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View Full Version : Bouchette. Coach Tomlin "Bruce Arians has informed me that he will retire.



zulater
01-20-2012, 10:09 AM
https://twitter.com/#!/EdBouchette

Coach Tomlin "Bruce Arians has informed me that he will retire from coaching."”

Bluecoat96
01-20-2012, 10:10 AM
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Statement-from-Coach-Mike-Tomlin-on-Arians/14896ae0-805e-4d3c-b446-e62bd0207498

FIRE FICHTNER-

Just figured I'd start this should he possibly be hired as the OC. ;)

Dino 6 Rings
01-20-2012, 10:11 AM
well that makes me sad cause now I have to wait a couple years before I can start hating on the Offensive Coordinater cause he needs at least 1 season under his belt before I can hate on him...

dang it.

zulater
01-20-2012, 10:12 AM
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Statement-from-Coach-Mike-Tomlin-on-Arians/14896ae0-805e-4d3c-b446-e62bd0207498

Bruce Arians has informed me that he will retire from coaching. I appreciate his efforts over the past five years as the team’s offensive coordinator and for helping lead our offense to new heights during his time with the Steelers. I am grateful to Bruce for contributing to our success and wish him nothing but the best in his retirement.

The Duke
01-20-2012, 10:16 AM
Well that's the biggest confirmation so far.


http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Statement-from-Coach-Mike-Tomlin-on-Arians/14896ae0-805e-4d3c-b446-e62bd0207498

FIRE FICHTNER-

Just figured I'd start this should he possibly be hired as the OC. ;)




I started it long ago buddy!

j/k bro ;)

Dino 6 Rings
01-20-2012, 10:18 AM
So he's retiring...he wasn't ran out of town, had considered it himself last year, it wasn't us "haters" with our pitchforks that ran him off. He is just retiring from the game...

how nice for him. I wish him and his family the best.

suitanim
01-20-2012, 10:22 AM
He deserved and deserves a lot more credit than he ever got or will ever get from his detractors.

I wish him the best.

And I wish to offer my condolences in advance to whomever the next OC is. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do"

fansince'76
01-20-2012, 10:23 AM
Best of luck to Arians.

Actually, I find this exciting. I wonder what changes will be in store on the offensive side of the ball?

zulater
01-20-2012, 10:23 AM
So he's retiring...he wasn't ran out of town, had considered it himself last year, it wasn't us "haters" with our pitchforks that ran him off. He is just retiring from the game...

how nice for him. I wish him and his family the best.

Ditto! I hope it wasn't health related. I hope he has a long enjoyable retirement.

In a separate but related matter, there's no truth to the rumor that Ben contacted Tomlin to let him know that he ( Ben) would start conducting interviews for BA's replacement as soon as he's back from Hawaii!

:wink02:

Devilsdancefloor
01-20-2012, 10:25 AM
Best wishes to him and his family.

steelerdude15
01-20-2012, 10:27 AM
I wanted to thank Arians for his time as our OC. I'm not going to lie, I often questioned his play calling and wished he was gone, but I found his play calling was improving every year. I just hope that this retirement isn't because of his health and that he enjoys retirement.

steeldevil
01-20-2012, 10:28 AM
Thank you BA. Enjoy retirement.

So wonder who the FO and Tomlin will interview?

Todd Haley?

smokin3000gt
01-20-2012, 10:28 AM
I was always kind of on the fence with Bruce, but I am excited to see something new. With all of our weapons on offense, and a completely different game plan/coach it should really throw everyone else for a loop.

zulater
01-20-2012, 10:29 AM
Thank you BA. Enjoy retirement.

So wonder who the FO and Tomlin will interview?

Todd Haley?

That's my hope. He has an edge to him and wont be afraid to get in Ben's face when the situation demands it.

Mach1
01-20-2012, 10:29 AM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OfvAnWFjLlc/TxSTo-J2EdI/AAAAAAAB2E8/wKubzIwdCyA/s200/tumblr_lkn084hQy21qetge4.gif

WARNING: bruce arians fans have declared that no coordinator will want to take the job vacancy because us steeler fans are too mean, "spoiled", demanding, and we just want too many points to be scored.

fansince'76
01-20-2012, 10:32 AM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OfvAnWFjLlc/TxSTo-J2EdI/AAAAAAAB2E8/wKubzIwdCyA/s200/tumblr_lkn084hQy21qetge4.gif

WARNING: bruce arians fans have declared that no coordinator will want to take the job vacancy because us steeler fans are too mean, "spoiled", demanding, and we just want too many points to be scored.

:zzz:

GodfatherofSoul
01-20-2012, 10:32 AM
Wow, now that came out of left field. But, I am excited to see some fresh blood come in on the offensive side. Hopefully, we can figure out this o-lineman injury bug problem, too.

steelerdude15
01-20-2012, 10:33 AM
Thank you BA. Enjoy retirement.

So wonder who the FO and Tomlin will interview?

Todd Haley?

Is he even good at play calling?

steeldevil
01-20-2012, 10:35 AM
That's my hope. He has an edge to him and wont be afraid to get in Ben's face when the situation demands it.

Exactly my thoughts as well.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 10:38 AM
Well, depsite my concerns after reading the article in the post-gazette, I hope we at least bring someone in who believes in the FB position.

The ability to throw bombs is nice, but I truely miss the days when we could tell a defense we were running it and where, and challenge them to stop us. I also prefered the days when we had the lead in the end and KNEW the game was in the bag with our defense on the field; I sense those days will be coming back though.

Carolina Steelers
01-20-2012, 10:42 AM
WOW last thing i heard he was staying, but this may refresh the offensive system im excitied to see who the new OC will be. Maybe a well know name or maybe someone with less hoopla? I dont know but very excitied, about the change

SteelerEmpire
01-20-2012, 10:46 AM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OfvAnWFjLlc/TxSTo-J2EdI/AAAAAAAB2E8/wKubzIwdCyA/s200/tumblr_lkn084hQy21qetge4.gif


I'm gonna borrow this and put a new heading under it: Thank you Jesus !!!

polamalubeast
01-20-2012, 10:47 AM
Todd Haley,Hue Jackson?

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 10:48 AM
I'm gonna borrow this and put a new heading under it: Thank you Jesus !!!

The ironic part is, you probably wouldn't have that avatar if not for Arians.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 10:49 AM
Todd Haley,Hue Jackson?

The exact two names I was thinking. I hear good things about Hue Jackson.

steelerdiva
01-20-2012, 10:50 AM
Well, depsite my concerns after reading the article in the post-gazette, I hope we at least bring someone in who believes in the FB position.

The ability to throw bombs is nice, but I truely miss the days when we could tell a defense we were running it and where, and challenge them to stop us. I also prefered the days when we had the lead in the end and KNEW the game was in the bag with our defense on the field; I sense those days will be coming back though.

This.

I think it's time to get back to fundamental Steeler football...a solid running game with an intimidating defense, no matter what Roger Goodell's pass-happy, fantasy football-stat driven "new" NFL is dictating.

I really do wish Mr. Arians a happy and healthy retirement.

SteelerEmpire
01-20-2012, 10:58 AM
The ironic part is, you probably wouldn't have that avatar if not for Arians.

Lol. Your right Warden. One thing I'd give to Arians, he was a good WR's coach and remained so. Gonna miss him in that regard.

Steeldude
01-20-2012, 11:09 AM
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Statement-from-Coach-Mike-Tomlin-on-Arians/14896ae0-805e-4d3c-b446-e62bd0207498

FIRE FICHTNER-

Just figured I'd start this should he possibly be hired as the OC. ;)



it can never be fichtner's fault. :grin:

Steeldude
01-20-2012, 11:11 AM
does this mean arians' blind followers will retire too? :wink02:

tube517
01-20-2012, 11:13 AM
FIRE _____________________ ! :chuckle:
(Insert New OC name)

Seriously, I am excited for the change. Not a BA hater or lover. Haley would be intriguing.

st33lersguy
01-20-2012, 11:25 AM
YAY! That moron should have been fired 3 years ago

86WARD
01-20-2012, 11:25 AM
Todd Haley please...lol.

Steeldude
01-20-2012, 11:28 AM
i believe each year hue jackson was promoted to OC it was followed by his dismissal the following year. well, other than his year with the raiders from OC to HC and then fired.

as for haley, he doesn't have much experience at OC either. also, doesn't he have some sort of temper problem with players? as the OC in arizona his offense scored well, but the offense was absolutely horrible when it came to rushing the ball. that could a result of having warner as the QB

86WARD
01-20-2012, 11:30 AM
Yeah...I was being sarcastic in my comments. Not sure what direction they'll go with this but...

Change is good...right?!?

polamalubeast
01-20-2012, 11:32 AM
i believe each year hue jackson was promoted to OC it was followed by his dismissal the following year. well, other than his year with the raiders from OC to HC and then fired.

as for haley, he doesn't have much experience at OC either. also, doesn't he have some sort of temper problem with players? as the OC in arizona his offense scored well, but the offense was absolutely horrible when it came to rushing the ball. that could a result of having warner as the QB


The cards have never been a good team to run the ball.

If the Steelers want a pass-happy offense, Todd Haley is a good candidate. The cardinals offense has been very good in 2007 and 2008.

Kurt Warner was not very good from 2002 to 2006 and he was very good with Todd Haley as OC.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 11:32 AM
i believe each year hue jackson was promoted to OC it was followed by his dismissal the following year. well, other than his year with the raiders from OC to HC and then fired.

as for haley, he doesn't have much experience at OC either. also, doesn't he have some sort of temper problem with players? as the OC in arizona his offense scored well, but the offense was absolutely horrible when it came to rushing the ball. that could a result of having warner as the QB

I think the smart Raiders fans will tell you he did a good job with their offense. I know one whos said just that.

katmandu
01-20-2012, 11:38 AM
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/9/4/cf875336-7291-4967-8703-600f45ea3598.jpg

tube517
01-20-2012, 11:39 AM
i believe each year hue jackson was promoted to OC it was followed by his dismissal the following year. well, other than his year with the raiders from OC to HC and then fired.

as for haley, he doesn't have much experience at OC either. also, doesn't he have some sort of temper problem with players? as the OC in arizona his offense scored well, but the offense was absolutely horrible when it came to rushing the ball. that could a result of having warner as the QB

He is an in your face coach. He did have that spat w/Boldin. His other spat? T.O.

Old Article on Haley: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d810eb4b0&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

XxKnightxX
01-20-2012, 12:25 PM
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Statement-from-Coach-Mike-Tomlin-on-Arians/14896ae0-805e-4d3c-b446-e62bd0207498

FIRE FICHTNER-

Just figured I'd start this should he possibly be hired as the OC. ;)



http://e.static.memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/13121/13436621.jpg

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 12:31 PM
I wouldn't want Haley. I don't want a guy the players will pratically fear. Haley is way too much of a hot head.

XxKnightxX
01-20-2012, 12:42 PM
Call me crazy, but if Joe Philbin doesnt get hired, we get one of those guys. I dont want a light em up offense like the Packers, that didnt get them anywhere and they turned into the eagles, only relying on the big play. But I do want an offense that spreads the ball around, has a balanced running attack, and actually can use Bens Mobility to his advantage. A WC style offense might do him well.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 12:55 PM
Sad to see Arians ago. He was by no means perfect but faced the difficult task of turning us from a power running team into an potentially explosive passing offense. A tough transition but he did well. Unfairly treated by the fans but I suppose that's the nature of the business of being an OC.

If/when Ben gets into the Hall of Fame, you can bet he'll be thanking Arians in his speech. I for one am grateful for that and I think every fan should be, regardless of whether or not they liked the guy.

Enjoy the retirement Bruce. You earned it!

Nadroj 20
01-20-2012, 12:57 PM
I think this is exciting. I can't wait to see who we get.

I like Haley and I don't mind intensity at all. Tomlin will let him know how he wants things ran so I don't see it getting out of control.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 12:59 PM
I think this is exciting. I can't wait to see who we get.

I like Haley and I don't mind intensity at all. Tomlin will let him know how he wants things ran so I don't see it getting out of control.

Two things happen when you have a guy that is that intense.

1. The players respond really, really well.
2. The players respond really, really poorly.

I don't like rolling that dice.

If Haley does come here, I'm sure he'll definitely welcome it. You guys read about how he thought the Chiefs' office was bugged? Even thought the team bugged his personal cell phone.

Nadroj 20
01-20-2012, 01:05 PM
Two things happen when you have a guy that is that intense.

1. The players respond really, really well.
2. The players respond really, really poorly.

I don't like rolling that dice.

If Haley does come here, I'm sure he'll definitely welcome it. You guys read about how he thought the Chiefs' office was bugged? Even thought the team bugged his personal cell phone.

Our players get fired up after big plays all the time (AB seems to be the one I noticed most). Our young guys are always fired up it seems like and IMO #1 of the 2 things would happen.

But you never know. You would like to think this is the NFL not high school and players should be able to handle a guy like Haley. But we know that isnt true.

polamalubeast
01-20-2012, 01:05 PM
I want an offense with a lot of big play as the giants right now and who is very good in the red zone

I not want have an offense too conservative

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 01:09 PM
Our players get fired up after big plays all the time (AB seems to be the one I noticed most). Our young guys are always fired up it seems like and IMO #1 of the 2 things would happen.

But you never know. You would like to think this is the NFL not high school and players should be able to handle a guy like Haley. But we know that isnt true.

It's not a matter of not being able to handle him. It's Haley not being to handle himself. I'm all for a guy who is going to get fired up and want a guy who will coach players and correct their mistakes but not through yelling. Look at Dick LeBeau. Never yells and the players respond great.

Rage doesn't get you anywhere. It's not rational and doesn't serve any place in my world.

fansince'76
01-20-2012, 01:14 PM
It's not a matter of not being able to handle him. It's Haley not being to handle himself. I'm all for a guy who is going to get fired up and want a guy who will coach players and correct their mistakes but not through yelling. Look at Dick LeBeau. Never yells and the players respond great.

Rage doesn't get you anywhere. It's not rational and doesn't serve any place in my world.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/hartman01%20oct6.jpg

I am hard, but I am fair!

:lol:

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 01:16 PM
The offensive line likes jelly donuts too much for him to be our OC.

X-Terminator
01-20-2012, 01:26 PM
Well, the haters finally get their wish. And we can finally not have this board crowded with "Arians Haters" vs. "Arians Lovers" arguments.

God help the next OC. He's going to need all the support he can get, because he won't get much from the fans. Sorry, but it's the truth.

As for who I want as the next OC, so long as he corrects the red zone problems and has a good, balanced attack rather than go back to Cowherball, I'll be happy. I don't want to see Ben become a turnstile and have his talent completely wasted.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 01:30 PM
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/hartman01 oct6.jpg

I am hard, but I am fair!

:lol:

OOH RAH!

Show R. Lee some respect. :lol:

Animal Mother
01-20-2012, 01:30 PM
Where do I send my application? If elected, I will get a great FB, utilize play action, and have a set of plays that we can rely on when we need to gain 1 or 2 yards. Also, I will take all WR and TE screens out of the playbook. Here's an idea: when it is 1st and goal, line up heavy, play action then throw to a TE on a roll out. I've seen that play work all year.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 01:32 PM
Where do I send my application? If elected, I will get a great FB, utilize play action, and have a set of plays that we can rely on when we need to gain 1 or 2 yards. Also, I will take all WR and TE screens out of the playbook. Here's an idea: when it is 1st and goal, line up heavy, play action then throw to a TE on a roll out. I've seen that play work all year.

Why take the screens out when they work?

And we already have a great lead blocker. No reason to get another.

fansince'76
01-20-2012, 01:34 PM
OOH RAH!

Show R. Lee some respect. :lol:

First time Kemo does something stupid in a minicamp -

"You little scumbag! I got your name! I got your ass! You will not laugh! You will not cry! You will learn by the numbers! I will teach you!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 01:34 PM
Why take the screens out when they work?

And we already have a great lead blocker. No reason to get another.

Not take them out, but we definitely need to tone them back a bit. They were getting way too predictable...hence Suggs pick of one.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 01:35 PM
First time Kemo does something stupid in a minicamp -

"You little scumbag! I got your name! I got your ass! You will not laugh! You will not cry! You will learn by the numbers! I will teach you!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

lmao. I was actually hoping we'd trade him by camp.

"You're ass looks like a about 100 lbs of chewed bubble gum private Kemo!"

BigNastyDefense
01-20-2012, 01:36 PM
Good luck to Bruce Arians in his retirement!

I hope whoever we bring in to be the OC uses a true fullback in his offense, especially since next season we will have Redman as our starting RB and that's straight power running with him.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 02:13 PM
Not take them out, but we definitely need to tone them back a bit. They were getting way too predictable...hence Suggs pick of one.

That's one play. If we scaled back every play because of one good defensive play, we wouldn't have any plays to run.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 02:24 PM
That's one play. If we scaled back every play because of one good defensive play, we wouldn't have any plays to run.

Yea, but it's also an example of how predictable it was. Watch Suggs on that play. He knew it was coming. We used the bubble screen ENTIRELY too often.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 02:33 PM
Yea, but it's also an example of how predictable it was. Watch Suggs on that play. He knew it was coming. We used the bubble screen ENTIRELY too often.

If it is so predictable...

1. Why does it work well?

2. Why haven't there been other bad plays resulting from the playcall (Most will cite the near Denver fumble here but that was a bad throw, not a bad playcall).

If we use it so much and yet there are few consequences, how bad can it be?

ALLD
01-20-2012, 02:33 PM
Hopefully the next OC will bring a gameplan that keeps the other team guessing at least some of the time other than run on 1st down or have Ben drop back and scramble for 6 seconds and then heave it to whoever can get open.

I figure there is a mop and empty bucket in the janitor's storage room that can do at least as fine of a job as the departed. Give it a clipboard and send in the plays.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 02:36 PM
If it is so predictable...

1. Why does it work well?

2. Why haven't there been other bad plays resulting from the playcall (Most will cite the near Denver fumble here but that was a bad throw, not a bad playcall).

If we use it so much and yet there are few consequences, how bad can it be?

Work so well? How often was it successful? Half the time? Gimme a break. Chidi, you act like your FB knowledge is sooooooo superior to everyone elses. It' annoying man.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 02:36 PM
Hopefully the next OC will bring a gameplan that keeps the other team guessing at least some of the time other than run on 1st down or have Ben drop back and scramble for 6 seconds and then heave it to whoever can get open.

I figure there is a mop and empty bucket in the janitor's storage room that can do at least as fine of a job as the departed. Give it a clipboard and send in the plays.

With this statement, I can only assume you're calling Mike Tomlin incompetent for keeping such a poor OC on his staff for so long?

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 02:40 PM
Hopefully the next OC will bring a gameplan that keeps the other team guessing at least some of the time other than run on 1st down or have Ben drop back and scramble for 6 seconds and then heave it to whoever can get open.

I figure there is a mop and empty bucket in the janitor's storage room that can do at least as fine of a job as the departed. Give it a clipboard and send in the plays.

Why not, but I don't care if they know we're running or not. I want an O-Line that can push the D-Line back whether they know we're running or not.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 02:41 PM
With this statement, I can only assume you're calling Mike Tomlin incompetent for keeping such a poor OC on his staff for so long?

Do you know what happens when you "Assume?"

You make an ASS out of U and ME.

katmandu
01-20-2012, 02:43 PM
Here's an idea: when it is 1st and goal, line up heavy, play action then throw to a TE on a roll out.

I've seen that play work all year.Man! That's my favorite Red Zone play!

We used to run it a lot just a few years ago. Very, very high percentage TD play to Heath Miller!

For some unknown reason, BA decided it wasn't worth using that much in recent years. :rolleyes:

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 02:46 PM
Work so well? How often was it successful? Half the time? Gimme a break. Chidi, you act like your FB knowledge is sooooooo superior to everyone elses. It' annoying man.

I base it off of facts. Steelersdepot published an article that said the screens gained six yards per play for the season.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/01/breaking-down-the-steelers-2011-wide-receiver-bubble-screens/

Your evidence of it not working well and as a result, should be scaled back, is one interception by Suggs. That's it.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 02:48 PM
Do you know what happens when you "Assume?"

You make an ASS out of U and ME.

Interesting. I've always thought that when you "assume", you make baseless comments against Bruce Arians.

Yours is more clever though. I'll give you that.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 02:50 PM
I base it off of facts. Steelersdepot published an article that said the screens gained six yards per play for the season.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/01/breaking-down-the-steelers-2011-wide-receiver-bubble-screens/

Your evidence of it not working well and as a result, should be scaled back, is one interception by Suggs. That's it.

Yea, I've already read that. Those "facts" are based on HIS opinion of what was, and what was not a bubble screen and he also noted that he didn't count plays on which there was a penalty. Which means he's not being accurate on how many times it was called.

Guess what? No "facts" there. You need to scale those UP a bit. We used the bubble screen an aweful lot. I understand the reason why, but I don't like it. If you don't like my opinion, then tough shit. It's MY friggin opinion. Ignore it then!

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 02:52 PM
Interesting. I've always thought that when you "assume", you make baseless comments against Bruce Arians.

Yours is more clever though. I'll give you that.

Whoa. I've been a defender of Bruce Arians. I just HATE the dependancy on the bubble screen.

See what I mean about assuming things?

XxKnightxX
01-20-2012, 02:57 PM
Lets get one thing straight, Just for safety purposes, lets get a damn good kicker. Thats one safe way of avoiding a disaster on Offense next year. :rofl:

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Yea, I've already read that. Those "facts" are based on HIS opinion of what was, and what was not a bubble screen and he also noted that he didn't count plays on which there was a penalty. Which means he's not being accurate on how many times it was called.

Guess what? No "facts" there. You need to scale those UP a bit. We used the bubble screen an aweful lot. I understand the reason why, but I don't like it. If you don't like my opinion, then tough shit. It's MY friggin opinion. Ignore it then!

It's pretty clear when a screen play is called. We're not looking for something complicated.

Yes, there are no facts in a well-done, transparent, and thourough statistical analysis. Your approach of "one play went sour" is so much better.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:03 PM
It's pretty clear when a screen play is called. We're not looking for something complicated.

Yes, there are no facts in a well-done, transparent, and thourough statistical analysis. Your approach of "one play went sour" is so much better.

Like I said Chidi, I understand the reason. Most of which is because of our struggles in the run and much of the rest is to try to get the ball in the hands of our speed guys (or Hines for a record).

It's not that ONE play went sour; it's HOW it went sour. Suggs was on the opposite side and looking for the damn thing. Doesn't that tell you something? Your boy with his stats had an agenda when he wrote that article, so it's not very credible in my eyes. I'm not a stupid fan my friend. I'm sorry you think so, but you seem to make a lot of assumptions.

steeldevil
01-20-2012, 03:04 PM
Lets just hope our OL can improve in terms of talent and in terms of staying healthy and gelling. One of the reasons, if not the main reason, we ran so many bubble screens was an attempt to slow down the pass rush because our OL was so depleted and in some areas untalented that they need extra help.

That is just my opinion of course....

Blast away at it!!! :heh:

Improving the OL and the OL staying healthy will make everything better. Obviously. The new OC's job will be much easier if we can get some more talent and some better luck.

XxKnightxX
01-20-2012, 03:05 PM
It's pretty clear when a screen play is called. We're not looking for something complicated.

Yes, there are no facts in a well-done, transparent, and thourough statistical analysis. Your approach of "one play went sour" is so much better.

Im not a NFL DC but I can sense when the buble screens where coming. Ben either lined up a bit close to Pouncey on a trips or bunch trips formation or a flex twins formation. Same goes for under center formations. Most of them came from bunch formations and the 'bubble receiver' lined up closest to the Tackle or tightly to the outside. Like I said, im no expert, but I saw those plays coming a lot of times, and it shows 2 things. One predictability, and two, the lack of execution of when we run the ball.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:06 PM
I just want a FB and a healthy O-Line.

To Arians I say, thank you for your contributions to our success. Enjoy your retirement; you deserve it.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:07 PM
Like I said Chidi, I understand the reason. Most of which is because of our struggles in the run and much of the rest is to try to get the ball in the hands of our speed guys (or Hines for a record).

It's not that ONE play went sour; it's HOW it went sour. Suggs was on the opposite side and looking for the damn thing. Doesn't that tell you something? Your boy with his stats had an agenda when he wrote that article, so it's not very credible in my eyes. I'm not a stupid fan my friend. I'm sorry you think so, but you seem to make a lot of assumptions.

If it's so predictable, why didn't it backfire more often than just that one time? We run it a good bit, why isn't it stopped more?

He has an agenda? Ha, please. If he had an agenda, he wouldn't be giving you all that information.

Feel free to create your own bubble screen study so you can set the record straight, and stop these blind followers of steelersdepot from corrupting the minds of Steelers' Nation with their "stats".

And I know you're not a stupid fan but you are wrong here.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:08 PM
Im not a NFL DC but I can sense when the buble screens where coming. Ben either lined up a bit close to Pouncey on a trips or bunch trips formation or a flex twins formation. Same goes for under center formations. Most of them came from bunch formations and the 'bubble receiver' lined up closest to the Tackle or tightly to the outside. Like I said, im no expert, but I saw those plays coming a lot of times, and it shows 2 things. One predictability, and two, the lack of execution of when we run the ball.

Who cares if it's predictable if it works? If it is predictable and defenses still can't stop it, then it's a pretty good play, no?

And Arians has used many variations of the screen game, especially later in the season when defenses started to look for it more, to keep defenses honest.

Steeldude
01-20-2012, 03:08 PM
If it is so predictable...

1. Why does it work well?

2. Why haven't there been other bad plays resulting from the playcall (Most will cite the near Denver fumble here but that was a bad throw, not a bad playcall).

If we use it so much and yet there are few consequences, how bad can it be?

works well? what is your definition of well?

IMO, it was a bad playcall because it was easily read and defended, as usually happens. didn't he run it on 3rd and 5(bronco game) which resulted in failure too?

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:10 PM
works well? what is your definition of well?

IMO, it was a bad playcall because it was easily read and defended, as usually happens. didn't he run it on 3rd and 5(bronco game) which resulted in failure too?

Averaging six yards per play is "well" in my opinion.

Yes, it did not pick up a first in the Denver game. But if we're going to cherry-pick failures and think that one or two mishaps should prevent us from using an overall solid play, we shouldn't run any plays in our playbook. Because they all fail from time to time.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:12 PM
If it's so predictable, why didn't it backfire more often than just that one time? We run it a good bit, why isn't it stopped more?

He has an agenda? Ha, please. If he had an agenda, he wouldn't be giving you all that information.

Feel free to create your own bubble screen study so you can set the record straight, and stop these blind followers of steelersdepot from corrupting the minds of Steelers' Nation with their "stats".

And I know you're not a stupid fan but you are wrong here.

Yes, I know we run it a good bit. Arguing with you isn't interesting enough for me to take the time out to watch every single game over again looking for the bubble screen plays. I made my mind up over the course of the game, each game, and found myself saying "again?" Stats are for suckers. They don't lie, but they do decieve. They can also be skewed. I laugh whenever someone supports their argument with stats.

How can I be wrong when I am voicing my opinion? I said we ran the bubble screen too much. You just said, yea "we ran it a bit." I don't like it. I felt it was too predictable. Why do you have to make a huge deal about it? Does my opinion anger you? Why? Why can't it just be my opinion? Are you so self important that you think it's up to you to police this forum in search of folks who you can prove wrong? If so, then you need to get a theme song.

The Duke
01-20-2012, 03:13 PM
Well, the haters finally get their wish. And we can finally not have this board crowded with "Arians Haters" vs. "Arians Lovers" arguments.

.

:lol:

they'll be back by september. Only with a different last name

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:14 PM
Averaging six yards per play is "well" in my opinion.

Yes, it did not pick up a first in the Denver game. But if we're going to cherry-pick failures and think that one or two mishaps should prevent us from using an overall solid play, we shouldn't run any plays in our playbook. Because they all fail from time to time.

Let's use your logic: If it averaged 6 yards per play, then why didn't we just use it twice in three downs? I mean, it's obviously solid right?

Screen/Screen/Pass....DAMN Chidi, you're onto something!

pffft. What a joke this argument is.

86WARD
01-20-2012, 03:15 PM
Well, the haters finally get their wish. And we can finally not have this board crowded with "Arians Haters" vs. "Arians Lovers" arguments.

God help the next OC. He's going to need all the support he can get, because he won't get much from the fans. Sorry, but it's the truth.

As for who I want as the next OC, so long as he corrects the red zone problems and has a good, balanced attack rather than go back to Cowherball, I'll be happy. I don't want to see Ben become a turnstile and have his talent completely wasted.

When the next OC craps out, you can be sure they "lovers" will let the "haters" know about it...lol.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:17 PM
The thing is, you'd be hard pressed to find a more successful Steelers OC in the last 20 years.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:18 PM
Yes, I know we run it a good bit. Arguing with you isn't interesting enough for me to take the time out to watch every single game over again looking for the bubble screen plays. I made my mind up over the course of the game, each game, and found myself saying "again?" Stats are for suckers. They don't lie, but they do decieve. They can also be skewed. I laugh whenever someone supports their argument with stats.

How can I be wrong when I am voicing my opinion? I said we ran the bubble screen too much. You just said, yea "we ran it a bit." I don't like it. I felt it was too predictable. Why do you have to make a huge deal about it? Does my opinion anger you? Why? Why can't it just be my opinion? Are you so self important that you think it's up to you to police this forum in search of folks who you can prove wrong? If so, then you need to get a theme song.

It is a great argument to make with stats especially when people say it "doesn't work" that can be easily refuted with numbers.

And when we're talking about a statisitcal study vs your evidence of citing one play where it did not work, the study is going to win every single time. That's what angers me. It's not that you have to agree with me but if you want to make the claim that it doesn't work, you have to be able to back that up. Too many times have I seen people bash Arians for things that are actually misconceptions (balance, red zone offense, bubble screens, etc).

XxKnightxX
01-20-2012, 03:20 PM
If it's so predictable, why didn't it backfire more often than just that one time? We run it a good bit, why isn't it stopped more?

He has an agenda? Ha, please. If he had an agenda, he wouldn't be giving you all that information.

Feel free to create your own bubble screen study so you can set the record straight, and stop these blind followers of steelersdepot from corrupting the minds of Steelers' Nation with their "stats".

And I know you're not a stupid fan but you are wrong here.

Im not going any further into the debate, but I do have this question. Why didnt they use a Screen Passing approach with Mendenhall? or with Redman? or a Middle TE screen? Too many perimeter bubble screens, and no variation. The risk/reward of that play wasnt worth it.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:22 PM
Im not going any further into the debate, but I do have this question. Why didnt they use a Screen Passing approach with Mendenhall? or with Redman? or a Middle TE screen? Too many perimeter bubble screens, and no variation. The risk/reward of that play wasnt worth it.

Because we have an offensive line that moves at the speed of smell. You really want to try and run RB screens with Legursky, Foster, Starks, Essex, and the like? Those guys can't pull and don't do well in space.

What is the risk of a bubble screen? There's about the same risk of a RB dive but you're getting fast receivers with plenty of YAC ability in space with a much higher upside of a big, or at least sizeable, gain.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:23 PM
It is a great argument to make with stats especially when people say it "doesn't work" that can be easily refuted with numbers.

And when we're talking about a statisitcal study vs your evidence of citing one play where it did not work, the study is going to win every single time. That's what angers me. It's not that you have to agree with me but if you want to make the claim that it doesn't work, you have to be able to back that up. Too many times have I seen people bash Arians for things that are actually misconceptions (balance, red zone offense, bubble screens, etc).

Stats don't reveal everything. Yes, I showed one example. I'm sure if I had the time to go back and review every game I could cite more examples. But what bothered me is that Suggs sat there and waited for Ben to throw him the ball. It could be argued that that play cost us the game because we were moving the ball there.

There were a few times where we used the screen 2-3 times on one drive. I REMEMBER THAT, there is no question in my mind that it didn't happen, but I'm not sure if your article reflected that and it's probably due to a penalty. I don't know. I skimmed after he pointed that out. I am not a fan of the screen. Occasionally? Sure why not, but that dudes numbers be damned. It was called much more often than that.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:25 PM
If you want to make the claim against a pretty airtight study, you're going to have to do the legwork yourself to prove them wrong.

And the study didn't include penalties because of the influence a penalty may have had on a play. For example, a hold by Heath that sprung the WR for a big gain. It's not fair to count it in the study because the penalty potentially skews the data.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:33 PM
If you want to make the claim against a pretty airtight study, you're going to have to do the legwork yourself to prove them wrong.

And the study didn't include penalties because of the influence a penalty may have had on a play. For example, a hold by Heath that sprung the WR for a big gain. It's not fair to count it in the study because the penalty potentially skews the data.

Bullsh*t. You're starting to lose credibility too. That "study" was not airtight and now you're reaching with your excuses. If he wanted to give an honest assessment there are ways to have all the data and the correct analysis of it. He only provided what HE thought was pertinent to his (your) argument. You'd get as much honesty out of a "study" by Michael Moore. Plus, how do I know that he knows what a bubble screen is? He may have discounted a few for "other" reasons. That was an article, not a study my friend.

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:35 PM
"Airtight study" :rofl2:

I'm STILL laughing about that. haha

The WH
01-20-2012, 03:39 PM
I think I should start a post for people promising not to be divisive assclowns next season if the new OC has this team scoring 60 points a game (for Arians haters) or not able to move the ball 20 yards (for Arians non-haters that hate Arians haters)

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 03:39 PM
On that note: I'm off like a prom dress. It's Friday and I'm ready to start the weekend. Here's to hiring a great replacement for Bruce Arians :drink:
Here's to the NY Giants Beating SF :drink:
Here's to my fellow Steelers fans :drink:

Have a nice weekend everyone. Especially you Chidi. :drink:

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:42 PM
Bullsh*t. You're starting to lose credibility too. That "study" was not airtight and now you're reaching with your excuses. If he wanted to give an honest assessment there are ways to have all the data and the correct analysis of it. He only provided what HE thought was pertinent to his (your) argument. You'd get as much honesty out of a "study" by Michael Moore. Plus, how do I know that he knows what a bubble screen is? He may have discounted a few for "other" reasons. That was an article, not a study my friend.

He has all the data! He posted the log of every single screen he found that ended up being a legal play. It's all there for you to comb through, fact check, and compare to your own thoughts.

For what reason is steelersdepot going to lie and deceive its readers? It's not some hack site that I just found and probably ends in blogspot.com. It's a reputable site that has been around for quite some time and does these type of studies all the time. They spend a ton of time each week going through offensive/defensive participation charts, formations, and are one of the most reliable places for salary cap data.

If you're going to call it a crappy study, you need to prove why it is so crappy. All I've gotten from you so far are penalties (which if counted, would probably actually help the idea that bubble screens are successful) and the definition of what a bubble screen is (as if you need Bill Walsh to figure out what a screen play looks like).

You're not willing to put in the work like they did. Your "evidence" that it doesn't count is almost entirely baseless. Give me a large sample size of data showing where they're wrong and then we'll talk.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:42 PM
On that note: I'm off like a prom dress. It's Friday and I'm ready to start the weekend. Here's to hiring a great replacement for Bruce Arians :drink:
Here's to the NY Giants Beating SF :drink:
Here's to my fellow Steelers fans :drink:

Have a nice weekend everyone. Especially you Chidi. :drink:

:drink:

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:44 PM
Though yes, there is probably a correlation between people who do studies on bubble screens and people who got to take off prom dresses.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 03:45 PM
Though yes, there is probably a correlation between people who do studies on bubble screens and people who got to take off prom dresses.

I was in one of those camps.

HINT: It isn't the fun one.

Bluecoat96
01-20-2012, 05:27 PM
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/cantwealljustgetalong.jpg

Count Steeler
01-20-2012, 05:36 PM
Best of luck to Arians.

Actually, I find this exciting. I wonder what changes will be in store on the offensive side of the ball?

Hopefully, players that execute and an O LINE!!!!

SteelMayhem72
01-20-2012, 05:45 PM
Im telling you...Ive been saying this for a week or so on other sites and I think Todd Haley would be a perfect fit for us...I really do think that!! Plus he has pittsburgh connections!!!

Count Steeler
01-20-2012, 05:50 PM
Thanks for all your efforts Bruce. Hope you have a great retirement.

No guessing as to who will replace Arians, I hope Tomlin goes outside the circle of coaches and brings in a fresh face. This recycling the same guys over and over is getting old.

SteelerFanInStl
01-20-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm not a BA hater but I'm also not sad to see him go. We need someone who will use a FB because our running game needs one but we also need someone who's not afraid to throw the ball since that's the way that the NFL is going and that's where our talent lies. I'm excited to see a change.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 06:37 PM
I'm not a BA hater but I'm also not sad to see him go. We need someone who will use a FB because our running game needs one but we also need someone who's not afraid to throw the ball since that's the way that the NFL is going and that's where our talent lies. I'm excited to see a change.

Used a FB about 170-175 times this season. Not too shabby...

Butch
01-20-2012, 06:47 PM
Heard this on the radio on the way home tonight.

Enjoy your retirement Bruce...I know I will.

Never been much of a fan of Bruce he's had his moments I'll give him that much but I am not sad to see him go.

Butch
01-20-2012, 06:48 PM
BTW Did we ever get the official tweet by Rob Lowe???

NJarhead
01-20-2012, 06:59 PM
He has all the data! He posted the log of every single screen he found that ended up being a legal play. It's all there for you to comb through, fact check, and compare to your own thoughts.

For what reason is steelersdepot going to lie and deceive its readers? It's not some hack site that I just found and probably ends in blogspot.com. It's a reputable site that has been around for quite some time and does these type of studies all the time. They spend a ton of time each week going through offensive/defensive participation charts, formations, and are one of the most reliable places for salary cap data.

If you're going to call it a crappy study, you need to prove why it is so crappy. All I've gotten from you so far are penalties (which if counted, would probably actually help the idea that bubble screens are successful) and the definition of what a bubble screen is (as if you need Bill Walsh to figure out what a screen play looks like).

You're not willing to put in the work like they did. Your "evidence" that it doesn't count is almost entirely baseless. Give me a large sample size of data showing where they're wrong and then we'll talk.

No he does not have all the data. He has what HE thinks is the data and admitted it was skewed to what HE thought was necessary to make HIS argument. FACT: This was NOT a study, it was an article. There is a HUGE difference. I suggest you familiarize yourself with that difference.


Used a FB about 170-175 times this season. Not too shabby...

No, we used a tweener in that position 170-175 times, not a true FB.

I can't wait to hear you defend that.

steel striker
01-20-2012, 07:06 PM
It would be nice to use Heath Miller in the passing game and, especially in the red zone like it was mentioned above. I know Heath is used to block alot because, of our o-line. I still think this offense could do special things and, let's see who we get as the OC hope for the best. I hope we are better at putting teams away next year.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-20-2012, 07:13 PM
BTW Did we ever get the official tweet by Rob Lowe??? No, that is why I dont believe this is true. When Rob Lowe tweets it, its official. Until then I think its just a bargaining ploy by the greatest Offensive Coordinator in the NFL today.

Still keeping my pitchfork and torch ready while I gnash my teeth about that long TD pass the Packers intercepted for a TD in the super bowl last year.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 08:32 PM
No he does not have all the data. He has what HE thinks is the data and admitted it was skewed to what HE thought was necessary to make HIS argument. FACT: This was NOT a study, it was an article. There is a HUGE difference. I suggest you familiarize yourself with that difference.



No, we used a tweener in that position 170-175 times, not a true FB.

I can't wait to hear you defend that.

And like I said, there was a completely just reason to take out plays in which penalties occured (which is likely only a few plays anyway). In fact, as I've said, taking that out probably helps the case for those who do not like the bubble screens.

If you want to be so critical of the study, go do one yourself. Or offer something different than just piling on with your conspiracy agenda, as absurd as it is.

David Johnson is a strong lead blocker who has done a really good job, especially the last year and a half. I don't care what his title is, FB, TE, H-Back, whatever. A good find by Colbert and Tomlin. Good luck finding a "true" FB in college's spread-filled world and then finding one that you like. Versatility is so key these days, there are very few players on offense who can only do one thing.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 08:33 PM
No, that is why I dont believe this is true. When Rob Lowe tweets it, its official. Until then I think its just a bargaining ploy by the greatest Offensive Coordinator in the NFL today.

Still keeping my pitchfork and torch ready while I gnash my teeth about that long TD pass the Packers intercepted for a TD in the super bowl last year.

You're mad at Arians for that?

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 09:08 PM
And WarDen, don't get mad at me for disagreeing with your opinion. I didn't even talk to you first, you originally quoted me when I was talking to another poster about the screen game. You dragged yourself into the conversation.

And then you keep replying even though you said you were going to be gone for the weekend. Which is fine and dandy with me, I have no problem discussing you with it, but you keep coming back to me. So don't get upset about just "voicing your opinion" when you keep coming back into the discussion.

Godfather
01-20-2012, 09:19 PM
Good luck finding a "true" FB in college's spread-filled world and then finding one that you like.

James Stampley from LSU. Started out on campus as a regular student, walked on to the team, eventually earned a scholly. Miles gave him the ball four times on the goal line during the Ole Miss game just to make sure he got a touchdown. Those were the only carries of his career...otherwise, he cleared the way for the Tiger halfbacks.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 09:31 PM
James Stampley from LSU. Started out on campus as a regular student, walked on to the team, eventually earned a scholly. Miles gave him the ball four times on the goal line during the Ole Miss game just to make sure he got a touchdown. Those were the only carries of his career...otherwise, he cleared the way for the Tiger halfbacks.

I'm not saying they're extinct, but they're far and few between. And so the few teams that still use a road grading FB are all after the same select few that fit that bill.

And like I've said, David Johnson can act like a FB when he has to.

zulater
01-20-2012, 10:39 PM
Sad to see Arians ago. He was by no means perfect but faced the difficult task of turning us from a power running team into an potentially explosive passing offense. A tough transition but he did well. Unfairly treated by the fans but I suppose that's the nature of the business of being an OC.

If/when Ben gets into the Hall of Fame, you can bet he'll be thanking Arians in his speech. I for one am grateful for that and I think every fan should be, regardless of whether or not they liked the guy.

Enjoy the retirement Bruce. You earned it!

I would imagine Bruce could very well be his presenter.

Chidi29
01-20-2012, 10:50 PM
I would imagine Bruce could very well be his presenter.

To have a hand helping potentially two, and definitely one, QB get into the Hall of Fame is something I imagine only a select few have done.

NCSteeler
01-20-2012, 11:57 PM
If it is so predictable...

1. Why does it work well?

2. Why haven't there been other bad plays resulting from the playcall (Most will cite the near Denver fumble here but that was a bad throw, not a bad playcall).

If we use it so much and yet there are few consequences, how bad can it be?

Wish Arians the best in retirement, he did good things for us, but time for a change. BTW, I don't understand the Haley hype, he called Whiz's offense for him and then flopped in KC.

Twice in Denver the defense was selling out to the bubble screen before the snap, 2 plays went no where. Announcers even called the play once, "Wallace in motion, usually a bubble screen" oh and he was right Predictable.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 12:01 AM
Wish Arians the best in retirement, he did good things for us, but time for a change. BTW, I don't understand the Haley hype, he called Whiz's offense for him and then flopped in KC.

Twice in Denver the defense was selling out to the bubble screen before the snap, 2 plays went no where. Announcers even called the play once, "Wallace in motion, usually a bubble screen" oh and he was right Predictable.

And Denver's selling out on the screen led to multiple big plays for us. We adjusted and used it to our advantage, putting defenses in a lose-lose. Either not respect the screen and let us churn up 5-6 yards at a time or respect it and get fooled by fakes.

NJarhead
01-21-2012, 12:13 AM
And like I said, there was a completely just reason to take out plays in which penalties occured (which is likely only a few plays anyway). In fact, as I've said, taking that out probably helps the case for those who do not like the bubble screens.

If you want to be so critical of the study, go do one yourself. Or offer something different than just piling on with your conspiracy agenda, as absurd as it is.

David Johnson is a strong lead blocker who has done a really good job, especially the last year and a half. I don't care what his title is, FB, TE, H-Back, whatever. A good find by Colbert and Tomlin. Good luck finding a "true" FB in college's spread-filled world and then finding one that you like. Versatility is so key these days, there are very few players on offense who can only do one thing.

Weak.

Have had a little bit to drink tonight. Chidi, I'm glad you're a Steelers fan Bro, but if stats were something tangible I would have to fight the overwhelming urge to stick them up you ass about now. I'll look at this again later.

NJarhead
01-21-2012, 12:16 AM
And Denver's selling out on the screen led to multiple big plays for us. We adjusted and used it to our advantage, putting defenses in a lose-lose. Either not respect the screen and let us churn up 5-6 yards at a time or respect it and get fooled by fakes.

Dude, just stop. Our QB causes unusual problems for most defenses. He'd have caused many more if not for two things (and this has nothing to do with Arians):

1). He had a high ankle sprain

2). He skipped throwing it to other open receivers because he wanted to throw the bomb to Wallace.

These are facts and you can find plenty of literature about them if you don't believe me.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 12:24 AM
Weak.

Have had a little bit to drink tonight. Chidi, I'm glad you're a Steelers fan Bro, but if stats were something tangible I would have to fight the overwhelming urge to stick them up you ass about now. I'll look at this again later.

Unfortunately for you (fortunately for me) they are not tangible and while I hear you that stats can be deceiving if one chooses to do so, there is no evidence that the steelersdepot "article" is such.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 12:27 AM
Dude, just stop. Our QB causes unusual problems for most defenses. He'd have caused many more if not for two things (and this has nothing to do with Arians):

1). He had a high ankle sprain

2). He skipped throwing it to other open receivers because he wanted to throw the bomb to Wallace.

These are facts and you can find plenty of literature about them if you don't believe me.

Sure, sure, never argued otherwise. The player's job is to execute, I've always maintained that.

But Arians stopped being "predictable" and used different variations of the WR screen or ran plays off that to fool defenses. A prime example of his creativity. That was my point. He changed things up when defenses caught on.

SteelerFanInStl
01-21-2012, 08:19 AM
Used a FB about 170-175 times this season. Not too shabby...

No we didn't. Johnson's not a FB.

Texasteel
01-21-2012, 08:33 AM
No we didn't. Johnson's not a FB.

When he lines up in the backfield in front of the tallback, and runs ahead of him to make a block, I would call him a FB not matter what letters he has by his name. I Johnson did a very good good at that this year and hope to see much more of it.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 10:20 AM
No we didn't. Johnson's not a FB.

He is a 270 pounder capable of being a lead blocker. So he's versatile, that's not a bad thing. You have to have versatility on the roster.

ShutDown24
01-21-2012, 10:26 AM
He is a 270 pound capable of being a lead blocker. So he's versatile, that's not a bad thing. You have to have versatility on the roster.

David Johnson is a good offensive chess piece. If he improves his hands some I would change "good" to "excellent". You don't find many men his size that can block with the agility and aggressiveness of a fullback who also have the ability to execute as a tight end. A lot of teams try to use this strategy to save roster space but I think the Steelers employee it best with Johnson. He is terribly undervalued by this fanbase.

The Duke
01-21-2012, 10:28 AM
Having a true fullback on out roster is one of my smallest concerns. DJ does a good enough job

we could find a better #2 tight end though, and leave him as the #3. Saunders could be it but a good draft pick could easily replace him

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 10:49 AM
Having a true fullback on out roster is one of my smallest concerns. DJ does a good enough job

we could find a better #2 tight end though, and leave him as the #3. Saunders could be it but a good draft pick could easily replace him

Nah, I want to keep Johnson as my #2 TE. Blocking is very solid and that's all we ever use our #2 TE for anyway in our power run sets.

Count Steeler
01-21-2012, 10:53 AM
Who do we see about abating the injuries on the O Line? Because of all the injuries these last couple of years, our TEs have been overused in blocking schemes because our O Line is sub par.

Johnson has performed admirably in his roll.

NJarhead
01-21-2012, 11:31 AM
Unfortunately for you (fortunately for me) they are not tangible and while I hear you that stats can be deceiving if one chooses to do so, there is no evidence that the steelersdepot "article" is such.

The article is an article, not a study. It's not credible as a study. Nothing more needs to be said.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 11:50 AM
The article is an article, not a study. It's not credible as a study. Nothing more needs to be said.

It's still a hundred times more credible than what you're bringing to the table.

NJarhead
01-21-2012, 05:48 PM
It's still a hundred times more credible than what you're bringing to the table.

Actually, its not.

ALLD
01-21-2012, 06:01 PM
The Magic 8-Ball said it was a good time for BA to leave before he wore out his welcome.

Chidi29
01-21-2012, 06:28 PM
Actually, its not.

You laugh at "pretty airtight study" but don't find the humor in this comment?

86WARD
01-22-2012, 06:14 AM
Who do we see about abating the injuries on the O Line? Because of all the injuries these last couple of years, our TEs have been overused in blocking schemes because our O Line is sub par.

Johnson has performed admirably in his roll.

A good OC can adjust the offense to make up for some of these injuries...which Arians did at times. A perfect opportunity to use the quick release, three step drop that the team used all preseason and training camp with great success. They used it at several points during the season...again with success. But used it very rarely. Something IMO, could help with some of the OLine problems.

Having said that, the OLine wasn't that horrible this season. It was the lack of being able to run an offense inside the 10 and 20 that was the problem here...

NJarhead
01-22-2012, 07:59 AM
You laugh at "pretty airtight study" but don't find the humor in this comment?
No. Because he Didnt list ALL the facts and that's the same as lying. You also didnt say "pretty alright" and it's not a study. All your argument (and his) does is reinforce my feelings about stats and the people who attempt to use them to deceive.

Chidi29
01-22-2012, 08:58 AM
No. Because he Didnt list ALL the facts and that's the same as lying. You also didnt say "pretty alright" and it's not a study. All your argument (and his) does is reinforce my feelings about stats and the people who attempt to use them to deceive.

The only thing he didn't list was the penalties which have already been explained to you.

I did say "pretty airtight", not "pretty alright". Little morning drink WarDen?

NJarhead
01-22-2012, 03:00 PM
The only thing he didn't list was the penalties which have already been explained to you.

I did say "pretty airtight", not "pretty alright". Little morning drink WarDen?

Penalties is what he claimed. How do I know he didn't list plays for other reasons? Or count supposed screens that weren't? How do I know he's not a moron? Your standard for what is credible is too lax to be taken seriously.

The WH
01-22-2012, 04:02 PM
ok, move on fellas.

Chidi29
01-22-2012, 06:31 PM
Penalties is what he claimed. How do I know he didn't list plays for other reasons? Or count supposed screens that weren't? How do I know he's not a moron? Your standard for what is credible is too lax to be taken seriously.

Because there is no reason to think otherwise. The site has been fair when it comes o Arians, putting up posts of articles of people of who don't like him, and posted all of the information in the article.

You have zero information to show that he isn't being credible. Because you're not willing to put in the work to prove him wrong.

Texasteel
01-22-2012, 06:55 PM
Gentlemen, please don't let this get out of hand.

NJarhead
01-23-2012, 08:17 AM
Because there is no reason to think otherwise. The site has been fair when it comes o Arians, putting up posts of articles of people of who don't like him, and posted all of the information in the article.

You have zero information to show that he isn't being credible. Because you're not willing to put in the work to prove him wrong.

Look kid, maybe when you go to big boy school you'll understand what I'm talking about. For now, this discussion is over so you can have your precious last word if you wish, but I'm done arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge a non-credible reference for what it is. You don't like my opinion? Tough *poop*. You've done nothing to disprove my opinion but cite an article with cherry picked facts in it. K? k.

Chidi29
01-23-2012, 09:55 AM
Look kid, maybe when you go to big boy school you'll understand what I'm talking about. For now, this discussion is over so you can have your precious last word if you wish, but I'm done arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge a non-credible reference for what it is. You don't like my opinion? Tough *poop*. You've done nothing to disprove my opinion but cite an article with cherry picked facts in it. K? k.

Hey, I never said you had to jump into the conversation. I never responded to you first, you responded to me. And after you repeatedly said you were going to walk away from the conversation, you kept coming back. So don't get mad at me for you choosing to stay involved with the conversation. We could have ended this a few days ago had you dropped out of the debate like you said you were going to.

You're claiming it is cherry-picking facts without any proof of such cherry-picking. Nobody needs to have any typoe of schooling to see how delusional your argument is.

Texasteel
01-23-2012, 06:21 PM
Please let this be the last of it, or this thread will be locked.

SteelGhost
01-23-2012, 09:53 PM
Have a nice retirement Bruce, thank you for the POSITIVES you brought to the table :thumbsup: