PDA

View Full Version : Cook claims Arians was forced out by Art Rooney II



Pages : [1] 2

zulater
01-20-2012, 11:11 PM
The decision to push out Arians apparently has been made by team president Art Rooney II. The most recent time I talked to Arians about his future, he made it clear he wants to come back. "These young guys have made it so much fun for me," he said of the team's young wide receivers. It's believed coach Mike Tomlin wants Arians back. At his season-ending news conference after a wild-card playoff loss to the Denver Broncos, he said he anticipated his coaching staff remaining intact.

But Tuesday, Rooney told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Ed Bouchette that a few Steelers coaches are considering retirement. Surely, any official announcement about Arians -- perhaps this week or next -- will make it sound as if the retirement decision is his alone. Don't be fooled. That doesn't mean it isn't Rooney who has decided it's time for Arians to go.

Firing Arians now is just as wrong as it would have been after the 2009 season when there was media speculation he was out. The Steelers went 9-7 and missed the playoffs that year, although the offense wasn't nearly as much to blame as the defense, which blew five fourth-quarter leads, and the special teams, which allowed four kickoff returns for touchdowns. Roethlisberger went to management and Tomlin and argued to keep Arians. It's hard to say what impact he had, but Arians stayed. Good thing because the team made it to the Super Bowl in '10. In '08, it won Super Bowl XLIII with Arians calling the plays, including those on the late, 78-yard winning drive.



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12020/1204705-87-0.stm

I think this pretty much confirms what many of us thought going back two years ago. That being that someone high up in the Steelers organization wanted Bruce out.

Not that it matters now. But there was way too much smoke for their not to be anything to the story. Guys like Ed Bouchette, Jim Wexall, Gerry Dulac etc... do not just go making things up.

Steeldude
01-20-2012, 11:16 PM
IMO, i think he was told to go, but they let him retire so as not to be embarrassing. the lemmings have no choice but to say it's a great move, if true.


with Arians calling the plays, including those on the late, 78-yard winning drive

wouldn't that be execution, not the result of the OC...lol?

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 11:16 PM
Then why wouldn't Arians come out and say he was forced out?

zulater
01-20-2012, 11:22 PM
Then why wouldn't Arians come out and say he was forced out?

His contract wasn't renewed. It's as simple as that.



"It's that time of year we do the coaches' contract for those who don't have a contract and sometimes we extend contracts," Rooney said. "Mike's involved in those conversations with all his coaches."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12020/1204846-42.stm#ixzz1k4EdMhs6

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 11:25 PM
Arians could still say he's not retiring and the team simply didn't renew the contract, leading him to believe the team didn't want him.

And if Rooney forced him out, when the players and Tomlin wanted him, it was a very bad decision.

stillers4me
01-20-2012, 11:31 PM
Apparently, Art wants to go in another direction as badly as many fans do. It's so frustrating to watch all that talent struggle to score so few points. Yes, we won 12 games, but our defense was still able to put their aged and decrepit feet up some asses and allow the offense to score just enough to win 12 times this year, but it can be so much better.

It's time for a change and I am excited to see what we can do with a new perspective. I wish Bruce a happy and healthy retirement, but it's just time for a breath of fresh air on the offensive side. Look what happened to our secondary when Carnell Lake took over. Change can be good. (((with every finger and toe crossed!)))

zulater
01-20-2012, 11:31 PM
Arians could still say he's not retiring and the team simply didn't renew the contract, leading him to believe the team didn't want him.

And if Rooney forced him out, when the players and Tomlin wanted him, it was a very bad decision.

Only time will tell that. Don't be so sure that Ben can't take his game to a higher level with a different coach. He may not like it, but he's a pro and will do what's required of him.

Shoes
01-20-2012, 11:33 PM
Arians could still say he's not retiring and the team simply didn't renew the contract, leading him to believe the team didn't want him.

And if Rooney forced him out, when the players and Tomlin wanted him, it was a very bad decision.

How so Chidi? American business isn't based on a democracy.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 11:34 PM
Only time will tell that. Don't be so sure that Ben can't take his game to a higher level with a different coach. He may not like it, but he's a pro and will do what's required of him.

This is where we disagree. I still don't see the evidence that Arians was too soft on Ben (I realize the two had a close relationship but so did Tom Moore and Peyton Manning). In fact, I've seen Ben grow by leaps and bounds the past two seasons that tells me Arians is still pushing him.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 11:35 PM
How so Chidi? American business isn't based on a democracy.

I realize that and those factors are only part of the equation (Arians being a good OC being the other). But when you have a large group of competent people wanting to bring him back, you better at least listen. I hope and pray Art Jr. did.

Steeldude
01-20-2012, 11:37 PM
Arians could still say he's not retiring and the team simply didn't renew the contract, leading him to believe the team didn't want him.

And if Rooney forced him out, when the players and Tomlin wanted him, it was a very bad decision.

what the players want is not always good. especially the way players are hungry to pad their stats nowadays. also, who is to say tomlin made a good choice with arians as the OC? tomlin didn't make a good choice with horton as the DB coach or zierlein as the O-line coach.

perhaps arians wanted it this way.

stillers4me
01-20-2012, 11:37 PM
Only time will tell that. Don't be so sure that Ben can't take his game to a higher level with a different coach. He may not like it, but he's a pro and will do what's required of him.

Exactly.

There once was a time....when all Ben needed was the 2 minute warning and everyone knew what was going to happen. It didn't happen in the superbowl against the Packers and it didn't happen in Denver. We looked like the keystone cops and I've a feeling it left a very sour taste in Dan and Art's mouths to watch it. Blame it on Ben, blame it on the oline, blame it on injuries, blame it on Ariens....it just can't happen anymore. I feel Ben has taken a step backward and with what he has to work with...there's NO excuse for it. Ben needs a coach, not a BFF.

Shoes
01-20-2012, 11:37 PM
I realize that and those factors are only part of the equation (Arians being a good OC being the other). But when you have a large group of competent people wanting to bring him back, you better at least listen. I hope and pray Art Jr. did.

I'm sure he did...it's his money.

zulater
01-20-2012, 11:37 PM
It's also possible that Arains was given a nice bonus check on the way out the door. With a coach that would be legal since they don't fall under the jurisdiction of the salary cap. Anyway if Art really wanted him gone, but wanted it done in a way that wouldn't create discord with the players, tell Bruce he's not being renewed, and here's a check for your trouble if you go away nicely.

zulater
01-20-2012, 11:39 PM
Exactly.

There once was a time....when all Ben needed was the 2 minute warning and everyone knew what was going to happen. It didn't happen in the superbowl against the Packers and it didn't happen in Denver. We looked like the keystone cops and I've a feeling it left a very sour taste in Dan and Art's mouths to watch it. Blame it on Ben, blame it on the oline, blame it on injuries, blame it on Ariens....it just can't happen anymore. I feel Ben has taken a step backward and with what he has to work with...there's NO excuse for it. Ben needs a coach, not a BFF.

Ben had the worst passer rating of his career this season in the last two minutes of either half.

Steeldude
01-20-2012, 11:39 PM
But when you have a large group of competent people wanting to bring him back

were they being truthful? what player is going to say his OC sucks? tomlin saying he wants him back could have been a smokescreen. we'll never know for certain.

IMO, it was time for a change.

Steeldude
01-20-2012, 11:40 PM
Exactly.

There once was a time....when all Ben needed was the 2 minute warning and everyone knew what was going to happen. It didn't happen in the superbowl against the Packers and it didn't happen in Denver. We looked like the keystone cops and I've a feeling it left a very sour taste in Dan and Art's mouths to watch it. Blame it on Ben, blame it on the oline, blame it on injuries, blame it on Ariens....it just can't happen anymore. I feel Ben has taken a step backward and with what he has to work with...there's NO excuse for it. Ben needs a coach, not a BFF.

good post

Shoes
01-20-2012, 11:41 PM
It's also possible that Arains was given a nice bonus check on the way out the door. With a coach that would be legal since they don't fall under the jurisdiction of the salary cap. Anyway if Art really wanted him gone, but wanted it done in a way that wouldn't create discord with the players, tell Bruce he's not being renewed, and here's a check for your trouble if you go away nicely.

Sounds like the Irish mafia :chuckle:

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 11:42 PM
what the players want is not always good. especially the way players are hungry to pad their stats nowadays. also, who is to say tomlin made a good choice with arians as the OC? tomlin didn't make a good choice with horton as the DB coach or zierlein as the O-line coach.

perhaps arians wanted it this way.

Don't underestimate how important a good QB/OC relationship is. It's worth it's weight in gold IMO. Tomlin's job is to evaluate and you have to let him have control of the coaching staff. That's why he has the head coaching gig. He's been more than capable of making good decisions.

Horton was a good hire. The only two bad ones were Zerilein and Ligashesky.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 11:43 PM
were they being truthful? what player is going to say his OC sucks? tomlin saying he wants him back could have been a smokescreen. we'll never know for certain.

IMO, it was time for a change.

Behind closed doors to the Head Coach, I'm sure plenty do.

I think the player's dislike for Brian Schottenheimer in New York was made clear.

stillers4me
01-20-2012, 11:44 PM
Sounds like the Irish mafia :chuckle:

Too close for comfort? :lol:

zulater
01-20-2012, 11:46 PM
This is where we disagree. I still don't see the evidence that Arians was too soft on Ben (I realize the two had a close relationship but so did Tom Moore and Peyton Manning). In fact, I've seen Ben grow by leaps and bounds the past two seasons that tells me Arians is still pushing him.

Regardless. What evidence do you have that Ben is uncoachable for anyone other than Arains?

Ben had two very successful seasons for a coach he obviously disliked before. I see no evidence to suggest that Ben has to be best buds with the incoming OC ?

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 11:48 PM
Regardless. What evidence do you have that Ben is uncoachable for anyone other than Arains?

Ben had two very successful seasons for a coach he obviously disliked before. I see no evidence to suggest that Ben has to be best buds with the incoming OC ?

He certainly is coachable by other people than Arians and Fichtner. I just see no reason to get rid of the relationship that is in place when to me, it's working well.

They don't have to be best buds, but I think it certainly is a big help. Often with friendship, comes trust (I don't have friends in real life so I'm just speculating on that :chuckle:). And when you have a QB with so much freedom, you have to be willing to put trust in him at times.

stillers4me
01-20-2012, 11:52 PM
The superbowl and the playoff game in Denver were the two biggest games we played in the last 2 years. We had the chance to win both of them and failed miserably. The superbowl loss could be consoled by the fact that the Packers were actually a very good team. (a very good team that we should have beat). Denver on the other hand........hmmmmm. Art wants change and we have too much talent to let this continue. Ben is 30 years old...in his prime but the clock is ticking.

The standards are simply higher in Pittsburgh.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 11:59 PM
Behind closed doors to the Head Coach, I'm sure plenty do.

I think the player's dislike for Brian Schottenheimer in New York was made clear.

Just for proof.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/09/unhappy-jets-receivers-complain-to-rex-ryan-about-the-offense/

Shoes
01-21-2012, 12:09 AM
Just for proof.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/09/unhappy-jets-receivers-complain-to-rex-ryan-about-the-offense/

Your stretching it there a bit brother....the Jets are a circus, not a football team. :chuckle:

tube517
01-21-2012, 12:11 AM
Sounds like the Irish mafia :chuckle:

I've always said what Don Corleone Rooney wants, he gets!

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 12:19 AM
Your stretching it there a bit brother....the Jets are a circus, not a football team. :chuckle:

Touche

NCSteeler
01-21-2012, 12:26 AM
Exactly.

There once was a time....when all Ben needed was the 2 minute warning and everyone knew what was going to happen. It didn't happen in the superbowl against the Packers and it didn't happen in Denver. We looked like the keystone cops and I've a feeling it left a very sour taste in Dan and Art's mouths to watch it. Blame it on Ben, blame it on the oline, blame it on injuries, blame it on Ariens....it just can't happen anymore. I feel Ben has taken a step backward and with what he has to work with...there's NO excuse for it. Ben needs a coach, not a BFF.

This is what pushed me over the edge. a team that looked completely un coached unready for what was in front of them, utter embarrassment. The D was just as bad, but I give Lebeau some lee way and the D has not made a terrible habit of having completely poor gameplans. I late as 12/21/11 I was on this board supporting Arians, but at some point lack of execution and readiness falls at the feet of the coach.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 12:29 AM
This is what pushed me over the edge. a team that looked completely un coached unready for what was in front of them, utter embarrassment. The D was just as bad, but I give Lebeau some lee way and the D has not made a terrible habit of having completely poor gameplans. I late as 12/21/11 I was on this board supporting Arians, but at some point lack of execution and readiness falls at the feet of the coach.

Let's not forget we came out of that game pretty hot. This team dominated the first quarter of the game. Those are your scripted plays. We were prepared.

NCSteeler
01-21-2012, 12:31 AM
Fact is ownership put him on notice last year, first by letting him enter the final year of his deal(which typically in the NFL is not done with highly desired coaches) and secondly publicly announcing they want to run the ball more "effectively" .

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 12:33 AM
We did run the ball more effectively. Went from 4.1 YPC to 4.4 in a year where we had as many, if not more, injuries to the offensive line.

Edman
01-21-2012, 12:42 AM
Even if he was or was not forced out, The Rooneys and the fans were getting tired of the underachieving mediocrity by the offense. As I have said many posts ago, the Steelers Offense lacks a killer instinct and cannot win games or make critical drives to put teams away. Flash but no substance. If the Steelers Offense extended a late lead (To a TD or more) and the Defense blew it, then yes. The loss is definitely on the Defense. But many times all year despite winning 12 games, the Defense was forced to above and beyond to save a game because the Offense went to sleep (Jacksonville, Cincinnati I, Kansas City, Indy). Even when they knew the Defense wasn't as dominant as years past and had problems with injuries all year.

The Steelers have lost their last two playoff games. Their Offensive ineptitude cost them a Seventh Super Bowl Title and nearly cost them the AFC Championship game. In the last three playoff games the offense looked subpar, and with no Defense to save the day, we lost. Of course, we'll get the usual "Fix the O-Line!" excuse. The problems with the offense this year was more than just O-Line. It's sloppiness all around. By Ben, the coaches and the recievers. Unorganized, inconsistent, undisciplined, and downright terrible at times. Turnovers, Penalties, Dropped Passes, Red Zone failures.

I am not demanding scoring 30-40 points a game and blowing teams out. That's unrealistic. I just want an Offense that gives confidence and works to the best of it's ability. An Offense that doesn't make me (and others) pull their hair out every time they step on the field.

st33lersguy
01-21-2012, 01:12 AM
Atleast Mr. Rooney showed brains in trying to get that moron out. Rooney probably knew the playcalling and the gameplans were terrible and that Tomlin didn't want him out. Thank you Mr. Rooney

BigNastyDefense
01-21-2012, 01:48 AM
If this is true, and it's likely it is, Mr. Rooney has every right to do what he sees fit, it's his money that's being paid to the coaching staff. I am sure that he had a conversation with his dad about this.

In the end, Mr. Rooney didn't like the direction the offense way going with Bruce Arians as the OC. He chose not to renew Arians' contract, and I have a feeling he will be at least somewhat involved in the search and hiring of a new offensive coordinator.

Mr. Art Rooney is not going to be as involved as Jerry Jones is with the Cowboys, but when he wants change, he is going to make sure that a change is made.

JayC
01-21-2012, 01:58 AM
go art go! made me feel better about next season already

Austin87
01-21-2012, 03:11 AM
Thanks Mr.Rooney!

pepsyman1
01-21-2012, 06:05 AM
Let's not forget we came out of that game pretty hot. This team dominated the first quarter of the game. Those are your scripted plays. We were prepared.

We came out hot and , YET AGAIN, no touchdowns to show for it. Our "high powered" offense had it's worst output in 8 seasons since we went 6-10 in 2003. And this team has FAR more offensive talent. Isn't scoring really what the success of the offense really comes down to? How many superbowls would we have won since 2004 if we had the offensive production of the Patriots? If our offense was cranking out 425 points or more a year like the Patriots how dominating would we be considering over the same time frame our D has averaged giving up about 17.5 points a game. Are we wrong to want a better final result out of our offense? Arians has a total of 7 years under his belt as an OC and has only once managed to reach the top ten in scoring (now 4 seasons back). That's not a great record of offensive success. I think most of us want a better pay off from all this offensive talent and Art II decided it wasn't gonna happen with Arians. I say it's the right move.

zulater
01-21-2012, 06:24 AM
One of the things that's bothered me with our offense lately is that it used to be if we got the ball late in the game when we trailed Ben was almost always money and delivered a winning drive. Lately though, when we get the ball late in a game with a chance to win we look like Keystone Cops, running around without a clue going nowhere.

Now there's a good chance this is more perception than reality. After all Ben and the offense did deliver what should have been a game winning drive late against the Ravens this season. Only of course to have the defense give it back with only 8 seconds on the clock.

But this much is verifiable fact. Ben's qb rating in the last two minutes of either half this past season was a paltry 61.6! His career low by far. I don't know how many points we squandered at the end of halves this year? But it sure seemed like we had an awful lot of promising drives run out of steam or time at the end of the first half this season.

zulater
01-21-2012, 06:29 AM
Bruce Arians' tenure as Steelers offensive coordinator has come to a sudden if not strange end, with the team announcing his retirement in a one-paragraph statement that was as frosty as the final days of his sometimes stormy five-year career.

Less than a week after Arians told people he intended to return for the 2012 season, the Steelers said Friday that he has decided to retire -- a bizarre turn of events that began with the team's decision to not renew his contract, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has learned.

That decision appears to have come from team president Art Rooney II, even though coach Mike Tomlin told Arians several times since the playoff loss in Denver that he wanted him to return next season.

The Post-Gazette reported three days ago that Arians, 59, who was in the final year of his contract, might not return next season. But it was unclear at the time if he was going to retire or if the Steelers were not going to renew his contract.

Turns out, it was a little of both.

And now Tomlin, who inherited Arians and defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau when he replaced Bill Cowher in 2007, will have to make his most significant coaching hire since becoming head coach.

According to sources inside and outside the organization, Tomlin had told Arians on several occasions since the end of the season that he wanted him to return in 2012 -- once even telling him in front of other coaches. And Arians had told other people, including his assistants, he intended to return in 2012.

But, earlier this week, after he returned to his offseason home in Greensboro, Ga., Arians was told his one-year contract would not be renewed -- a decision that appeared to come from someone higher than Tomlin, sources said.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12021/1205041-66.stm#ixzz1k5y1apPM

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 06:35 AM
Tomlin will probably have to go outside the organization to hire a coordinator.


Since Noll became coach in 1969, the Steelers have gone outside their organization to hire an offensive coordinator only three times -- Joe Walton in 1990, Ray Sherman in '98 and Kevin Gilbride in '99. In each instance, the Steelers never made the playoffs with those coordinators running the offense.

IOW, be careful what you wish for...

zulater
01-21-2012, 06:35 AM
Two years ago, when the Steelers were considering a change in offensive coordinators, it was Roethlisberger who went to Tomlin and Rooney to support Arians -- a move that eventually saved his job.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12021/1205041-66-3.stm#ixzz1k5yfVAsH

For those of you who ridiculed those of us who believed there was some substance to previous rumors that Bruce's job was in jeopardy. We were right. Sorry. that's the last time I'll bring it up.

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 06:42 AM
Two years ago, when the Steelers were considering a change in offensive coordinators, it was Roethlisberger who went to Tomlin and Rooney to support Arians -- a move that eventually saved his job.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12021/1205041-66-3.stm#ixzz1k5yfVAsH

For those of you who ridiculed those of us who believed there was some substance to previous rumors that Bruce's job was in jeopardy. We were right. Sorry. that's the last time I'll bring it up.

Still no real proof of that except more hearsay, but whatever. Not going to get into it again, especially now that he's gone.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 06:48 AM
Arians could still say he's not retiring and the team simply didn't renew the contract, leading him to believe the team didn't want him.

And if Rooney forced him out, when the players and Tomlin wanted him, it was a very bad decision.

Wait a minute, when the FO wanted to keep Arians they were geniuses. Now that they made the move that the Arians backers did not see coming, the FO has made a mistake. Sorry, can't have it both ways. If you defer to the FO because they know what is going on and is making the right decision in keeping Arians, you can't suddenly claim that the FO took a stupid pill.

Chidi, I don't think you were one of the "FO knows best", but your post was a good opportunity to make the point for the others who were using this argument.

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 06:53 AM
This year the steelers offense have made ​​28 turnovers is too much.

I wish the steelers reduce the number of sacks, penalties, interception,fumble,pass drop and they improve in the red zone.

There should also make more big play.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 06:55 AM
Let's not forget we came out of that game pretty hot. This team dominated the first quarter of the game. Those are your scripted plays. We were prepared.

And we scored the Grand Total of 6 points. Should have at least 10. But of course it was the player's fault.

zulater
01-21-2012, 06:58 AM
Still no real proof of that except more hearsay, but whatever. Not going to get into it again, especially now that he's gone.

Basically every single writer and beat reporter for the Steelers is of the same opinion on this issue, there was substance to the rumors that Arians almost was fired, and that Ben intervened and saved his job. These guys are in the building almost every day of their working life. If they report absolute shit and nonsense it comes back to bite them in the ass in their every day work environment. Particularly in the case of Jim Wexall, who reported that Rooney wanted him out, yet was retained by the house publication Steelers digest. As I said before, if Wexall had made it up, he either would have been forced to print a retraction, or he would have lost his job with Steelers Digest.

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 07:04 AM
Yes, I'm well aware of Wexell's infallibility in all things Steelers-related (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/16/jim-wexell-still-has-some-explaining-to-do/). Again, not going to get back into it.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 07:06 AM
Kudos to stillers4me. 2 great posts in this thread and basically same way I feel.

Zu and fan, the storm is brewing.

86WARD
01-21-2012, 07:08 AM
Arians could still say he's not retiring and the team simply didn't renew the contract, leading him to believe the team didn't want him.

And if Rooney forced him out, when the players and Tomlin wanted him, it was a very bad decision.

Agree 100%. I'm not the biggest Arians supporter out there, I'm also not the biggest hater. But if they went about it this way and as Chidi said, the players and Tomlin wanted him to stay, there's gonna be some issues about it next season...

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 07:08 AM
Zu and fan, the storm is brewing.

Not on my end. Said my piece and I'm moving on now. :thumbsup:

zulater
01-21-2012, 07:16 AM
Wait a minute, when the FO wanted to keep Arians they were geniuses. Now that they made the move that the Arians backers did not see coming, the FO has made a mistake. Sorry, can't have it both ways. If you defer to the FO because they know what is going on and is making the right decision in keeping Arians, you can't suddenly claim that the FO took a stupid pill.

Chidi, I don't think you were one of the "FO knows best", but your post was a good opportunity to make the point for the others who were using this argument.

See if you agree with this Count.

The reason I engaged in this topic, which to some degree admittedly is beating the proverbial dead horse. Is because for the last two years Arians strongest supporters have used front office support as somewhat of a bully pulpit against those of us who have expressed doubts or reservations about Bruce. If you claimed that there were some higher up's in the organization that had similar doubts about Arains, and referenced a near plurality among the beat reporters who covered the team who nearly all insist that Bruce was almost ousted two years ago by the Rooney's. You were mocked and ridiculed along with said reporters, who supposedly made it all up.

Right or wrong there's been internal conflict in the Steelers organization for at least a couple years as to whether Bruce was the right man for the job. Proving that knowledgeable lifetime football people can hold the same views and doubts as us ignorant message board posters. :heh:

BlacknGoldBabe
01-21-2012, 07:22 AM
The worst thing that can happen for a coach is predictability. Unfortunately, it seems that Arians' play calling fell into that category. Denver seemed like they knew every play before it happened. I watched that game and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

zulater
01-21-2012, 07:22 AM
Yes, I'm well aware of Wexell's infallibility in all things Steelers-related (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/16/jim-wexell-still-has-some-explaining-to-do/). Again, not going to get back into it.

I'm not saying he's infallible. But if what he reported about Rooney's thoughts on getting rid of Arains going back to 2009, and those had been outright lies or exaggerations, he never would have retained his job at the Steelers official publication Steelers Digest. That's just common sense.

ShutDown24
01-21-2012, 07:32 AM
I don't believe Art Rooney would do something as underhanded as this. The staff should be Coach Tomlin's discretion, not his. If this is true I shudder to think what kind of an owner Art Jr. will be in his reign. I'm glad Dan is coming home from Ireland soon.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-21-2012, 07:34 AM
Rooney clearly said recently that there are a lot of pieces in place on this team. Why would he force Arians out unless he is part of the pitchfork and torch carrying crowd of Arians haters? There is clearly a miscommunication that Ron Cook isn't getting in his article.

zulater
01-21-2012, 07:37 AM
I don't believe Art Rooney would do something as underhanded as this. The staff should be Coach Tomlin's discretion, not his. If this is true I shudder to think what kind of an owner Art Jr. will be in his reign. I'm glad Dan is coming home from Ireland soon.

Why? Dan did the same thing to Chuck Noll back in the day.

Tomlin and Ben will survive this, and probably emerge better for it in the end.

By the way it wouldn't surprise me if Kevin Colbert had a hand in this decision. I don't think Art II would overstep his bounds and make this sort of power play without the advice and consent of his GM.

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 07:39 AM
Why? Dan did the same thing to Chuck Noll back in the day.

Yes, after 4 consecutive non-playoff seasons with 3 of those seasons culminating in losing records. Completely different situation.

zulater
01-21-2012, 07:42 AM
Rooney clearly said recently that there are a lot of pieces in place on this team. Why would he force Arians out unless he is part of the pitchfork and torch carrying crowd of Arians haters? There is clearly a miscommunication that Ron Cook isn't getting in his article.

Yeah he did say that. I guess in the end he wasn't satisfied with the way those pieces were being put together.

Or maybe Ron Cook and others misremembered ( thanks Roger Clemmons :chuckle:} Bruce saying that he was looking foward to coming back next season?

zulater
01-21-2012, 07:46 AM
Yes, after 4 consecutive non-playoff seasons with 3 of those seasons culminating in losing records. Completely different situation.

Perhaps. But if you're the CEO and think something can be improved upon it's your right to make the change.

Texasteel
01-21-2012, 07:51 AM
See if you agree with this Count.

The reason I engaged in this topic, which to some degree admittedly is beating the proverbial dead horse. Is because for the last two years Arians strongest supporters have used front office support as somewhat of a bully pulpit against those of us who have expressed doubts or reservations about Bruce. If you claimed that there were some higher up's in the organization that had similar doubts about Arains, and referenced a near plurality among the beat reporters who covered the team who nearly all insist that Bruce was almost ousted two years ago by the Rooney's. You were mocked and ridiculed along with said reporters, who supposedly made it all up.

Right or wrong there's been internal conflict in the Steelers organization for at least a couple years as to whether Bruce was the right man for the job. Proving that knowledgeable lifetime football people can hold the same views and doubts as us ignorant message board posters. :heh:

Last year there was a report that BA was going to be fire. This turned out to be not true. That is when the the common line was, "Well they changed their mind or got talked out of it." Everyone in the organization disclaimed this notion except for one unnamed person, the one that obviously started the story. Some decided to believe the unnamed source, some of us decided to believe the people that put their names to their statement. I don't recall any more ridicule coming for one side more than the other. The FO wanted to keep BA last year, I thought they were right to do so. If their decide to force BA, which as far as I know is still speculation, I have to believe they are doing what they think is right for the team, and they have a pretty good history of being right.

I am still glad Dan is finally coming home.

zulater
01-21-2012, 07:52 AM
Last week when I saw Bruce Arians at Steelers headquarters, I asked if he'd be back in 2012.
"Yeah, I'll be back," he said.
But as it turns out, it doesn't look like he will return. There's growing speculation that Arians is being forced out. His five-year run as offensive coordinator is all but officially over.

ww.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/bires-steelers-wants-more-from-offense-than-arians-gives-them/article_ad207c0f-7505-5ad3-b00e-bc10a7dac91e.html

Texasteel
01-21-2012, 07:57 AM
Last week when I saw Bruce Arians at Steelers headquarters, I asked if he'd be back in 2012.
"Yeah, I'll be back," he said.
But as it turns out, it doesn't look like he will return. There's growing speculation that Arians is being forced out. His five-year run as offensive coordinator is all but officially over.

ww.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/bires-steelers-wants-more-from-offense-than-arians-gives-them/article_ad207c0f-7505-5ad3-b00e-bc10a7dac91e.html

So last year Art Jr. could change his mind, even though he said that was not the case, but this year BA is not aloud to.

suitanim
01-21-2012, 08:00 AM
This would, at best, make Rooney a liar on several different fronts.

I knew this would be the direction this whole thing went, because some people desperately want to be proven right in their annual assertion (3-4 years running now) that Arians was on the chopping block.

I am going to wait and see how this whole thing shakes out before I comment more. I mean, people are losing their minds here again, with all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories and the like...

X-Terminator
01-21-2012, 08:02 AM
If it's true that Art II forced him out, then I'm going to trust his judgment like I do every other time. It's his team, and if he wants change, change is what he's going to get whether anyone likes it or not. However, he...as well as the blind Arians haters here and everywhere else...had better hope the new OC pans out and the offense has more success, because if they don't, they're all going to hear about it.

Texasteel
01-21-2012, 08:11 AM
I'm not sure I expect a much better offense next year, and I'm not going to hammer the new OC if it is not. He may install several different idea to the offense, and I am only guessing that this might not be easy for the offense to grasp right away. One thing he as going for him, hopefully, is the lack of injurys the crippled the QB position, and weakened an already questionable line. Plus, hopefully, he will have a couple new linemen to work with.

Devilsdancefloor
01-21-2012, 08:19 AM
I really think we will be ok on O this year the have all the camps. i am more concerned with the D at this moment, big changes on that side of the ball coming for sure

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 08:22 AM
Apparently, Art wants to go in another direction as badly as many fans do.

It's so frustrating to watch all that talent struggle to score so few points....

It's time for a change and I am excited to see what we can do with a new perspective. I wish Bruce a happy and healthy retirement, but it's just time for a breath of fresh air on the offensive side. Look what happened to our secondary when Carnell Lake took over. Change can be good. (((with every finger and toe crossed!)))

For WHATEVER reasons we have a loaded offense and are only scoring 20.3 ppg. Now it's time for a change. Simple as that.

Is Arians the majority of the problem? No.

I just PRAY the FO does not consider this a cure all and continue to ignore the largest problem...the offensive line.

ALLD
01-21-2012, 08:26 AM
were they being truthful? what player is going to say his OC sucks? tomlin saying he wants him back could have been a smokescreen. we'll never know for certain.

IMO, it was time for a change.

Tomlin also stated it was right for the commissioner to fine James Harrison.

The was AR II all the way. I figured there would have been a team statement to the fact, but they handled it very noblely and probably gave BA a bonus check to say only good things. Happens all the time.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 08:37 AM
If it's true that Art II forced him out, then I'm going to trust his judgment like I do every other time. It's his team, and if he wants change, change is what he's going to get whether anyone likes it or not. However, he...as well as the blind Arians haters here and everywhere else...had better hope the new OC pans out and the offense has more success, because if they don't, they're all going to hear about it.

Trouble being, the new OC will get the benefit of a new and improved O Line, assuming they address this unit in FA and/or the draft.

Texasteel
01-21-2012, 08:39 AM
Tomlin also stated it was right for the commissioner to fine James Harrison.

The was AR II all the way. I figured there would have been a team statement to the fact, but they handled it very noblely and probably gave BA a bonus check to say only good things. Happens all the time.

Tomlin also call a couple of the fines BS. Just because he said the fine was right in one case does not mean he was saying it was right in all cases.

Bluecoat96
01-21-2012, 08:42 AM
Once again the awesome media tries to stir up a little controversy. NOONE has any true idea what went down except for Tomlin, Rooney, and Arians.

I don't believe there's any real issue here whatsoever. Who knows? I think too much assumption is made that just because management and coaches might disagree somewhat that there's a problem. My bosses tell me to do stuff all the time I don't agree with. I'm still happy to work there.

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 08:45 AM
For WHATEVER reasons we have a loaded offense and are only scoring 20.3 ppg. Now it's time for a change. Simple as that.

Is Arians the majority of the problem? No.

I just PRAY the FO does not consider this a cure all and continue to ignore the largest problem...the offensive line.


3 of the biggest problems are that the offense has made ​​28 turnovers, the red zone and the number of sacks.

Also the fact that the defense has created only 15 turnovers was also one of the problems in the offense and also Roethlisberger's injury has really hurt the steelers offense(30 points in 3 games with a Roethlisberger's injury).

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 08:48 AM
See if you agree with this Count.

The reason I engaged in this topic, which to some degree admittedly is beating the proverbial dead horse. Is because for the last two years Arians strongest supporters have used front office support as somewhat of a bully pulpit against those of us who have expressed doubts or reservations about Bruce. If you claimed that there were some higher up's in the organization that had similar doubts about Arains, and referenced a near plurality among the beat reporters who covered the team who nearly all insist that Bruce was almost ousted two years ago by the Rooney's. You were mocked and ridiculed along with said reporters, who supposedly made it all up.

Right or wrong there's been internal conflict in the Steelers organization for at least a couple years as to whether Bruce was the right man for the job. Proving that knowledgeable lifetime football people can hold the same views and doubts as us ignorant message board posters. :heh:

I believe it was before the 2010 season that ARII challenged Tomlin and Arians to step it up in their positions. He wanted a more effective running game and he wanted the young players developed better. I don't think you have to use reporters or other stories to intimate that there was dissension in the FO. I would suggest from that interview, ARII was not very pleased with Tomlin nor Arians.

Tomlin's second contract was long in coming, further bringing speculation that ARII was not pleased with the coaches. Arians has been on year to year contracts, as has Lebeau, for the last 3-4 years.

It was my strong feeling after the game in Denver that this is a transition off season for the Steelers. Some coaches and vets would be retiring or moving on. I believe we have only started.

zulater
01-21-2012, 08:49 AM
This would, at best, make Rooney a liar on several different fronts.

I knew this would be the direction this whole thing went, because some people desperately want to be proven right in their annual assertion (3-4 years running now) that Arians was on the chopping block.

I am going to wait and see how this whole thing shakes out before I comment more. I mean, people are losing their minds here again, with all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories and the like...

Yeah like nearly every single member of the working press that covers the team on a daily basis. People who unlike any of us have actual sources and access to team facilities.

If you want to continue on with your fantasy that Bruce was always beloved by all in the Steelers hierarchy, and that he just woke up in Hawaii yesterday and said I'm done with it, after telling virtually everyone that would listen just a week earlier that he couldn't wait to be back, then have at it.

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 08:54 AM
I believe it was before the 2010 season that ARII challenged Tomlin and Arians to step it up in their positions. He wanted a more effective running game and he wanted the young players developed better.


In addition, the running game -- an area that Arians' detractors said he didn't develop -- had its best per-carry average (4.4 yards) since the 2001 season. That is a better average than in '10 when Art Rooney II declared the Steelers needed to run the ball more effectively.

Seems to me that equals improvement. :noidea: I think Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace have developed pretty well also.

zulater
01-21-2012, 08:55 AM
So last year Art Jr. could change his mind, even though he said that was not the case, but this year BA is not aloud to.

You really think that's what happened? Honestly? Funny how Bruce hasn't spoken publicly about any of this yet?

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 08:58 AM
Rooney wants to win. He is the boss. He signs the checks, he gets to call the shots. We can call the last 5 years a partial success. The first 3 years were great, getting us to the SB and winning. The last 2 years, while playoff years, have been frustrating. Rooney does not want to continue down the same road, therefore he has made a change.

We shall see what the future holds. I believe there are more personnel changes coming, both on and off the field.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 09:00 AM
Seems to me that equals improvement. :noidea: I think Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace have developed pretty well also.

Art sees something he does not like. Maybe he was talked into keeping Arians 2 years ago. He could not be convinced this time around. He is the boss.

Moose
01-21-2012, 09:06 AM
Arians could still say he's not retiring and the team simply didn't renew the contract, leading him to believe the team didn't want him.

And if Rooney forced him out, when the players and Tomlin wanted him, it was a very bad decision.

I wasn't a real big Arians fan anyway, there's way too many times I was pissed too many times at a play called that didn't do anything for us. I'm sorry, but if Rooney forced him out sounds good to me. After all, it seems the Rooney's and F.O. made some pretty damn good/great decisions on coaches in the past. As far as what the players and Tomlin like....too bad, they don't have a 'track' record of good or great hires, and this is s business not a social club where you hang with people who are nice and you like.

zulater
01-21-2012, 09:07 AM
Art sees something he does not like. Maybe he was talked into keeping Arians 2 years ago. He could not be convinced this time around. He is the boss.

Good way to put it, and probably right. :applaudit:

Texasteel
01-21-2012, 09:09 AM
You really think that's what happened? Honestly? Funny how Bruce hasn't spoken publicly about any of this yet?

I don't know for sure, and neither do you. This is speculation on both our parts and I will not pretend to know something that none of us really know. I believe he has retire because he chose to till I know better.

zulater
01-21-2012, 09:12 AM
I'm just about out the door heading to Florida until late Tuesday.

Have a good week end guys. Remember it's just guys and gal having fun discussing our favorite team. Let's not make it personal or get too mad over a difference of opinion.:rockon:

zulater
01-21-2012, 09:13 AM
I don't know for sure, and neither do you. This is speculation on both our parts and I will not pretend to know something that none of us really know. I believe he has retire because he chose to till I know better.

I know where the evidence trail leads. You can pretend it doesn't exist if it makes you happy. :wink02:

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 09:13 AM
Here we go Steelers! Here we go! :tt03: :tt02: :tt03:

On to the draft.

Fix the O Line, add depth to D Line.

Texasteel
01-21-2012, 09:24 AM
I know where the evidence trail leads. You can pretend it doesn't exist if it makes you happy. :wink02:

And you can pretend you know what is in the mind of BA and the organization, if that makes you happy. :wink02: The evidence trail shows that BA said he would be back, then decided to retire after all, for what ever reason. Everything else is pure speculation. No body KNOWS the whole story, and unless something is said later on by BA or the organization, we likely never will.

stillers4me
01-21-2012, 09:30 AM
Trouble being, the new OC will get the benefit of a new and improved O Line, assuming they address this unit in FA and/or the draft.

The new OC is going to insist on it being addressed. If he doesn't, he should be fired. :chuckle:

Texasteel
01-21-2012, 09:34 AM
The new OC is going to insist on it being addressed. If he doesn't, he should be fired. :chuckle:

I'll be the first. Fire ( insert name.)

stillers4me
01-21-2012, 09:41 AM
Personnally, I think the decision was made not to offer him a contract extension. He announced his retirement, and everybody looks good.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 10:16 AM
In addition, the running game -- an area that Arians' detractors said he didn't develop -- had its best per-carry average (4.4 yards) since the 2001 season. That is a better average than in '10 when Art Rooney II declared the Steelers needed to run the ball more effectively.


Fansince 76

Seems to me that equals improvement. I think Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace have developed pretty well also.

Great point.

But I wonder if they had simply ASSUMED that if our running game was strong again we would be knocking the rock into the end zone again...

Possibly all the MORE reason to be disgruntled with 20.3 PPG.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 10:19 AM
3 of the biggest problems are that the offense has made ​​28 turnovers, the red zone and the number of sacks.


Also the fact that the defense has created only 15 turnovers was also one of the problems in the offense and also Roethlisberger's injury has really hurt the steelers offense(30 points in 3 games with a Roethlisberger's injury).

Agreed PB.

However, it is possible that all of these problems you are pointing out on offense are symptoms of a poor offensive line.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 10:36 AM
Yeah like nearly every single member of the working press that covers the team on a daily basis. People who unlike any of us have actual sources and access to team facilities.

If you want to continue on with your fantasy that Bruce was always beloved by all in the Steelers hierarchy, and that he just woke up in Hawaii yesterday and said I'm done with it, after telling virtually everyone that would listen just a week earlier that he couldn't wait to be back, then have at it.


When did Bruce say he couldn't wait to be back?

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 10:44 AM
I wasn't a real big Arians fan anyway, there's way too many times I was pissed too many times at a play called that didn't do anything for us. I'm sorry, but if Rooney forced him out sounds good to me. After all, it seems the Rooney's and F.O. made some pretty damn good/great decisions on coaches in the past. As far as what the players and Tomlin like....too bad, they don't have a 'track' record of good or great hires, and this is s business not a social club where you hang with people who are nice and you like.

You don't tell your head coach that has won a Super Bowl and been to another "too bad". He knows Arians even better than Rooney does. Let Tomlin make the decision. Second-guess him now and Tomlin will be looking over his shoulder for quite some time.

Tomlin doesn't have a track record of great hires? Everyone seems happy with Carnell Lake. People have priased Sean Kugler for doing what he can with a MASH unit. Our special teams unit has done an excellent job after Everest was hired.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 10:50 AM
You don't tell your head coach that has won a Super Bowl and been to another "too bad". He knows Arians even better than Rooney does. Let Tomlin make the decision. Second-guess him now and Tomlin will be looking over his shoulder for quite some time.

Tomlin doesn't have a track record of great hires? Everyone seems happy with Carnell Lake. People have priased Sean Kugler for doing what he can with a MASH unit. Our special teams unit has done an excellent job after Everest was hired.

Again, all we can do is speculate. Perhaps Rooney and Tomlin had a conversation (I would hope) and they came to a consensus.

I would hope that Tomlin understands Rooneys position. Perhaps Tomlin has/had a "blind spot" when it came to Arians. I don't think Rooney would just say "I don't want Arians. Get rid of him.", without a reasoned argument.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 10:56 AM
Again, all we can do is speculate. Perhaps Rooney and Tomlin had a conversation (I would hope) and they came to a consensus.

I would hope that Tomlin understands Rooneys position. Perhaps Tomlin has/had a "blind spot" when it came to Arians. I don't think Rooney would just say "I don't want Arians. Get rid of him.", without a reasoned argument.

I'm just going off the report that Rooney forced him out. If Tomlin and Rooney came to agreement to get rid of him, it's a different story and I'd be ok with that from that standpoint (though still thinking that getting rid of him is a bad idea).

Edman
01-21-2012, 11:07 AM
IF Rooney really had it out for his coaching staff, then why does DL still have his position? After all, it was his Defense that failed in XLV and the Denver playoff game.

Why? Because DL has been working with a worn-down Defense all season missing it's two best pass rushers, and still got them to play above their lowered ceiling to get this team to 12 wins and a top ranking. Now, you would think that with a Downgraded D the Offense, with it's Franchise QB and talent would finally step up their game and become the driving force behind the team?

How did this Offense respond to the challenge and their big offseason talk of "Lighting up the Scoreboard"? Their worst offensive output since 2003, and the league's WORST Turnover Ratio (With a Doozy of an Opening Day against Baltimore). It's this fact alone that made Rooney say enough is enough. Either Arians retires or he's fired.

Even if he was or was not forced out, Arians didn't give any reason for his boss to have any confidence in him and his ability to get this Offense and it's talent playing to it's potential. He was handed the ingredients to make fine Chicken Salad and wound up making a mediocre fast food burger out of it.

86WARD
01-21-2012, 11:45 AM
I'm just about out the door heading to Florida until late Tuesday.

Have a good week end guys. Remember it's just guys and gal having fun discussing our favorite team. Let's not make it personal or get too mad over a difference of opinion.:rockon:

Enjoy zu!!

stillers4me
01-21-2012, 11:47 AM
IF Rooney really had it out for his coaching staff, then why does DL still have his position? After all, it was his Defense that failed in XLV and the Denver playoff game.



Because despite that, the Steelers D was still at the top of league? And the offense was...well, it was what it was under the circumstances.

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 11:51 AM
Even if he was or was not forced out, Arians didn't give any reason for his boss to have any confidence in him and his ability to get this Offense and it's talent playing to it's potential. He was handed the ingredients to make fine Chicken Salad and wound up making a mediocre fast food burger out of it.

I only hope the OL is improved for the new OC, or it's not going to get any better.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 12:40 PM
I'm just going off the report that Rooney forced him out. If Tomlin and Rooney came to agreement to get rid of him, it's a different story and I'd be ok with that from that standpoint (though still thinking that getting rid of him is a bad idea).

Rooney does not strike me as a tyrant. I will assume for now that he spoke with Tomlin and at least let Tomlin know why he wanted Arians gone. If he just passed an edict down, we could see a different Tomlin this year.

As to Arians being gone, and it being a bad idea, time will tell. I know you are a strong supporter of Arians. I am 50/50 on him. I would not be sad if he stayed, and I am not crazy happy that he is gone. I will say, however, sometimes the removal of 1 person, especially a coach, can have a great impact on a team. We don't know all the intricacies in the coaching team of the Steelers, what Tomlin dictates/delegates.

I must say, overall the offense of the Pittsburgh Steelers has underachieved in the past 2 years. Be it injuries, player execution, lack of focus. Let's see what another coach can do.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 12:48 PM
Rooney does not strike me as a tyrant. I will assume for now that he spoke with Tomlin and at least let Tomlin know why he wanted Arians gone. If he just passed an edict down, we could see a different Tomlin this year.

As to Arians being gone, and it being a bad idea, time will tell. I know you are a strong supporter of Arians. I am 50/50 on him. I would not be sad if he stayed, and I am not crazy happy that he is gone. I will say, however, sometimes the removal of 1 person, especially a coach, can have a great impact on a team. We don't know all the intricacies in the coaching team of the Steelers, what Tomlin dictates/delegates.

I must say, overall the offense of the Pittsburgh Steelers has underachieved in the past 2 years. Be it injuries, player execution, lack of focus. Let's see what another coach can do.

I'm sure that Rooney informed Tomlin as to why he wanted Arians gone but it doesn't sound like there was an agreement if the report is accurate. It was a "this is what we're going to do" talk to Tomlin, who by all indications, furthered in an article written by Dulac today, wanted and expected him back.

We have underachieved, this year is a prime example, but I've always felt there were plenty of other factors other than Arians that contributed to the struggles.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 12:52 PM
We have underachieved, this year is a prime example, but I've always felt there were plenty of other factors other than Arians that contributed to the struggles.

Agreed, however, the coach takes the brunt of the blame, warranted or unwarranted. As we have seen in many sports, on many teams that the coach is canned when a team is under performing, whether the coach is directly to blame or not.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 12:56 PM
Agreed, however, the coach takes the brunt of the blame, warranted or unwarranted. As we have seen in many sports, on many teams that the coach is canned when a team is under performing, whether the coach is directly to blame or not.

I don't want to be like other teams. I want to be smarter than them. That's how you win.

stillers4me
01-21-2012, 01:04 PM
I don't want to be like other teams. I want to be smarter than them. That's how you win.

I feel the Colts completly overreacted to the loss of Peyton Manning and the miserable season that followed. Yes, the team was built around one player and certain changes needed to be made. But geesh...

Bruces's exit was not an overreation, IMO. Doubts about his effectiveness as the OC have been ongoing for several years. We had the chance to win our last two playoff games.....and the offense failed in that mission. Another franchise with lower standards might say that reaching the superbowl or the first round of the playoffs is a succesful season, even with all the injuries.

I repeat...the standards are higher in Pittsburgh and the decision to make a change was made.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 01:05 PM
I don't want to be like other teams. I want to be smarter than them. That's how you win.

Completely agree Chidi...

So was it smart to play Ben full throttle before the playoffs? Did that help us win?

I am just trying to get my arms this "Tomlin knows what is best" mantra of yours.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 01:11 PM
Completely agree Chidi...

So was it smart to play Ben full throttle before the playoffs? Did that help us win?

I am just trying to get my arms this "Tomlin knows what is best" mantra of yours.

It's debatable and we could spend all day talking about the decision. Even if you think it's a mistake, it doesn't detract from Tomlin's body of work (he's done a great job) and the fact the head coach should not be usurped.

Shoes
01-21-2012, 01:18 PM
It's debatable and we could spend all day talking about the decision. Even if you think it's a mistake, it doesn't detract from Tomlin's body of work (he's done a great job) and the fact the head coach should not be usurped.

That's not the way real life works my friend.......

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 01:21 PM
That's not the way real life works my friend.......

That's the way it should work. And the Steelers/Rooneys are all about doing it the way it should be done.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 01:21 PM
It's debatable and we could spend all day talking about the decision. Even if you think it's a mistake, it doesn't detract from Tomlin's body of work (he's done a great job) and the fact the head coach should not be usurped.

It really ISN'T debateable Chidi.

Have you taken economics 101? The first thing you learn is the importantance of properly allocating your most valuable resources. (BEN)

THE most important thing going into the playoffs was Ben's health. Period. By a mile. It is not even open to debate.

So the decision to play Ben FULL THROTTLE despite the severity of his injury AND his ineffectiveness was COMPLETELY neanderthal.

This one HUGE HUGE mistake alone causes me to question Tomlins ability to critically think.

In NO WAY am I a Tomlin hater Chidi....but I definitely do not blindly accept and embrace his decisions...

Shoes
01-21-2012, 01:26 PM
That's the way it should work. And the Steelers/Rooneys are all about doing it the way it should be done.

Someday Chidi, your going to have a boss who owns the company you work for.... :chuckle:

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 01:32 PM
It really ISN'T debateable Chidi.

Have you taken economics 101? The first thing you learn is the importantance of properly allocating your most valuable resources. (BEN)

THE most important thing going into the playoffs was Ben's health. Period. By a mile. It is not even open to debate.

So the decision to play Ben FULL THROTTLE despite the severity of his injury AND his ineffectiveness was COMPLETELY neanderthal.

This one HUGE HUGE mistake alone causes me to question Tomlins ability to critically think.

In NO WAY am I a Tomlin hater Chidi....but I definitely do not blindly accept and embrace his decisions...

Again, we could get into this all day. I have to pack for school. One of those things has to happen.

We were trying to win the Division and had the chance to do through Week 17. Ben was healthy enough to play, he is a stubborn competitor. There was the rust factor The fact the ankle sprain was not going to go away even if you rested him for a month. All of those things also came into play when looking at the situation.

It was a hindsight move. Sit Ben and miss the chance for the playoffs, Tomlin gets killed. Do what he did and he gets killed.

Tomlin has a good head on his shoulders. You don't need this random poster to tell the world that. His track record speaks for himself; I trust him. Rooney should have done the same.

stillers4me
01-21-2012, 01:32 PM
It really ISN'T debateable Chidi.

Have you taken economics 101? The first thing you learn is the importantance of properly allocating your most valuable resources. (BEN)

THE most important thing going into the playoffs was Ben's health. Period. By a mile. It is not even open to debate.

So the decision to play Ben FULL THROTTLE despite the severity of his injury AND his ineffectiveness was COMPLETELY neanderthal.

This one HUGE HUGE mistake alone causes me to question Tomlins ability to critically think.

In NO WAY am I a Tomlin hater Chidi....but I definitely do not blindly accept and embrace his decisions...

While I agree with everything you say, I just don't think resting Ben would have made any difference at all in the grand scheme of things. It takes much longer than a couple of weeks to fully heal a high ankle spain. Even if we had sat Ben for another week, he's still be hobbling into the playoffs. Our fate was sealed when they helped him off the field when he got rolled on. I have no problem with him finishing the season out. And I believe that was Tomlin's reasoning as well.


Our fate was sealed when they helped him off the field when he got rolled on

And that, my friends, all goes back to the oline, injuries, Arians debate. It never should have happened and the buck stops on Arians shoulders, period.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 01:33 PM
Someday Chidi, your going to have a boss who owns the company you work for.... :chuckle:

And I will be upset if I'm supposed to have control of a situation and it is taken away from me with my opinion not factoring into the decision.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 01:37 PM
Our fate was sealed when they helped him off the field when he got rolled on. I have no probelm with him finishing the season out. And I believe that was Tomlin's reasoning as well.

So your reasoning (and Tomlin's) is since 4 weeks is not enough time to COMPLETELY heal, let's just play the hell out of him even though he is completely hobbled and ineffective.

OK. Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. :drink:

stillers4me
01-21-2012, 01:38 PM
And I will be upset if I'm supposed to have control of a situation and it is taken away from me with my opinion not factoring into the decision.

Well, you'd better get used to it. Most of my bosses don't even let you have your say in matters. They sign the checks. The real world works this way.

Shoes
01-21-2012, 01:38 PM
And I will be upset if I'm supposed to have control of a situation and it is taken away from me with my opinion not factoring into the decision.

I wish you the best young man.....but I suggest you get fitted for body armor for the journey.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 01:41 PM
Well, you'd better get used to it. Most of my bosses don't even let you have your say in matters. They sign the checks. The real world works this way.

It probably will happen but I will have every right to be upset, no?

Just as Tomlin has the right. Just because it happens doesn't make it right.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 01:43 PM
Again, we could get into this all day. I have to pack for school. One of those things has to happen.

We were trying to win the Division and had the chance to do through Week 17. Ben was healthy enough to play, he is a stubborn competitor. There was the rust factor

The fact the ankle sprain was not going to go away even if you rested him for a month. All of those things also came into play when looking at the situation.

It was a hindsight move. Sit Ben and miss the chance for the playoffs, Tomlin gets killed. Do what he did and he gets killed.

Tomlin has a good head on his shoulders. You don't need this random poster to tell the world that. His track record speaks for himself; I trust him. Rooney should have done the same.

OK, apparently I am the only who feels there is big difference between Ben at 50% vs. 85% and felt UP FRONT that playing Ben full throttle at the expense of his playoff health as a very poor decision.

All I will say is that I am glad the Rooneys DON'T defer to Tomlin without question.

Bluecoat96
01-21-2012, 01:47 PM
And I will be upset if I'm supposed to have control of a situation and it is taken away from me with my opinion not factoring into the decision.

The thing is though that no one here knows how this went down between Tomlin and Mr. Rooney. While technically true, the media can change or use words to make things sound loads worse than they are in real life. I just have a hard time seeing the Rooneys going about this in a way someone like a Jerry Jones might. If everyone agreed about everything all the time life would be boring.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 01:48 PM
OK, apparently I am the only who feels there is big difference between Ben at 50% vs. 85% and felt UP FRONT that playing Ben full throttle at the expense of his playoff health as a very poor decision.

Fortunately though, the Rooneys are wise and I can understand why they may not defer to Tomlin on certain things.

Why they won't defer to Tomlin on something he's supposed to have control over? Something that is apart of his job title? That's wise?

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 01:49 PM
The thing is though that no one here knows how this went down between Tomlin and Mr. Rooney. While technically true, the media can change or use words to make things sound loads worse than they are in real life. I just have a hard time seeing the Rooneys going about this in a way someone like a Jerry Jones might. If everyone agreed about everything all the time life would be boring.

That's why I've maintained that I'm just going off the report. You're right, no one knows exactly what happened.

But if it did happen the way the reports made it out to be, I'm disappointed in the Rooney's.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 02:03 PM
Chidi

Why they won't defer to Tomlin on something he's supposed to have control over?

Something that is apart of his job title?

That's wise?

They are the owners. Tomlin is employed by the Rooneys.

Are you implying an owner should blindly defer to a coaches decision on EVERYTHING whether they agree or not?

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:06 PM
Are you saying an owner should always blindly defer to a coaches decision?

Especially with how far below their potential they played this year?

No, I have no problem with Rooney talking to Tomlin. It's Rooney's team and his input is valuable. But you don't go over the head of Tomlin, especially if you didn't consult with him which is what the reports are making the situation out to be.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:07 PM
And yes, I think the final decision should lie with the head coach.

slippy
01-21-2012, 02:08 PM
well, this exact scenario played out last year and arians was retained; you can't really fire the OC after a SB year anyway.

i feel like this has been brewing for some time, and last year rooney may have said to tomlin "lets give it one more year and see". well arians had his year and, to my eyes, failed. the QB got the hell beat out of him to the point where the team could not compete, and no help from the gameplan.

bye bruce.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 02:12 PM
No, I have no problem with Rooney talking to Tomlin.

It's Rooney's team and his input is valuable.

But you don't go over the head of Tomlin, especially if you didn't consult with him which is what the reports are making the situation out to be.

So because it is their team, Tomlin should at least allow them input into his decisons.

OK, if you say so. :dizzy:

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 02:14 PM
well, this exact scenario played out last year and arians was retained; you can't really fire the OC after a SB year anyway.

i feel like this has been brewing for some time, and last year rooney may have said to tomlin "lets give it one more year and see".

well arians had his year and, to my eyes, failed. the QB got the hell beat out of him to the point where the team could not compete, and no help from the gameplan.

bye bruce.

That is somewhat how I see it too slippy.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:15 PM
So because it is their team, Tomlin should at least allow them input into his decisons.

OK, if you say so.

Who better to make the decisions than the guy who has been overseeing the coaching staff closer than anyone else on the team?

And what does this say about the future? Who is choosing the new OC? Tomlin or Rooney?

stillers4me
01-21-2012, 02:19 PM
That is somewhat how I see it too slippy.

Yep.

BigNastyDefense
01-21-2012, 02:21 PM
It probably will happen but I will have every right to be upset, no?

Just as Tomlin has the right. Just because it happens doesn't make it right.

Actually no Chidi, you wouldn't have the right to be upset because your boss has the right to take a decision out of your hands and make it for you, as is part of their job title as your boss. The only way that you aren't in a position is to be your own boss.

Mike Tomlin is not his own boss, he isn't the principle owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I think he understands that if Art Rooney II wants to get rid of an assistant coach by simply choosing not to renew his contract, as seems to be the case here, that is the right of the owner. Mike Tomlin is allowed to make most of the decisions on the coaching staff, but the final decision on all matters on the team belong to Art Rooney II.

If your boss were to make a decision for you, and you don't agree with it and show at work that you're not happy about it, in the end that's only going to make things worse for you. You might be able to share your grievances with your boss in a private meeting, but in the end your boss will probably still be unhappy with you. Mike Tomlin knows that he just has to deal with it and move on.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 02:26 PM
Who better to make the decisions than the guy who has been overseeing the coaching staff closer than anyone else on the team?

And what does this say about the future? Who is choosing the new OC? Tomlin or Rooney?

What does this say about the future?

Perhaps it says that if they do not like the results, they are not going to blindly allow Tomlin to make all of the decisions.

So let me ask you Chidi, if Tomlin has been making all of the decisons and the team played without fire and well below their potential all year....

WHO is responsible for that?....

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:27 PM
Then my boss is making a less informed decision. That's the upsetting part. If he doesn't have control of the coaching staff, what does he have control over? If Tomlin is adament about Arians staying, shouldn't that tell Rooney something?

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:29 PM
Assuming he is fully competent, yes.

You blindly trust all of Tomlins decisions yet you castigate the Rooneys if they don't?

How odd.

...Sorry chidi, if you cannot see why the 20.3 ppg and low team morale is enough reason to allow the owners to question things, or God forbid make a decison, perhaps you are simply going to have to come to the grips with the slim possiblity that they know more than you do.

Yes, I'm more inclined to trust Tomlin because he is around these guys much more often than Rooney is. Tomlin has a greater football sense than Rooney. Again, no problem with Rooney discussing, even grilling Tomlin on Arians, but don't go over his head. Let Tomlin have final say.

I've explained the reasons for the team's lower point total. And they don't have a lot to do with Arians.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:30 PM
And remember, Tomlin repeatedly said Arians would be back. He now looks bad when the owner goes over his head and makes a different decision.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 02:31 PM
Then my boss is making a less informed decision. That's the upsetting part. If he doesn't have control of the coaching staff, what does he have control over? If Tomlin is adament about Arians staying, shouldn't that tell Rooney something?

Chidi, are you overstating Tomlin's position? How do you know what Tomlin's position is? I don't think any of us are privy to what has gone on behind closed doors.

You are placing your emotions and how you would react in your perceived chain of events. Sorry, I don't think any of us have that information at this point.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:32 PM
Chidi, are you overstating Tomlin's position? How do you know what Tomlin's position is? I don't think any of us are privy to what has gone on behind closed doors.

You are placing your emotions and how you would react in your perceived chain of events. Sorry, I don't think any of us have that information at this point.

Tomlin has made the other hires on the coaching staff, no? He's the one who said he would keep LeBeau when Tomlin was first brought on, not that Rooney is making him.

Of course I can't say anything for sure, I'm just going based off of what makes sense to me.

tube517
01-21-2012, 02:34 PM
That's why I've maintained that I'm just going off the report. You're right, no one knows exactly what happened.

But if it did happen the way the reports made it out to be, I'm disappointed in the Rooney's.

Why? If this doesn't pan out, it's not a "Ignore Dan Marino in the draft" or "Let Rod Woodson walk" type of decision. If it was the Rooneys, so what? It's their team. If Tomlin doesn't like it, he can go back to Minnesota and become the D.Coordinator again. If Ben doesn't like it, he can go back to college bar bathrooms and bring Willie Colon with him. The Rooneys haven't been exactly penny pinchers lately. Despite their reputation, they are always at the cap and even over. It's understandable if they want to see some payoff for the big bucks they shell out. I still trust them over any other owners in sports.

Quite frankly, Tomlin's done fine finding replacements in his staff. I see no difference if he hires a new OC or Casey Hampton's buffet server.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:36 PM
Why? If this doesn't pan out, it's not a "Ignore Dan Marino in the draft" or "Let Rod Woodson walk" type of decision. If it was the Rooneys, so what? It's their team. If Tomlin doesn't like it, he can go back to Minnesota and become the D.Coordinator again. If Ben doesn't like it, he can go back to college bar bathrooms and bring Willie Colon with him. The Rooneys haven't been exactly penny pinchers lately. Despite their reputation, they are always at the cap and even over. It's understandable if they want to see some payoff for the big bucks they shell out. I still trust them over any other owners in sports.

Quite frankly, Tomlin's done fine finding replacements in his staff. I see no difference if he hires a new OC or Casey Hampton's buffet server.

I agree. It's a bad decision but it doesn't change my overall outlook of them. But still, a bad move if true.

And again I agree, Tomlin has done fine finding replacements. He has an eye for the coaches he wants. If he wants to keep one, he should be allowed to do so. He's earned it.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 02:37 PM
And remember, Tomlin repeatedly said Arians would be back. He now looks bad when the owner goes over his head and makes a different decision.

When and where? Did Arians' change his mind? Your opinion was to keep Arians, many others were willing, and clamoring for, Arians' departure.
Perhaps this was the third or fourth conversation between Rooney and Tomlin over the past 2-3 years. Tomlin won the other ones, Rooney has had enough. At least this is the perceived events at this point.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:40 PM
When and where? Did Arians' change his mind? Your opinion was to keep Arians, many others were willing, and clamoring for, Arians' departure.
Perhaps this was the third or fourth conversation between Rooney and Tomlin over the past 2-3 years. Tomlin won the other ones, Rooney has had enough. At least this is the perceived events at this point.

According to sources inside and outside the organization, Tomlin had told Arians on several occasions since the end of the season that he wanted him to return in 2012 -- once even telling him in front of other coaches. And Arians had told other people, including his assistants, he intended to return in 2012.

But, earlier this week, after he returned to his offseason home in Greensboro, Ga., Arians was told his one-year contract would not be renewed -- a decision that appeared to come from someone higher than Tomlin, sources said

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12021/1205041-66.stm

Why would Tomlin tell him he'd be back if he didn't know? It appears that Tomlin made the decision to keep him, also saying he "anticipated" LeBeau and Arians to be back, and then Rooney stepped it and said no.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 02:41 PM
Yes, I'm more inclined to trust Tomlin because he is around these guys much more often than Rooney is.

Tomlin has a greater football sense than Rooney. Again, no problem with Rooney discussing, even grilling Tomlin on Arians, but don't go over his head. Let Tomlin have final say.

I've explained the reasons for the team's lower point total. And they don't have a lot to do with Arians.

If tomlin should be responsible for all of the decisions....

Then should he not also be primarily responsible for the team having such a disappointing year?

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:43 PM
The team lacked fire all year, only averaged 20.3 ppg while loaded with weapons and played WELL below their potential.

Now Tomlin is responsible for making all the decisions....

But who is responsible for the team having such a disappointing year?

Tomlin will tell you it falls on him.

For me, there's always a mix. It's not one person, rather a combination of everyone. Players, assistants, and the head coach along with other factors out of their control (lockout and injuries, two very key issues that stunted the team's PPG). Like I've said, between Week's 5 and 13, we were averaging 25.3 points per game

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 02:48 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/21/arians-departure-a-shell-game-of-semantics/

From the article

Citing unnamed sources, Dulac says that the decision came from someone higher in the organization than Tomlin, even though owner Art Rooney II said on WDVE radio before Friday’s retirement announcement that Arians’ status was “really Mike’s decision.”

and

The bigger question will be whether and to what extent this move adversely affects the relationship between the Steelers and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1181/ben-roethlisberger). Per Dulac, Roethlisberger is upset that Arians won’t be back.
Roethlisberger’s discontent also could arise at least in part from the fact that, unlike two years ago (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/07/report-roethlisberger-saved-arians/), he was unable to save Arians’ job.


We could be in for a wild ride.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 02:51 PM
So let's assume this recent report is true.

We have Tomlin saying Arians will be back. He says it in front of other coaches and Arians tells assistants will be back. I imagine players caught wind of this and assumed he'd be back.

We have Art Jr. saying it's Tomlin's decision to make.

And then Art Jr. makes that decision for him.

Nobody sees an issue with that? Was it really Tomlin's decision or "you let him go or I will".

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 02:55 PM
So let's assume this recent report is true.

We have Tomlin saying Arians will be back. He says it in front of other coaches and Arians tells assistants will be back. I imagine players caught wind of this and assumed he'd be back.

We have Art Jr. saying it's Tomlin's decision to make.

And then Art Jr. makes that decision for him.

Nobody sees an issue with that? Was it really Tomlin's decision or "you let him go or I will".

It appears to me that Arians has been a bone of contention on the Steelers for awhile. It also appears that Rooney gave him a couple of chances. It appears that Rooney did not think that Arians deserved another chance.

The boss gave Tomlin free reign for the most part. He could not take another year of status quo. Thus, I don't think we have seen the end of changes.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 02:55 PM
Tomlin will tell you it falls on him.

For me, there's always a mix. It's not one person, rather a combination of everyone. Players, assistants, and the head coach along with other factors out of their control (lockout and injuries, two very key issues that stunted the team's PPG). Like I've said, between Week's 5 and 13, we were averaging 25.3 points per game

...and this is how owners look at it too. With responsibility comes accountability. If Tomlin makes ALL of the decisions then he should be supremely accountable for the results.

So, if he is accountable it is not uncommon for owners to fire the head coach or become more involved in the decison making.

Hell, look at how the Cowboys have flourished under Jerry Jones! :grin:

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 02:57 PM
It appears to me that Arians has been a bone of contention on the Steelers for awhile. It also appears that Rooney gave him a couple of chances. It appears that Rooney did not think that Arians deserved another chance.

The boss gave Tomlin free reign for the most part. He could not take another year of status quo.

Thus, I don't think we have seen the end of changes.

Exactly how I feel Count.

I think they feel the need to be a little more hands on, that's all.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:02 PM
...and this is how owners look at it too. With responsibility comes accountability. If Tomlin makes ALL of the decisions then he should be supremely accountable for the results.

So, if he is accountable it is not uncommon for owners to fire the head coach or become more involved in the decison making.

Hell, look at how the Cowboys have flourished under Jerry Jones! :grin:

And even after a down year for the offense and Tomlin taking the majority of the blame of it from Rooney, he still wanted to keep Arians. If you're Art, doesn't that tell you something? That Tomlin is putting himself on the line for Arians?

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:02 PM
Arians is a lightening rod. Many hate him. Many love him. Rooney was patient and let him have his chances. Obviously, Rooney sees something he does not like and does not want Arians to remain on HIS team. Once in awhile the boss does step in.

Have any of you ever worked retail? You have your instructions on how to act and the policy of the store. You get a dissatisfied customer. You follow protocol. They insist on seeing the manager. The manager gives in and you look like an idiot, or do you?

Tomlin has free reign of the team to a point. It is becoming more obvious to me that Rooney had a short leash for Arians. Rooney has seen enough. Doesn't make Tomlin look bad, just shows Rooney still has an interest and he is currently not happy with the situation with HIS Steelers.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 03:05 PM
And even after a down year for the offense and Tomlin taking the majority of the blame of it from Rooney, he still wanted to keep Arians.

If you're Art, doesn't that tell you something?

That Tomlin is putting himself on the line for Arians?

Yes, it tells me to question Tomlin's judgement. :sofunny:

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 03:10 PM
I understand your points Chidi but sometimes I just think you are a little too black and white / inflexible.

I admire that, it is just not always that simple imo.

I am OK with the Rooneys getting involved if they feel the need to. It is their team and they technically have the right. Plus I do not think they do these types of things to excess. They are generally fair and level headed and long term in most of their decisions. I doubt this was impulsive just as others have mentioned.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:10 PM
Perhaps Rooney does not like the complacency that has seemed to have crept onto this team. Many have commented on the lack of intensity, lack of fire that our guys played with. Perhaps Rooney is asserting himself with Tomlin and snapping Tomlin out of a funk. Don't get comfortable, you must still perform. 1 and done in the playoffs is not acceptable.

Yeah, Tomlin can suck out or he can suck it up and push this team back to greatness, not by reputation, but by performance.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:15 PM
I understand your points Chidi but sometimes I just think you are a little too black and white / inflexible.

I admire that, it is just not always that simple imo.

I am OK with the Rooneys getting involved if they feel the need to. It is their team and they technically have the right. Plus I do not think they do these types of things to excess. They are generally fair and level headed and long term in most of their decisions. I doubt this was impulsive just as others have mentioned.

Yes, get invovled. I have no problem with that. If Art Jr. hates Arians, force Tomlin to make a convincing case. It's a great opportunity to pick Tomlin's mind and for Tomlin to be able to reason an argument to someone else (he might not have an argument with anyone else because only the Rooney's are above him).

But don't go over his head, especially if there was already a plan in place to keep him. It's a difficult task to sit back and say "ok, it's your call" if you're Art and I realize that he's bit his tounge in past years, but obviously Tomlin liked Arians a lot. He didn't hire him and didn't have to stick with him. But he continued to do so. That speaks volumes to me. Tomlin hasn't steered this team in the wrong direction yet. He's earned the trust.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:16 PM
I am OK with the Rooneys getting involved if they feel the need to. It is their team and they technically have the right. Plus I do not think they do these types of things to excess. They are generally fair and level headed and long term in most of their decisions. I doubt this was impulsive just as others have mentioned.

I agree. Not like they have a track record of bad decisions. Loved the way they caught everyone off guard and hired Tomlin in the first place. Pretty good move in my books.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:19 PM
I agree. Not like they have a track record of bad decisions. Loved the way they caught everyone off guard and hired Tomlin in the first place. Pretty good move in my books.

The owners have the right to make the decisions about the head coach. That's their job.

Let Tomlin do his.

The Rooney's are as far from Jerry Jones as possible, but in this incident, it was a Jones-esque move.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:21 PM
Yes, get invovled. I have no problem with that. If Art Jr. hates Arians, force Tomlin to make a convincing case. It's a great opportunity to pick Tomlin's mind and for Tomlin to be able to reason an argument to someone else (he might not have an argument with anyone else because only the Rooney's are above him).

But don't go over his head, especially if there was already a plan in place to keep him. It's a difficult task to sit back and say "ok, it's your call" if you're Art and I realize that he's bit his tounge in past years, but obviously Tomlin liked Arians a lot. He didn't hire him and didn't have to stick with him. But he continued to do so. That speaks volumes to me. Tomlin hasn't steered this team in the wrong direction yet. He's earned the trust.

I don't think this is the first year for these conversations. The consensus is that Ben saved Arians 2 years ago. It seems that Art had no more chances for Arians to prove this offense can get better. I would love to hear the conversation and the reasons Art gave to Tomlin. We will probably never be privy to that though.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:23 PM
And of course, I also in part base my decision on the fact Arians should have been retained. So there's that argument as well.

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 03:24 PM
Perhaps Rooney gave him a timeline and since the offense is still inept as ever they dicieded to get a new set of eyes.. With all the weapons the Steelers possess they should be able to get the ball in the End Zone at a greater percentage.. This has been a problem since Bruce took the reins and it's time to move on.. I don't get the love affair some have with Arians... He never got the most out of any offense during his time with the Steelers. It's been time to move on and Rooney might have forced his hand, but IMO it was long over due... Last time I checked it is Rooney who owns the team.. Last time I checked one and done is not the standard... It has been long over due to move on.. A new OC was needed after the Super Bowl debacle... I am glad they have decieded to move on and I'm sure they will find the right fit at OC. I took my Black and Gold glasses off a long time ago when it comes to Bruce... he was Ben's friend and not his OC.. I hope the next OC makes it clear put up or sit down.. Ben needs a fire lit under him again and a new OC is the right move IMO.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:25 PM
The owners have the right to make the decisions about the head coach. That's their job.

Let Tomlin do his.

The Rooney's are as far from Jerry Jones as possible, but in this incident, it was a Jones-esque move.

Perhaps it is time for you to ask yourself why? Why would Art put Tomlin in a place, in your peception, of discomfort? Why did Art intervene? What does Art know that you do not want to see? What does Art see that Tomlin did not want to see?

You have given huge respect and credit to Tomlin. Perhaps Art knows something, or expects something that you don't.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:27 PM
Perhaps it is time for you to ask yourself why? Why would Art put Tomlin in a place, in your peception, of discomfort? Why did Art intervene? What does Art know that you do not want to see? What does Art see that Tomlin did not want to see?

You have given huge respect and credit to Tomlin. Perhaps Art knows something, or expects something that you don't.

I don't know why Art did this. That's why I referred to it as a bad decision. They don't usually make a lot of sense.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:28 PM
And of course, I also in part base my decision on the fact Arians should have been retained. So there's that argument as well.

Again, why did Art want him dismissed? What are you missing? You are an Arians apologist, but why would Art put Tomlin and the Steelers in this situation if Arians was so beneficial to the team?

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:30 PM
Again, why did Art want him dismissed? What are you missing? You are an Arians apologist, but why would Art put Tomlin and the Steelers in this situation if Arians was so beneficial to the team?

Because on the surface, you can see the frustration. I will be the first to admit that the offense underacheived. But to me, those factors don't lie at the feet of Arians (for the most part, some blame does go with him, first to admit that too).

And I realize Art has a better view of the situation than I do. But Tomlin has a better one than Art. That's why it should be Tomlin's decision.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:34 PM
I don't know why Art did this. That's why I referred to it as a bad decision. They don't usually make a lot of sense.

You have to agree that Arians is not the be all and end all when it comes to OCs. You liked what Arians was doing, Art did not. Art gave him at least 2 years to improve or perform better. In Art's eyes, this did not happen. On Art's team, this means change must occur. Perhaps he even considered sending a message to Tomlin.

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 03:34 PM
A new OC was needed after the Super Bowl debacle...

Don't remember the defense acquitting itself very well during that game either...

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 03:36 PM
Chidi you obviously loved Arians... I can respect that.. But you can't honestly say he was the best man for the job... He proved to me over the course of five years that he was in over his head.. That's just my opinion..

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:36 PM
You have to agree that Arians is not the be all and end all when it comes to OCs. You liked what Arians was doing, Art did not. Art gave him at least 2 years to improve or perform better. In Art's eyes, this did not happen. On Art's team, this means change must occur. Perhaps he even considered sending a message to Tomlin.

I've always said Arians was a good, not great OC. We will survive without him, I said that in another thread today. But being able to survive without him isn't a good enough reason to get rid of him, especially when you're going over the head of the HC.

I thought Arians improved but that's just me and a different discussion.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:37 PM
Chidi you obviously loved Arians... I can respect that.. But you can't honestly say he was the best man for the job... He proved to me over the course of five years that he was in over his head.. That's just my opinion..

Yes, to me, he would have been the best option for us next year. If I thought otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 03:37 PM
Don't remember the defense acquitting itself very well during that game either...

You can only ask the defense to bail you out so many times.. Once and a while the offense has to step up, under bruce that rarely happen.

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 03:44 PM
You can only ask the defense to bail you out so many times.. Once and a while the offense has to step up, under bruce that rarely happen.

The defense has come up short quite a few other times over the last couple of years as well. It's not all on Arians. Allowing Tebow to do what he did in that wild card game was inexcusable.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:44 PM
But Tomlin has a better one than Art. That's why it should be Tomlin's decision.

Perhaps one question that was asked was "Why did the Steelers lack intensity this year?". Has Tomlin become complacent?

You have the opinion that you do because you support Arians. I wonder why Tomlin wanted him to stay. The Ben factor?

It also appeared to me that Tomlin had too much of a hands off attitude with the offense. There was a time out in the Denver game, I believe at the end of the first half. Ben had a huddle with Arians and some other players/coaches on the sidelines. Tomlin was shown on the screen, not part of the huddle. He did not speak to Ben. He did not speak to Arians. I would figure that he would at least want to hear what was being planned/discussed. It was like he was in another world. It struck me very strange. I did not mention it at the time, but I noted it in my mind. Something was not right.

Art had to open Tomlin's eyes it appears.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:48 PM
Don't remember the defense acquitting itself very well during that game either...

3 Turnovers, including a pick 6. We still win without the pick 6.
And a questionable field goal try with Sushi.

fansince'76
01-21-2012, 03:50 PM
3 Turnovers, including a pick 6. We still win without the pick 6.
And a questionable field goal try with Sushi.

We're lucky Rodgers' receivers dropped several wide open passes as I recall, otherwise they would have probably scored at least 2 more TDs.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:53 PM
Perhaps one question that was asked was "Why did the Steelers lack intensity this year?". Has Tomlin become complacent?

You have the opinion that you do because you support Arians. I wonder why Tomlin wanted him to stay. The Ben factor?

It also appeared to me that Tomlin had too much of a hands off attitude with the offense. There was a time out in the Denver game, I believe at the end of the first half. Ben had a huddle with Arians and some other players/coaches on the sidelines. Tomlin was shown on the screen, not part of the huddle. He did not speak to Ben. He did not speak to Arians. I would figure that he would at least want to hear what was being planned/discussed. It was like he was in another world. It struck me very strange. I did not mention it at the time, but I noted it in my mind. Something was not right.

Art had to open Tomlin's eyes it appears.

I think there are some bold assumptions going on here.

The first being the assumption of a lack of intensity. Which to me, translates to a lack of caring. A daring question to bring up and one I don't agree with. There's no way to tell what the intensity level was like. Often times, you get the idea of this during the week, not on Sunday. Are players focused in meetings? Are they giving it their all on the practice field? Are they spending enough time in the film room? Who is taking extra film home? Things we have no idea about. So no, I can't say there was a lack of intensity.

I'm sure the Ben factor is part of it. Who wouldn't want their franchise QB to be happy and trust his OC? Other factors have to do with not stunting the growth of the young players by bringing in a new OC with a different system. And most of all, he probably thought Arians did well, or in his words, "above the line". An excellent reason to keep him around.

I don't know exactly how the headsets work, but Tomlin should be able to hear what is being said. But you are right, he is hands-off on the offense. He oversees Bruce of course, but for the most part, let's him coach. He's said that multiple times in the past. He feels the guy should be able to do his job just as Rooney should have let Tomlin do his.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:54 PM
We're lucky Rodgers' receivers dropped several wide open passes as I recall, otherwise they would have probably scored at least 2 more TDs.

Yes, that was an awful game all around. But the last 2 minute drill, albeit in a bad starting field position (thank you Keryan Fox), we looked completely unorganized and distraught. Who's to blame?

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 03:56 PM
I'm not the only one that has commented on the lack of intensity on the playing field.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 03:58 PM
I'm not the only one that has commented on the lack of intensity on the playing field.

And the others making the comments are bold assumptions as well.

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 04:00 PM
I'm not the only one that has commented on the lack of intensity on the playing field.

A team which lacks intensity has not a record of 12-4.

The problem is the turnovers ratio of -13!

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 04:03 PM
And we scored the Grand Total of 6 points. Should have at least 10. But of course it was the player's fault.

Yes it was. Was Jerricho Cotchery's 3rd down drop that would have gone for a huge gain Arians' fault?

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 04:04 PM
Maybe the Steelers play tomorrow if Roethlisberger did not have his injury against the Browns.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 04:05 PM
And the others making the comments are bold assumptions as well.

We can see the performances on the field. In my perception, we lacked the swarming, gang tackling, in your face defense this year. Thus the lack of turnovers.

On offense, in my perception, we moved away from Miller/Ward and looked for the deep ball far too often.

By far, the game against New England was our crown jewel this year. We played for a full 60 minutes on offense and defense. I can't really say that about any other game this year.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 04:07 PM
We can see the performances on the field. In my perception, we lacked the swarming, gang tackling, in your face defense this year. Thus the lack of turnovers.

On offense, in my perception, we moved away from Miller/Ward and looked for the deep ball far too often.

By far, the game against New England was our crown jewel this year. We played for a full 60 minutes on offense and defense. I can't really say that about any other game this year.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Nothing I can say will change your mind. I don't blame those issues on a lack of intensity. At least, I don't see any proof that it existed. If it did, it happened behind closed doors where I have no way of judging it.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 04:09 PM
A team which lacks intensity has not a record of 12-4.

The problem is the turnovers ratio of -13!

Did you see the Steelers play a single game this season with the intensity Baltimore had the first game of the season?

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 04:10 PM
Did you see the Steelers play a single game this season with the intensity Baltimore had the first game of the season?

The NE game was close.. Other then that no.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 04:14 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree then. Nothing I can say will change your mind. I don't blame those issues on a lack of intensity. At least, I don't see any proof that it existed. If it did, it happened behind closed doors where I have no way of judging it.

Convenient. In this case you default to "behind closed doors". In the Arians case, you know exactly what Tomlin was thinking, even after discussions with Art. Convenient.

Love you Chidi, but in these 2 cases, we will agree to disagree.

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 04:14 PM
Did you see the Steelers play a single game this season with the intensity Baltimore had the first game of the season?


In the first 4 games, it was a problem.

But after it was not a problem, the Steelers have passed very close to have a record of 13-3. The 2nd loss against the Ravens is not because of the intensity!

If Roethlisberger did not hurt against the browns, maybe the Steelers play tomorrow.Roethlisberger's injury has killed the team.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 04:15 PM
We can see the performances on the field. In my perception, we lacked the swarming, gang tackling, in your face defense this year. Thus the lack of turnovers.

On offense, in my perception, we moved away from Miller/Ward and looked for the deep ball far too often.

By far, the game against New England was our crown jewel this year. We played for a full 60 minutes on offense and defense. I can't really say that about any other game this year.

Absolutely, we were up for New England because they were our nemesis, just as Baltimore was up for us.

...and I completely agree Count on the lack on intensity. I sensed that from the very beginning of the season.

This lack of spark also falls on the coaches imo.

Although with so many old players and super bowl rings...

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 04:16 PM
Convenient. In this case you default to "behind closed doors". In the Arians case, you know exactly what Tomlin was thinking, even after discussions with Art. Convenient.

Love you Chidi, but in these 2 cases, we will agree to disagree.

I've defended every point of what appears to have happened with reports or statements made by Art Jr.

And at the same time, said I am not 100% certain as to what happened because of the "behind closed doors" factor. Always said this is my opinion if the reports (people who are gathering information from behind those doors) are true.

Are there reports from Bouchette and the like saying the players weren't as intense?

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 04:17 PM
In the first 4 games, it was a problem.

But after it was not a problem, the Steelers have passed very close to have a record of 13-3. The 2nd loss against the Ravens is not because of the intensity!

If Roethlisberger did not hurt against the browns, maybe the Steelers play tomorrow.Roethlisberger's injury has killed the team.

Yes, a lot of bad things happened to us this year. I don't think we handled Ben's injury properly, but it is what it is.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 04:19 PM
Chidi, you have watched the games. I am talking about on the field performances. How can either of us judge behind closed doors?

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 04:21 PM
Chidi, you have watched the games. I am talking about on the field performances. How can either of us judge behind closed doors?

I find it difficult to judge intensity during a game. It is more of an intangible and those are hard to see as a fan. I don't know what is running through the players head (Does he care about the game?) or what is being said on the sidelines.

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 04:22 PM
In the NFL, it is impossible to have 12-4 without intensity.

The Steelers had against the Seahawks, Titans, cards, patriots, the 2nd game against the Ravens, the two games against the Bengals.

As I said, Roethlisberger's injury has killed the team and it's the same thing for the turnovers ratio.

slippy
01-21-2012, 04:25 PM
i think the big picture issue that Rooney may have with the arians conceived offense is this: ben is 30 and still taking 50 sacks a year, throwing for a lot more yards but still scoring the same number of points. the only difference is that ben is not able to shrug off tacklers like he used to when younger. i noticed this last year also. and it's only going to get worse and his career will end at 34 not 38.

IMO this is a great time for a change! ben needs to play just a bit smarter not change completely. we need an OC who can fine tune ben for the second half of his career.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 04:36 PM
Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said Thursday what a lot were thinking during the past week about why the Ravens handled the Steelers the way they did. "We came out like we were still AFC champs, and they were obviously (mad) since February, and we didn't match that," Arians said. "It was real obvious." Arians was taken aback over how badly his offense struggled, especially after a preseason in which it played so well. "I was shocked by our (offense) ... lack of it," Arians said.

Read more: Arians: Steelers didn't match Ravens' intensity - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_757036.html#ixzz1k8PzWUFd) http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_757036.html#ixzz1k8PzWUFd

1st search on Google. Not going to dig anymore.

I respectfully withdraw from this conversation. You can go ahead and get the last word Chidi. We may disagree on the micros, but I know we both love the Steelers and I enjoy everything you do for this site. Here's to a great draft and a great off season.

Let's build to number 7.

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 04:39 PM
1st search on Google. Not going to dig anymore.

I respectfully withdraw from this conversation. You can go ahead and get the last word Chidi. We may disagree on the micros, but I know we both love the Steelers and I enjoy everything you do for this site. Here's to a great draft and a great off season.

Let's build to number 7.

The first game of the season against the Ravens were the worst game since 2006.

It is certain that the Steelers lacked intensity in this game.But if the Steelers would have continued lacked intensity, the Steelers would have been 8-8 and not 12-4

GBMelBlount
01-21-2012, 04:46 PM
The first game of the season against the Ravens were the worst game since 2006.

It is certain that the Steelers lacked intensity in this game.

But if the Steelers would have continued lacked intensity, the Steelers would have been 8-8 and not 12-4

I disagree. The Steelers were arguably THE most talented team in the NFL this year.

When younger, I won several matches while wrestling far below my potential due to flu, vomiting and even diahrrea, etc.

I was enough better that I prevailed even though far less than 100%.

Point is, if you are THAT good you can beat the majority of competitors without being at your best.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 04:48 PM
1st search on Google. Not going to dig anymore.

I respectfully withdraw from this conversation. You can go ahead and get the last word Chidi. We may disagree on the micros, but I know we both love the Steelers and I enjoy everything you do for this site. Here's to a great draft and a great off season.

Let's build to number 7.

I won't let one game paint the entire season.

Ben threw for 14 TDs with a 64% completion percentage in the first half. Compared to 7 TDs and 8 INTs in the second half of games.

Mendenhall averaged 4.8 YPC in the first half of games. Compared to 3.4 in the second.

We started games fine.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 04:49 PM
But we and I think the rest of Steelers' Nation agree on the one point you brought up. We all want #7.

:drink:

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 04:51 PM
The Steelers were arguably THE most talented team in the NFL this year.

When I won several matches while wrestling far below my potential due to flu, vomiting and even diahrrea but was enough better to prevail.

Point is, if you are THAT good you can beat a lot of lesser competitors without being at your best.


The steelers are very talented, but they are not the only one in the NFL to have talent.

The eagles had a lot of talent, but they started the season 4-8.....4-8!

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 04:54 PM
The steelers are very talented, but they are not the only one in the NFL to have talent.

The eagles had a lot of talent, but they started the season 4-8.....4-8!

The Cowboys another example. Extremely talented team, finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 04:54 PM
But we and I think the rest of Steelers' Nation agree on the one point you brought up. We all want #7.

:drink:

Onward and upward, buddy. :drink:

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 04:55 PM
Before his injury, Roethlisberger had a QB rating of 95.0....After his injury, Ben had a QB rating of 68.0.....As I said, Roethlisberger's injury has killed the team and maybe that the steelers plays tomorrow if he would not have been this injury.

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 04:57 PM
The Cowboys another example. Extremely talented team, finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs.

The talent of the cowboys is very overrated, like the chargers.

But I understand what you want to say

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 05:06 PM
The talent of the cowboys is very overrated, like the chargers.

But I understand what you want to say

Eh, I have to disagree. On paper, they're a great team. On the field, it's a different story.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 05:15 PM
Brand new head coach Joe Philbin, a guy who never had the role before, will have 100% control over his coaching staff. He has the final say.

http://www.dolphinstalk.com/

Jeff Ireland came out strong and said Joe Philbin has 100% final say on who is assistant coaches are.

XxKnightxX
01-21-2012, 05:48 PM
Eh, I have to disagree. On paper, they're a great team. On the field, it's a different story.

Im with you.

Sean Lee, Ratliff, Ware, Tyron Smith is a manchild, Austin, Witten, and Demarco Murray was a steal on the draft. I think what the Cowboys lack is mental discipline and toughness , something that I will take over on paper talent.

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 05:59 PM
Im with you.

Sean Lee, Ratliff, Ware, Tyron Smith is a manchild, Austin, Witten, and Demarco Murray was a steal on the draft. I think what the Cowboys lack is mental discipline and toughness , something that I will take over on paper talent.

>Romo.......

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 06:05 PM
Steelers' NFL offensive rankings under Bruce Arians
YEAR=TOTAL YARDS=SCORING
2007=17th=tie 9th (24.6 ppg)
2008=22nd=20th (21.7 ppg)
2009=7th=12th (23.0 ppg)
2010=14th=12th (23.4 ppg)
2011=12th=21st (20.3 ppg)

XxKnightxX
01-21-2012, 06:07 PM
>Romo.......

Exactly why I didnt mention him. Romo is like the Lebron James of QBs

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 06:31 PM
Exactly why I didnt mention him. Romo is like the Lebron James of QBs

LMAO so true!

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 06:33 PM
Exactly why I didnt mention him. Romo is like the Lebron James of QBs

????


Lebron James is a superstar...Romo is far from be an elite QB.

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 06:36 PM
????


Lebron James is a superstar...Romo is far from be an elite QB.

LeBron has been know to choke in the fourth quarter in big games...

polamalubeast
01-21-2012, 06:38 PM
LeBron has been know to choke in the fourth quarter in big games...

Maybe, but it's a horrible comparison, since Romo is not a superstar

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 06:45 PM
Maybe, but it's a horrible comparison, since Romo is not a superstar

I can see that... But they both have a history of choking.

Bluecoat96
01-21-2012, 07:01 PM
I can see that... But they both have a history of choking.

So does Tom Brady....if ya know what I mean. ;)

O'Malley
01-21-2012, 07:17 PM
So does Tom Brady....if ya know what I mean. ;)

:rofl2:

NCSteeler
01-22-2012, 12:14 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/21/arians-departure-a-shell-game-of-semantics/

From the article


and


We could be in for a wild ride.

I could give a crap if he likes it. He's paid many many millions he needs to be sitting down with whoever the new coach is and pounding out this new offense early, that's what he is paid to do.

fansince'76
01-22-2012, 12:46 AM
I could give a crap if he likes it. He's paid many many millions he needs to be sitting down with whoever the new coach is and pounding out this new offense early, that's what he is paid to do.

Agreed. Ben is a professional and needs to act like one.

oneforthetoe
01-22-2012, 01:44 AM
Agreed. Ben is a professional and needs to act like one.

Really he has no choice. He is under contract until 2016 I believe. I'm sure Ben will make some kind of gesture in support of BA, like he did for Max when he was cut. However, I'd expect him to be able to work with a new coordinator. Look, whomever gets hired, is going to know that Ben is not some rookie in need of being groomed for the NFL. The Rooneys aren't about to bring in someone to "break down" Ben and retool his game, like some fans seem to want. Three Super Bowl appearances is nothing to sneeze at. Obviously, they just want to be a little better on offense.

Steeldude
01-22-2012, 02:11 AM
So does Tom Brady....if ya know what I mean. ;)

i like the jersey on your little girl. did you make it or buy it?

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-22-2012, 09:52 AM
And you can pretend you know what is in the mind of BA and the organization, if that makes you happy. :wink02: The evidence trail shows that BA said he would be back, then decided to retire after all, for what ever reason. Everything else is pure speculation. No body KNOWS the whole story, and unless something is said later on by BA or the organization, we likely never will.
True, we are all Monday morning quarterbacking here and don't know how it really went down.

I will choose to trust the front office on this. After all, they have proven they know how to run a successful organization.

Bluecoat96
01-22-2012, 10:03 AM
i like the jersey on your little girl. did you make it or buy it?


Thanks!

My wife's sister actually found it for sale at a Mark's store. It was like $2.

stillers4me
01-22-2012, 10:06 AM
Thanks!

My wife's sister actually found it for sale at a Mark's store. It was like $2.

Perfect! Adorable and a bargain!

tube517
01-22-2012, 10:37 AM
I could give a crap if he likes it. He's paid many many millions he needs to be sitting down with whoever the new coach is and pounding out this new offense early, that's what he is paid to do.

No "pounding". You know Ben wants to pass. :chuckle:

Texasteel
01-22-2012, 10:45 AM
True, we are all Monday morning quarterbacking here and don't know how it really went down.

I will choose to trust the front office on this. After all, they have proven they know how to run a successful organization.


Best organization in the NFL bud. Other teams would like to imitate them, but the gap just get wider, and wider. The cowboys aren't even close enough to see the tail lights.

Dino 6 Rings
01-22-2012, 02:52 PM
So wait...now ownership agrees with me? Does that mean my 'hater' activity was actually validated?

7SteelGal43
01-22-2012, 03:33 PM
Ben needs a coach, not a BFF.

And that's it in a nutshell, stillers :tt03:

GBMelBlount
01-22-2012, 05:45 PM
Stillers4me

Ben needs a coach, not a BFF.

Best line in the thread!!!!! :applaudit:

Steeldude
01-22-2012, 07:19 PM
So wait...now ownership agrees with me? Does that mean my 'hater' activity was actually validated?

well according to the lovers it means the haters were right because the FO is never wrong. this is why the lovers are bitter.

Steeldude
01-22-2012, 07:23 PM
Thanks!

My wife's sister actually found it for sale at a Mark's store. It was like $2.

i want one. my little girl is 7 months now. i would love to find something similar. i take it that's a store in ohio? i never heard of it

GBMelBlount
01-22-2012, 08:18 PM
i want one. my little girl is 7 months now. i would love to find something similar. i take it that's a store in ohio? i never heard of it

Congrats Steeldude.

I did not know you had a little girl. :drink:

fansince'76
01-23-2012, 06:51 AM
well according to the lovers it means the haters were right because the FO is never wrong. this is why the lovers are bitter.

Well, according to the fault finders and doom and gloomers, the FO never does anything right either, so...

ALLD
01-23-2012, 11:02 AM
12th ranked offense this season was simply not good enough. No matter how you spin it, he's gone and was most likely not asked to stay by those who sign checks.

suitanim
01-23-2012, 11:11 AM
12th ranked offense this season was simply not good enough. No matter how you spin it, he's gone and was most likely not asked to stay by those who sign checks.

And if his replacement does worse?

Then what?

Mach1
01-23-2012, 01:42 PM
It's pretty funny how some think the new OC is doomed to failure.

GBMelBlount
01-23-2012, 01:53 PM
And if his replacement does worse?

Then what?

Were YOU satisfied with our 20.3 ppg & red zone offense this year?

O'Malley
01-23-2012, 02:09 PM
It's pretty funny how some think the new OC is doomed to failure.

With all the weapons I find it hard to believe the next OC will fail.. I think the offense will finally play to its potential... Like Stillers4me said Ben needs a coach not a BFF... Plus the draft this year is chalked full of good O-linemen and I think this year the Steelers wil address this.. I am excited for next season and how it all pans out!

X-Terminator
01-23-2012, 02:54 PM
With all the weapons I find it hard to believe the next OC will fail.. I think the offense will finally play to its potential... Like Stillers4me said Ben needs a coach not a BFF... Plus the draft this year is chalked full of good O-linemen and I think this year the Steelers wil address this.. I am excited for next season and how it all pans out!

Can you guarantee any of this, though? It's also likely that the other problems us "Arians lovers" have been pointing out all along will come to the forefront. Meaning, that while Arians deserves some blame, he does not deserve ALL OF IT like the haters make no secret of doing.

O'Malley
01-23-2012, 03:44 PM
Can you guarantee any of this, though? It's also likely that the other problems us "Arians lovers" have been pointing out all along will come to the forefront. Meaning, that while Arians deserves some blame, he does not deserve ALL OF IT like the haters make no secret of doing.

I can't guarantee anything, I just have faith the Steelers FO knows what is best for the team. I for one have been ready for a change at the OC position for some time. I think that Ben and Bruce were to close and more friends then coach and player.. I have seen with my own eyes games that were pissed away with play calling and poor game management(by both Ben and Bruce)... So I do think this is a good thing and I don't think the sky is falling. Sometimes a change is needed to light a fire and this is the move I think will take the offense to the next level.. With a balanced attack and a new approach.. But this is of course my opinion and I could be wrong, but I could be right.. Sure hope for the later. I also think the draft will bring about a few good Linemen to protect Ben.. I have hoped for this for four years now, but I think this year they actually draft some O-Linemen...

suitanim
01-23-2012, 04:02 PM
Were YOU satisfied with our 20.3 ppg & red zone offense this year?

I don't care if we are LAST and only average 8 points a game. I care about winning.

But I don't count. I look at ALL the facets of the game and spread the blame around accordingly and appropriately , instead of just heaping it all on one guys plate. What the fuck do I know?

GBMelBlount
01-23-2012, 04:33 PM
I don't care if we are LAST and only average 8 points a game. I care about winning.

But I don't count.

I look at ALL the facets of the game and spread the blame around accordingly and appropriately , instead of just heaping it all on one guys plate.

What the fuck do I know?

We ALL care about winning.

So what is your assignment of blame to each facet?

Count Steeler
01-23-2012, 05:28 PM
And if his replacement does worse?

Then what?

And if he does better? Then what?

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 06:02 PM
Were YOU satisfied with our 20.3 ppg & red zone offense this year?

No, but there are reasons to explain that and not related to Arians.

GBMelBlount
01-23-2012, 06:21 PM
No, but there are reasons to explain that and not related to Arians.

Of course but it does not mean Arians is blameless as you SEEM to imply with every freaking post you make.

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 06:25 PM
Of course but it does not mean Arians is blameless as you SEEM to imply with every freaking post you make.

Sure he gets some blame, I've said that before, but not enough to get fired for it.

GBMelBlount
01-23-2012, 06:33 PM
Sure he gets some blame, I've said that before, but not enough to get fired for it.

Maybe not BUT the problem is it is impossible to PROVE whether it is 5% or 50% because there are other variables like the line and how much responsibility he has for each problem.

So you can make great points Chidi but you CAN'T PROVE 100% he has little or no blame if others have the opposite opinion.

that is all I am saying.

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 07:51 PM
Maybe not BUT the problem is it is impossible to PROVE whether it is 5% or 50% because there are other variables like the line and how much responsibility he has for each problem.

So you can make great points Chidi but you CAN'T PROVE 100% he has little or no blame if others have the opposite opinion.

that is all I am saying.

These are all opinions, of course. From a fan saying it, it's implied I can't say for sure who gets exactly how much of the blame. Just as you can't prove he should be blamed enough to the point where he should be let go.

I'm just going off what I see and the numbers I've collected tell me.

Steeldude
01-23-2012, 07:54 PM
Sure he gets some blame, I've said that before, but not enough to get fired for it.

not according to the FO which so many here say can never be wrong

GBMelBlount
01-23-2012, 07:57 PM
These are all opinions, of course. From a fan saying it, it's implied

I can't say for sure who gets exactly how much of the blame. Just as you can't prove he should be blamed enough to the point where he should be let go.

I'm just going off what I see and the numbers I've collected tell me.

I completely agree.

...and there is likely internal stuff that neither of us is privy to.

Regardless, I will say I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and have learned a lot.

zulater
01-24-2012, 12:20 AM
If Rooney did in fact make the final decision on Arain's retention, or lack thereof, I'm convinced that he consulted Kevin Colbert, and that the decision wasn't made on a whim.

Texasteel
01-24-2012, 07:12 AM
If Rooney did in fact make the final decision on Arain's retention, or lack thereof, I'm convinced that he consulted Kevin Colbert, and that the decision wasn't made on a whim.

Glad you back Zu. Hope you had a great weekend.

I agree. IF Rooney has a hand in any decision, I don't think he does on a mindless whim.