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El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2012, 11:31 AM
Sources: Steelers prez wants old O


ESPN.com news services
While Pittsburgh offensive coordinator Bruce Arians announced his retirement Friday, team sources told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen the Steelers (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers) chose not to retain Arians, against the wishes of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5536/ben-roethlisberger).
The sources said the move was made in order to shift the offense back toward its blue-collar identity of years past, in line with the desires of Steelers president Art Rooney II.

Arians, 59, has been the only offensive coordinator in coach Mike Tomlin's five seasons with the Steelers. During his time as coordinator, he turned the Steelers from a run-first team to a pass-heavy one to better suit Roethlisberger.

Pittsburgh ranked in the top half of the NFL in offense over the past three seasons but finished a disappointing 12th this past season. "Bruce Arians has informed me that he will retire from coaching," Tomlin said in a statement. "I appreciate his efforts over the past five years as the team's offensive coordinator and for helping lead our offense to new heights during his time with the Steelers. I am grateful to Bruce for contributing to our success and wish him nothing but the best in his retirement."

The Steelers have a history of promoting from within at offensive coordinator. Arians joined the Steelers in 2004 as the wide receivers coach and was promoted to offensive coordinator in 2007.

Information from ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen, ESPN.com's Jamison Hensley and The Associated Press contributed to this report
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7489906/pittsburgh-steelers-chose-not-keep-bruce-arians-bucking-ben-roethlisberger-sources-say

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2012, 11:34 AM
Rooney is such a hater. He should be careful what he wishes for. But, in the end he should fall in line with the rest of the rational posters here and defer to the front office decisions that are made.

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 11:35 AM
Back to "3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" football. Lovely. Why even keep Ben if that's what he wants?

polamalubeast
01-23-2012, 11:38 AM
RUN,RUN,PASS,PUNT:puke:

I would request a trade if I would be Roethlisberger, if that's what the Steelers want

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2012, 11:42 AM
Dont we all have to defer to the front office on this one?? Isnt that the mantra??

Bluecoat96
01-23-2012, 11:43 AM
Ahh....media speculation.


This is a crap article.

oneforthetoe
01-23-2012, 11:45 AM
Back to "3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" football. Lovely. Why even keep Ben if that's what he wants?

I don't think that likely. Whomever the new OC is he pretty much has to use the talent we have - and that talent is in the passing game. Besides, the "3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" football was more of a Cowher phenomenon than the old school Steelers' football." The Rooneys didn't seem to mind Bradshaw chucking the ball all over the place in his last two Super Bowl seasons.

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 11:47 AM
Dont we all have to defer to the front office on this one?? Isnt that the mantra??

Nice try, but not this time. Not wanting to keep Arians around is one thing. Going back to a 60-40 or 65-35 run/pass ratio when you have one of the best QBs in the game on your roster is just freaking asinine. I can't defend the FO on this one, sorry.

suitanim
01-23-2012, 11:50 AM
Back to "3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" football. Lovely. Why even keep Ben if that's what he wants?

That makes sense. We should actually trade Ben for defensive players while he's still able to move around. We are gonna need them.

suitanim
01-23-2012, 11:52 AM
This also begs the question: If it was Tomlin's decision on whom to keep (according to Rooney himself), and yet it's Rooney who wants to go back to 3 yards and a cloud of dust, then, um......wasn't Rooney A) Forcing Tomlin's hand and B) Lying about it?

Maybe the FO DOES NOT know what they are doing anymore.

Edman
01-23-2012, 11:56 AM
Don't see what people are complaining about.

Because our "new" Jekyll & Hyde offense has worked hasn't it? Worst Offensive Production since 2003 (Ironically the last time we tried Greatest Show on Turf: Pittsburgh Edition with Tommy Gun). Defenders have refused to answer to that telling statistic.

Our "Old" Offense was balanced and fluent and used all our personnel instead of heaving up balls to 15 yard routes every other play. You know, like 2004 and 2005. They weren't exactly "3 yards and a cloud of dust" were they? Ironically, those "old" Steelers Offenses scored more points than any other of our "new" Offenses with considerably less talent. With freaking Randle El and Cedrick Wilson as recievers.

Whenever the Steelers flirted with passing offenses it's always backfired big time. We tried and tried passing offenses for years now, and it's never clicked. The Offense would show up one week and disappear the next. Play well for one half and disappear the second or vice-versa. It nearly cost the 2010 championship game against the Jets, nearly cost us several games in 2011, and cost us XLV.

Yes, I do take our "Old" Offenses over this.

suitanim
01-23-2012, 11:57 AM
This will actually help a couple things, though. Now when people complain that the offense is predictable, they will be right.

Also, it will be easier to poke fun at the people who second guess the OC on every play. Before they had to "mix it up", and say "Dammit, Arians, I said pass the ball!" and then on the next play "Dammit Arians, I said Run the ball!", and so on and so forth.

Now they'll just be able to say "Dammit _____, I said pass the ball" on every down.

Yay!

XxKnightxX
01-23-2012, 12:07 PM
RUN,RUN,SACK,PUNT:puke:

I would request a trade if I would be Roethlisberger, if that's what the Steelers want

FIxed it for ya

Psycho Ward 86
01-23-2012, 12:07 PM
Im never going to understand why these articles all make "establishing an identity" such a focal point. Jesus, run or pass whatever works, just make sure it works.

suitanim
01-23-2012, 12:09 PM
Im never going to understand why these articles all make "establishing an identity" such a focal point. Jesus, run or pass whatever works, just make sure it works.

So the actual plays don't matter, it's just whether they work or not.

Right.

Got it.

XxKnightxX
01-23-2012, 12:11 PM
I think in all honesty the FO wants to run a fluent office, not a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde Offense. Some games it was on fire, some games or series it was non existent. Lets be honest guys, playcalling at times lacked adjustment and creativity, and led to us being just mediocre on offense. And some people might think it was a knee jerk reaction, but dont forget whos in the FO that does scouting and film review, they HAD to see something wrong within arians, whether it was scheme, or just the fact that they werent gonna invest their time long term on a coach teetering on retirement. Sorry guys, they always do this, who knows what the future will hold, but I dont disagree with the decision at all.


P.S. : Dont forget who writes the checks in that office, and whos the boss. Yeah it may sound like Art is being a dick, but its his team, not Bens.

fansince'76
01-23-2012, 12:12 PM
This will actually help a couple things, though. Now when people complain that the offense is predictable, they will be right.


It's gonna be a grab bag of running plays!

polamalubeast
01-23-2012, 12:13 PM
If the offense is similar to that of Texans with Schaub as QB, I'll be happy.

Psycho Ward 86
01-23-2012, 12:14 PM
So the actual plays don't matter, it's just whether they work or not.

Right.

Got it.

What is this, the O'Reilly factor lol? Im not sure when i said such a thing.

You and your loaded language. That's supposed to be reserved for media bias :)

suitanim
01-23-2012, 12:15 PM
If the offense is similar to that of Texans with Schaub as QB, I'll be happy.

All we need now is:
A) A good oline and
B) Arian Foster

Of course, if we already had A, we'd not even need B and most of the complaints would be null and void.

9-7 here we come (if this is even true).

XxKnightxX
01-23-2012, 12:23 PM
What is this, the O'Reilly factor lol? Im not sure when i said such a thing.

You and your loaded language. That's supposed to be reserved for media bias :)

http://f.static.memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/13225/13543074.jpg

Psycho Ward 86
01-23-2012, 12:24 PM
http://f.static.memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/13225/13543074.jpg

:lol:

Edman
01-23-2012, 12:36 PM
I think in all honesty the FO wants to run a fluent office, not a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde Offense. Some games it was on fire, some games or series it was non existent. Lets be honest guys, playcalling at times lacked adjustment and creativity, and led to us being just mediocre on offense. And some people might think it was a knee jerk reaction, but dont forget whos in the FO that does scouting and film review, they HAD to see something wrong within arians, whether it was scheme, or just the fact that they werent gonna invest their time long term on a coach teetering on retirement. Sorry guys, they always do this, who knows what the future will hold, but I dont disagree with the decision at all.


P.S. : Dont forget who writes the checks in that office, and whos the boss. Yeah it may sound like Art is being a dick, but its his team, not Bens.

I just look at the body of work and the results. Our "New" Offense has has been mediocre and inconsistent for years now and if it weren't for a legendary Steelers Defense and Ben's Heroics in 2008, we're not Sixburgh. These people look at the tape and watch the games.

2011: Our Defense is struggling with age and is not as dominant as years past. You would think that FINALLY this Offense would step up and become the driving force. It responds with the WORST Offensive production since 2003.

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 12:41 PM
Don't see what people are complaining about.

Because our "new" Jekyll & Hyde offense has worked hasn't it? Worst Offensive Production since 2003 (Ironically the last time we tried Greatest Show on Turf: Pittsburgh Edition with Tommy Gun). Defenders have refused to answer to that telling statistic.

Our "Old" Offense was balanced and fluent and used all our personnel instead of heaving up balls to 15 yard routes every other play. You know, like 2004 and 2005. They weren't exactly "3 yards and a cloud of dust" were they? Ironically, those "old" Steelers Offenses scored more points than any other of our "new" Offenses with considerably less talent. With freaking Randle El and Cedrick Wilson as recievers.

Whenever the Steelers flirted with passing offenses it's always backfired big time. We tried and tried passing offenses for years now, and it's never clicked. The Offense would show up one week and disappear the next. Play well for one half and disappear the second or vice-versa. It nearly cost the 2010 championship game against the Jets, nearly cost us several games in 2011, and cost us XLV.

Yes, I do take our "Old" Offenses over this.

Yeah, and what was the difference between then and now?

1. Young QB
2. Strength was the running game

Today, we have:

1. All-Pro QB
2. Strength is the passing game

And you (and Mr. Rooney) want to go back to running the ball 40 times a game and only allow Ben to throw once every once in a while? Seriously?

Yeah, if I'm Ben, or Wallace and Brown, I'm asking for a trade right now. No way in hell am I going to be asked to only throw the ball 15 times a game. Let Charlie Batch start then.

Dino 6 Rings
01-23-2012, 12:41 PM
RUN,RUN,PASS,PUNT:puke:

I would request a trade if I would be Roethlisberger, if that's what the Steelers want

cause Pass Pass SACK FUMBLE is so much better...

just pointing out the silliness of thinking any NBBFers were for the Run Run Pass Punt Offense...

Dino 6 Rings
01-23-2012, 12:42 PM
The Giants have a balanced attack and had to throw 50 times yesterday...so why is that a bad thing to want?

So its bad now that the Front Office wants better than the 21st Ranked offense and isn't a big fan of the FG Kicker being the teams leading scorer? Especially when he can't hit one outside 44 yards?

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 12:45 PM
The Giants have a balanced attack and had to throw 50 times yesterday...so why is that a bad thing to want?

So its bad now that the Front Office wants better than the 21st Ranked offense and isn't a big fan of the FG Kicker being the teams leading scorer? Especially when he can't hit one outside 44 yards?

They had to throw 50 times yesterday out of necessity, because the 49ers are so good against the run. Let the Steelers try that - even if they win - and I guarantee you there would be fans who would complain about passing too much.

fansince'76
01-23-2012, 12:46 PM
Yeah, and what was the difference between then and now?

1. Young QB
2. Strength was the running game
3. Excellent OL

Today, we have:

1. All-Pro QB
2. Strength is the passing game
3. Shit OL


Fixed. But by all means, let's plunge Mendenhall into said shit OL for about 50% more 1-2 yard gains...

polamalubeast
01-23-2012, 12:48 PM
Yeah, and what was the difference between then and now?

1. Young QB
2. Strength was the running game

Today, we have:

1. All-Pro QB
2. Strength is the passing game

And you (and Mr. Rooney) want to go back to running the ball 40 times a game and only allow Ben to throw once every once in a while? Seriously?

Yeah, if I'm Ben, or Wallace and Brown, I'm asking for a trade right now. No way in hell am I going to be asked to only throw the ball 15 times a game. Let Charlie Batch start then.

I do not think the steelers are stupid like that.

If Roethlisberger passes the ball only 15 times in a game, the steelers are stupid and I do not think that the steelers are stupid like that.

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 12:53 PM
I do not think the steelers are stupid like that.

If Roethlisberger passes the ball only 15 times in a game, the steelers are stupid and I do not think that the steelers are stupid like that.

It's Art's team, though. If that's what he wants, that's what he's going to get. And I'm not being facetious when I say that, either. Tomlin and Co. is not going to "cross the boss."

ALLD
01-23-2012, 12:59 PM
You all are jumping to conclusions. What he meant most likely was that we would gameplan better and be more balanced on offense. I have complete confidence in the Rooneys. They are the best owners in football and are not dummies.

polamalubeast
01-23-2012, 01:02 PM
You all are jumping to conclusions. What he meant most likely was that we would gameplan better and be more balanced on offense. I have complete confidence in the Rooneys. They are the best owners in football and are not dummies.

agree

Edman
01-23-2012, 01:09 PM
Yeah, and what was the difference between then and now?

1. Young QB
2. Strength was the running game

Today, we have:

1. All-Pro QB
2. Strength is the passing game

And you (and Mr. Rooney) want to go back to running the ball 40 times a game and only allow Ben to throw once every once in a while? Seriously?

Yeah, if I'm Ben, or Wallace and Brown, I'm asking for a trade right now. No way in hell am I going to be asked to only throw the ball 15 times a game. Let Charlie Batch start then.

Our glorious "Strength" Of a Passing game that disappeared for long stretches when we really needed it. Our Glorious "Strength" of a passing game that cost us a postseason spot on a glorious Thursday Night in Cleveland in 2009. After that year, Rooney called for more effective RUNNING and balance. We scored more points in 2010, and reached the Super Bowl. Despite missing Ben for the first four games.

2011, Ben and Arians march into the season boasting more big offense and big things. Our "Strength" of a passing game kicked off a debacle in Baltimore on it's way to the WORST OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION in years.

I don't care if Ben throws it 15, 20, or 25 times a game. I demand a more effective and fluid offense. I want an Offense that can be counted on when it's needed.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2012, 01:41 PM
If the offense is similar to that of Texans with Schaub as QB, I'll be happy.

I think the committment to a stronger running game like the Texans, 49ers, Giants, Ravens have would be fine. Consider the fact that we have a better QB than all those teams and same or better WR groups, then the addition of a run game will make the offense complete instead of one dimensional.

Being an effective, physical run team does not mean you cannot pass the football. It has the potential to pound the football in the end zone from inside the 10 yard line instead of kicking FG's all the time.

steelreserve
01-23-2012, 02:05 PM
People should actually be pretty happy to hear this, because what it really sounds like he's saying is: "We're likely to start paying more attention to the offensive line because we need to be more effective at running the football."

Not, "We're immediately going to start running the football twice as much, just for the sake of running the football, even though we'd probably be bad at it with our current players."

I don't think they'll go about it stupidly and just implement round-peg-square-hole playcalling before we have the players to do it. In particular, I think being able to run the ball more effectively would help IMMENSELY when we get inside the 20, which is one of our biggest problems now.

At any rate, I now would not be surprised to see us take an offensive lineman early in the draft, and possibly go get one in free agency.

polamalubeast
01-23-2012, 02:09 PM
With a very good running game, it will be much easier for Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown to make big play.

O'Malley
01-23-2012, 02:18 PM
I think Rooney wants a balanced attack.. With the stable of RB's on the Roster why not use them.. Running sets up the pass, and this IMO just opens up big plays... I'm all for it... As for Mendy, who says he'll even be on the team next year? Redman proved he can handle to load and has a better YPC average.. If you run more play action works better.. I don't get why everybody was in love with Bruce.. I didn't hate him, but he rarely put together a good game plan and never made adjustments.. It was time to move on and I'm confident that the FO knows what their doing. All the pieces are in place, add a couple solid O-Linemen and the sky is the limit.

BigNastyDefense
01-23-2012, 02:19 PM
I am hoping by "old offense" Art II means he wants more balance to the offense. If he wants to go back to the run-run-sack-punt days of Bill Cowher then I say trade Ben, Wallace, Brown, Miller, & Sanders for a fullback, some offensive linemen, and a couple defensive players. Draft a QB in the 5th round and start him as a rookie.

I think the balance should be 45% run and 55% pass, I think something around there (adjusted for certain teams of course) would be about perfect. And I think the run game will be better with Redman starting at RB because he'll hit the hole and at the least get three yards. Mendenhall would dance around in the backfield waiting for a hole and then get tackled for a loss or barely gain anything.

O'Malley
01-23-2012, 02:21 PM
I am hoping by "old offense" Art II means he wants more balance to the offense. If he wants to go back to the run-run-sack-punt days of Bill Cowher then I say trade Ben, Wallace, Brown, Miller, & Sanders for a fullback, some offensive linemen, and a couple defensive players. Draft a QB in the 5th round and start him as a rookie.

I think the balance should be 45% run and 55% pass, I think something around there (adjusted for certain teams of course) would be about perfect. And I think the run game will be better with Redman starting at RB because he'll hit the hole and at the least get three yards. Mendenhall would dance around in the backfield waiting for a hole and then get tackled for a loss or barely gain anything.

Agreed.

Bluecoat96
01-23-2012, 02:21 PM
Where in the original article does it say Rooney wants 3 yards and a cloud of dust? It doesn't.

Think of the Saints offense. They were #6 in Rushing this past year. They sure as heck weren't a 3 yards and cloud of dust. We can do that.

Rushing Yards Leaders




RK
TEAM
ATT (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingAttempts/seasontype/2)
YDS (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYards/seasontype/2/order/false)
YDS/A (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt/seasontype/2)
LONG (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/longRushing/seasontype/2)
TD (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingTouchdowns/seasontype/2)
YDS/G (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/seasontype/2)
FUM (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingFumbles/seasontype/2)
FUML (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingFumblesLost/seasontype/2)


1
Denver (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos)
546
2632
4.8
60
11
164.5
11
7


2
Houston (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/hou/houston-texans)
546
2448
4.5
56
18
153.0
10
5


3
Carolina (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/car/carolina-panthers)
445
2408
5.4
74
26
150.5
3
0


4
Minnesota (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/min/minnesota-vikings)
448
2318
5.2
67
18
144.9
7
1


5
Philadelphia (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-eagles)
450
2276
5.1
60
20
142.3
9
4


6
New Orleans (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-saints)
431
2127
4.9
36
16
132.9
3
3


7
Oakland (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/oak/oakland-raiders)
466
2110
4.5
70
16
131.9
7
3

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 02:40 PM
Our glorious "Strength" Of a Passing game that disappeared for long stretches when we really needed it. Our Glorious "Strength" of a passing game that cost us a postseason spot on a glorious Thursday Night in Cleveland in 2009. After that year, Rooney called for more effective RUNNING and balance. We scored more points in 2010, and reached the Super Bowl. Despite missing Ben for the first four games.

2011, Ben and Arians march into the season boasting more big offense and big things. Our "Strength" of a passing game kicked off a debacle in Baltimore on it's way to the WORST OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION in years.

I don't care if Ben throws it 15, 20, or 25 times a game. I demand a more effective and fluid offense. I want an Offense that can be counted on when it's needed.

So you're in support of wasting the talent at QB and WR.

Gotcha.

May as well trade them then and run Tim Tebow's offense instead.


Where in the original article does it say Rooney wants 3 yards and a cloud of dust? It doesn't.

Think of the Saints offense. They were #6 in Rushing this past year. They sure as heck weren't a 3 yards and cloud of dust. We can do that.

Rushing Yards Leaders




RK
TEAM
ATT (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingAttempts/seasontype/2)
YDS (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYards/seasontype/2/order/false)
YDS/A (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt/seasontype/2)
LONG (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/longRushing/seasontype/2)
TD (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingTouchdowns/seasontype/2)
YDS/G (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/seasontype/2)
FUM (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingFumbles/seasontype/2)
FUML (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingFumblesLost/seasontype/2)


1
Denver (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos)
546
2632
4.8
60
11
164.5
11
7


2
Houston (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/hou/houston-texans)
546
2448
4.5
56
18
153.0
10
5


3
Carolina (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/car/carolina-panthers)
445
2408
5.4
74
26
150.5
3
0


4
Minnesota (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/min/minnesota-vikings)
448
2318
5.2
67
18
144.9
7
1


5
Philadelphia (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-eagles)
450
2276
5.1
60
20
142.3
9
4


6
New Orleans (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-saints)
431
2127
4.9
36
16
132.9
3
3



7
Oakland (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/oak/oakland-raiders)
466
2110
4.5
70
16
131.9
7
3




This, of course, is the offense I want to see. Run the ball, but don't ignore or suppress the passing game. They were 6th in the league in rushing, yet Brees broke Marino's single season yards record. I sincerely hope this is what Mr. Rooney is alluding to and not the 60+% run offense they had during Ben's first 2 seasons.

Count Steeler
01-23-2012, 05:38 PM
Let's see who the next OC is before we get to far. Maybe Rooney is taking the reigns. If he gets too involved though, we are in for a stretch of hurt. Maybe Ben is on his way out as well.

Edman
01-23-2012, 07:53 PM
So you're in support of wasting the talent at QB and WR.

No, I'm in support of a better scoring and a balanced offense. If it means "wasting" the talent at QB and WR, so be it.

We tried building pass-heavy offenses for years now, and it has failed constantly. Once again, when Rooney after 2009 called for a more effective running game and a balanced offense, we went to the Super Bowl. Mendenhall had his best season and Ben also had an impressive year.

2007, Arians' first year as OC was by far his best. The Steelers scored 393 points (Third best in Steelers history). Did they do it slinging the ball all over the field like recently? Get this. They were 31st in the league in pass attempts (442). Their rush attempts? 3rd. Ben had his highest PR of his career and the best TD:INT season to date (32:11). Ben's 32 TD's are a Steelers single-season record and he hasn't come close to that since. This is from throwing to Hines Ward, Cedrick Wilson, Nate Washington, and a second-year Santonio Holmes by the way.

Of course the Arians took that success to his head and throught that the Steelers Offensive success in 2007 was due to throwing the ball. We threw the ball more next year (505), and we got the most pathetic offensive seasons to date. If it weren't for Ben pulling games out of his ass and one of the best Steelers Defensive Units in years, we don't win XLIII. The SB went to his head again and we threw even MORE in 2009 (536). We missed the postseason. Culminating with a doozy of a gameplan with the season on the line in Cleveland.

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 08:11 PM
No, I'm in support of a better scoring and a balanced offense. If it means "wasting" the talent at QB and WR, so be it.

We tried building pass-heavy offenses for years now, and it has failed constantly. Once again, when Rooney after 2009 called for a more effective running game and a balanced offense, we went to the Super Bowl. Mendenhall had his best season and Ben also had an impressive year. 2007, Arians' first year as OC was by far his best. The Steelers scored 393 points (Third best in Steelers history). Did they do it slinging the ball all over the field like recently?

Get this. They were 31st in the league in pass attempts (442). Their rush attempts? 3rd. Ben had his best TD:INT season to date (32 TD's and 11 INT's, that he hasn't eclipsed since) and if it weren't for Tom Brady's legendary year, he'd probably be considered the best of that year.

2007...let me see...oh yeah - the Steelers were just 10-6 and lost in the first round at home to the Jaguars. So all of that didn't bring us no championship. Oh, and BTW...the Steelers still passed more than they ran last season even after that edict came down from Mr. Rooney. You say Ben had an impressive year, but at the same time, you blame their losses in the SB and the near-loss in the AFCC on "passing too much." So which is it? Is the passing attack an asset or not?

All I'm asking for is that we don't end up going back to an overly run-heavy offense. They have a lot of weapons in the passing game. Let them use them, AND run the ball better and more effectively. They are not paying Ben over $100 million for him to hand the ball off 7 out of every 10 plays. That not only is a waste of talent, but a waste of money.

And Ben threw 26 TDs in the 2007 season, not 32. Bradshaw's record is still intact for most TD passes in a season.

Psycho Ward 86
01-23-2012, 08:13 PM
Maybe Ben is on his way out as well.

lol

Texasteel
01-23-2012, 08:16 PM
I normally take stories that start with "An unnamed source" with a pinch of salt. Still, if Art Jr. doesn't like the running game he needs to take part of the blame. He has had his part in letting the OL get into the shape it is. I may be wrong, but I think a strong running game starts with a strong OL.

I just hope what ever we try next year works.

Edman
01-23-2012, 08:24 PM
2007...let me see...oh yeah - the Steelers were just 10-6 and lost in the first round at home to the Jaguars. So all of that didn't bring us no championship.

Seriously though, all I'm asking for is that we don't end up going back to an overly run-heavy offense. They have a lot of weapons in the passing game. Let them use them, AND run the ball better and more effectively. They are not paying Ben over $100 million for him to hand the ball off 7 out of every 10 plays. That not only is a waste of talent, but a waste of money.

Key Injuries derailed the 2007 season as the Steelers were a walking mash unit near the end. You know that as much as I do.

The bottom line is that we had more offensive efficiency (and success), not by slinging the ball and deep all over the place, but having more balance on offense. Running the ball more, running better, and running more effectively. Asking for a balanced "old" Steeler Offense doesn't mean scrap the Passing game. The 2005 team with the "old" offense didn't get to the bowl by run-heavy nor pass-heavy, they got there with balance.

SteelerFanInStl
01-23-2012, 08:30 PM
If he wants to run the ball more/better, then he'd better be ready to pony up some $$ for some OL help.

Personally I'd like to see an offense that's equally capable of scoring points through the air or on the ground.

With the amount of talent that we have in the passing game and the way that today's rules are, I don't think that it would be a wise move to switch to a run heavy offense.

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 08:32 PM
Key Injuries derailed the 2007 season as the Steelers were a walking mash unit near the end. You know that as much as I do.

The bottom line is that we had more offensive success, not by slinging the ball over the place, but having more balance on offense.

You can have more balance without ignoring the passing game. You can have more balance without running the ball 70% of the time (which in itself is not balance, except to many Steelers fans and Mr. Rooney, apparently). In plain terms, you can have more balance without playing Cowherball every week. You may want that, but I'm sorry, I don't. I had more than enough of Cowherball to last me a lifetime. It's nice having a QB that is capable of doing big things with his arm and nice having the ability to score from anywhere on the field, something we didn't have for 15 years of Cowherball.

Just say NO to Cowherball.

Edman
01-23-2012, 08:43 PM
You can have more balance without ignoring the passing game. You can have more balance without running the ball 70% of the time. In plain terms, you can have more balance without playing Cowherball every week. You may want that, but I'm sorry, I don't. I had more than enough of Cowherball to last me a lifetime. It's nice having a QB that is capable of doing big things with his arm and nice having the ability to score from anywhere on the field, something we didn't have for 15 years of Cowherball.

Just say NO to Cowherball.

I will say no to Cowherball, but I will not say yes to what we're seen recently, which has butchered and misused our offensive talent, and constantlly underachieved.

Bottom line is that we both want the same thing: A More effective and balanced offense that steps up with more consistency and scoring. We saw shades of it under Arians, but never enough.

Devilsdancefloor
01-23-2012, 08:47 PM
To be honest i do not think he is saying we have to run run run it is more of lets get more efficient. He has been patient with BA he dropped HINTS about running more efficiently (HINT FB) , but it worked for like 3 weeks and then back to same ol same ol get behind become Al davis ball. I really thin BA grew as a OC and did have really good game plans, but saying that he also had some really shitty ones as well. Yes, i have to trust the FO on whatever they decide. Plus the steelers seem to never be able to just run the damn clock out anymore, they are always giving the ball back and i need to take more pepto. Anyway we have to trust the rooneys i have for the past 35 years.

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 08:56 PM
I will say no to Cowherball, but I will not say yes to what we're seen recently, which has butchered and misused our offensive talent, and constantlly underachieved.

Bottom line is that we both want the same thing: A More effective and balanced offense that steps up with more consistency and scoring. We saw shades of it under Arians, but never enough.

Yes, we do want the same thing. I wasn't happy with the 20.3 PPG they put up with all of those weapons, but at the same time, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to the passing game. I'm not asking for 70-30 or 60-40 pass/run, but I don't see anything wrong with passing 50-55% of the time. Either way, I think we're all good. :drink:

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 09:08 PM
No, I'm in support of a better scoring and a balanced offense. If it means "wasting" the talent at QB and WR, so be it.

We tried building pass-heavy offenses for years now, and it has failed constantly. Once again, when Rooney after 2009 called for a more effective running game and a balanced offense, we went to the Super Bowl. Mendenhall had his best season and Ben also had an impressive year.

2007, Arians' first year as OC was by far his best. The Steelers scored 393 points (Third best in Steelers history). Did they do it slinging the ball all over the field like recently? Get this. They were 31st in the league in pass attempts (442). Their rush attempts? 3rd. Ben had his highest PR of his career and the best TD:INT season to date (32:11). Ben's 32 TD's are a Steelers single-season record and he hasn't come close to that since. This is from throwing to Hines Ward, Cedrick Wilson, Nate Washington, and a second-year Santonio Holmes by the way.

Of course the Arians took that success to his head and throught that the Steelers Offensive success in 2007 was due to throwing the ball. We threw the ball more next year (505), and we got the most pathetic offensive seasons to date. If it weren't for Ben pulling games out of his ass and one of the best Steelers Defensive Units in years, we don't win XLIII. The SB went to his head again and we threw even MORE in 2009 (536). We missed the postseason. Culminating with a doozy of a gameplan with the season on the line in Cleveland.

We're talking a difference of 63 pass attempts from the two seasons, about four per game. That change isn't going to put any offense in the tank all of a sudden.

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 09:11 PM
While it would be stupid to go to the old offense with the weapons we have, as everyone has stated, who knows exactly what Art meant and how the source interpreted it.

But this is why I want my coaches to make the decisions coaching staff decisions. Not the owner. The coaches are the most in-tune with the team.

Aussie_steeler
01-23-2012, 09:34 PM
While it would be stupid to go to the old offense with the weapons we have, as everyone has stated, who knows exactly what Art meant and how the source interpreted it.

But this is why I want my coaches to make the decisions coaching staff decisions. Not the owner. The coaches are the most in-tune with the team.

Agreed Chidi

However Art may be more in tune with the people / fans

My take on all this is that he wants to see a return of identity that matches the blue collar persona of the city and fans. He is not after a return to hardcore run at all costs.

I think the identity reference is directly related to Pittsburgh being feared by all teams no matter where they are on the field. A bit of fear that this team can run it or pass it in any situation and be lethal. I have seen this at times however the Offensive playcalling and implementation is usually predictable and non threatening.

I would like to see an Offensive unit that can bully an opponent at anypoint, who strikes fear and is able to create and utilise the mismatches that arise.

With an upgraded O line, our Probowl QB, Young money crew, Miller and Saunders, plus Mendy / redman / RB stable I can see a unit that achieves those goals IF they are managed / coached / playcalled in a DYNAMIC way.

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Agreed Chidi

However Art may be more in tune with the people / fans

My take on all this is that he wants to see a return of identity that matches the blue collar persona of the city and fans. He is not after a return to hardcore run at all costs.

I think the identity reference is directly related to Pittsburgh being feared by all teams no matter where they are on the field. A bit of fear that this team can run it or pass it in any situation and be lethal. I have seen this at times however the Offensive playcalling and implementation is usually predictable and non threatening.

I would like to see an Offensive unit that can bully an opponent at anypoint, who strikes fear and is able to create and utilise the mismatches that arise.

With an upgraded O line, our Probowl QB, Young money crew, Miller and Saunders, plus Mendy / redman / RB stable I can see a unit that achieves those goals IF they are managed / coached / playcalled in a DYNAMIC way.

What I or Joe the Steelers' fan wants doesn't matter. Our identity is winning, it doesn't matter how you do it.

I'm fearful of the Patriots offense. The Packers and the Saints. When I think of them, I don't think of their blue-collared approach. I see a team that can beat anyone in the league. That's scary, that's why teams fear them.

86WARD
01-23-2012, 10:02 PM
Nice try, but not this time. Not wanting to keep Arians around is one thing. Going back to a 60-40 or 65-35 run/pass ratio when you have one of the best QBs in the game on your roster is just freaking asinine. I can't defend the FO on this one, sorry.

So true. It's not the way the game is played "today." It's a passing league...the Rooney's have to get over that run bullshit...

NCSteeler
01-24-2012, 12:11 AM
They had to throw 50 times yesterday out of necessity, because the 49ers are so good against the run. Let the Steelers try that - even if they win - and I guarantee you there would be fans who would complain about passing too much.

This is exactly where we depart. Because I have seen too many games in that exact situation that Arians RUNS RUNS RUNS. His inability to take what you can get and plan to do what the other team is not as good at is what drove most of us insane.

To other posters points...

Now where did this little article say we were gonna run 40-50 times a game? I think some people are going over the edge as Suit likes to say, hell now all the supporters are ???ing the FO. Is the FO only smart and great when doing what you want them to? And Yes the plays don't matter, call the right play at eh right time and they work.

I think SF or Texans have a fine offense and add in a QB who can really play and you have a seriously good offense.

But I thought drafting a Guard high would fix all the offensive problems??

Iron Steeler
01-24-2012, 05:15 AM
You can have more balance without ignoring the passing game. You can have more balance without running the ball 70% of the time (which in itself is not balance, except to many Steelers fans and Mr. Rooney, apparently). In plain terms, you can have more balance without playing Cowherball every week. You may want that, but I'm sorry, I don't. I had more than enough of Cowherball to last me a lifetime. It's nice having a QB that is capable of doing big things with his arm and nice having the ability to score from anywhere on the field, something we didn't have for 15 years of Cowherball.

Just say NO to Cowherball.

I see where your worried .. but I don't think the Rooney s can deny the talent we have at WR. I think we do need to establish a better run game near the red zone because the spread offense and bubble screens are not cutting it from inside the ten

BlacknGoldBabe
01-24-2012, 06:45 AM
It's Art's team, though. If that's what he wants, that's what he's going to get. And I'm not being facetious when I say that, either. Tomlin and Co. is not going to "cross the boss."

And THIS, kids, is the bottom line.

SteelerEmpire
01-24-2012, 06:46 AM
All fine and well, just as long they don't remain the "same ol' predictable Steelers offense" that the Ravens and a few other teams now know how to play with their eyes closed.

Iron Steeler
01-24-2012, 07:07 AM
If a can predict plays from my couch. That probably means the opposing defense can see it coming too

Steeldude
01-24-2012, 10:56 AM
All fine and well, just as long they don't remain the "same ol' predictable Steelers offense" that the Ravens and a few other teams now know how to play with their eyes closed.

nonsense. it's entirely the fault of the players for now executing every play that is called regardless of the situation....lol.

O'Malley
01-24-2012, 05:45 PM
If a can predict plays from my couch. That probably means the opposing defense can see it coming too

This^ It's time for a change and change is coming.

Chidi29
01-24-2012, 06:10 PM
This^ It's time for a change and change is coming.

It's funny that people say that all the time yet I've never seen anyone do it in a Gameday thread or anywhere else.

steelpride12
01-24-2012, 06:20 PM
Or maybe Ben could stop being treated like a child and make most of the offensive plays and decisions.

lilyoder6
01-24-2012, 06:27 PM
i dont remember when arians b/c the oc.. but to say that the steelers want to get back to the old off by running the ball first, does not make sense to me.. over the yrs we have been turning into a pass to set up the run team b/c of our skilled players.. but yet even in this tranistion.. in the last 6 yrs 4 of those the main rb has gotten over 1100 yrds, this past yr mendy got 928 in addition to redman's 478 and then in 08 parker had 791 and moore had 588... so its not like we arent getting the rushing yrds.. they may be taking more rushing att.. but we still getting the yrds running while increasing the passing yrds by ben...

X-Terminator
01-24-2012, 07:52 PM
I see where your worried .. but I don't think the Rooney s can deny the talent we have at WR. I think we do need to establish a better run game near the red zone because the spread offense and bubble screens are not cutting it from inside the ten

I definitely agree that the red zone offense needs to get better, and the best way to do that is to be able to run the ball when they get there. I think that factored into some of the playcalling, because I don't think Arians had much confidence in the running game in the red zone. So he tried to do it with Ben's arm, and failed more often than not.

lilyoder6
01-24-2012, 09:16 PM
also, if they want to go back to the old offense of running the ball and blah blah blah... does that mean we can actually get a true fb instead of h-back player

suitanim
01-25-2012, 07:26 AM
It's funny that people say that all the time yet I've never seen anyone do it in a Gameday thread or anywhere else.

It's not magic, anyway. You pretty much have a 50/50 shot even if you're retarded. They are either going to pass or they are going to run. Add in that if it's 3rd and 12 and the Steelers are on the opponents side of the field they will (as would every other team in the league) certainly going to pass, and other situations that are pretty obvious and it becomes more like 60/40 for even the casual fan.

NCSteeler
01-25-2012, 09:03 AM
It's funny that people say that all the time yet I've never seen anyone do it in a Gameday thread or anywhere else.

Kinda hard to see a formation and get apost on here before it's run. Besides not all of us use the gameday forum, I'd rather concentrate on the tv.

Chidi29
01-25-2012, 09:51 AM
Kinda hard to see a formation and get apost on here before it's run. Besides not all of us use the gameday forum, I'd rather concentrate on the tv.

I'm just saying that those people always come out after the fact when hindsight is on their side.