the best in the NFL. I think that in the end, at the least, we won't be any worse for this move.

All that is true, but why lie? Why blame the coach? Why not just be decisive and call his own shot?

This is NOT the Steeler way.

O'Malley
01-26-2012, 03:45 PM
All that is true, but why lie? Why blame the coach? Why not just be decisive and call his own shot?

This is NOT the Steeler way.

From what I've gathered Suit you must have been in the meeting... Whether you think he lied or not is moot.. He made the decision and that's that.. Last time I checked it was his team.. Bruce had a 5 year run... Proved to be a mental midget in the red zone.. Got the boot. End...

suitanim
01-26-2012, 03:49 PM
From what I've gathered Suit you must have been in the meeting... Whether you think he lied or not is moot.. He made the decision and that's that.. Last time I checked it was his team.. Bruce had a 5 year run... Proved to be a mental midget in the red zone.. Got the boot. End...

Really?

That's it?

Just going to brush off the radio interview where Rooney said it was Tomlin's call? I mean, what do you care about telling the truth or integrity or the solidness of the Steelers organization, right? As long as you got rid of the dreaded OC....

suitanim
01-26-2012, 03:52 PM
There is (or at least there was) a solid red line that separated the Steelers from the Cowboys and the Raiders and the Redskins of this World.

I fear we may be crossing it. I hope this doesn't degenerate into another thing like Barry Bonds, where people from Pittsburgh just willingly participate in group insanity and give the guy a pass because he played for YOUR team.

Count Steeler
01-26-2012, 03:58 PM
All that is true, but why lie? Why blame the coach? Why not just be decisive and call his own shot?

This is NOT the Steeler way.

Have to agree Suit. Don't like the way Rooney is handling this now. Will be interesting to see how this issue goes away, but this may have long lasting repercussions in the Steeler's organization.

This is not just an Arians issue.

SCSTILLER
01-26-2012, 04:10 PM
There is (or at least there was) a solid red line that separated the Steelers from the Cowboys and the Raiders and the Redskins of this World.

I fear we may be crossing it. I hope this doesn't degenerate into another thing like Barry Bonds, where people from Pittsburgh just willingly participate in group insanity and give the guy a pass because he played for YOUR team.

I have been thinking the same thing while reading the different articles and posts about the firing of Arians. I really hope that Rooney doesn't start meddling too much into the normal player personnel decisions and lets the FO do the job they are hired for since it has been working extremely well. Snider and Jones meddle too much in the personnel decisions of their teams and look how great their teams are year to year.

Now, I am one that is glad Arians is gone, primarily for his red zone inefficiency and also, as has been said above, slow developing plays with a swiss cheese offensive line. Arians seemed stubborn to me and I for one am glad to see him go and am looking forward to some new ideas being brought to this offense (hopefully).

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-26-2012, 04:44 PM
Arians seemed stubborn to me and I for one am glad to see him go and am looking forward to some new ideas being brought to this offense (hopefully).

Myopic pitchfork carrying hater. :eyebrows:

HometownGal
01-26-2012, 05:07 PM
I'm not at all happy with Art II's decision as I feel BA was unjustly blamed for things that in all reality just simply weren't his fault, but I've always trusted the judgment of the Rooney RO in the past and I'm going to trust their decision here.

ALLD
01-26-2012, 05:44 PM
I don't care what anybody says, he said, she said or whatever. Rooney is 100% right. The O was not disciplined and 12th overall was not good enough. Just like in Indy where you lose one player and the team implodes.

Time for a good change where it was needed, albeit one year late.

Steeldude
01-26-2012, 06:32 PM
I'm sorry, but there is no "spin" or mental gymnastics the haters can bring to bear that will refute the FACT, the stone-cold, iron-clad lock of a FACT that Rooney LIED ABOUT THIS!

He said it was Tomlin's call. It clearly and obviously wasn't. Now he's trying to pooh-pooh it and claim that "the process isn't relevant".

This is dangerous ground for the Steelers. You can scare away talent if what you say isn't really what you say. It's a slippery slope to start obfuscating your position, or placing the blame on others instead of manning up and taking responsibility.

He SHOULD have just said it was his call all the way.

mole hill meet mountain

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman4481l.jpg

Psycho Ward 86
01-26-2012, 06:52 PM
I'm sorry, but there is no "spin" or mental gymnastics the haters can bring to bear that will refute the FACT, the stone-cold, iron-clad lock of a FACT that Rooney LIED ABOUT THIS!

He said it was Tomlin's call. It clearly and obviously wasn't. Now he's trying to pooh-pooh it and claim that "the process isn't relevant".

This is dangerous ground for the Steelers. You can scare away talent if what you say isn't really what you say. It's a slippery slope to start obfuscating your position, or placing the blame on others instead of manning up and taking responsibility.

He SHOULD have just said it was his call all the way.



are you ok

86WARD
01-26-2012, 08:09 PM
no need for Arians to villify Rooney. Ben is going to try first...lol.

Shoes
01-26-2012, 09:03 PM
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often. ~ Winston Churchhill

...........within reason. :chuckle:

NCSteeler
01-26-2012, 11:57 PM
There is (or at least there was) a solid red line that separated the Steelers from the Cowboys and the Raiders and the Redskins of this World.

I fear we may be crossing it. I hope this doesn't degenerate into another thing like Barry Bonds, where people from Pittsburgh just willingly participate in group insanity and give the guy a pass because he played for YOUR team.

What was that you posted to us that wanted Arians gone??? Oh yeah go be a fan of another team if you don't like it.

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 12:00 AM
What was that you posted to us that wanted Arians gone??? Oh yeah go be a fan of another team if you don't like it.

So that's the ultimatium? Defend Arians or don't be a Steelers' fan?

NCSteeler
01-27-2012, 12:03 AM
Not sure of the timing of it all, but is it unreasonable to think AR2 talked to Tomlin after the season, said hey this offense has got to change, got to get better. Tomlin say yeah I know, so AR2 thinks Arians is a goner, he gives an interview saying it's Tomlin's call and then Tomlin says all my coaches are coming back and AR2 says WTF dude I thought we talked about this. haha I can picture it all playing out . To me it's much ado about not much and if you are going to blow your trust in 70 something years of Rooneys over one minor coaching change, uh IDK.

NCSteeler
01-27-2012, 12:06 AM
So that's the ultimatium? Defend Arians or don't be a Steelers' fan?

No you follow enough posts here to know he said to the"haters" if they didn't like Arians staying they could just go hop on some other bandwagon and never come back. Well now that he's gone and all of a sudden Rooney's can't be trusted and were the next Raiders or Cowboy/Redskins, I just made him the same offer. I know childish on my part but I didn't like being told I wasn't a good Steelrs fan because I didn't think Arians should be retained.

Maybe he'll create an alter Ego and lure me into getting myself banned

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 12:08 AM
No you follow enough posts here to know he said to the"haters" if they didn't like Arians staying they could just go hop on some other bandwagon and never come back. Well now that he's gone and all of a sudden Rooney's can't be trusted and were the next Raiders or Cowboy/Redskins, I just made him the same offer. I know childish on my part but I didn't like being told I wasn't a good Steelrs fan because I didn't think Arians should be retained.

Maybe he'll create an alter Ego and lure me into getting myself banned

I think it's a fair question and one I posed the other day. Not that I've lost trust in the Rooney's, but it was a Jerry Jones' esque move where the owner is making the decsions instead of the head coach.

suitanim
01-27-2012, 05:40 AM
So that's the ultimatium? Defend Arians or don't be a Steelers' fan?

That's not nearly the most retarded idea that's been bandied about.

What I said was that if you demand that your team be #1 in scoring, something that they have not done since CARTER WAS IN THE WHITEHOUSE, go jump on the Patriots bandwagon. It's pretty funny to watch the whiners tell ME to leave the ship because I make a legitimate claim that the ownership is venturing into different (and more dangerous) territory than usual.

Them: "Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch"
Me: "Well, you can always jump on the Patriots winning wagon. And I think Rooney screwed up."
Them: (Whining and crying) "If you don;t like it go cheer for somebody else! Don't say mean things about the owner!"

Steeldude
01-27-2012, 05:42 AM
Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch

lol..who didn't see this type of post coming?

X-Terminator
01-27-2012, 08:16 AM
Sorry, but I thought it was funny...:lol:

I think everyone involved here needs to lighten up a little, including me. I know I've gone a little loopy over this myself, but at this point, what's done is done. Arians is gone and a new guy is coming in. I'm still worried about the "old offense" comment from AR2, though.

Bluecoat96
01-27-2012, 08:39 AM
I know some of you are concerned that it seems Mr. Rooney overstepped Coach T. Being the obsessed fan that I am, I find much of my rambling thoughts tend to come back to the Steelers. I had thought about when Ben was drafted in 2004, and how Dan Rooney spoke of stepping in to help make sure Ben was picked. I wonder how this board would have reacted back then to the Rooneys stepping in? Was it the same case of completely overriding Coach Cowher as some assume it is with Coach T.?

X-Terminator
01-27-2012, 08:51 AM
I know some of you are concerned that it seems Mr. Rooney overstepped Coach T. Being the obsessed fan that I am, I find much of my rambling thoughts tend to come back to the Steelers. I had thought about when Ben was drafted in 2004, and how Dan Rooney spoke of stepping in to help make sure Ben was picked. I wonder how this board would have reacted back then to the Rooneys stepping in? Was it the same case of completely overriding Coach Cowher as some assume it is with Coach T.?

I think the difference was Dan did it privately, while AR2 is making his feelings public, and we are all used to the former. I don't think anything else is different as far as the Rooneys stepping in and overriding decisions by the coach/GM as I'm sure they've done more than a few times in the past.

Bluecoat96
01-27-2012, 08:58 AM
I think the difference was Dan did it privately, while AR2 is making his feelings public, and we are all used to the former. I don't think anything else is different as far as the Rooneys stepping in and overriding decisions by the coach/GM as I'm sure they've done more than a few times in the past.

Good point, although social media/internet has really exploded over the last 8 years. I think it's probably a lot harder to keep things more "private" these days.

Pristas
01-27-2012, 09:19 AM
I just wanted to address the point about Rooney's interview saying it was "Tomlin's call". I have had a client or a boss make a "suggestion" to me, and when I didn't follow that suggestion, I found that the decision was made for me. Tomlin probably received the "suggestion" from Rooney to let BA retire. Tomlin chose to keep Arians saying that there would be "no changes". Rooney didn't feel that was the way to go, so he pulled his owner card out and played the hand that dealt BA off the team. Simple as that, to me. It's not a Rooney vs. Tomlin thing, it's not a Rooney vs. Good moral thing. It's just an executive decision that needed to be made. I have no problem with it, and if anything, it will light the fire under Tomlin's butt to work a little harder... which might be a good thing. A new OC and some new linemen is a welcomed change in conjunction with Rooney's desire for a better offense. I like the way 2012 is shaping up. Everyone is going to be challenged to obtain/retain roster spots, and it would seem that no position is safe. That to me is a recipe for fire... and we could use a little fire on this team.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2012, 09:36 AM
So that's the ultimatium? Defend Arians or don't be a Steelers' fan?

No, the poster was merely pointing out that many on this board who were not fans or Arians offense were told to "stop whining and trust in the front office" or "accept that Arians is here to stay or go be a fan of another team".

Now that Arians has been pushed out the door, the roles have reversed and some cant see the hypocritical attitude, because they are blocked by the love of the bubble screen.

suitanim
01-27-2012, 11:03 AM
The post about Ben being drafted in '04 reminded me of another episode where the stupidity of some Steeler ans came to bear.

There was a pretty sizable gather of us at the old Steeler Nation tailgate for draft day, and MOST of the people on the board were hoping for Ben to be our pick (although there were some pretty big fights over Phillip Rivers, too as I recall). Anyway, when Ben was drafted a huge "WHOOP!" went up from our crowd, but we heard some boos from others, and we talked to several people from other tailgates who were just SURE that Ben would be a bust. Of course history showed them to be completely wrong, but it just goes to prove that shared love of a football team does not mean that your fellow fans are automatically all that particularly astute.

Also, the canard that I'm being hypocritical is just the usual drivel and tripe without basis in fact. Whereas the braintrusts criticisms are always knee-jerk over-reactions benefited greatly and conveniently by perfect 20/20 hindsight, MY call on Rooney is that he was a little shady in his dealings with the players and the coaches during this process. I understand some people want to spin and twist this, but it's pretty cut and dried. Tomlin wanted Arians back, Ben obviously wanted Arians back, Rooney very publicly said it was Tomlin's call (that wasn't on twitter or facebook, it was in a radio interview), and then he went ahead and made the arbitrary decision to shitcan BA anyway. There aren't a whole lot of ways to view that other than exactly what it was. Of course that's his right as the owner, but stay above-board and be a man about it. Just say "It was my decision all along, nobody else, and I made it". Why hide and pass blame around? It wasn't good form.

BnG_Hevn
01-27-2012, 11:31 AM
He said run the ball better...which is what Arians did. We averaged 4.4 YPC for the season, the best in quite some time.

If you had an offensive line that had 9 different starting lineups, your QB would be under siege too. Especially one that will never be and can never be molded into a Peyton Manning/Kurt Warner type.

How are the turnovers Arians' fault? He isn't fumbling the ball or making the decisions out there.

In Whiz's three seasons, the kicker led the team in points...all three times. Twice did Reed have 24 or more FGs. I fail to see your point...a lot kickers lead their teams in scoring.

You can't go by stats alone. If you run and average 6 YPC but can't get the 3rd and 2, what good does it do you?

What I can't understand is why everyone is saying Arians was "ran out of town". The Rooney's simply didn't extend his contract. He wasn't "fired", h just wasn't "re-hired".

BnG_Hevn
01-27-2012, 11:35 AM
All that is true, but why lie? Why blame the coach? Why not just be decisive and call his own shot?

This is NOT the Steeler way.

Maybe at the time Rooney said it was Tomlins choice it WAS Tomlin's choice. Tomilin made the wrong choice so Rooney corrected it. Then it wouldn't be a lie.

suitanim
01-27-2012, 11:47 AM
Maybe at the time Rooney said it was Tomlins choice it WAS Tomlin's choice. Tomilin made the wrong choice so Rooney corrected it. Then it wouldn't be a lie.

What kind of message does that send to the coach: "It's your decision to make, as long as you also make the same exact decision I'VE already made for you"?

X-Terminator
01-27-2012, 12:21 PM
You can't go by stats alone. If you run and average 6 YPC but can't get the 3rd and 2, what good does it do you?

They were actually one of the better teams in the league on 3rd/4th and short.

86WARD
01-27-2012, 12:23 PM
They were probably one of the best on third and long as well...without looking. However, I'll bet their 2nd down plays we're probably one of the worst in the league.

X-Terminator
01-27-2012, 12:35 PM
They were 7th overall on 3rd downs last season, which isn't too bad at all: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/thirdDownConvPct

O'Malley
01-27-2012, 12:40 PM
I don't know why we are arguing over a coach no longer on the Steelers staff... He is gone.. He is bieng replaced.. He had his 5 year window close and it's time for a new OC.. Good or bad we have no say in the matter and all will have to support the new OC.. Steelers move on from this and hopefully it's the right choice.. I can't see it being the wrong choice, but others can... We have to agree to disagree and move on.. Talkng to eachother like a bunch of Eagles fans here.. Where did the class and dignity go.. We're all on the same side, we should start acting like it again.. No matter how long we argue about the same thing we aren't going to change anybodys opinion on the matter... So lets move on for Steelers Nation at least... Can't we all just get along!:tt02: :drink:

suitanim
01-27-2012, 12:41 PM
They were 7th overall on 3rd downs last season, which isn't too bad at all: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/thirdDownConvPct

Therein lies the rub. Unless we are number 1 in every category, and don't win the Super Bowl every year, there can technically always be room to improve.

suitanim
01-27-2012, 12:44 PM
I don't know why we are arguing over a coach no longer on the Steelers staff... He is gone.. He is bieng replaced.. He had his 5 year window close and it's time for a new OC.. Good or bad we have no say in the matter and all will have to support the new OC.. Steelers move on from this and hopefully it's the right choice.. I can't see it being the wrong choice, but others can... We have to agree to disagree and move on.. Talkng to eachother like a bunch of Eagles fans here.. Where did the class and dignity go.. We're all on the same side, we should start acting like it again.. No matter how long we argue about the same thing we aren't going to change anybodys opinion on the matter... So lets move on for Steelers Nation at least... Can't we all just get along!:tt02: :drink:

This would make sense if this move would eliminate blind criticism of the OC. It will not. The same arguments will be made next year. Probably by the same people. It's been like this as long as I can remember.

It doesn't matter who the OC is. If we don't win the SB every year and finish number 1 in every offensive stat category, people will be second-guessing the offense, ridiculously acting like they would be better equipped than the OC, and whining and crying about how we should have selected someone else.

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 12:57 PM
You can't go by stats alone. If you run and average 6 YPC but can't get the 3rd and 2, what good does it do you?

What I can't understand is why everyone is saying Arians was "ran out of town". The Rooney's simply didn't extend his contract. He wasn't "fired", h just wasn't "re-hired".

When did we not "get the 3rd and 2"?

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2012, 01:45 PM
When did we not "get the 3rd and 2"?

3-2-SF 33 (6:19) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 84-A.Brown. Pittsburgh challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 06:13.)

You asked. Pretty typical of having to go shotgun on short yardage with no blue collar type running game. Even with an injured QB vs. the 49ers.

zulater
01-27-2012, 01:49 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IlH0VeTJce8/S84LZ3LInzI/AAAAAAAAAOk/p6dWIGJQ3lQ/s1600/Davey+Crockett+at+Alamo.jpg

Suitanim ( rifle above head) and Chidi ( kneeling with rifle) protecting Ft. Arians against the onrushing "braintrust". :chuckle:

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 02:11 PM
3-2-SF 33 (6:19) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 84-A.Brown. Pittsburgh challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 06:13.)

You asked. Pretty typical of having to go shotgun on short yardage with no blue collar type running game. Even with an injured QB vs. the 49ers.

I wasn't trying to be critical or call him a liar. I'm sure there were 3rd and shorts we didn't convert, just like every other team.

To be fair, we were 4/5 passing on 3rd and 3 and short in that game against a top run defense. So I have no problem with passing in that game, considering we were 4/4 coming into the play.

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 02:14 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IlH0VeTJce8/S84LZ3LInzI/AAAAAAAAAOk/p6dWIGJQ3lQ/s1600/Davey+Crockett+at+Alamo.jpg

Suitanim ( rifle above head) and Chidi ( kneeling with rifle) protecting Ft. Arians against the onrushing "braintrust". :chuckle:

Never forget!

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2012, 02:42 PM
I wasn't trying to be critical or call him a liar. I'm sure there were 3rd and shorts we didn't convert, just like every other team.

To be fair, we were 4/5 passing on 3rd and 3 and short in that game against a top run defense. So I have no problem with passing in that game, considering we were 4/4 coming into the play.

To be fair, we also lost the game 20-3.

Really nice stat lines by Ben of 330 yards passing, but 3 points?? Glad that you have no problem with passing in that game.

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 02:43 PM
To be fair, we also lost the game 20-3.

Really nice stat lines by Ben of 330 yards passing, but 3 points?? Glad that you have no problem with passing in that game.

Passing on 3rd and short is what I was referencing.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2012, 02:48 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IlH0VeTJce8/S84LZ3LInzI/AAAAAAAAAOk/p6dWIGJQ3lQ/s1600/Davey+Crockett+at+Alamo.jpg

Suitanim ( rifle above head) and Chidi ( kneeling with rifle) protecting Ft. Arians against the onrushing "braintrust". :chuckle:
That is some good stuff there. Can you do one of Mr and Mrs Lincoln at the play.

"other than the lack of points and the loss....did you like that we had over 300 yards passing this week??"

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2012, 02:49 PM
Passing on 3rd and short is what I was referencing. Fair enough. I was just thinking that if we had any kind of running game, that is something you can lean on when your QB should not be playing with a high ankle sprain.

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 02:51 PM
Fair enough. I was just thinking that if we had any kind of running game, that is something you can lean on when your QB should not be playing with a high ankle sprain.

We did run it 18 times. Not sure exactly what the splits were. For a game where we were trailing and had to pass late, that isn't too bad.

GBMelBlount
01-27-2012, 03:01 PM
Coming to Steelers Universe the past few days reminds of the movie "Ground Hog Day" with Bill Murray.

It is actually getting to the point where it is humorous (At least to me - lol).

Bottom line, we can argue for months but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

These discussions are becoming counterproductive and polarizing.

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 03:03 PM
Coming to Steelers Universe the past few days reminds of the movie "Ground Hog Day" with Bill Murray.

It is actually getting to the point where it is humorous.

Bottom line, we can argue for months but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

These discussions are becoming counterproductive and polarizing.

At least this will be the last Arians debate.

Until the next OC is hired.

GBMelBlount
01-27-2012, 03:05 PM
At least this will be the last Arians debate.

Until the next OC is hired.

I can hardly wait. :grin:

suitanim
01-27-2012, 03:30 PM
That's really what my point is now.

Arians is gone. The countdown until all the people who think THEY know how to REALLY run an NFL offense start in with the ludicrous hindsight is on. 6 months and counting...

This will never change. But I'll definitely continue to support the OC, whoever he may be, even if he DOES revert us back to a simple run-first offense.

The simpler the offense, though, the closer to the point of comprehension it will move towards the pitchfork and torches crowd...so their critiques will fall a little more in-line with reality.

tube517
01-27-2012, 03:35 PM
Coming to Steelers Universe the past few days reminds of the movie "Ground Hog Day" with Bill Murray.

It is actually getting to the point where it is humorous (At least to me - lol).

Bottom line, we can argue for months but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

These discussions are becoming counterproductive and polarizing.

I agree. I can't wait for the draft. Really tired of the whole Arians debate. :yawn:

suitanim
01-27-2012, 03:50 PM
I agree. I can't wait for the draft. Really tired of the whole Arians debate. :yawn:

Passions run deep. It's a 5-year-old argument, so there are entrenched views. Arians was basically screwed from the start because he was a guy with a pass-first mentality (which is obviously where the league was headed) and change scares people. It's not something that can just be "let go of" overnight.

Count Steeler
01-27-2012, 05:30 PM
Wait till the new OC is hired. Round 2, or is that Round 15 of the ongoing Arians Saga.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2012, 05:35 PM
We did run it 18 times. Not sure exactly what the splits were. For a game where we were trailing and had to pass late, that isn't too bad.

Chidi, it wasnt that long ago and we can remember the game cant we. Ben was not able to mechanically throw the ball well with his injury and the Steelers have not had a decent run game for a few years. Blame the O line, Blame the Front office, Blame the OC, Blame Mendenhall. I dont care.

I just think if the Steelers had a better run game offensively, that it creates mismatches in the passing game. We lost to Denver on that final play with 9 men in the box to defend the run. I honestly cant remember the last time a team put 8 in the box against the Steelers Offense.

You can cite stats or run/pass ratios all you want, but the simple fact remains that the Steelers have not had a run game because their offensive identity has changed. Art Rooney obviously felt that needed to change, so he is the chief hater and what is done is done.

I look forward to moving forward, despite being amused by all the gnashing of teeth and exploding heads of the defenders of Fort Arians. The draft is almost upon us. Peace, out.

Chidi29
01-27-2012, 08:44 PM
Chidi, it wasnt that long ago and we can remember the game cant we. Ben was not able to mechanically throw the ball well with his injury and the Steelers have not had a decent run game for a few years. Blame the O line, Blame the Front office, Blame the OC, Blame Mendenhall. I dont care.

I just think if the Steelers had a better run game offensively, that it creates mismatches in the passing game. We lost to Denver on that final play with 9 men in the box to defend the run. I honestly cant remember the last time a team put 8 in the box against the Steelers Offense.

You can cite stats or run/pass ratios all you want, but the simple fact remains that the Steelers have not had a run game because their offensive identity has changed. Art Rooney obviously felt that needed to change, so he is the chief hater and what is done is done.

I look forward to moving forward, despite being amused by all the gnashing of teeth and exploding heads of the defenders of Fort Arians. The draft is almost upon us. Peace, out.

Sure, the running game can improve. It always can improve. And it does create mismatches, especially with the speed we have at WR. Of course, there's other ways to do it too and the league is evolving to the point where you can create mismatches without a running game. Go 5 WR and pit your slot WR against their nickelback or linebacker if they're in man, or have so many players out there that someone will find a hole in zone.

I do think we ran the ball more effectively this year than in past seasons. And a lot of credit goes to the backs and the line for doing what they could in a bad situation (it doesn't automatically go to Arians, that would be hypocritical of me). You can disagree, but Arians responded to Rooney's request to run the ball better. And to do it in a year with a ton of turmoil along the line.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2012, 09:11 PM
Then Chidi, as the title of this thread reads, its just time for a change and Art decided that on a whim. Later Bruce, cant wait to see you head coach a team to greatness, as it is your destiny.

NCSteeler
01-28-2012, 12:40 AM
They were 7th overall on 3rd downs last season, which isn't too bad at all: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/thirdDownConvPct

We were quite good in short yardage, just not goal to go short yardage.

ALLD
01-28-2012, 06:33 AM
BA was not as good as Whiz as an OC. End of argument.

zulater
01-28-2012, 07:01 AM
BA was not as good as Whiz as an OC. End of argument.

Agreed. And as I've said about 50 times before, while I didn't post with most of the people on this board during Whisenhunt's time in Pittsburgh, I did post on several Steelers message board's. And to the best of my recall he was generally viewed favorably, and I remember people worrying that he would be poached for a head coaching job every offseason.

Obviously there was an occasional dissenting voice. But in all honesty even when the Steelers had a sub par season in 2006 I don't remember any great plurality of outrage over the job Whisenhunt did.

I'll tell you this much, anyone who thinks Arians advanced this offense leaps and bounds should go to the Steelers website and purshase the DVD set, "Road to XL". The offensive game plans that were put into place and executed for that 4 game playoff run haven't been approximated since for any stretch of games against quality opposition.

Bottom line, Whiz was better, and Steeler fans didn't often bitch about the sort of job he did. That wasn't coincidental either.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-28-2012, 08:28 AM
Bottom line, Whiz was better, and Steeler fans didn't often bitch about the sort of job he did. That wasn't coincidental either.

Where did Mularkey fit in that scale? Was he better or worse than either of the last 2 OC's in your opinion?

GBMelBlount
01-28-2012, 08:32 AM
I'm sorry, but there is no "spin" or mental gymnastics the haters can bring to bear that will refute the FACT, the stone-cold, iron-clad lock of a FACT that Rooney LIED ABOUT THIS!

He said it was Tomlin's call. It clearly and obviously wasn't. Now he's trying to pooh-pooh it and claim that "the process isn't relevant".

This is dangerous ground for the Steelers. You can scare away talent if what you say isn't really what you say.

It's a slippery slope to start obfuscating your position, or placing the blame on others instead of manning up and taking responsibility.

He SHOULD have just said it was his call all the way.

Agreed. If this becomes a pattern then I completely understand your point.

Otherwise, at this point I simply look at it as a business owner who felt strongly enough about this matter that they exercised their right to make the final decision.

zulater
01-28-2012, 09:20 AM
Where did Mularkey fit in that scale? Was he better or worse than either of the last 2 OC's in your opinion?

I'd put Mularkey even with Arains. Both behind Whisenhunt.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-28-2012, 09:55 AM
I'd put Mularkey even with Arains. Both behind Whisenhunt. Yeah, I just dont remember Mularkey being as polarizing a figure as Arians with the fan base.

zulater
01-28-2012, 09:57 AM
Just to touch a little more on the Arains- Whisenhunt comparison. Look at the comparative talent between the 2005 offense and either of the last 2 seasons, and the 2005 offense comes out on the short end of the stick way more often than not talent wise.

Here's a quick breakdown.

QB. 2005. Second year Big Ben. 2010-11. 8th year Big Ben advantage Arains.

RB. 2005. Willie Parker, Jerome Bettis, Duce Staley 10-11. Mendenhall, Redman, Moore. Even

FB 2005 Dan Kreider 10-11 David Johnson? Advantage Whiz, but only because Arains places no value on the position.

Wr. 2005 Hines Ward, Cedric Wilson, Antoine Randle El , Quincy Morgan. 10-11 Mike Wallace, Antoine Brown, Hines Ward, Emanuel Sanders. Huge advantage Arains

TE. 2005 rookie Heath Miller 10-11 seasoned Heath Miller, advantage Arains.

C. 2005 Jeff Hartings 10-11 Maurkice Pouncey even

LT. 2005 Marvel Smith 10-11. Max Starks. Before anyone pronounces this a big win for 05, keep in mind that Marvel Smith missed 4 starts and was replaced in the lineup by rookie Trai Essex. The Steelers went 3-1 in those starts. that said advantage Whiz.

LG. 2005 Alan Faneca 10-11 Moron wearing #68 Kemopenalizeu. Big AD Whiz!

RG. 2005 Kendall Simmons 10-11 Ramon Foster. slight ad Arains.

RT. 2005 Max Starks 10-11 Flozell Adams- Marcus Gilbert. even.

One last thing, with a quarterback with limited experience in 6 playoff games Whisenhunt's offense averaged 348 yards in 6 playoff games. With an experienced quarterback Arains led offense's averaged 323 yards in 8 playoff games.


Whiz did more with less. Clear winner!

zulater
01-28-2012, 09:59 AM
Yeah, I just dont remember Mularkey being as polarizing a figure as Arians with the fan base.

In 2003 he was. Maybe not the whole season, but after passing the ball about 60 times with Tommy Maddox in blizzard in the Meadowlands his stock took a rapid dip. :chuckle:

X-Terminator
01-28-2012, 12:41 PM
BA was not as good as Whiz as an OC. End of argument.

I doubt many people would disagree with that. I certainly don't. I'd take Whiz over BA 10 out of 10 times.

stillers4me
01-28-2012, 12:51 PM
Don't shoot the messenger. I don't writem'. I just copy and paste'em. :lol:

Mike Jurecki@mikejurecki (Jurecki@mikejurecki)Hearing former Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians is likely to become the next coordinator of the Colts. #colts (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/search?q=%23colts) #steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/search?q=%23steelers)

polamalubeast
01-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Don't shoot the messenger. I don't writem'. I just copy and paste'em. :lol:

Mike Jurecki@mikejurecki (Jurecki@mikejurecki)Hearing former Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians is likely to become the next coordinator of the Colts. #colts (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/search?q=%23colts) #steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/search?q=%23steelers)

bye bye Peyton

Count Steeler
01-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Great news for Bruce. Now he can coach a real quarterback. :sarcasm:

ALLD
01-28-2012, 12:59 PM
I can already hear the Manning's tires peeling to get out of Indy. If he were to ever play again, I bet Manning tells BA to plug-in an ipod instead of a headset on gameday and just watch. I am no fan of P Manning, but I know he knows more about NFL offensive football than BA.

O'Malley
01-28-2012, 01:08 PM
Peyton can't get sacked 40 times a season.. He would be in the hospital after week one..

polamalubeast
01-28-2012, 01:16 PM
Peyton can't get sacked 40 times a season.. He would be in the hospital after week one..

Luck will be the QB of the Colts in 2012!


Manning will be in another team

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-28-2012, 02:28 PM
This should be good. Congrats to the colts

GBMelBlount
01-28-2012, 02:37 PM
Congrats to Arians!

I am sure he will be well liked by the coaches and players in Indy.

Hopefully he will have success as a coach too....

GBMelBlount
01-28-2012, 02:40 PM
I can already hear the Manning's tires peeling to get out of Indy .

Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaa! :rofl2:

:car:

Bluecoat96
01-28-2012, 02:55 PM
I can already hear the Manning's tires peeling to get out of Indy. If he were to ever play again, I bet Manning tells BA to plug-in an ipod instead of a headset on gameday and just watch. I am no fan of P Manning, but I know he knows more about NFL offensive football than BA.

I don't know. Manning and BA have some strong ties to each other. It'll be interesting to say the least.

BlastFurnace
01-28-2012, 03:20 PM
If Manning is still playing...Arians is still not the OC. Manning always has run that offense.

polamalubeast
01-28-2012, 03:26 PM
If Manning is still playing...Arians is still not the OC. Manning always has run that offense.

Manning will not be with the Colts in 2012.I'm sure.

Andrew Luck will be the QB of the Colts.

NCSteeler
01-28-2012, 06:54 PM
Mularkey and Whiz both had the advantage of coaching with much better lines then we have now, but they also had something else BA has never had....creativity. And yes in his final year Mularkey wasn't well thought of by many fans.

Also, I'm glad BA got another job, I'm sure the colts will be offensive powerhouse for years to come. Him coaching a young Peyton Manning probably has a lot to do with him being brought in to coach a young Luck. I still think giving BA too much credit for Mannings progression is like blaming who ever was Ryan Leaf's QB coach for his spiral of suck.

suitanim
01-29-2012, 07:55 AM
Manning gets rid of the ball faster than any other QB in the NFL. He'd be fine under Arians.

Count Steeler
01-29-2012, 08:52 AM
Manning gets rid of the ball faster than any other QB in the NFL. He'd be fine under Arians.

So Ben IS the problem with Arian's offense.

Steeldude
01-29-2012, 09:10 AM
Manning gets rid of the ball faster than any other QB in the NFL. He'd be fine under Arians.

which again shows arians did not call plays based on what the players can do well. hmmm...that was brought up by the so-called haters many times

Steeldude
01-29-2012, 09:12 AM
So Ben IS the problem with Arian's offense.

didn't you know? it's the fault of everyone, but arians.

polamalubeast
01-29-2012, 09:14 AM
Manning gets rid of the ball faster than any other QB in the NFL. He'd be fine under Arians.


Manning will soon be released.Luck will be the QB of the Colts.


http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/1/28/2755307/report-colts-will-release-peyton-manning-made-decision-weeks-ago

SMR
01-29-2012, 10:01 AM
Manning will soon be released.Luck will be the QB of the Colts.


http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/1/28/2755307/report-colts-will-release-peyton-manning-made-decision-weeks-ago

I'll believe it when I see it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-29-2012, 10:31 AM
I'll believe it when I see it. give it about 3 weeks.

Chidi29
01-29-2012, 01:09 PM
Good luck Bruce! Glad you got another job.

GBMelBlount
01-29-2012, 01:20 PM
So Ben IS the problem with Arian's offense.

I think he probably is part of the problem. He holds onto the ball too long some times....and the poor offensive line magnifies the problem.

Any way you look at it it is hard to prove / determine exactly how much is or isn't Arians fault...which is why there is so much controversy imo.