Has Eli eclipsed Ben as the best of 2004?

[zulater]

Right now it's hard to argue he hasn't. And maybe if this thought gains traction in the national media it will put the chip back on Ben's shoulder that he came into the league with?

[Count Steeler]

Tough argument, especially if Eli wins another SB. Sure had a better year than Ben.

[polamalubeast]

One thing is sure...Ben and Eli >>>>> Rivers

[fansince'76]

If the Giants played in the AFCN, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs this season...

[polamalubeast]

If the Giants played in the AFCN, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs this season...

Giants > Bengals

[fansince'76]

Giants > Bengals

AFCN > NFCE

[polamalubeast]

AFCN > NFCE

Yes, but I think the Giants have at least 10-6 with the schedule of bengals.

[Count Steeler]

Moot point. Giants are winning. They may get back to the SB.

[Edman]

Yes.

Eli just knocked off All-World Aaron Rodgers.

Ben was outplayed by Rodgers and just got Tebow'd in the postseason this year.

[ALLD]

Manning has not been banged up for the last 6 years either beginning with a Hyabusa.

[fansince'76]

Yes.

Eli just knocked off All-World Aaron Rodgers.

Ben was outplayed by Rodgers and just got Tebow'd in the postseason this year.

Since when did Ben start playing D?

[kmsteelerwr15]

I'd love to see Eli play behind this o-line

[Edman]

Manning has not been banged up for the last 6 years either beginning with a Hyabusa.

Eli Manning also didn't get out gamed by Tebow.

Sorry, Ben pretty much lost his credibility this year that already disappating with his subpar performance in XLV.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I hate to say it but you can make the argument most definitely. The Giants do however have a far superior O-line and better receiving corp. Yeah you read that right.

[Carolina Steelers]

Since when did Ben start playing D?

Yea i agree, the giants defense as been good in the post season made the Falcons look awful, now the Packers.

[Bluecoat96]

I feel this is only a valid argument for the last month of the season plus the Broncos game. Ben was having just as good a year with a much better winning percentage overall. Eli has had a good year though and has thrown for a gazillion yards.

[fansince'76]

Eli Manning also didn't get out gamed by Tebow.

No, he got "out gamed" by Tavaris Jackson, Charlie Whitehurst, Vince Young and Rex Grossman - all at home. :coffee:

[zulater]

I'd still take Ben over Eli. But barely, and I have to wonder if I'm being a homer about it? :noidea: Which never would have been the case before .Regardless being compared to Eli is far from an insult. The guy went into this season claiming he was elite, and by God he sure has backed it up and proved it.

[GodfatherofSoul]

Eli is just way too inconsistent, including this year. Ben's crap games come from injuries. Plus, Eli disappears for whole seasons.

[zulater]

No, he got "out gamed" by Tavaris Jackson, Charlie Whitehurst, Vince Young and Rex Grossman - all at home. :coffee:

If you're going to look at it that way Ben got beat by Flacco twice this year!

[Iron Steeler]

Right now it's hard to argue he hasn't. And maybe if this thought gains traction in the national media it will put the chip back on Ben's shoulder that he came into the league with?

Please do it eli. we need something to get this man motivated again

[The Duke]

They are pretty close that's for sure

Eli has too many stretches when he seems to dumb to be playing QB, but when he's on fire (like lately) he's like Peyton out there

[BigPoppaG]

I wouldn't go that far. Let's see how he does next weekend before we throw around wild statements like that. lol

[steelreserve]

No way. Eli's still up and down like a bipolar chick. You never know which Eli is going to show up, and that sometimes goes for a whole season at a time.

[Kittyfish]

Reluctantly have to agree with everything zu has said, esp if Eli wins another Super Bowl. I'll still take Ben and wouldn't trade him for anybody, but Eli has looked really impressive lately. Really, either way you can't go wrong right now, and whatever Eli does doesn't take away from what Ben has accomplished, and earlier in his career as well. I believe Ben still has more to give - I ain't throwing him under the bus just yet. But Eli has pulled up neck and neck beside Ben as far as the QB of 2004 goes, I think.

[steelerdude15]

So one year is going to determine who's the better quarterback? Let's not forget Eli's inconsistency throughout his career, the powerful offensive line he's always had until recently, the many fundamental mistakes hes made, and he can't take nearly as many hits as Ben. ALSO, the Giants were swept by the Redskins this year who were much worse than the Ravens. The Ravens are in the AFC Championship game while the Redskins went 5-11.

[X-Terminator]

Are we just going to start throwing every one of our players under the bus now that they're out? What the hell is wrong with you people? :doh2:

[BlastFurnace]

I think that Eli has better offensive coaches and system than the Steelers.

The Giants offense actually uses the RB's and TE's in their passing offense.

I wouldn't trade Ben for Eli though. I would trade the Steelers offensive philosophy for the Giants offensive philosophy though.

[Bluecoat96]

Are we just going to start throwing every one of our players under the bus now that they're out? What the hell is wrong with you people? :doh2:

You stop with your voice of reason. :wink02::sarcasm2:

[GBMelBlount]

If you're going to look at it that way Ben got beat by Flacco twice this year!

A mediocre quarterback on an excellent team who happened to go 12-4 and is in the AFC championship game.

Not a good argument.

[polamalubeast]

I love Eli but Ben has better stats and more rings

[zulater]

Are we just going to start throwing every one of our players under the bus now that they're out? What the hell is wrong with you people? :doh2:

How is comparing Ben to Eli throwing him under the bus? Eli is a damn good quarterback. I think I'm asking a valid question. If your answer is Ben, that's fine.

[X-Terminator]

How is comparing Ben to Eli throwing him under the bus? Eli is a damn good quarterback. I think I'm asking a valid question. If your answer is Ben, that's fine.

The fact is this question doesn't even come up if the Steelers are still playing. You know it, I know it, and everyone on this message board knows it.

[zulater]

A mediocre quarterback on an excellent team who happened to go 12-4 and is in the AFC championship game.

Not a good argument.

Ben's lost to some dog quarterback's over the years too. Grakowski of Oakland comes to mind. I just don't think it's a valid criticism of Eli to point out his Giants team lost to the Seahawks and Taveras Jackson etc...He's become one of the league's better quarterbacks. Why does that threaten people?

[zulater]

The fact is this question doesn't even come up if the Steelers are still playing. You know it, I know it, and everyone on this message board knows it.

If I was asking if Ben was still the best qb in the AFC North your point would be valid. I promis even if Flaccid wins the Super Bowl I wont go there.

But Ben, Eli, and Rivers will always be bound by the draft class they were in, and throughout their careers the comparisons have been made as to what they've accomplished and where they stand now. Right now I would say a lot of non Steelers fans, even ones that aren't caught up in the moment would think it's pretty close between Ben and Eli.

Put it this way, if you asked 32 G.M's around the league if they had a big game to win next week,( health notwithstanding) and you asked them who they would rather have between Ben and Eli, I'd wager it'd be a fairly even split.

[st33lersguy]

I believe that he Giants did not win the Super Bowl yet, then whether or not Eli is better than Ben can be debatable. Even if Eli does win this year, I still prefer Ben, no QB is tougher, does more with less at the OL position or eludes defenders better than Ben. Besides other than this year and the '07 playoff run, Eli's career has been less than spectacular

[X-Terminator]

If I was asking if Ben was still the best qb in the AFC North your point would be valid. I promis even if Flaccid wins the Super Bowl I wont go there.

But Ben, Eli, and Rivers will always be bound by the draft class they were in, and throughout their careers the comparisons have been made as to what they've accomplished and where they stand now. Right now I would say a lot of non Steelers fans, even ones that aren't caught up in the moment would think it's pretty close between Ben and Eli.

Put it this way, if you asked 32 G.M's around the league if they had a big game to win next week,( health notwithstanding) and you asked them who they would rather have between Ben and Eli, I'd wager it'd be a fairly even split.

Throughout their careers, stats-wise, Ben has been the better QB. Even if Eli wins the SB this season, Ben will still be the better QB. Eli once led the league in interceptions and the Giants didn't make the playoffs last season in part because he was awful after their RBs got hurt. Couldn't will them into victories. This year he has come up with big performances in big games - I will give him that. But it has NOT been the norm for him, the SB notwithstanding. Ben, on the other hand, has actually led his team to a comeback win on the biggest stage of them all and was instrumental in the Steelers winning 3 games on the road against the 3 top seeds in the AFC in 2005. No, Eli is not the better QB, and sure as hell wouldn't survive here with the terrible OLs that Ben has had to deal with over the past 5 seasons.

[steeldevil]

No.

[BigNastyDefense]

If this is the type of stupidity that's going to be on this board throughout the offseason, I will see you all for the draft and then when training camp starts.

QUARTERBACKS DO NOT COMPETE AGAINST EACH OTHER!

Eli is a damn good quarterback. Ben is a damn good quarterback.

Put Eli behind this line, and the Steelers probably don't win ten games. Put Ben behind Eli's line, and the Giants likely win 14 games. Both quarterbacks are in two totally different scenarios....and last I checked Ben spent the last month or so on a gimpy ankle and Eli isn't injured.

[GBMelBlount]

If this is the type of stupidity that's going to be on this board throughout the offseason, I will see you all for the draft and then when training camp starts.

QUARTERBACKS DO NOT COMPETE AGAINST EACH OTHER!

Eli is a damn good quarterback. Ben is a damn good quarterback.

Put Eli behind this line, and the Steelers probably don't win ten games. Put Ben behind Eli's line, and the Giants likely win 14 games. Both quarterbacks are in two totally different scenarios....and last I checked Ben spent the last month or so on a gimpy ankle and Eli isn't injured.

Well said.

[salamander]

If this is the type of stupidity that's going to be on this board throughout the offseason, I will see you all for the draft and then when training camp starts.

QUARTERBACKS DO NOT COMPETE AGAINST EACH OTHER!

Eli is a damn good quarterback. Ben is a damn good quarterback.

Put Eli behind this line, and the Steelers probably don't win ten games. Put Ben behind Eli's line, and the Giants likely win 14 games. Both quarterbacks are in two totally different scenarios....and last I checked Ben spent the last month or so on a gimpy ankle and Eli isn't injured.

This!

[zulater]

All I know is I see Eli throwing the ball down the field with accuracy, making good decisions, and converting 3rd downs of any distance with ease. And oh yeah, putting points up on the scoreboard! Right now he's playing better than Ben was pre injury.

Again I'm not saying I'd take him over Ben, I wouldn't. But to suggest the question this thread poses is stupid and offensive is ridiculous.

[NJarhead]

Eli has had more success staying healthy and he "may" have better pure QB numbers, but Ben is a winner and always has been. I'd be willing to bet Ben has more wins (despite missed starts) than Eli, and if examined Ben has probably faced a higher level of competition than Eli with more success. To be honest, it's a tough comparison since they play so differently and bring different things to the table.

[zulater]

I had never put Eli in top 5 QBs, never ahead of Ben. Should I do both now? Have a feeling we talk about this on 93.7 The Fan this week

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeStarkey1

Joe Starkey posted this on twitter 29 minutes ago. which was after this thread was made. So do great minds think alike, or is he reading the board and stealing my idea? :chuckle:

[polamalubeast]

I hate the comparison

But this year, Eli Manning is the best QB in the NFL after Brady, Brees and Rodgers.

The Giants have had a lot of injury to the defense and if the Giants made ​​the playoffs is because of Eli Manning. Eli Manning is very clutch and won against a team of 15-1 and 18-0 in his career!

Roethlisberger has a better career than Eli, but this year, Eli was amazing.

Also, Eli performences in 2007 playoffs are very underrated, like Roethlisberger in 2005 before the Super Bowl.

[X-Terminator]

All I can do is SMH...because I honestly don't know what else to say. I guess Ben is going to have to prove the doubters wrong. Again.

[zulater]

All I can do is SMH...because I honestly don't know what else to say. I guess Ben is going to have to prove the doubters wrong. Again.

As we all anxiously hope and anticipate he will.

Don't make it out as if this comparison is a condemnation of Ben.

[Steeldude]

i don't think the steelers could beat the giants. perhaps if the giants' backup QB was playing. the steelers haven't played well against teams with average to good QBs. heck, they couldn't even beat the broncos who didn't have a QB...lol.

[pepsyman1]

I think that Eli has better offensive coaches and system than the Steelers.

The Giants offense actually uses the RB's and TE's in their passing offense.

I wouldn't trade Ben for Eli though. I would trade the Steelers offensive philosophy for the Giants offensive philosophy though.

BINGO! Very well stated. If nothing else they were far more effective putting the ball in the end zone. They scored almost 70 more points than we did for the season. That's better than 4 more points per game average.

[steel striker]

Was Eli hurt at all this year? Did the giants have a make shift o-line? The Giants were a 8-8 team and, yes Eli did have a good year. I still would take Ben over Eli and, look the it is no excuse but, Ben & the steelers were just a beat up group. I would take a healthy Ben over anyone else with this o-line.

[zulater]

Eli set an NFL record for 4th quarter touchdown passes this season. They guy's money when it counts. Ben was awful in the 4th quarter for the most part this season, even before he got hurt.

If you took this question to a non Steelers site the consensus would probably be the Polar opposite of what it is here.

But again knowing what I know of Ben, what he has to deal with etc... I still think he's the better player. But things have really tightened up between the two, and as I said in the opening post, it would be nice if Ben took some umbrage to the thought that the national perception is that Eli has eclipsed him, and that he's no longer viewed as the best qb of his draft class. Because in the past Ben's best play often came when he had the biggest chip on his shoulder.

[suitanim]

Eli had a couple crap games this year. He has a better OL. He wasn't gimpy at the end when it counted most.

This is dumb. You can't compare three weeks of data and make a logical conclusion about 6 years of work.

[zulater]

Eli had a couple crap games this year. He has a better OL. He wasn't gimpy at the end when it counted most.

This is dumb. You can't compare three weeks of data and make a logical conclusion about 6 years of work.


Eli set the NFL record for 4th quarter touchdown passes in the last 3 weeks?

[NCSteeler]

AFCN > NFCE


Guess we will get to find out next season

[NCSteeler]

I think that Eli has better offensive coaches and system than the Steelers.

The Giants offense actually uses the RB's and TE's in their passing offense.

I wouldn't trade Ben for Eli though. I would trade the Steelers offensive philosophy for the Giants offensive philosophy though.

^^^^^^^THIS

[NCSteeler]

Are we just going to start throwing every one of our players under the bus now that they're out? What the hell is wrong with you people? :doh2:

I don't think he's throwing anyone under the bus, over react much? It a fair discussion and a point that will be argued for years to come.

Also, If the Steelers were still in it to the end, I think it would be huge discussion. Ben vs. Eli in the Super Bowl would haev made this a national debate.

[NCSteeler]

Throughout their careers, stats-wise, Ben has been the better QB. Even if Eli wins the SB this season, Ben will still be the better QB. Eli once led the league in interceptions and the Giants didn't make the playoffs last season in part because he was awful after their RBs got hurt. Couldn't will them into victories. This year he has come up with big performances in big games - I will give him that. But it has NOT been the norm for him, the SB notwithstanding. Ben, on the other hand, has actually led his team to a comeback win on the biggest stage of them all and was instrumental in the Steelers winning 3 games on the road against the 3 top seeds in the AFC in 2005. No, Eli is not the better QB, and sure as hell wouldn't survive here with the terrible OLs that Ben has had to deal with over the past 5 seasons.

Eli didn't lead his team to a win on the biggest stage of them all? I'd take Ben, but you cannot discount Eli's coming up huge against the Pats

[NCSteeler]

All I know is I see Eli throwing the ball down the field with accuracy, making good decisions, and converting 3rd downs of any distance with ease. And oh yeah, putting points up on the scoreboard! Right now he's playing better than Ben was pre injury.

Again I'm not saying I'd take him over Ben, I wouldn't. But to suggest the question this thread poses is stupid and offensive is ridiculous.

Ben's deep ball almost couldn't be worse, right now. A big reason Wallace seemed to disappear.

[GBMelBlount]

Interesting that Eli has somewhat of a breakout year the first year Peyton didn't play.

[X-Terminator]

I don't think he's throwing anyone under the bus, over react much? It a fair discussion and a point that will be argued for years to come.

Also, If the Steelers were still in it to the end, I think it would be huge discussion. Ben vs. Eli in the Super Bowl would haev made this a national debate.

That's the only time this discussion comes up if the Steelers were still playing. Otherwise, it would not, and you cannot convince me otherwise. You evidently do not know or understand your own fan base.


Eli didn't lead his team to a win on the biggest stage of them all? I'd take Ben, but you cannot discount Eli's coming up huge against the Pats

Yes, he did, and he gets full marks for that. I'm just making a point in defense of Ben. He will never get the respect he has earned or deserves, not even from his own fans. I'm not sure what else the man has to do short of having an Aaron Rodgers-type season, and I'm not even sure that would be enough.

BTW, next time you quote multiple posts, use the multi-quote button (the "quote" symbol in the bottom right corner of every post, next to "reply with quote"), like I did with this post. That way, you don't have to make a separate post whenever you reply to a post.

[Kittyfish]

Interesting that Eli has somewhat of a breakout year the first year Peyton didn't play.


Speaking as a little sister, I've been wondering about that too. This is the first time Eli hasn't played under his brother's shadow and he's really blossomed.

I'd quote and agree with all of zulater's posts but that would double the size of the thread. I was thinking that Eli had pulled himself up next to Ben in the eyes of the sports world even before seeing zu's thoughts. Look, neither of us would trade Ben for Eli - and understand, I love Ben - but even as we speak, Mike & Mike are debating whether Eli is on a par with his brother and if he will eclipse him with another SB win, and the general concensus is "yes". I realize all the talk and praise is largely because this has just happened and is fresh in everyone's memory but there is no doubt Eli is playing lights out right now.

I hope it does put a chip on Ben's shoulder - I think he could use one. None of us here would trade Ben for anybody - and Ben never got the respect he deserves - but in the sports media, they are all about Eli. Ben, Eli and Rivers are forever linked in their eyes and I think today Eli is on top except for the Steeler fans.

[fansince'76]

Guess we will get to find out next season

I was actually speaking in terms of this year only. I believe the AFC North is the only division in the league to have 3 playoff teams in it, and 2 of those having substantially better records than the Giants this season. That's all.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Seriously...sometimes people ask questions just to be controversial...

Eli = 1 Super Bowl Appearance, 1 Win
Ben = 3 Super Bowl Apperances, 2 Wins

whats the fcking debate?

[GBMelBlount]

Seriously...sometimes people ask questions just to be controversial...

Eli = 1 Super Bowl Appearance, 1 Win
Ben = 3 Super Bowl Apperances, 2 Wins

whats the fcking debate?

Ummmm, possibly the other 100+ games.

Just curious, what was Ben's QB rating when we beat Seattle?

Point is there are 22+ players on a Super Bowl winning (or losing) team...so while I agree Super Bowls ARE important, so is the rest of their body of work.

[GBMelBlount]

Speaking as a little sister, I've been wondering about that too. This is the first time Eli hasn't played under his brother's shadow and he's really blossomed.



My thoughts exactly.

I wonder if knowing he would not be scrutinezed / compared to his brother this year every time he made a mistake eased his mind a bit and allowed him to play a bit more relaxed and productively.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Ummmm, possibly the other 100+ games.

Just curious, what was Ben's QB rating when we beat Seattle?

Point is there are 22+ players on a Super Bowl winning (or losing) team...so while I agree Super Bowls ARE important, so is the rest of their body of work.

Just curious, what was Ben's QB Rating in the playoff games up to Beating Seattle?

let me know when Eli has 2 rings (which I am rooting for cause I like Eli and prefer the Giants to win) and has been to 3 SBs before we call him "better" than Ben. He also has the benefit of playing on a pretty good team with a Good Oline and Great Defense and great running game.

[GBMelBlount]

Just curious, what was Ben's QB Rating in the playoff games up to Beating Seattle?

let me know when Eli has 2 rings (which I am rooting for cause I like Eli and prefer the Giants to win) and has been to 3 SBs before we call him "better" than Ben. He also has the benefit of playing on a pretty good team with a Good Oline and Great Defense and great running game.

EXACTLY.

My only point is that while superbowl wins are important, there is a little more to it.

[fansince'76]

Point is there are 22+ players on a Super Bowl winning (or losing) team...so while I agree Super Bowls ARE important, so is the rest of their body of work.

Cool.

Roethlisberger:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Roethlisberger.jpg

Manning:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Manning.jpg

Besides the obvious superiority in yards per attempt and completion percentage and QB rating, Ben also has a higher TD-per-attempt ratio (1:20.08 Attempts vs. 1:21.19 Attempts) and a lower INT-per-attempt ratio (1:33.13 Attempts vs. 1:30.39 Attempts) than Manning.

Advantage: Roethlisberger. Clearly.

[X-Terminator]

Sorry, but there is no way in hell Eli is a better QB than Peyton, and he'd tell you that himself. When he comes close to Peyton's records, then maybe he'll be in the conversation, but right now...please. Mike and Mike are just like all the other talking heads looking for something to talk about and stir the pot for ratings. They both should know better than that.

God, this Eli love is already getting ridiculous...and I like the guy. I hope they don't turn him into the next Marsha or Little Timmy Tebow.

[Dino 6 Rings]

But, in the end...Joe Montana and Terry B have 4 Rings...that's it.

That is the most important stat of all stats. They both are Legends for all time. You can have all the passing stats you want...Marino or be loved by a town for decades and get one ring Favre...but in the end, 4 Rings trumps all others stats and debates. It really does. (Sure Terry haters will say it was because he had 8 fellow HOF players on his team but I suggest, if QB is the most important position on the other 31 teams in the league, then it is also for the 4 time Champions 1970s Steelers)

Rings...it is all about Rings. Ben needs to remember that, instead of worrying about trying to be MVP or make highlights, just play to win Rings and he'll do so much better. Eli is playing for a Ring this year.

[suitanim]

But, in the end...Joe Montana and Terry B have 4 Rings...that's it.

That is the most important stat of all stats. They both are Legends for all time. You can have all the passing stats you want...Marino or be loved by a town for decades and get one ring Favre...but in the end, 4 Rings trumps all others stats and debates. It really does. (Sure Terry haters will say it was because he had 8 fellow HOF players on his team but I suggest, if QB is the most important position on the other 31 teams in the league, then it is also for the 4 time Champions 1970s Steelers)

Rings...it is all about Rings. Ben needs to remember that, instead of worrying about trying to be MVP or make highlights, just play to win Rings and he'll do so much better. Eli is playing for a Ring this year.

Wait. Now you're suggesting that Ben plays only for individual accolades and stats? And not to win rings?

Have you lost your mind?

[Dino 6 Rings]

Wait. Now you're suggesting that Ben plays only for individual accolades and stats? And not to win rings?

Have you lost your mind?

I am suggesting exactly that...that he has changed his game to be more about his stats and individual accolades and not to win games for the sake of winning games. Ever since the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, its been about getting the MVP for Ben, not gettnig Rings. Yes...I suggest that

[GBMelBlount]

Cool.

Roethlisberger:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Roethlisberger.jpg

Manning:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Manning.jpg

Besides the obvious superiority in yards per attempt and completion percentage and QB rating, Ben also has a higher TD-per-attempt ratio (1:20.08 Attempts vs. 1:21.19 Attempts) and a lower INT-per-attempt ratio (1:33.13 Attempts vs. 1:30.39 Attempts) than Manning.

Advantage: Roethlisberger. Clearly.

ABSOLUTELY.

In fact Roethlisberger is near the top (ALL TIME) in several categories.

[tube517]

Sorry, but there is no way in hell Eli is a better QB than Peyton, and he'd tell you that himself. When he comes close to Peyton's records, then maybe he'll be in the conversation, but right now...please. Mike and Mike are just like all the other talking heads looking for something to talk about and stir the pot for ratings. They both should know better than that.

God, this Eli love is already getting ridiculous...and I like the guy. I hope they don't turn him into the next Marsha or Little Timmy Tebow.

You know the NFLN and BSPN will heap all praise on the one who defeated the "mighty" Aaron Rodgers.

[fansince'76]

You know the NFLN and BSPN will heap all praise on the one who defeated the "mighty" Aaron Rodgers.

Bingo. Flavor of the week. Eli slew the mighty Goliath that is Aaron Rodgers and the Packers, and Ben didn't, ergo, Eli's better. It's also stupid and shortsighted, and both those network specialize in stupidity and shortsightedness.

[tube517]

Let's revisit this discussion at the end of their careers. I'll still take Ben, though. I'd like to see Eli have more rings than his brother. That would make Archie poop in his depends.

[fansince'76]

Sorry, but there is no way in hell Eli is a better QB than Peyton, and he'd tell you that himself. When he comes close to Peyton's records, then maybe he'll be in the conversation, but right now...please. Mike and Mike are just like all the other talking heads looking for something to talk about and stir the pot for ratings. They both should know better than that.

God, this Eli love is already getting ridiculous...and I like the guy. I hope they don't turn him into the next Marsha or Little Timmy Tebow.

Exactly. P. Manning is easily a top-5 QB of all time, and arguably top-3. He truly is right up there with Unitas and Montana. His little bro isn't even close, nor is Ben, for that matter.

[zulater]

Cool.

Roethlisberger:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Roethlisberger.jpg

Manning:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Manning.jpg

Besides the obvious superiority in yards per attempt and completion percentage and QB rating, Ben also has a higher TD-per-attempt ratio (1:20.08 Attempts vs. 1:21.19 Attempts) and a lower INT-per-attempt ratio (1:33.13 Attempts vs. 1:30.39 Attempts) than Manning.

Advantage: Roethlisberger. Clearly.

Good post. You're right, career wise Ben is certainly ahead of Eli to this point.

But tell me this, put your black and gold glasses aside. If you asked the 32 head coaches and 32 GM's in the league 2 months from now in an anonymous survey, all things being equal, who would you rather have quarterback your team in 2012, Eli or Ben? Do you think there would be a clear consensus in favor of Ben? I don't.
I'd bet the result would be closer than Flacco's eyebrows. :p

[fansince'76]

Good post. You're right, career wise Ben is certainly ahead of Eli to this point.

But tell me this, put your black and gold glasses aside. If you asked the 32 head coaches and 32 GM's in the league 2 months from now in an anonymous survey, all things being equal, who would you rather have quarterback your team in 2012, Eli or Ben? Do you think there would be a clear consensus in favor of Ben? I don't.
I'd bet the result would be closer than Flacco's eyebrows. :p

Good point. It's a fluid thing and taking recent events into account, Eli would probably get the nod. I also remember after the Giants won SB XLII the same discussion being brought up, and Eli was an overwhelming favorite at that time. Fast forward a year later to Ben's dramatic game-winning drive in SB XLIII, and the pendulum swung back Ben's way. Hopefully, Ben can once again swing sentiment back into his corner next year.

[zulater]

Good point. It's a fluid thing and taking recent events into account, Eli would probably get the nod. I also remember after the Giants won SB XLII the same discussion being brought up, and Eli was an overwhelming favorite at that time. Fast forward a year later to Ben's dramatic game-winning drive in SB XLIII, and the pendulum swung back Ben's way. Hopefully, Ben can once again swing sentiment back into his corner next year.

I knew some engaged in that debate, but I wasn't one of them. To that point Eli was a qb caught up in the moment. He did some nice things that postseason, but to me he wasn't much more than a current day Jeff Hosteler.

But that's changed this time. His game has improved considerably. At times he carried that Giant team this season. He wasn't capable of that in 2007.

But again all that said I'm still going with Ben. I'm really hoping that thoughts such as these permeate Ben's mind, and it inspires him to work all that much harder in the offseason to bring our offense to the level it needs to be to win another Super bowl.

[Dodt]

if he gets that second ring it will just confirm he is better than rivers and a little better than his older brother.if eli goes undefeated in his career when appearing in the superbowl and his stats improve over the remainder of his career, then i will say he is better then ben.

[suitanim]

I am suggesting exactly that...that he has changed his game to be more about his stats and individual accolades and not to win games for the sake of winning games. Ever since the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, its been about getting the MVP for Ben, not gettnig Rings. Yes...I suggest that

Wrong. Sorry, you're just....wrong.

I've watched him play since his days at Miami. He plays exactly the same way he did back then. In fact, the Iowa game was the template. He sacrificed his stats to try and win the game. For Ben, it's all about winning. If he wanted stats he would have shipped out to a 100% pass oriented team and took a flier on re-upping with the Steelers.

Really, this is just getting silly now. People are literally losing their heads over this issue.

[GodfatherofSoul]

Also, keep in mind that Eli is in the NY media market. Lots of lazy sports journalists don't bother looking further than their own fence for stories. That's why the megalopolis teams garner so much attention; usually unwarranted like the Jets.

[zulater]

Speaking as a little sister, I've been wondering about that too. This is the first time Eli hasn't played under his brother's shadow and he's really blossomed.

I'd quote and agree with all of zulater's posts but that would double the size of the thread. I was thinking that Eli had pulled himself up next to Ben in the eyes of the sports world even before seeing zu's thoughts. Look, neither of us would trade Ben for Eli - and understand, I love Ben - but even as we speak, Mike & Mike are debating whether Eli is on a par with his brother and if he will eclipse him with another SB win, and the general concensus is "yes". I realize all the talk and praise is largely because this has just happened and is fresh in everyone's memory but there is no doubt Eli is playing lights out right now.

I hope it does put a chip on Ben's shoulder - I think he could use one. None of us here would trade Ben for anybody - and Ben never got the respect he deserves - but in the sports media, they are all about Eli. Ben, Eli and Rivers are forever linked in their eyes and I think today Eli is on top except for the Steeler fans.


Well stated! :applaudit:

[oneforthetoe]

Eli Not greater than Ben.

Of course, Favre greater than Eli, Ben ...... God, Allah and Buddha combined.

[NCSteeler]

Just curious, what was Ben's QB Rating in the playoff games up to Beating Seattle?

let me know when Eli has 2 rings (which I am rooting for cause I like Eli and prefer the Giants to win) and has been to 3 SBs before we call him "better" than Ben. He also has the benefit of playing on a pretty good team with a Good Oline and Great Defense and great running game.

That is exactly what all the talking heads said about Ben his first 3 years.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That is exactly what all the talking heads said about Ben his first 3 years.

They were pretty much right too. Only thing is that the Giants have had a solid run game for the past several seasons and the Steelers have not. The Steelers have probably had the more dominating defense that could bail out a struggling offense and the Giants have not.

I think Eli is a better traditional QB in terms of reading coverages, going thru progressions, being able to make all the throws and throw away balls when its the right thing to do. Ben is more of an athlete with a big arm that has shrugged off all the film study and going thru his reads, instead to get outside the pocket to buy time.

Frightening thing is how good Ben could be if he did devote more focus to the finer things like film, footwork and reading defenses.

[X-Terminator]

They were pretty much right too. Only thing is that the Giants have had a solid run game for the past several seasons and the Steelers have not. The Steelers have probably had the more dominating defense that could bail out a struggling offense and the Giants have not.

I think Eli is a better traditional QB in terms of reading coverages, going thru progressions, being able to make all the throws and throw away balls when its the right thing to do. Ben is more of an athlete with a big arm that has shrugged off all the film study and going thru his reads, instead to get outside the pocket to buy time.

Frightening thing is how good Ben could be if he did devote more focus to the finer things like film, footwork and reading defenses.

I'd like to see if he does more film study this off-season, since I'm sure the players didn't have access to game film during the lockout. At his age, he needs to be more cerebral if he still wants to be among the best, because the physical gifts are going to break down, probably faster than normal because of all of the hits and injuries he's suffered through.

[86WARD]

If Eli wins another Super Bowl, maybe.

[slippy]

living in NYC i see most giants games (but not many jets games for some reason ... hmmm) eli is an excellent super bowl winning qb, but not better than ben. he's not as entertaining either! eli also throws as many, if not more, head scratching picks as ben. BTW giants are 27th in rushing O this year.

eli had a great 2007 and a great 2011. his other years were here and there.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Seriously...sometimes people ask questions just to be controversial...

Eli = 1 Super Bowl Appearance, 1 Win
Ben = 3 Super Bowl Apperances, 2 Wins

whats the fcking debate?

as a steelers fan...even I think this whole superbowl arguement gets really really old. Good grief.

[ShutDown24]

I think Ben is the better Quarterback, but Eli is good. And this isn't some ground breaking development. Eli has been a very good Quarterback for some time now. He has definitely stepped his game up this year, but I don't understand this sudden love affair everyone seems to be having with him. I would put him a rung below Ben on the Quarterback ladder, but when all is said and done who cares. They are both great Quarterbacks for their teams.

[NCSteeler]

I'd like to see if he does more film study this off-season, since I'm sure the players didn't have access to game film during the lockout. At his age, he needs to be more cerebral if he still wants to be among the best, because the physical gifts are going to break down, probably faster than normal because of all of the hits and injuries he's suffered through.

I really thought he looked his sharpest was after his suspension. Hopefully he will re dedicate himself to his craft this offseason

[Bluecoat96]

I really thought he looked his sharpest was after his suspension. Hopefully he will re dedicate himself to his craft this offseason

Maybe his wife, who is also a big Steelers fan, will get on his case to study more! lol

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I'd like to see if he does more film study this off-season, since I'm sure the players didn't have access to game film during the lockout. At his age, he needs to be more cerebral if he still wants to be among the best, because the physical gifts are going to break down, probably faster than normal because of all of the hits and injuries he's suffered through.

I saw an NFL network piece where every weeks game is broken down digitally and given to players so they can watch film on computer.

-Ray Lewis has a dedicated room in his home for game film study.
-Drew Brees arranged for the team to do film study during the lockout. "Brees has also arranged for players to take part in studying game films of the teams that they will face in 2011."
http://www.saintsscoop.com/


If anybody didnt have access to game video during the lockout its either because they didnt need to have it or didnt care to have it.

[suitanim]

If we are going to start saying that the only important standard of greatness is super bowl rings, we need to be careful, because that leads to statements like:

Doug Williams is a better QB than Dan Marino
Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Steve McNair
Brad Johnson is a better QB than Jim Kelly

Sorry, can't go there...

[BlastFurnace]

Can't we just agree that they are both great QB's

[tube517]

I really thought he looked his sharpest was after his suspension. Hopefully he will re dedicate himself to his craft this offseason

He worked out with George Whitfield during the suspension. Wouldn't hurt to work out w/him again??

[zulater]

If we are going to start saying that the only important standard of greatness is super bowl rings, we need to be careful, because that leads to statements like:

Doug Williams is a better QB than Dan Marino
Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Steve McNair
Brad Johnson is a better QB than Jim Kelly

Sorry, can't go there...

I'd even say Terry Bradshaw was as good or better from 80-82 than he was in his Super Bowl winning years.

[suitanim]

I'd even say Terry Bradshaw was as good or better from 80-82 than he was in his Super Bowl winning years.

This isn't tennis, or even basketball. Obviously my argument fades a bit in lieu of the situation in Indy, but this is still the team sport with the most participants of all. The QB is important, but if a QB doesn't win a championship, it doesn't necessarily reflect his relative greatness, and, conversely, if a mediocre QB is carried by his team (ala Trent Dilfer) you can't really elevate him much above his relative mediocre status simply because of good fortune (and good supporting cast and great defense).

[zulater]

Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger: Who Is the Best QB from the 2004 NFL Draft? (bleacherreport.com/articles/1043149-eli-manning-or-ben-roethlisberger-who-is-the-best-qb-from-the-2004-nfl-draft)

Regular Season Stats

The statistics are pretty close. Roethlisberger leads Manning in completion percentage (63.1 to 58.4), average yards per attempt (8.02 to 7.03), interceptions (100 to 129), fumbles (38 to 50) and quarterback rating (92.1 to 82.1).

Manning has more completions (2,291 to 2,090), attempts (3,921 to 3,313), yards (27,579 to 26,579), touchdowns (185 to 175) and long completion (99 to 95).

Roethlisberger has an edge on touchdown percentage (5.0 to 4.3) and interception percentage (3.0 to 3.3), but has been sacked an incredible 314 times to only 194 for Manning. Despite being sacked more, Roethlisberger is the more successful runner with 944 yards on 293 carries and 14 touchdowns to Manning's 365 yards on 193 carries and four touchdowns.

Roethlisberger has 20 fourth-quarter comebacks and 26 game-winning drives compared to 19 and 23 for Manning, respectively.