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View Full Version : Steelers expected to fill OC vacancy with in-house candidate



polamalubeast
01-23-2012, 02:15 PM
The Pittsburgh Steelers likely will promote from within to fill their offensive coordinator vacancy, league sources said Monday.

The two top candidates in that case would be quarterbacks coach Randy Fichtner and offensive line coach Sean Kugler, sources said, as the Steelers' other offensive position coaches are less experienced.

Fichtner has coached quarterbacks and receivers for the Steelers in two stints with the team and spent the last five years in Pittsburgh. He also helped implement the spread offense at the University of Memphis.

The Steelers need an offensive coordinator after Bruce Arians decided to retire last week, although a league source said Saturday that the coach was told his contract wouldn't be renewed.

Follow Jason La Canfora on Twitter @jasonlacanfora .

http://wap.nfl.com/news/09000d5d8264111b/steelers-expected-to-fill-oc-vacancy-with-inhouse-candidate/

XxKnightxX
01-23-2012, 02:30 PM
EYE think Jason has a pretty good hunch. But Id rather keep Kugler with the big uglies, Fitchner would be a better fit.

NJarhead
01-23-2012, 02:34 PM
Definitely need to keep Kugler in some way, shape or form, but I'm not sure I want a spread offense guy.

fansince'76
01-23-2012, 02:36 PM
Uh-oh - lot of people are gonna be unhappy about this if true...

XxKnightxX
01-23-2012, 02:51 PM
Definitely need to keep Kugler in some way, shape or form, but I'm not sure I want a spread offense guy.

Isnt that the offense Ben ran when he was at Miami?

smokin3000gt
01-23-2012, 02:59 PM
I'm not real excited about that news TBO. I was hoping for someone good from the outside, not "ahh we think this guy can get it done".

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 03:00 PM
I'd say Fichtner gets the job since he has OC experience. But the spread offense? No thanks. I don't want them to go back to running all the time...I don't want them to go to the other extreme either. Implement the New Orleans Saints offense, and I'm happy.

Godfather
01-23-2012, 03:07 PM
If the QB coach gets promoted, does Old Man Batch take over as quarterbacks coach?

st33lersguy
01-23-2012, 03:12 PM
We need a fresh face, an outside guy. If we stay within the organization, we could be stuck with the same incoherent messes Arians put together and called an offensive gameplan. I am afraid Arians had too much influence over other offensive coaches

smokin3000gt
01-23-2012, 04:14 PM
Does anyone see any good to hiring either one of the existing coaches? I don't know know why we don't go with a more experienced OC. I cringe at chewing up a few more of Ben's (not to mention some of the other vets) good years while we wait out the learning curve.

suitanim
01-23-2012, 04:22 PM
Suddenly I'm losing faith in the FO. A team that's Hallmark has been (for the most part) making almost always really wise decisions seems to be losing it's collective mind all at once.

The ONLY good that might come out of this is retaining the offense, instead of scrapping it. It doesn't matter a lick if the fans understand this or not, but when you have a 5-year-old very complex offensive system and you scrap it, you will necessarily be stuck running something dumbed down from that for at least a couple years. The worst-case-scenario here is scrapping the offense and promoting an unknown entity from within who lacks experience. Then we have a new guy running a new offense that is untried and untested.

Shoes
01-23-2012, 04:29 PM
Maybe Moms Mabley will run the O.

Shoes
01-23-2012, 04:35 PM
.................................

fansince'76
01-23-2012, 04:56 PM
None of the existing coaches! They all have the "taint" of Arians on them! :chuckle:

Steeldude
01-23-2012, 05:25 PM
if the rooneys want more emphasis on the running game then why go with fitchner?

SteelerFanInStl
01-23-2012, 05:41 PM
Can't say that I'm excited about that news. I'd rather see an outside hire.

Carolina Steelers
01-23-2012, 05:46 PM
Yeah this isnt good news i also thought we would hire from the outside with some fresh views on offense. But you never know.

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 06:01 PM
Hiring Fichtner doesn't mean he's going to implement the spread. That works in the college game, I'm sure he realizes he can't/won't do the same in the NFL.

SteelGhost
01-23-2012, 07:43 PM
Uh-oh - lot of people are gonna be unhappy about this if true...

Almost all the Nation won't be happy with ANY new OC ... :sarcasm:

GBMelBlount
01-23-2012, 07:54 PM
if the rooneys want more emphasis on the running game then why go with fitchner?

Does an offensive coach REALLY have to "specialize" in the running game if the Steelers choose to emphasize it?

86WARD
01-23-2012, 09:50 PM
I'd say Fichtner gets the job since he has OC experience. But the spread offense? No thanks. I don't want them to go back to running all the time...I don't want them to go to the other extreme either. Implement the New Orleans Saints offense, and I'm happy.
+1

86WARD
01-23-2012, 09:51 PM
Hiring Fichtner doesn't mean he's going to implement the spread. That works in the college game, I'm sure he realizes he can't/won't do the same in the NFL.

Seemed to work for Peyton Manning...lol. The offense he runs is pretty much nothing but the spread.

BTW - emphasizing the run is a thing of the past in this day and age. It's a passing league. If you are emphasizing the run, you're not really doing all that great...

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 09:57 PM
Seemed to work for Peyton Manning...lol. The offense he runs is pretty much nothing but the spread.

BTW - emphasizing the run is a thing of the past in this day and age. It's a passing league. If you are emphasizing the run, you're not really doing all that great...

The spread meaning running zone option plays. We won't do that.

86WARD
01-23-2012, 10:00 PM
We "can't" do that...lol.

NCSteeler
01-24-2012, 12:23 AM
Suddenly I'm losing faith in the FO. A team that's Hallmark has been (for the most part) making almost always really wise decisions seems to be losing it's collective mind all at once.

The ONLY good that might come out of this is retaining the offense, instead of scrapping it. It doesn't matter a lick if the fans understand this or not, but when you have a 5-year-old very complex offensive system and you scrap it, you will necessarily be stuck running something dumbed down from that for at least a couple years. The worst-case-scenario here is scrapping the offense and promoting an unknown entity from within who lacks experience. Then we have a new guy running a new offense that is untried and untested.

i'd love to see your data on how long it takes a team to implement a new O you constantly bring up a set back and now you've gone to dumbed down for a year or TWO, seriously many teams make changes all the time without huge set backs, hell our very own team has had grand success with first year coordinators.

I'm not sure if it would better going outside or not. The guys we have are familiar with the players strengths weaknesses and personalities. Hell they could even keep the same offense and just call it better and it would be an improvement.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-24-2012, 01:00 AM
Funny, Peter King was hinting towards Jim Caldwell because both he and Tomlin coached together at Tampa. Others point to Haley or Clements for their connections to the Burgh and now suddenly Kugler has his name in the hat.

I wont believe it until Rob Lowe tweets it.

Steeldude
01-24-2012, 05:20 AM
Does an offensive coach REALLY have to "specialize" in the running game if the Steelers choose to emphasize it?

nope, but it would be nice to see someone with experience in the running game rather than an inexperienced college OC who ran the spread.

Iron Steeler
01-24-2012, 05:33 AM
We never know guys
.
Remember the head coach race. We all thought it was a two horse race with Ron rivera and Ken whisenhunt. And then they went with some guy name Mike tomlin ...

suitanim
01-24-2012, 09:25 AM
i'd love to see your data on how long it takes a team to implement a new O you constantly bring up a set back and now you've gone to dumbed down for a year or TWO, seriously many teams make changes all the time without huge set backs, hell our very own team has had grand success with first year coordinators.

I'm not sure if it would better going outside or not. The guys we have are familiar with the players strengths weaknesses and personalities. Hell they could even keep the same offense and just call it better and it would be an improvement.

Some NFL playbooks are 700-800 pages long. Do you honestly think that a system that has been implemented for 5 years is going to equally or less complex than a brand new system? Do you think that a system that's been run for 1 year will have MORE plays or LESS plays that can and will actually be called during a game than an offense that's been in place for 5 years?

The FACT is, if we bring in a new offensive coordinator and he runs a new offense, there is going to be a learning curve, and the steepness will depend on the complexity of it coupled with just how different it is from the current system. If we KEEP the current offense, and just let someone else call the plays, we will be in better shape. The only problem we have with the offense now is that Arians offense is a little more complex then some, especially for the WR's, because his offense is predicated upon slower developing and complex crossing routes in order for the WR's to get open, which, obviously, he has attentuated some over the years due to the poor pass blocking of the OL.

The fact is, if we kept the same offense, hired a new OC, and Araisn SECRETLY kept calling the plays next year, the haters would be happy, because it isn't about the playcalling, it's become about the playcaller.

Godfather
01-24-2012, 10:50 AM
Some NFL playbooks are 700-800 pages long. Do you honestly think that a system that has been implemented for 5 years is going to equally or less complex than a brand new system? Do you think that a system that's been run for 1 year will have MORE plays or LESS plays that can and will actually be called during a game than an offense that's been in place for 5 years?


The learning curve isn't quite as steep as you might think.

Here's a good example: They did a scientific study a few years ago where people looked at a chessboard for one minute, then had to recreate what they saw on a blank chessboard. When the pieces were placed randomly, chessmasters did only slightly better than regular people. But when it was a snapshot from a real game, chessmasters did far better than everyone else. The reason is that the random chessboard was just a black pawn on this square, a white rook on that square, etc. But with the game situation, the chessmasters immediately recognized certain groupings and patterns, so they processed the information in larger blocks.

The same would apply to an NFL playbook. It's not 700 pages of plays if you're a professional player because you understand the structure and the language. The average fan can't remember a ten-word-long name for a play, but a quarterback instantly understands that means a certain formation with the receivers running certain routes, and a lot of the plays are just slight variations on other plays.

Steeldude
01-24-2012, 10:51 AM
Do you think that a system that's been run for 1 year will have MORE plays or LESS plays that can and will actually be called during a game than an offense that's been in place for 5 years?

because what arians called was so diverse...lol. what did he call....7 different plays? :grin:



The fact is, if we kept the same offense, hired a new OC, and Araisn SECRETLY kept calling the plays next year, the haters would be happy

you mean the blind lovers would be happy. the lovers absolutely adore a poor red zone offense. the fact is if the new OC fails the arians mistresses will be overjoyed.


slower developing and complex crossing routes in order for the WR's to get open

see how arians was bad for the team? the steelers have a poor to average O-line, but the brilliant arians calls for slow developing plays. i believe that has been pointed out numerous times by the so-called haters. thanks for confirming it.

Dino 6 Rings
01-24-2012, 11:05 AM
Suddenly I'm losing faith in the FO. A team that's Hallmark has been (for the most part) making almost always really wise decisions seems to be losing it's collective mind all at once.

HA HA HA! So they that the FO Disagrees with you, you doubt them!

Hilarious!

GBMelBlount
01-24-2012, 11:07 AM
The learning curve isn't quite as steep as you might think.

Here's a good example: They did a scientific study a few years ago where people looked at a chessboard for one minute, then had to recreate what they saw on a blank chessboard. When the pieces were placed randomly, chessmasters did only slightly better than regular people. But when it was a snapshot from a real game, chessmasters did far better than everyone else. The reason is that the random chessboard was just a black pawn on this square, a white rook on that square, etc. But with the game situation, the chessmasters immediately recognized certain groupings and patterns, so they processed the information in larger blocks.

The same would apply to an NFL playbook. It's not 700 pages of plays if you're a professional player because you understand the structure and the language. The average fan can't remember a ten-word-long name for a play, but a quarterback instantly understands that means a certain formation with the receivers running certain routes, and a lot of the plays are just slight variations on other plays.

Excellent point.

I know when I am learning about something completely knew it can be overwhelming but if I know 80% of it already the other 20% is much easier to learn, understand and retain because it interrelates in a meaningful way with the the 80% I already knew.

LLT
01-24-2012, 11:12 AM
Seemed to work for Peyton Manning...lol. The offense he runs is pretty much nothing but the spread.

BTW - emphasizing the run is a thing of the past in this day and age. It's a passing league. If you are emphasizing the run, you're not really doing all that great...

Except that this is a league of "cycles".....someone tries a "new" or "different" offense/defense and when they become successful at it, the rest of the league starts to emulate it. All the defenses in the league are being built to stop the pass.....it wont be long until someone comes up with a way to take advantage of this with some type of running game.

LLT
01-24-2012, 11:26 AM
The learning curve isn't quite as steep as you might think.

Here's a good example: They did a scientific study a few years ago where people looked at a chessboard for one minute, then had to recreate what they saw on a blank chessboard. When the pieces were placed randomly, chessmasters did only slightly better than regular people. But when it was a snapshot from a real game, chessmasters did far better than everyone else. The reason is that the random chessboard was just a black pawn on this square, a white rook on that square, etc. But with the game situation, the chessmasters immediately recognized certain groupings and patterns, so they processed the information in larger blocks.

The same would apply to an NFL playbook. It's not 700 pages of plays if you're a professional player because you understand the structure and the language. The average fan can't remember a ten-word-long name for a play, but a quarterback instantly understands that means a certain formation with the receivers running certain routes, and a lot of the plays are just slight variations on other plays.

You are exactly right.

For an example ....Once a WR learns, (for examples sake)....10 pass plays ....then you add the passing tree to EACH of those plays... (9 routes to each pass play)...you already have 90 potential plays.

For instance: the call is a right side banana bunch, The X reciever will have the potential to run that ONE FORMATION (according to the SPECIFIC call) as a "right side banana bunch" hitch...quick out...slant...hook...in...out...up...corner...or post.

These recievers have known the passing tree since they were 8-9 years old in some instances....they already recognize the patterns....and the learning curve is cut down.

X-Terminator
01-24-2012, 11:40 AM
Plus, the learning curve gets cut down because of OTAs and mini-camps. If the new OC implements a new scheme, he'll use that time to go over the playbook so that when the players come back for training camp, they are ready to go.

Steeldude
01-24-2012, 11:52 AM
HA HA HA! So now that the FO Disagrees with you, you doubt them!

Hilarious!

funny how that works with suitanim. sort of like when he said tony hills is the starting RG. it didn't sit well with him when he was cut.

LLT
01-24-2012, 11:58 AM
funny how that works with suitanim. sort of like when he said tony hills is the starting RG. it didn't sit well with him when he was cut.

Dont make it personal.....you guys know the drill.

suitanim
01-24-2012, 12:26 PM
I can see that one post, so I'm going to comment on it.

We cut Hills........then had problems at OG all year. He looked pretty good in preseason. The FO made a mistake IMO, there...but I'm an asshole I guess because I complained about it then and still complain about it now. WTF ever...

President of the braintrust there...

I'm sorry, but I gotta speak up here about something else, because people are confusing understanding playbooks with mastering an offensive strategy. Even Al Saunders playbook, the gold standard for NFL OC playbooks could probably be taught to an NFL player in a couple hours. But actually putting the plays into practice is a different animal altogether.

Take the West Coast offense. We do not run a WCO, but there certainly could be an OC brought in who does run it. I mean, Walsh to Seifert to Shanahan to Holmgren to Gruden....there has been quite a bit of success in the league running the WCO. The 49ers ran it last year, and they will get better at it in the next 2-3 years as they master it.

Anyway, if you have WR's who have 3-4 options on each passing play, and the majority of the routes are being run in the 5-15 yard range, the QB and WR better be on the same page. Plus everything is timing. Not only is there risk when QB thinks one thing and WR thinks another, the QB also better be throwing accurately, because he's throwing to a spot, and not a man. Does anyone in their right mind think that if we switched to the WCO that our backs, WR's and QB would master it in one year? I'm telling you, it'd be 2-3 years before everyone was on the same page, and the OC would have been CRUCIFIED long before that because of the learning curve and growing pains.

I don't think we'll go that direction, but I also hope we don't dumb down our offense so much we start running Tebow's garbage High School read option, either.

Austin87
01-24-2012, 01:44 PM
We cut Hills........then had problems at OG all year. He looked pretty good in preseason. The FO made a mistake IMO, there...but I'm an asshole I guess because I complained about it then and still complain about it now. WTF ever...


Got to agree with you here. I remember Hills looked surprisingly good in preseason and got cut. I couldn't understand it then and after the problems we had with the O-line and especially at the guard position I still don't know why he didn't even make the team after doing so well?

BlastFurnace
01-24-2012, 02:18 PM
Got to agree with you here. I remember Hills looked surprisingly good in preseason and got cut. I couldn't understand it then and after the problems we had with the O-line and especially at the guard position I still don't know why he didn't even make the team after doing so well?

It's the same coaching staff that didn't feel we needed Starks and gave Urbik only one year to develop before cutting him.

fansince'76
01-24-2012, 02:19 PM
It's the same coaching staff that didn't feel we needed Starks and gave Urbik only one year to develop before cutting him.

Starks reported to camp 50+ pounds overweight...

BlastFurnace
01-24-2012, 02:28 PM
Starks reported to camp 50+ pounds overweight...

I know, but it's been reported that the coaching staff didn't like Max for years before that.

O'Malley
01-24-2012, 03:19 PM
Plus, the learning curve gets cut down because of OTAs and mini-camps. If the new OC implements a new scheme, he'll use that time to go over the playbook so that when the players come back for training camp, they are ready to go.

You think not having a OTAs mini-camps kept Arians around an extra year? Maybe, had they had time to introduce a new OC and implement his new approach Arians would'nt have been the OC this year? I don't think they just came up with the decision not to renew his contract at the end of the season.. IMO they would have let him go if they had time for transition before the season started... Arians success has deminished, and his obvious and predictable calls have been the norm for a few years... Without the stellar defense behind the offense they wouldn't have made the playoffs let alone win two titles. I think Rooney was tired of having all these shiny toys and paying all this money for them to be so ineffective.. Especially in the Red Zone.. I know plenty of people like Bruce and deflect much of the blame away from him.. But there has to be accountability, he was the OC and if the offense was inept in the Red Zone it was his job to fix it.. Never did.. From the 20 to the 20 Bruce was a "wizard", but you have to be able to call plays that result in Red Zone touch downs, not field goal attempts.. Just as an example in Denver Heath was catching short slant passses and getting good YAC.. Saw that play three times and it worked all three times... Yet didn't see it the rest of the game.. It's things like that that confused me about Bruce... Sometimes it seemed Bruce was fooling nobody but himself, and over thought a ton of calls.. Like in the running game off tackle gains 20 yards then 15 and then the rest of the game he tries to run up the gut, if it's working stick with it until the opponent can stop it... I am glad to see him go.. It is time for a new OC.. Give the offense a fresh look and IMO will be a good thing..

suitanim
01-24-2012, 04:39 PM
We went 12-4 this year, people.

We were a DEFENSIVE COLLAPSE (remember Average Joe Flacco shredding our D for 92 yards with 1:30 left to beat us?) away from 13-3 and homefield throughout. We were a great team at home this year, pretty shitty on the road. Things would be very, very different if we won that game.

So these conspiracy theories that we were going to fire Arians after we lost the Super Bowl are almost (but not quite) as ridiculous as the wild and ignorant speculation that this was a conspiracy to hold the Rooney's hostage for a raise.

O'Malley
01-24-2012, 05:41 PM
We went 12-4 this year, people.

We were a DEFENSIVE COLLAPSE (remember Average Joe Flacco shredding our D for 92 yards with 1:30 left to beat us?) away from 13-3 and homefield throughout. We were a great team at home this year, pretty shitty on the road. Things would be very, very different if we won that game.

So these conspiracy theories that we were going to fire Arians after we lost the Super Bowl are almost (but not quite) as ridiculous as the wild and ignorant speculation that this was a conspiracy to hold the Rooney's hostage for a raise.

Dang Suit give it a rest, he is gone... Rightfully so IMO... Accountability is the main factor.. He was the OC, he called the plays.. He couldn't call the right plays in the Red Zone... Obviously he wasn't the right man for the job anymore.. The Steelers don't fire coaches on a whim, there is always a reason... With a weak O-Line he should have been able to call short routes and get the ball out quickly.. Instead he called slow developing plays 15-25 yards down field... Never went with what was working and is going to be somewhere else because of it. I know you think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he was an average OC for five years.. Never really pushed the offense to the next level.. Never put his stamp on the offense, hense we had an offense with no identity.. IMO he would have been gone if they had OTAs and mini-camps, due to the team having time to adjust and gel before the season began.. That is my opinion and "ignorant" or not it's my view.. You can have yours , and I'll have mine... Rooney gave him another year to prove him wrong then gave him the boot... A decision you'll have to live with, and a decision I think was the right one.. Until I'm proven wrong I'll stand by the decision.. I can't see anybody worse stepping in as an OC.. I think this will have a possitive effect on the offense and finally you'll see what we've been mising the last five seasons.. I am looking at this as a step forward and a step in the right direction.. You may see it as a step back and Arians was not the problem, it was players or Rooney or Tomlin.. If your an OC and you run the offense, then if it is not living up to its potiential who else should take the blame? At some point it has to be the man behind the head set... As for "ignorant" "conspiracy theories" Ben must have called all the plays that didn't work as you put it... I'm not saying Bruce didn't have some good game plans, I'm saying more often then not he stuck with a bad one and kept doing the same things that weren't working without making adjustments... Had the offense been more productive in both Ravens games it could have been a different story.. With the same ending.. They were to hurt to make a Super Bowl push this year... Home field advantage or not.. Mainly due to Bens injury caused by a weak offensive line and slow devoloping play calling.. You can have your view and I'll have mine.. Which is, I'm happy to see Arians leave and excited to see who replaces him and how well he does.

Chidi29
01-24-2012, 06:05 PM
That's where you're wrong O'Malley. Arians and the Steelers did a fine job in the red zone for half of the season, But because of Ben's injury, the lockout, and turnovers (the correlation is obvious) the red zone offense struggled. When none of those things were in effect, we were a top 5 offense. Everyone should be happy to have that.

O'Malley
01-24-2012, 06:21 PM
That's where you're wrong O'Malley. Arians and the Steelers did a fine job in the red zone for half of the season, But because of Ben's injury, the lockout, and turnovers (the correlation is obvious) the red zone offense struggled. When none of those things were in effect, we were a top 5 offense. Everyone should be happy to have that.Steelers' NFL offensive rankings under Bruce Arians
YEAR=TOTAL YARDS=SCORING
2007=17th=tie 9th (24.6 ppg)
2008=22nd=20th (21.7 ppg)
2009=7th=12th (23.0 ppg)
2010=14th=12th (23.4 ppg)
2011=12th=21st (20.3 ppg)

This was the end product... Obviously your happy with it.

Chidi29
01-24-2012, 07:51 PM
Steelers' NFL offensive rankings under Bruce Arians
YEAR=TOTAL YARDS=SCORING
2007=17th=tie 9th (24.6 ppg)
2008=22nd=20th (21.7 ppg)
2009=7th=12th (23.0 ppg)
2010=14th=12th (23.4 ppg)
2011=12th=21st (20.3 ppg)

This was the end product... Obviously your happy with it.

And you didn't listen to my argument. Arians certainly showed for a loong period of time this season what the offense can do. Other factors out of his control prevented the offense from doing so all year.

O'Malley
01-24-2012, 08:49 PM
And you didn't listen to my argument. Arians certainly showed for a loong period of time this season what the offense can do. Other factors out of his control prevented the offense from doing so all year.

That is where having the ability to adjust comes in to play.. You have to find another way to get the job done.. If you have a bad O-Line it doesn't make sense to try and stretch te field, knowing the result will most likely end with a sack.. When Ben was getting hit every time he dropped back for 6 weeks straight you'd think you would figure out a way to get the recievers the ball and keep Ben clean.. Other then the bubble screen everybody in the stands and watching at home let alone the defense knew was coming.. Wallace gets 10 yards of free space every down. How about some dig routes, slants, something besides run really fast and we throw it really far.. Take adbvantage of the space .. Then make them pay.. It's simple stuff and adjustments that he never made.. I must be the only person who thinks this way.. Besides the FO of course... Five years and the offense still stalls at the 10 yard line.. That spells to me time for a change and a different OC.

Chidi29
01-24-2012, 08:58 PM
That is where having the ability to adjust comes in to play.. You have to find another way to get the job done.. If you have a bad O-Line it doesn't make sense to try and stretch te field, knowing the result will most likely end with a sack.. When Ben was getting hit every time he dropped back for 6 weeks straight you'd think you would figure out a way to get the recievers the ball and keep Ben clean.. Other then the bubble screen everybody in the stands and watching at home let alone the defense knew was coming.. Wallace gets 10 yards of free space every down. How about some dig routes, slants, something besides run really fast and we throw it really far.. Take adbvantage of the space .. Then make them pay.. It's simple stuff and adjustments that he never made.. I must be the only person who thinks this way.. Besides the FO of course... Five years and the offense still stalls at the 10 yard line.. That spells to me time for a change and a different OC.

Having a bad offensive line really limits you since it's a central point of everything you do. It's not something you can really avoid.

Ben really wasn't hit any more often during that time than any other.

Bubble screens work well. They are good for a few yards and have the potential to go for a big play because we have so many YAC guys.

Our receivers constantly run the whole route tree. Wallace has run a ton of sltants and we're always using players on crossing routes. There's nothing wrong with using our speed and stretching the field as either window dressing to open up underneath routes or create chunk yardage by completing long passes.

O'Malley
01-24-2012, 09:10 PM
Having a bad offensive line really limits you since it's a central point of everything you do. It's not something you can really avoid.

Ben really wasn't hit any more often during that time than any other.

Bubble screens work well. They are good for a few yards and have the potential to go for a big play because we have so many YAC guys.

Our receivers constantly run the whole route tree. Wallace has run a ton of sltants and we're always using players on crossing routes. There's nothing wrong with using our speed and stretching the field as either window dressing to open up underneath routes or create chunk yardage by completing long passes.

Your absolutly right... That is why Bruce still has his job because it all worked so well.. Give me a break... The reason he is gone is because he was so predictable and hard headed.. If you only have to block for two, three seconds it doesn't matter if your line is suspect.. The line routinely had to block for 6-8 seconds that is asking a lot of any line.. Especially the line at the end of the season.. You call it window dressing.. I call it smoke and mirrors from somebody in need of being replaced.. With the talent on the offense Bruce should have been able to find a way to score more points.. Instead the offense did it's lean on the defense and leave them a short field routine. Remember the bubble screen Suggs picked off that swung the momentum back to the Ravens the second game.. He knew it was coming, I knew it was coming, my dog knew it was coming.. But your right Bruce was a genious above any silly accountability... He did everything right it just got changed in the huddle by Ben..

Chidi29
01-24-2012, 09:15 PM
Your absolutly right... That is why Bruce still has his job because it all worked so well.. Give me a break... The reason he is gone is because he was so predictable and hard headed.. If you only have to block for two, three seconds it doesn't matter if your line is suspect.. The line routinely had to block for 6-8 seconds that is asking a lot of any line.. Especially the line at the end of the season.. You call it window dressing.. I call it smoke and mirrors from somebody in need of being replaced.. With the talent on the offense Bruce should have been able to find a way to score more points.. Instead the offense did it's lean on the defense and leave them a short field routine. Remember the bubble screen Suggs picked off that swung the momentum back to the Ravens the second game.. He knew it was coming, I knew it was coming, my dog knew it was coming.. But your right Bruce was a genious above any silly accountability... He did everything right it just got changed in the huddle by Ben..

The turnovers aren't his fault. The lame ducks to Ed Reed in Week One? That was a huge factor in our red zone offense struggling the first and last four weeks of the season. In Weeks 5-13. we scored on all but two red zone possessions.

That's the only play the people who hate the screen cite. One good play by Suggs means it's a bad play. If that's the case, every play is a bad one because they alll fail from time to time.

lilyoder6
01-24-2012, 09:15 PM
all i would want from this new oc is to actually use a lot more of heath miller in the passing game and the red zone... and i know he stays in to block a wee bit.. but that is wasting his talent.. and its one less target let alone good target not to be able to use..

O'Malley
01-24-2012, 09:44 PM
The turnovers aren't his fault. The lame ducks to Ed Reed in Week One? That was a huge factor in our red zone offense struggling the first and last four weeks of the season. In Weeks 5-13. we scored on all but two red zone possessions.

That's the only play the people who hate the screen cite. One good play by Suggs means it's a bad play. If that's the case, every play is a bad one because they alll fail from time to time.

I am not saying I don't like bubble screens, I just don't like them when I know there coming... It's obvious.. One dimentional play calling and not working to the strength of the team.. Point is Arians is gone and I'm happy he is.. Now Ben has to be a big boy and actually play well to keep his spot.. I think Ben has become to secure on his spot on the team and become lazy.. Bruce is such a great QB coach he should have nipped it in the bud. Hope this will be the spark the offense needed and they come out and actually play above their ability..

Chidi29
01-24-2012, 09:54 PM
I am not saying I don't like bubble screens, I just don't like them when I know there coming... It's obvious.. One dimentional play calling and not working to the strength of the team.. Point is Arians is gone and I'm happy he is.. Now Ben has to be a big boy and actually play well to keep his spot.. I think Ben has become to secure on his spot on the team and become lazy.. Bruce is such a great QB coach he should have nipped it in the bud. Hope this will be the spark the offense needed and they come out and actually play above their ability..

When defenses caught on later in the year, Arians changed it up a lot. The playoff game is a great example of that.

Psycho Ward 86
01-24-2012, 11:25 PM
In Weeks 5-13. we scored on all but two red zone possessions.



hell, anyone can SCORE in the redzone. It's finishing it with a TD that usually separates great teams from good teams. The 49ers couldnt finish in the redzone, the real reason behind Akers getting one of the greatest single season performances in history (although you gotta give the guy credit) and now theyre sitting at home. Seriously, the guy attempted 52 field goals. People thought they were good now, imagine if Akers only had to be called up half as much. Now THAT is a scary 49ers, tenfold of what it is right now

NCSteeler
01-24-2012, 11:31 PM
Plus, the learning curve gets cut down because of OTAs and mini-camps. If the new OC implements a new scheme, he'll use that time to go over the playbook so that when the players come back for training camp, they are ready to go.

Other than the fact that the Rooney's rarely pay people to quit, the onus of a possible lockout may be one reason he was more readily retained last season.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-25-2012, 12:17 AM
Got to agree with you here. I remember Hills looked surprisingly good in preseason and got cut. I couldn't understand it then and after the problems we had with the O-line and especially at the guard position I still don't know why he didn't even make the team after doing so well?

Did I ever mention that we passed on Carl Nicks to draft Tony Hills?

Ah........never mind. Going back to play chess instead of listening to complaints about checkers.

suitanim
01-25-2012, 07:30 AM
A sacrificial lamb was needed to appease the football Gods.

Arians fit the bill.

Ahhhhhhh....I see we are back to looking in the 20/20 crystal ball of hindsight. That's always helpful. (Puffing up chest and pulling up clip-on suspenders while sniffling like Barney Fife) "If I was drafting Steelers, I'd have picked so on and so forth in every round, even though I didn't say so at the time, and they'd all be pro bowlers. I'd have also called the opposite call on all the plays that didn't work on offense".

Nonsense.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-25-2012, 07:50 AM
I would not refer to Rooney as a football god, but not giving Arians a new contract seemed to appease him.

Chidi29
01-25-2012, 09:46 AM
hell, anyone can SCORE in the redzone. It's finishing it with a TD that usually separates great teams from good teams. The 49ers couldnt finish in the redzone, the real reason behind Akers getting one of the greatest single season performances in history (although you gotta give the guy credit) and now theyre sitting at home. Seriously, the guy attempted 52 field goals. People thought they were good now, imagine if Akers only had to be called up half as much. Now THAT is a scary 49ers, tenfold of what it is right now

And we did score more TDs during that span, too. But we were at least getting points every time and it really made a difference. Again, over that stretch, we were the 5th best offense in the NFL, averaging 25 points per game. Looking at the other eight weeks, we averaged just 15.

86WARD
01-25-2012, 11:23 AM
How many home and road?

Chidi29
01-25-2012, 12:03 PM
How many home and road?

I don't know, I didn't do the splits for that. I imagine it was more at home on the road because we were a bad road team (my biggest gripe with Arians).

86WARD
01-25-2012, 12:28 PM
I think it's pretty much guaranteed home > road. But I was curious to see the difference. Being how bad I thought they were on the road this past year.

Edman
01-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Starks reported to camp 50+ pounds overweight...

...And coming off a Neck Injury.

Dino 6 Rings
01-25-2012, 12:37 PM
I wish the next OC a ton of luck and will support him til he gives me a reason not to.

ALLD
01-25-2012, 12:56 PM
Kirby would have been an obvious candidate, but he is still in a coma. A few days after BA has left the building and IMHO, one of the office vending machines would do a better job. Strap a whistle on it and feed it some quarters to get the play call.

JayC
01-25-2012, 01:13 PM
A few days after BA has left the building and IMHO, one of the office vending machines would do a better job. Strap a whistle on it and feed it some quarters to get the play call.:toofunny:

O'Malley
01-25-2012, 01:19 PM
When defenses caught on later in the year, Arians changed it up a lot. The playoff game is a great example of that.

We lost and your congradulating Arians? The offense against Denver looked pathetic.. But I will say Redman played very well.. Which in turn meant that Arians went away from him... Redman gets a carry averaging 7 per chances are he gives Suish a chance to kick the game winner.. Instead false start and sack... Both pass plays, with timeouts in our pocket.. But yeah Arians called a good game..:monkey: I guess love is blind...

XxKnightxX
01-25-2012, 01:49 PM
Kirby would have been an obvious candidate, but he is still in a coma. A few days after BA has left the building and IMHO, one of the office vending machines would do a better job. Strap a whistle on it and feed it some quarters to get the play call.
A5 A6 Return Return Winterfresh Reeses Cup on A3 hahaha

lilyoder6
01-25-2012, 01:58 PM
no one is rly ever going to be happy.. evry coach is going to have their pro's and con's.. and going to have great game plans and horrendous game plans..

Chidi29
01-25-2012, 02:31 PM
We lost and your congradulating Arians? The offense against Denver looked pathetic.. But I will say Redman played very well.. Which in turn meant that Arians went away from him... Redman gets a carry averaging 7 per chances are he gives Suish a chance to kick the game winner.. Instead false start and sack... Both pass plays, with timeouts in our pocket.. But yeah Arians called a good game..:monkey: I guess love is blind...

We probably win that game if Jerricho Cotchery makes that the 3rd and 2 catch on the third drive of the first quarter. Would have given us a great chance of at least, another FG.

We got away from the running game because we feel behind. You can't run late in the game when you need to score and score quickly.

Arians does not call timeouts. He is not allowed to do so. Only players or the head coach has the authority to do that.

I wasn't even talking about the game as a whole. You're putting works in my mouth and there are plenty of instances where Arians shares blame in that game. I was talking specifically about bubble screens. Please stay on topic.

suitanim
01-25-2012, 04:16 PM
no one is rly ever going to be happy.. evry coach is going to have their pro's and con's.. and going to have great game plans and horrendous game plans..

I was very happy with Tomlin, LeBeau and Arians. We'll be lucky to get as good as we had.

O'Malley
01-25-2012, 04:18 PM
We probably win that game if Jerricho Cotchery makes that the 3rd and 2 catch on the third drive of the first quarter. Would have given us a great chance of at least, another FG.

We got away from the running game because we feel behind. You can't run late in the game when you need to score and score quickly.

Arians does not call timeouts. He is not allowed to do so. Only players or the head coach has the authority to do that.

I wasn't even talking about the game as a whole. You're putting works in my mouth and there are plenty of instances where Arians shares blame in that game. I was talking specifically about bubble screens. Please stay on topic.

Why break down segments of the game when the final outcome was a dibacle and a loss to an inferior team? The fact is they run the ball when all they needed was 3 yards to get in a very manageable field goal position(in Denver where 10 yards can be added to the distance of a kick). Instead Bruce dials up a pass play, false start.. Then he dials up another pass play, sack.. Redman was averaging 7 yards per carry.. It doesn't take a genius to hand the ball off and kick a field goal.. Especially with a gimpy Ben that had not been himself the whole game.. It's simple things like this that sent Bruce packing.. The facts are Bruce didn't get the job done, Rooney owns the team.. The standard is the standard and Bruce fell short.. Your wrong Bruce is gone.. That's the facts jack.. No matter how you spin it.. Every team Bruce was the Oc struggled in the Red Zone.. Scoring is one thing.. Touchdowns are another.. You should be able to put the ball in the end zone the whole season.. Unless your only playing half a season then I guess your approach would work..

ShutDown24
01-27-2012, 04:13 AM
The fact is they run the ball when all they needed was 3 yards to get in a very manageable field goal position(in Denver where 10 yards can be added to the distance of a kick). Instead Bruce dials up a pass play, false start.. Then he dials up another pass play, sack.. Redman was averaging 7 yards per carry.

Average doesn't mean a thing when it comes to situational play calling. 3rd & 3 is a long way to go when you have a player like Redman in the backfield; every man on that defensive front is going to be focused on him. That is one hell of a different circumstance to when Denver is in nickel on second down; keying on Ben, and Redman breaks off a 7 yard gain. And you can't put the false start on the play call, that is the fault of the player. There very well could have been a false start on a called running play as well. And after the false start what are they supposed to do? Put the ball in Redman's stomach on 3rd & 8? Hardly.

HometownGal
01-27-2012, 04:53 AM
I wish the next OC a ton of luck and will support him til he gives me a reason not to.

Me too, but I don't give it very long around here until someone is B & M'ing and crucifying the new OC when the Steelers don't score 30 points. :doh:

NCSteeler
01-28-2012, 12:44 AM
Many of us gave Bruce 3-4 years before discussing his down side at length. I believe most will give the new guy that much time. How long did it take for the team to know Sherman wasn't capable of being a OC? Not every hire is a good one, so I do expect if he doesn't preform after a season or 2 I will be ready for change again.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-28-2012, 08:48 AM
Me too, but I don't give it very long around here until someone is B & M'ing and crucifying the new OC when the Steelers don't score 30 points. :doh:

Or they will complain that he is playing Cowherball and choking the life out of the game by winning games 13-10.

X-Terminator
01-28-2012, 12:47 PM
Or they will complain that he is playing Cowherball and choking the life out of the game by winning games 13-10.

I'd certainly complain about that. That would be worse than scoring 20.3 PPG under BA. WAY worse. There would be those who would love it, though, because they'd be getting back to running it 40 times a game and playing "SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!" :coffee:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-28-2012, 02:34 PM
I'd certainly complain about that. That would be worse than scoring 20.3 PPG under BA. WAY worse. There would be those who would love it, though, because they'd be getting back to running it 40 times a game and playing "SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!" :coffee: I'd take a low scoring ugly win instead of a 300 yd passing day and a loss like the San Fran game. Ideally, a balanced of fence that can close out games with the running game I would enjoy.

suitanim
01-29-2012, 07:53 AM
I'd certainly complain about that. That would be worse than scoring 20.3 PPG under BA. WAY worse. There would be those who would love it, though, because they'd be getting back to running it 40 times a game and playing "SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!" :coffee:

Problem is we'd probably be losing games 30-10.

Being a run-first, power-oriented team is like bringing a knife to a gun fight in the pass-happy NFL...especially with all the passer-friendly rules now in place.

86WARD
01-29-2012, 08:34 AM
Exactly.

Psycho Ward 86
01-29-2012, 11:37 AM
Problem is we'd probably be losing games 30-10.

Being a run-first, power-oriented team is like bringing a knife to a gun fight in the pass-happy NFL...especially with all the passer-friendly rules now in place.

Is that why all 5 of our losses came against teams revolved around running the ball? :rolleyes:

X-Terminator
01-29-2012, 11:56 AM
Problem is we'd probably be losing games 30-10.

Being a run-first, power-oriented team is like bringing a knife to a gun fight in the pass-happy NFL...especially with all the passer-friendly rules now in place.

You'll never convince the "run-first, run often, pass only on 3rd down" crowd of that, though. Better off convincing Iran to stop building nukes.

suitanim
01-30-2012, 05:25 AM
Is that why all 5 of our losses came against teams revolved around running the ball? :rolleyes:

We lost those games because we were on the road.

We lost the Rats at home because of our pass defense.

Dino 6 Rings
01-30-2012, 08:26 AM
We lost those games because we were on the road.

We lost the Rats at home because of our pass defense.

If that's what you think...more power to you.

suitanim
01-30-2012, 08:32 AM
If that's what you think...more power to you.

Look at our PPG at home.
And then on the road.

Then look at what we give up at home.
Then no the road.

Then get back to me.

Dino 6 Rings
01-30-2012, 08:34 AM
Look at our PPG at home.
And then on the road.

Then look at what we give up at home.
Then no the road.

Then get back to me.

I see 11 tunovers in 2 games on the road...

suitanim
01-30-2012, 10:02 AM
I see 11 tunovers in 2 games on the road...

That's 2.

What about the other 2.

And how are TO's Arians fault again?

Anyway, I sincerely doubt you are going to research and post stats that refute your position, so I'll go ahead.

Steelers at home avg. 25 PPG. Opponents avg. 10 PPG
Steelers on the road avg 15.6 PPG and opponets avg. 18.4 PPG

But it's the other teams running game that has everything to do with our road mediocrity...yeah. Um....okay....

Dino 6 Rings
01-30-2012, 10:12 AM
That's 2.

What about the other 2.

And how are TO's Arians fault again?

Anyway, I sincerely doubt you are going to research and post stats that refute your position, so I'll go ahead.

Steelers at home avg. 25 PPG. Opponents avg. 10 PPG
Steelers on the road avg 15.6 PPG and opponets avg. 18.4 PPG

But it's the other teams running game that has everything to do with our road mediocrity...yeah. Um....okay....

So your numbers suggest that our Offense sucked on the road...right? I mean, that's what your PPG shows. And if you are scoring 10 points less on the road that means you are either punting or turning over the ball more often than at home which means you are putting your defense in a worse position, so giving up 8 more points in road games kind of makes sense...

so who's problem is that the Offense struggled on the road to produce points? Exactly? Who is the struggle on the road offense blamed on? Ben? Mike? Dick? Harry?

suitanim
01-30-2012, 03:38 PM
So your numbers suggest that our Offense sucked on the road...right? I mean, that's what your PPG shows. And if you are scoring 10 points less on the road that means you are either punting or turning over the ball more often than at home which means you are putting your defense in a worse position, so giving up 8 more points in road games kind of makes sense...

so who's problem is that the Offense struggled on the road to produce points? Exactly? Who is the struggle on the road offense blamed on? Ben? Mike? Dick? Harry?

I stopped reading after the first sentence. You have made up your mind. Many have...at that point only stats that support you and yours position matter and the rest are just shut down. That's part and parcel with always being right once you've decided that you aren't going to listen any more...fine. The offense sucked on the road and that's all that matters and ding dong, the OC is gone, and there was much rejoicing.