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zulater
01-11-2012, 05:42 AM
The Steelers could experience significant roster turnover this offseason.

There will be very little, if any, when it comes to Mike Tomlin's coaching staff.

Both offensive coordinator Bruce Arians and defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau will return in 2012.

The two were at Steelers' headquarters yesterday as various players went through exit meetings and interviews with their position coach, as well as Tomlin.

Cornerback Keenan Lewis said LeBeau had a simple message to the players that will take time off before returning to Pittsburgh to start training for the 2012 season.

"He just told us to come back ready to win a Super Bowl," Lewis said.

The Steelers finished first in the NFL this season in scoring defense (14.2 points allowed per game) and total defense (271.8 yards ppg). They were 12th in total offense (372.3 yards per game) and tied for 21st in scoring (20.3 yards per game).



Read more: Assistants Arians, LeBeau will return next season for Steelers - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_776008.html#ixzz1j9J7sbVG

HometownGal
01-11-2012, 05:52 AM
:applaudit: :thumbsup: :tt02:

That is all!

fansince'76
01-11-2012, 05:58 AM
Let the gnashing of teeth begin anew...

Chidi29
01-11-2012, 06:03 AM
Glad to hear it!

zulater
01-11-2012, 06:05 AM
With a full offseason of OTA's I sure hope they address the pathetic time wasting two minute offense that's been on display for the past couple seasons.

They should force Ben and Arains to watch Rodgers move the Packers seemlessly down the field in about 25 seconds in the Meadowlands over and over again, or at least until they see that it's possible to go less than 25 seconds between snaps running your no huddle offense.

Hell we look disjointed running our two minute offense at home. This along with our poor red zone performance is what's holding us back from being elite on that side of the ball.

NCSteeler
01-11-2012, 06:23 AM
I'm not gonna bash but I will say I am tired of our offense. Hopefully somethings will change but that was the promise last offseason, so maybe with a full offseason to work instead of lockout we'll see some improvement

Steeldude
01-11-2012, 06:26 AM
unless arians is offered a HC job, but i doubt that happens.

GBMelBlount
01-11-2012, 06:40 AM
unless arians is offered a HC job, but i doubt that happens.

I would love to see BA get a HC job somewhere as well but at 20.3 ppg (especially with all of our weapons) I would have to agree.

Edman
01-11-2012, 06:58 AM
Good. More of the same next season.

SCSTILLER
01-11-2012, 07:30 AM
Well, I guess I need to start growing out my fingernails now for next season because our offense seemed to have me gnawing on them all this season.

X-Terminator
01-11-2012, 07:50 AM
Scanner-type head explosions in 3...2...1...

Devilsdancefloor
01-11-2012, 08:22 AM
Scanner-type head explosions in 3...2...1...

i LOL'd so loud i got the attention of the office :P

Dino 6 Rings
01-11-2012, 08:47 AM
Let the gnashing of teeth begin anew...

Gnash Gnash Arians NBBFer Gnash Gnash Full Back Gnash Gnash Quicker Passes and Shorter Routes Gnash Gnash Gnash Stupid Bubble Screen Gnash Gnash Gnash Gnash.

fansince'76
01-11-2012, 09:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj3DBcpfMNQ

:chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-11-2012, 09:42 AM
unless arians is offered a HC job, but i doubt that happens.

I'm still saying the Raiders have a shot. With Carson Palmer and weapons like McFadden, Michael Bush, Heyward-Bey, Jacoby Ford, etc. I am sure he can field an explosive offense like he did in Pittsburgh.

Oh.....the Raiders actually ranked higher than the Steelers in Total Yardage, Points, TD's. My bad.

salamander
01-11-2012, 09:44 AM
We're doomed... :chuckle:

tube517
01-11-2012, 09:48 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/424857/BubbleScreen.png

:chuckle:

suitanim
01-11-2012, 10:31 AM
Mike Mularkey was hired as Tampa's HC, and his offensive stats were all worse than ours. I LOL'd when I saw that...

tube517
01-11-2012, 10:32 AM
Mike Mularkey was hired as Tampa's HC, and his offensive stats were all worse than ours. I LOL'd when I saw that...

Jacksonville hired Mularkey. Even worse.

Michael
01-11-2012, 11:03 AM
I read the forum thread the entire season and never posted one time because I did not and still do not want to get into a discusssion about Bruce Arians 20.3 ppg ---, absolutely pitiful , Please do not tell me that The Steeler's F O and Tomlin are searching for excellence. Careers and talent being wasted by this thick skulled idiot. In over 55 years of watching Steeler football I have never seen such tolerance , at best, political stupdity at worse.

I love Ben as a tremdendous athletic Q B but I think he likes it his way and Arians is his boy. Bruce Arians is my personal Steeler nightmare and I believe the most disliked Steeler coach ever simply because he remains on staff forever. I am not giving any specfics as to why I don"t approve of this idiot . If you don"t know why you will never will. Steeler fan forever .

GodfatherofSoul
01-11-2012, 11:07 AM
No big problems with Arians, but I'd like to see him clamping down on Ben's "John Wayne shit" and committing to the running game. When you've got a guy running for 7+ a pop and he doesn't get more than 20 carries something is wrong.

suitanim
01-11-2012, 11:08 AM
Jacksonville hired Mularkey. Even worse.

Did I say Tampa? Got my Florida teams mixed up...

Anyway, their stats weren't all that much better than ours, and their record was worse, and he has already failed as a HC once, but they couldn't wait to snatch him up...

st33lersguy
01-11-2012, 11:13 AM
How much longer do Steeler fans have to put up with incompetent play calling and the lack of a semi-coherent gameplan

suitanim
01-11-2012, 11:31 AM
How much longer do Steeler fans have to put up with incompetent play calling and the lack of a semi-coherent gameplan

Yo should all start a petition and send it to "The Cheap Rooney's". I'm sure that will get their attention and show them the error of their 6-time-Super-Bowl winning ways.

Dino 6 Rings
01-11-2012, 11:36 AM
Rabble Rabble Rabble Gnash Gnash Gnash Redzone Ineptness Rabble Rabble Gnash Gnash 3rd and Short Shotgun formation Gnash Gnash Gnash 44 passes with a guimpy QB Gnash Rabble Rablle Rablle Bubble Bubble Screen Backwards Pass Gnash Gnash Rabble Rabble

X-Terminator
01-11-2012, 11:42 AM
Listen, I'm not Arians' biggest fan, I just don't have stone-cold, blind, frothing-at-the-mouth hatred for the man like most Steelers fans do. But the bottom line is 20.3 PPG from an offense with that much talent is unacceptable. I'm not asking for the Saints or Packers offense, but there is no reason why this team can't average an extra TD per game. 27 PPG would have put them in the top 10. That's good enough for me. And for that to happen, the red zone offense MUST improve, period.

suitanim
01-11-2012, 11:56 AM
And that can happen.

FA OLineman.

Olineman in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

Olineman in the morning, noon and night. Olineman with ham, olineman with spam, olineman, sam-I-am. OL OL OL!!!!

Godfather
01-11-2012, 12:03 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! They should both be fired, along with Tomlin!! We should demand the Rooneys sell the team to someone who knows how to run a winning franchise! We suck!

BigNastyDefense
01-11-2012, 12:28 PM
I am glad LeBeau is staying.....while I am not an Arians hater, I was kind of hoping he would retire.

I think part of the reason Ben lobbies for Arians to stay so much every offseason, and the reason Ben likes him so much, is because Arians actually wants Ben's input. The offseason in which Arians took over, him and Ben sat down and went through the Steelers playbook and got rid of plays that Ben didn't like and/or didn't work (I think they need to do that again).

You guys have to remember, Ben has only had two offensive coordinators in his career.

Whiz never wanted Ben's input or even cared. Ben had maybe two play calls, the original call and then an audible to a run or pass depending on what the defense shows. He didn't have freedom in Whiz's offense, and I don't remember seeing a no huddle (though I could be wrong).

The WH
01-11-2012, 12:58 PM
This season's problems stemmed more from personnel than coordinators. To fully deny that would be stupid.

zulater
01-11-2012, 01:29 PM
Here's the sort of thing that bothers me about this offense. Going back to SB XLV. Steelers get the ball 2.07, on the clock, 2 minute warning in our pocket, down 6,chance to win the game. In 5 plays we travel 20 whole yard, using up a full 1.18 of clock in doing so. Even if we had converted our last 4th down effort, we had little chance of getting the ball near the end zone with anything left on the clock!

Now compare this to Green Bay against the Giants, in the Meadowlands this season. From their own 20 they took possession of the ball with 58 seconds on the clock one time out left. In 5 plays they move the ball all the way to the Giants 13 yard line, preserving their time out, which they ended up using on a first down play to kill the clock to make the field goal the last play of the game. In other words Rodgers was able to move his team 67 yards, using only 45 seconds of clock, on the road!

Anyway, how many times at the end of halves have we been in a position to do something with the ball, and just jam on the brakes one play after the next? We're getting to look like the Eagles the way we waste time when we have none.

The WH
01-11-2012, 01:32 PM
Are you sure about that timing Zu? I could swear they burnt up the 2 minute warning with the returner trying to do to much and got the ball back with 1:58

zulater
01-11-2012, 01:50 PM
Are you sure about that timing Zu? I could swear they burnt up the 2 minute warning with the returner trying to do to much and got the ball back with 1:58

You're right, we started the possesion at 1.59. sorry.

Still, that possession was going nowhere fast. As I've said before, we run a no huddle, but we don't have a hurry up offense to speak of.And just as it cost us in the Super bowl, it also cost us against the Broncos at the end of both halves.

And yes I know we didn't run out of clock in either half against the Broncos. But the discombobulated nature of our two minute offense put us in unmanagable positions time after time.

Steeldude
01-11-2012, 01:54 PM
You're right, we started the possesion at 1.59. sorry.

Still, that possession was going nowhere fast. As I've said before, we run a no huddle, but we don't have a hurry up offense to speak of.And just as it cost us in the Super bowl, it also cost us against the Broncos at the end of both halves.

And yes I know we didn't run out of clock in either half against the Broncos. But the discombobulated nature of our two minute offense put us in unmanagable positions time after time.

it's poor coaching. what else could it be?

XxKnightxX
01-11-2012, 01:55 PM
The Steelers could experience significant roster turnover this offseason.

There will be very little, if any, when it comes to Mike Tomlin's coaching staff.

Both offensive coordinator Bruce Arians and defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau will return in 2012.



The two were at Steelers' headquarters yesterday as various players went through exit meetings and interviews with their position coach, as well as Tomlin.

Cornerback Keenan Lewis said LeBeau had a simple message to the players that will take time off before returning to Pittsburgh to start training for the 2012 season.

"He just told us to come back ready to win a Super Bowl," Lewis said.

The Steelers finished first in the NFL this season in scoring defense (14.2 points allowed per game) and total defense (271.8 yards ppg). They were 12th in total offense (372.3 yards per game) and tied for 21st in scoring (20.3 yards per game).



Read more: Assistants Arians, LeBeau will return next season for Steelers - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_776008.html#ixzz1j9J7sbVG

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/482/template.jpg

I just woke up and this was my reaction. Im sorry, I've never been an Arians basher, but I think he needs to be gone, I think this offense is almost like the Colts, we rely on Ben way too much, and one mistake from him and were fucked. We need more balance. Hopefully that can happen with acquiring some damn offensive linemen. Get a line and show me what the Arians offense is about, and if they dont address getting O linemen, or if the offense keeps this mediocre performance next season with OL signings, then we have a real problem.

zulater
01-11-2012, 01:59 PM
it's poor coaching. what else could it be?

It could be a lot of things. All I know is it needs to be addressed this offseason. We have to get more efficient with our two minute offense next season, I don't care who the coaches are.

suitanim
01-11-2012, 02:00 PM
(sigh)

We've been over this ad nauseum. It was lack of turnovers. It was horrible field position (which is one of the most telling stats for scoring and winning in football). It was poor blocking by the OL. It was lack of execution in the form of missed assignments, dropped balls, missed blocks, errant passes, and yes, occasionally odd playcalling. Heaping all this onto the plate of Arians is just as intellectually lazy and dishonest now as it has been at any point prior. It's scapegoating and taking the easy way out and, most importantly, it's meaningless because the Steelers know this even if YOU don't.

Pristas
01-11-2012, 02:01 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/424857/BubbleScreen.png

:chuckle:

Seriously, I don't find this amusing. I'm over the Arians Ben relationship. A new OC might actually bring some life into an otherwise walking dead offense. We look so complacent out there. No fire. Ben may have enjoyed his last superbowl if this continues. Brown and Redman are the only sparks heading into the off season. And on D, maybe Gay. The rest of this team needs to look in the mirror and see what they want.

XxKnightxX
01-11-2012, 02:20 PM
(sigh)

We've been over this ad nauseum. It was lack of turnovers. It was horrible field position (which is one of the most telling stats for scoring and winning in football). It was poor blocking by the OL. It was lack of execution in the form of missed assignments, dropped balls, missed blocks, errant passes, and yes, occasionally odd playcalling. Heaping all this onto the plate of Arians is just as intellectually lazy and dishonest now as it has been at any point prior. It's scapegoating and taking the easy way out and, most importantly, it's meaningless because the Steelers know this even if YOU don't.

Its funny because all of those points show why the offense struggled so much, and it cant be one thing. Its a cycle one can relate to the other and vice versa. This team has to look at itself in the mirror and realize that they have to be better. This defense isnt getting any younger and nothing is a guarantee that we will be a top defense next year. WE HAVE TO SCORE , Period. 7s over 3s, and get a damn kicker that well be confident that can kick 3s.

BlastFurnace
01-11-2012, 03:00 PM
It could be a lot of things. All I know is it needs to be addressed this offseason. We have to get more efficient with our two minute offense next season, I don't care who the coaches are.

You're right in that you indicate that it is a lot of things. Field Goal Bruce is part of the problem, but so is Ben. Problem is, it seems this combination of these two doesn't seem to be the optimal solution to resolving this problem.

Ben must learn to take what the defense gives to him. Until he does this, the offense will continue to put up tons of yardage and very little points.

Also, the team needs to utilize all of it's options on offense. Mendenhall and Miller have been underutilized this past season in the passing game. There is no way that Mendenhall, with his speed and ability in the open field, cannot beat nearly any LB'er put on him on a passing play. Do we ever throw screens to him...hardly ever.

Taking the clock down to 1 second on each play needs to end too.

The problem with this offense is not the talent. The problem is that this team does not utilize the talent to the best of it's abilities.

People say that Brady would get destroyed behind the Steelers o'line. Perhaps he would....but I bet the gameplan his OC would put together with Brady would put up more than 27 points in two games against Cleveland with the weapons the Steelers have on offense.

zulater
01-11-2012, 03:07 PM
Taking the clock down to 1 second on each play needs to end too.



How sweet it must be to be an edge rusher against the Steelers when you know when the ball will be snapped on nearly every significant play?

oneforthetoe
01-11-2012, 03:48 PM
You're right, we started the possesion at 1.59. sorry.

Still, that possession was going nowhere fast. As I've said before, we run a no huddle, but we don't have a hurry up offense to speak of.And just as it cost us in the Super bowl, it also cost us against the Broncos at the end of both halves.

And yes I know we didn't run out of clock in either half against the Broncos. But the discombobulated nature of our two minute offense put us in unmanagable positions time after time.


Part of it is play calling. Part of it is Ben's unwillingness at times to take the easy play. And part of it is personnel - specifically the o'line. It's hard to run an effective hurry up when you have the likes of Kemo in your o'line. I mean how fast can the guy count, left (foot), right, left, right, right .... oops I mean left.

oneforthetoe
01-11-2012, 04:00 PM
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/482/template.jpg

I just woke up and this was my reaction. Im sorry, I've never been an Arians basher, but I think he needs to be gone, I think this offense is almost like the Colts, we rely on Ben way too much, and one mistake from him and were fucked. We need more balance. Hopefully that can happen with acquiring some damn offensive linemen. Get a line and show me what the Arians offense is about, and if they dont address getting O linemen, or if the offense keeps this mediocre performance next season with OL signings, then we have a real problem.

In retrospect, I kind of wish the Steelers would have gotten another o' coordinator a few years back. That said, you can't teach an old Ben new tricks. If you bring in a staunch micro- manager to run the o Ben is not going to respond well to that. He is not going to flourish in a different system. So, I guess stick with Arians and hope a better o'line will make a difference.

Craic
01-11-2012, 04:15 PM
With a full offseason of OTA's I sure hope they address the pathetic time wasting two minute offense that's been on display for the past couple seasons.

They should force Ben and Arains to watch Rodgers move the Packers seemlessly down the field in about 25 seconds in the Meadowlands over and over again, or at least until they see that it's possible to go less than 25 seconds between snaps running your no huddle offense.

Hell we look disjointed running our two minute offense at home. This along with our poor red zone performance is what's holding us back from being elite on that side of the ball.

Thank you for keeping perspective here, and I agree. Those are our two weakpoints. In the middle of the year I wasn't so worried about it, because we were average in the redzone, and with our ability to score from longer distances and our defense, average was good enough to win games. BUt that average fell to below average later on, and that became a problem. I feel like there are one or two major issues with this offense, be it scheming or execution (Prob. 50/50) that need to be addressed. I would love for Arians and Tomlin to bring in a retired OC and have them do an assessment, pointing out strengths and weaknesses.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-11-2012, 05:39 PM
. I would love for Arians and Tomlin to bring in a retired OC and have them do an assessment, pointing out strengths and weaknesses.

Interesting idea, but might depend if you bring in Tom Moore or Jim Tressell as a consultant. Different philosophies.

tube517
01-11-2012, 05:42 PM
You're right in that you indicate that it is a lot of things. Field Goal Bruce is part of the problem, but so is Ben. Problem is, it seems this combination of these two doesn't seem to be the optimal solution to resolving this problem.

Ben must learn to take what the defense gives to him. Until he does this, the offense will continue to put up tons of yardage and very little points.

Also, the team needs to utilize all of it's options on offense. Mendenhall and Miller have been underutilized this past season in the passing game. There is no way that Mendenhall, with his speed and ability in the open field, cannot beat nearly any LB'er put on him on a passing play. Do we ever throw screens to him...hardly ever.

Taking the clock down to 1 second on each play needs to end too.

The problem with this offense is not the talent. The problem is that this team does not utilize the talent to the best of it's abilities.

People say that Brady would get destroyed behind the Steelers o'line. Perhaps he would....but I bet the gameplan his OC would put together with Brady would put up more than 27 points in two games against Cleveland with the weapons the Steelers have on offense.

I agree with every point here. You saved me from typing any of it

SteelerFanInStl
01-11-2012, 06:11 PM
Listen, I'm not Arians' biggest fan, I just don't have stone-cold, blind, frothing-at-the-mouth hatred for the man like most Steelers fans do. But the bottom line is 20.3 PPG from an offense with that much talent is unacceptable. I'm not asking for the Saints or Packers offense, but there is no reason why this team can't average an extra TD per game. 27 PPG would have put them in the top 10. That's good enough for me. And for that to happen, the red zone offense MUST improve, period.

I feel the same way. I'm not an Arians hater but I can't help but feel that we're not getting the most out of all that talent we have on offense. We're left scratching our heads far too often on drives into the red zone.

I'm not giving LeBeau a pass either. The defense didn't create turnovers this year or get sacks like they should. Yep, a lot of that was because of injuries but I felt all year that the defense just wasn't playing as aggressively as a Steeler defense normally does. They also weren't able to stop teams when they needed to.

Things have to change for next year or else we will be left behind as other teams adapt to the 'new' NFL.

GBMelBlount
01-11-2012, 06:12 PM
And that can happen.

FA OLineman.

Olineman in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

Olineman in the morning, noon and night. Olineman with ham, olineman with spam, olineman, sam-I-am. OL OL OL!!!!

OK, I am actually laughing right now but I do agree with this in general.

Butch
01-11-2012, 06:27 PM
Who is our Strength and conditioning coach??? The reason I ask is because it seems we have had way to many injuries the past 2 seasons at the end of the year.

Moose
01-11-2012, 06:45 PM
Right now my main thought is getting everyone healthy for next year !! I think if we didn't have the injuries we wouldn't be talking about this right now, we'd be preparing for another play-off game. We need the players to get the operations they need so their nagging injuries quit reoccuring, and the players that have nagging injuries ( sprained ankles, hamstrings, groins, etc.) stay OFF of their feet and get healthy again.

We need the players that are out of shape to get into shape, and the players that need to start buffing up--do so for next year.

LeBeau is great, although he did piss me off quite a few games with the defensive plays ( at times seemed out dated), and Arians, well I'm not a big fan of him either, but with everyone healthy and the young kids executing might make things interesting.

GBMelBlount
01-11-2012, 08:36 PM
Who is our Strength and conditioning coach??? The reason I ask is because it seems we have had way to many injuries the past 2 seasons at the end of the year.

Seriously. W.T.F. Butch.

I was actually going to start a thread discussing the strength and conditioning.

Where is Steelerstrength when you need him?

SteelGhost
01-11-2012, 08:49 PM
The problem with this offense is not the talent. The problem is that this team does not utilize the talent to the best of it's abilities.



This sums it up well, exept for the OL talent or lack there of IMHO. I know hindsight is 20/20 but many fans have been asking to improve it for years, there are a couple of nice players (Pouncey and Gilbert) but we need more depth. Some consistency would help Brucey and Ben a lot.

On the defensive side, the DL must be reloaded too, Aaron, Ham and Hoke can be gone, and who knows how Kiesel will be. McClendon and Heyward are too young yet.The FO and CS have to take care of this if they want to improve the pass rush and the turnover ratio.

zulater
01-11-2012, 09:05 PM
It's not that we hate Arians. It's that we realize that the Ben/Arians marriage must end because Arians doesn't reel Ben in and hold him accountable for making stupid decisions.

Does any coach on this team stand up to Ben...or did that end when Cowher and Whiz left?

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2012/01/post-denver-thoughts.html

This was in the comments from a good column by Dale Lolley. This fits my own thinking pretty much too.

pepsyman1
01-11-2012, 10:02 PM
I am glad LeBeau is staying.....while I am not an Arians hater, I was kind of hoping he would retire.

I think part of the reason Ben lobbies for Arians to stay so much every offseason, and the reason Ben likes him so much, is because Arians actually wants Ben's input. The offseason in which Arians took over, him and Ben sat down and went through the Steelers playbook and got rid of plays that Ben didn't like and/or didn't work (I think they need to do that again).

You guys have to remember, Ben has only had two offensive coordinators in his career.

Whiz never wanted Ben's input or even cared. Ben had maybe two play calls, the original call and then an audible to a run or pass depending on what the defense shows. He didn't have freedom in Whiz's offense, and I don't remember seeing a no huddle (though I could be wrong).


When Ben had Whiz here, he was a first and 2nd year QB. Most OCs wouldnt have wanted his input yet. I think Ben needs a stronger voice that corrects some of his decision making and makes Ben better. Arians unfortunately, won't.

NCSteeler
01-12-2012, 12:05 AM
And that can happen.

FA OLineman.

Olineman in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

Olineman in the morning, noon and night. Olineman with ham, olineman with spam, olineman, sam-I-am. OL OL OL!!!!

O line man is not going to fix terrible play calling. The announcers and Denver's defense knew every time Wallace motioned across the formation it was gonna be a screen to him, DUH why not motion him and F'ing do something else. That's the Arians way just keep doing it the same no matter if the last time the D was all over it or this time they seem to see it coming, I'm sure next time you run it they will be surprised. THIS is my biggest problem with him.

And for everyone that say it's "execution" what exactly are coaches supposed to do? Get player ready to play, make lesser player better, I don't see any of that from Arians. Our Offense time and again seem under prepared for situation and execution is poor because of it. I hate Belicheater but his teams were always prepared(even if it involved video tape)

pepsyman1
01-12-2012, 01:56 AM
Has anyone noticed that all year there were teams with mediocre QBs that came in with decent game plans that were built around getting the ball out fast so that our pass rush wouldnt have time to get to the QB. Hell, we made some lousy QBs look good at moments this season. With Ben hardly able to move, why didnt Arians do the same thing???? Early in the year we saw Ben utilizing a three step drop on many plays and we used the underneath passing game very effectively against the Patriots....and that was the last we saw of it all year....Friggin WHY???? Ben showed that he was more than capable of using some of the same plays that have caused our defense some fits and then we scrapped it right when Ben could have made best use of it. Arians is an idiot.

XxKnightxX
01-12-2012, 04:18 AM
Has anyone noticed that all year there were teams with mediocre QBs that came in with decent game plans that were built around getting the ball out fast so that our pass rush wouldnt have time to get to the QB. Hell, we made some lousy QBs look good at moments this season. With Ben hardly able to move, why didnt Arians do the same thing???? Early in the year we saw Ben utilizing a three step drop on many plays and we used the underneath passing game very effectively against the Patriots....and that was the last we saw of it all year....Friggin WHY???? Ben showed that he was more than capable of using some of the same plays that have caused our defense some fits and then we scrapped it right when Ben could have made best use of it. Arians is an idiot.

Cmon did you really expect that perfect of a gameplan to be implemented any more during the season? I sure as hell didnt.

Count Steeler
01-12-2012, 05:17 AM
Must say, I am a little disappointed. Would have liked to see some fresh eyes and different methods come in and shake up the complacency that has seemed to set in on both sides of the ball.

Since we are staying with Lebeau and Arians, the lines better be addressed, because our QB can't be playing at 50% all the time.

zulater
01-12-2012, 05:46 AM
The case against Arians-Bob Smizik (http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31506-the-case-against-arians)


This is about Bruce Arians and why he should not be the offensive coordinator of the Steelers. It’s not about what an unimaginative and predictable play-caller he is. It’s not about what a dreary offense he runs. I don’t believe either to be the case.

My belief that Arians should step aside -- as gently as possibly because he deserves that -- is based on what many people believe to be his strength: His relationship with quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. The two men are close. It has been described as a friendship; as a father-son relationship; as an uncle-nephew relationship. Whatever, this type of a relationship is viewed as a positive.

I view it as a negative. Roethlisberger doesn’t need a friend, a father or an uncle as his offensive coordinator. He needs a boss. Not a tyrant, but someone to lead him to a better place. Arians is not capable, because of the long-standing close relationship, of altering Roethlisberger’s style.

I’m not sure Roethlisberger has a boss with the Steelers. And that’s not a knock on him. By most accounts, he’s been a team guy, not a prima-donna in his latest reincarnation.

But he is the organization’s $100 million man and, as such, gets special treatment. Nothing wrong with that either -- to an extent. But the Steelers have allowed Roethlisberger to become too undisciplined in his approach to the job. He needs someone to make him more adhere to a specific offense.

read more....http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31506-the-case-against-arians

Texasteel
01-12-2012, 06:44 AM
You're right in that you indicate that it is a lot of things. Field Goal Bruce is part of the problem, but so is Ben. Problem is, it seems this combination of these two doesn't seem to be the optimal solution to resolving this problem.

Ben must learn to take what the defense gives to him. Until he does this, the offense will continue to put up tons of yardage and very little points.

Also, the team needs to utilize all of it's options on offense. Mendenhall and Miller have been underutilized this past season in the passing game. There is no way that Mendenhall, with his speed and ability in the open field, cannot beat nearly any LB'er put on him on a passing play. Do we ever throw screens to him...hardly ever.

Taking the clock down to 1 second on each play needs to end too.

The problem with this offense is not the talent. The problem is that this team does not utilize the talent to the best of it's abilities.

People say that Brady would get destroyed behind the Steelers o'line. Perhaps he would....but I bet the gameplan his OC would put together with Brady would put up more than 27 points in two games against Cleveland with the weapons the Steelers have on offense.

Would that be the talented OL that looks, at times, like they couldn't make a block if they had their clone helping them, or the WRs that seem to be able to get open at will then just plain drop the ball, or the crippled QB that some times can't get the ball within 5 yards of the open WR or worse seems to forget which team he is playing for. BA deserve his share of the blame, but you can't point to him alone and say "There's the problem". I have seen good plays called ( in the red zone) only to have it screwed up by a player mistake. I love our QB, and our WRs, and our RBs, (not to crazy about most of the OL) but they are a large part of the problem. If getting rid of BA would fix the problem I would be all for it, but it seems that the people that make the call on this don't think so. I will live this their decision, what ever it is.

I know I am the head homer here, and to some this will make me a rah-rah fan unrealistic fan, but I do like BA, and though I think he can do a better job, think he has done a good one.

suitanim
01-12-2012, 08:42 AM
Props to Smizik for at least bothering to put a fresh new look on the old and tired act of scapegoating Arians for the myriad problems this team faces in all 3 facets of the game. Pardon me for asking, though, but what the Hell does Arians relationship with Ben have to do with poor starting field position? For a complete lack of TO's created by the defense? For shaky special teams play? For poor (at times) or mediocre (most of the rest) field goal kicking? For giving up a 92 yard game losing drive with just over a minute left against a very average Flacco in perhaps the most important game of the regular season (and at home to boot)? For making an H-back playing out of position look like the second coming of Joe Montana in a playoff game? For the multiple clock management and challenge flag mistakes that the team made?

Sorry, I'm going to defer to the front office.

tube517
01-12-2012, 10:13 AM
Did I say Tampa? Got my Florida teams mixed up...

Anyway, their stats weren't all that much better than ours, and their record was worse, and he has already failed as a HC once, but they couldn't wait to snatch him up...

Their owner looks like Tony Orlando with Rollie Fingers' moustache and Al Sharpton's hair.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201201/nfl-owner-claims-real-fans-are-season-ticket-holders

Chidi29
01-12-2012, 09:54 PM
The case against Arians-Bob Smizik (http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31506-the-case-against-arians)


This is about Bruce Arians and why he should not be the offensive coordinator of the Steelers. It’s not about what an unimaginative and predictable play-caller he is. It’s not about what a dreary offense he runs. I don’t believe either to be the case.

My belief that Arians should step aside -- as gently as possibly because he deserves that -- is based on what many people believe to be his strength: His relationship with quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. The two men are close. It has been described as a friendship; as a father-son relationship; as an uncle-nephew relationship. Whatever, this type of a relationship is viewed as a positive.

I view it as a negative. Roethlisberger doesn’t need a friend, a father or an uncle as his offensive coordinator. He needs a boss. Not a tyrant, but someone to lead him to a better place. Arians is not capable, because of the long-standing close relationship, of altering Roethlisberger’s style.

I’m not sure Roethlisberger has a boss with the Steelers. And that’s not a knock on him. By most accounts, he’s been a team guy, not a prima-donna in his latest reincarnation.

But he is the organization’s $100 million man and, as such, gets special treatment. Nothing wrong with that either -- to an extent. But the Steelers have allowed Roethlisberger to become too undisciplined in his approach to the job. He needs someone to make him more adhere to a specific offense.

read more....http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31506-the-case-against-arians

Oh Bob, how quickly we forget the articles we (meaning: you) write. A November article entitled, "In defense of Arians".

http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/30636-in-defense-of-arians

Granted, it has to deal with the team's offensive line and not Ben but did Bob forget how that was apart of the equation in evaluating Arians just a few short months ago?

And funny how there is no mention of Randy Fitchner who probably talks to Ben as much as Arians does.

The biggest thing that bothers me about this, "Ben isn't playing the way he could be" argument is that fans are going to try and make this and at the same time, call him a top 5 QB a Hall of Famer, and how ESPN unfairly treats him like Brady and Brees because of his different playing style. You can't have it both ways.

Chidi29
01-12-2012, 09:58 PM
The case against Arians-Bob Smizik (http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31506-the-case-against-arians)


This is about Bruce Arians and why he should not be the offensive coordinator of the Steelers. It’s not about what an unimaginative and predictable play-caller he is. It’s not about what a dreary offense he runs. I don’t believe either to be the case.

My belief that Arians should step aside -- as gently as possibly because he deserves that -- is based on what many people believe to be his strength: His relationship with quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. The two men are close. It has been described as a friendship; as a father-son relationship; as an uncle-nephew relationship. Whatever, this type of a relationship is viewed as a positive.

I view it as a negative. Roethlisberger doesn’t need a friend, a father or an uncle as his offensive coordinator. He needs a boss. Not a tyrant, but someone to lead him to a better place. Arians is not capable, because of the long-standing close relationship, of altering Roethlisberger’s style.

I’m not sure Roethlisberger has a boss with the Steelers. And that’s not a knock on him. By most accounts, he’s been a team guy, not a prima-donna in his latest reincarnation.

But he is the organization’s $100 million man and, as such, gets special treatment. Nothing wrong with that either -- to an extent. But the Steelers have allowed Roethlisberger to become too undisciplined in his approach to the job. He needs someone to make him more adhere to a specific offense.

read more....http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31506-the-case-against-arians

Plus, I disagree with his premise anyway. First, that's a statement that can't really be backed up. Does he know what is going on in the locker room? What in Ben's game makes him look any less disciplined than previous years?

I thikn Ben had his best year in terms of getting the ball away quickly and he has really developed his mental game. He's not perfect and the aspects Bob talks about aren't perfect either and probably never will be but he's showing yearly progression and had another fantastic year. Why mess with it? Why is a good relationship between QB and OC a bad thing?

Chidi29
01-12-2012, 09:59 PM
Smizik basically calls for Ben to be like Brady, Brees, and Rodgers but in an October 24th article he writes, "Roethlisberger is no Brady and might never be..."

Again Bob, you can't have it both ways.

NCSteeler
01-13-2012, 01:04 AM
Props to Smizik for at least bothering to put a fresh new look on the old and tired act of scapegoating Arians for the myriad problems this team faces in all 3 facets of the game. Pardon me for asking, though, but what the Hell does Arians relationship with Ben have to do with poor starting field position? For a complete lack of TO's created by the defense? For shaky special teams play? For poor (at times) or mediocre (most of the rest) field goal kicking? For giving up a 92 yard game losing drive with just over a minute left against a very average Flacco in perhaps the most important game of the regular season (and at home to boot)? For making an H-back playing out of position look like the second coming of Joe Montana in a playoff game? For the multiple clock management and challenge flag mistakes that the team made?

Sorry, I'm going to defer to the front office.

Bad starting field position - our offense is 5th in yards per drive , while only being 14th in points per drive , sounds like the nick name FieldGoal Bruce actually fits
defense lack of turn overs - our offense is 29th in turning it over, pretty bad combination

Count Steeler
01-13-2012, 05:11 AM
Bad starting field position - our offense is 5th in yards per drive , while only being 14th in points per drive , sounds like the nick name FieldGoal Bruce actually fits
defense lack of turn overs - our offense is 29th in turning it over, pretty bad combination

Seems the defense should take some blame here. Bad starting field position, move the ball, punt away. Opponents should start with bad field position. Get a 3 and out and we get the ball back with much better starting field position. Either our ST's did not perform in keeping returns down, or our defense did not stop opponents deep. They let them move the ball and get us pinned once again.

BlacknGoldBabe
01-13-2012, 06:45 AM
Smizik basically calls for Ben to be like Brady, Brees, and Rodgers but in an October 24th article he writes, "Roethlisberger is no Brady and might never be..."

Again Bob, you can't have it both ways.

Bob must have CRS :crazy:

suitanim
01-13-2012, 08:51 AM
Bad starting field position - our offense is 5th in yards per drive , while only being 14th in points per drive , sounds like the nick name FieldGoal Bruce actually fits
defense lack of turn overs - our offense is 29th in turning it over, pretty bad combination

Without knowing you said it, you said it. We were also 29th in starting field position last time I looked. Because of lack of turnovers, our average starting field position sucked. We were 5th in yards per drive because we actually HAVE a good offense (in spite of the line). The reason we drop to 14th in points is simply a measure of having so much more field between us and 28 of the 31 other teams. If our offense really sucked as bad as you myopic Arians scapegoaters claimed, we'd be bottom 3rd in yards per drive and bottom 3rd in points per drive and overall scoring.

As I've said a million times before, you can't be critical of chess if you only understand the game of checkers, and that's exactly what dumping all or almost all the blame for this teams shortcomings on Arians is...

86WARD
01-13-2012, 09:01 AM
I guess I'm content with old and slow.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2012, 10:56 AM
According to this site, http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/12/how-important-is-opponent-starting.html the Steelers were 11th in average opponent starting field position which correlates to win percentage and yes...the Steelers had a 12-4 record.

Steelers had the 5th most fumbles lost, the 15th most interceptions thrown and the 30th ranked fumbles recovered and 25th in defensive interceptions. On average, they start drives at their own 27 yard line, while the 49ers start theirs at the 33 yard line.

The Packers give up more yards to opponents than they gain. The Saints are ranked #21 in turnover differential, the Steelers are #29, but the Saints score 13.9 more points per game than the Steelers. I just think many on the board are tired of hearing how the Steelers CAN be as productive on offense as the Saints, Patriots, Packers ......it would be nice to see the Offense back it up.

X-Terminator
01-13-2012, 11:04 AM
According to this site, http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/12/how-important-is-opponent-starting.html the Steelers were 11th in average opponent starting field position which correlates to win percentage and yes...the Steelers had a 12-4 record.

Steelers had the 5th most fumbles lost, the 15th most interceptions thrown and the 30th ranked fumbles recovered and 25th in defensive interceptions. On average, they start drives at their own 27 yard line, while the 49ers start theirs at the 33 yard line.

The Packers give up more yards to opponents than they gain. The Saints are ranked #21 in turnover differential, the Steelers are #29, but the Saints score 13.9 more points per game than the Steelers. I just think many on the board are tired of hearing how the Steelers CAN be as productive on offense as the Saints, Patriots, Packers ......it would be nice to see the Offense back it up.

And what is the one constant among those 3 teams? If you said a better OL, go to the head of the class. The guys up front being semi-competent makes a HUGE difference. Improve the OL, and the offense improves as a whole. This isn't rocket science, but yet, so many fans want to put ALL of the blame on "Field Goal Bruce" and refuse to consider any other factors that go into a successful offense.

GBMelBlount
01-13-2012, 11:15 AM
And what is the one constant among those 3 teams? If you said a better OL, go to the head of the class.

The guys up front being semi-competent makes a HUGE difference. Improve the OL, and the offense improves as a whole. This isn't rocket science, but yet, so many fans want to put ALL of the blame on "Field Goal Bruce" and refuse to consider any other factors that go into a successful offense.

ABSOLUTELY.

A better offensive line would increase our scoring, decrease turnovers and improve field position...

That being said....I am still not an Arians fan. :behindsofa:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2012, 11:54 AM
And what is the one constant among those 3 teams? If you said a better OL, go to the head of the class. The guys up front being semi-competent makes a HUGE difference. Improve the OL, and the offense improves as a whole. This isn't rocket science, but yet, so many fans want to put ALL of the blame on "Field Goal Bruce" and refuse to consider any other factors that go into a successful offense.
There are at least 20 other teams with better O lines than us. I believe the Saints have the best O line in the NFL. But the Packers with Marshall Newhouse, Scott Wells, TJ Lang, Josh Sitton are nothing special. They get the ball out quick and score points.

I'm tired of hearing every August how Ben is in the same class as Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers...when the offenses are not the same. The Steelers offense is going to be average again next season and the defense is no longer as dominant as it was 2 or 3 years ago that it can keep the Offense in games or score points.

suitanim
01-13-2012, 12:17 PM
There are at least 20 other teams with better O lines than us. I believe the Saints have the best O line in the NFL. But the Packers with Marshall Newhouse, Scott Wells, TJ Lang, Josh Sitton are nothing special. They get the ball out quick and score points.

I'm tired of hearing every August how Ben is in the same class as Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers...when the offenses are not the same. The Steelers offense is going to be average again next season and the defense is no longer as dominant as it was 2 or 3 years ago that it can keep the Offense in games or score points.

So we should......what? Pass more?

I completely 100% disagree with your assessment of the offense. This team USED to have decent skill players, an average QB, a good RB and a great line, and they won, but they didn't win Super Bowl's. It had NOTHING to do with the OC.

Now the team has at least a top 10 QB, if not better, great skill players, an above average RB tandem, and a shitty OL. They won Super Bowl's with this configuration because the OL was a little below average. It has gotten worse. We are perhaps a CURRENT olineman staying healthy (thinking Pouncey) and 1-2 new guys, or maybe newer guys improving along the front away from winning Super Bowl's again.

There is WAY too much blame being placed on Arians. It makes no sense. It's illogical and irrational, knee-jerk, reflexive scapegoating.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2012, 01:59 PM
So we should......what? Pass more?

I completely 100% disagree with your assessment of the offense. This team USED to have decent skill players, an average QB, a good RB and a great line, and they won, but they didn't win Super Bowl's. It had NOTHING to do with the OC.

Now the team has at least a top 10 QB, if not better, great skill players, an above average RB tandem, and a shitty OL. They won Super Bowl's with this configuration because the OL was a little below average. It has gotten worse. We are perhaps a CURRENT olineman staying healthy (thinking Pouncey) and 1-2 new guys, or maybe newer guys improving along the front away from winning Super Bowl's again.

There is WAY too much blame being placed on Arians. It makes no sense. It's illogical and irrational, knee-jerk, reflexive scapegoating.

There are very few teams in the NFL that are concerned that the Steelers offense will get to the 10 yard line, control the line of scrimmage and physically dominate the Defensive front and score. They are worried that Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown will run by them....but not from the 10 yard line. And since there is no threat of the vertical speed in the red zone, you cant run a bubble screen from there either. That is why the Steelers can put up statistics, but end up kicking FG's instead of scoring TD's.

I am not advocating going back to 1970's run dominated football. I am and always have advocated the balance between a good passing game and a physical run game. Since 2007 that notion of having a physical running game has been devalued and the Steelers have become a soft passing team. Joey Porter called the 2005 Colts "soft". The 2011 Steelers offense has become softer than that Colts Offense was.

I would like to see a change, but probably will not for at least 2 more years.

suitanim
01-13-2012, 03:45 PM
All we have to do is upgrade SLIGHTLY along the offensive line. If we do that, we can run a little better, which will force teams to respect our run game a little more, which will, in turn, open up our pass game. All of that is applicable both in AND out of the redzone.

We aren't far off here....it's not broke, it's just a little damaged. It's far better to fix it then to tear it all up TRYING to fix what isn't already broken. And if we DID apply that philosophy, it'd be much more appropriate to start with our defense than our offense.

Texasteel
01-13-2012, 04:05 PM
Both offense and defense can be greatly improved by strengthening the line. We have finally shown a movement in that direction in the last couple of years and I expect it to continue. This is a good draft to do just that.

ALLD
01-13-2012, 04:26 PM
I guess I'm content with old and slow.

Brett Favre

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2012, 05:48 PM
Both offense and defense can be greatly improved by strengthening the line. We have finally shown a movement in that direction in the last couple of years and I expect it to continue. This is a good draft to do just that. We could add DeCastro and Jon Martin to this O line from the draft and our offensive will still rank around 12-15th in the league and somewhere 15-20th in scoring. Just wait until next October and we can all feel the deja vu.

86WARD
01-13-2012, 06:13 PM
Draft a center and move Pouncey to guard...wow!

Texasteel
01-13-2012, 06:49 PM
We could add DeCastro and Jon Martin to this O line from the draft and our offensive will still rank around 12-15th in the league and somewhere 15-20th in scoring. Just wait until next October and we can all feel the deja vu.

You never really know what is going to happen year to year, but I would suspect that a stronger OL would help greatly with a stronger running game, particularly in the red zone. If the defenders have to think about the running game more they would not be able to consentrate on Ben. I would also expect that a stronger middle of the line would cut down on the free runs to Ben by the defenders.

The main deja vu steelers have to deal with is that the Steelers, most year, are in the middle of the title race with a very good chance to make the playoffs. I don't see that as a bad thing.

NCSteeler
01-13-2012, 11:36 PM
Without knowing you said it, you said it. We were also 29th in starting field position last time I looked. Because of lack of turnovers, our average starting field position sucked. We were 5th in yards per drive because we actually HAVE a good offense (in spite of the line). The reason we drop to 14th in points is simply a measure of having so much more field between us and 28 of the 31 other teams. If our offense really sucked as bad as you myopic Arians scapegoaters claimed, we'd be bottom 3rd in yards per drive and bottom 3rd in points per drive and overall scoring.

As I've said a million times before, you can't be critical of chess if you only understand the game of checkers, and that's exactly what dumping all or almost all the blame for this teams shortcomings on Arians is...

We are actually 25th in starting field position at something like 26.6 yard line, the 28.8 would move us into the top ten, so not a big difference. The league average is 28.4 for the season. On a side note the best at limiting opponents starting field position is SF, one more reason they are as good as they are. Our Sts are 14th in the league for opponents starting position.

NCSteeler
01-13-2012, 11:41 PM
And what is the one constant among those 3 teams? If you said a better OL, go to the head of the class. The guys up front being semi-competent makes a HUGE difference. Improve the OL, and the offense improves as a whole. This isn't rocket science, but yet, so many fans want to put ALL of the blame on "Field Goal Bruce" and refuse to consider any other factors that go into a successful offense.

Are you sure the Oline on many of those teams are not better by play design? How can it be teams that have positioned int eh draft around the same position as us have so much better lines? And don't say they draft better because I'm always told here in reference to Arians that we should defer to the FO, so it's obvious we don't draft poorly. So which is it
A. we draft like total crap
b our coaches don't coach well (position)
c. our play design sucks

It seems like it has to one of them

X-Terminator
01-14-2012, 12:25 AM
Are you sure the Oline on many of those teams are not better by play design? How can it be teams that have positioned int eh draft around the same position as us have so much better lines? And don't say they draft better because I'm always told here in reference to Arians that we should defer to the FO, so it's obvious we don't draft poorly. So which is it
A. we draft like total crap
b our coaches don't coach well (position)
c. our play design sucks

It seems like it has to one of them

That's the case for the Packers, maybe, but not the Saints or, to a lesser extent, the Patriots*. The Packers' offense clearly is built around Rodgers' strengths, because they cannot run the ball at all. The Patriots* run it about as well as the Steelers do, but they are very good in pass protection and usually give Marsha a day and a half to throw. That alone makes them better than the Steelers' OL. The Saints, as mentioned, probably have the best OL in the NFL and can both run and pass the ball very well, though obviously they are a much better passing team. That is what the Steelers should strive for - be a passing team, but when it comes time to pound it in, they can do it.

But to answer your question, well obviously they didn't draft very well on the OL until the past 2 seasons. They rode the guys they drafted all those years ago and replaced them with mediocre at best talent. I will admit sometimes the play selection isn't very good. And considering that there has already been an OL coaching change, obviously that means coaching has been a problem. So it's all of the above, and again proves my point that it isn't just one factor, nor is it all one person's (Arians) fault. I'm still not getting this incessant need to blame it all on Arians. It doesn't make any sense and is intellectually lazy IMO.

pepsyman1
01-14-2012, 03:14 AM
So we should......what? Pass more?

I completely 100% disagree with your assessment of the offense. This team USED to have decent skill players, an average QB, a good RB and a great line, and they won, but they didn't win Super Bowl's. It had NOTHING to do with the OC.

Now the team has at least a top 10 QB, if not better, great skill players, an above average RB tandem, and a shitty OL. They won Super Bowl's with this configuration because the OL was a little below average. It has gotten worse. We are perhaps a CURRENT olineman staying healthy (thinking Pouncey) and 1-2 new guys, or maybe newer guys improving along the front away from winning Super Bowl's again.

There is WAY too much blame being placed on Arians. It makes no sense. It's illogical and irrational, knee-jerk, reflexive scapegoating.

It's not too much blame being put on Arians. There are plenty of other teams that have O-lines as bad as ours that still manage to score more POINTS. Arians has had a total of 7 years in the NFL as an OC. When have ANY of his teams scored a lot of points? NEVER. He doesn't know how to make best use of the talent we have and refuses to make adjustments to take some pressure off the o-line. It's amazing how we can watch teams use 3 step drops and shorter passes to keep our D from getting to their QB and then our own OC refuses to make the same obvious adjustment for OUR QB when he's barely able to walk. The guy is a stiff and our O will never reach it's true potential under his watch.

Austin87
01-14-2012, 06:28 AM
It's not too much blame being put on Arians. There are plenty of other teams that have O-lines as bad as ours that still manage to score more POINTS. Arians has had a total of 7 years in the NFL as an OC. When have ANY of his teams scored a lot of points? NEVER. He doesn't know how to make best use of the talent we have and refuses to make adjustments to take some pressure off the o-line. It's amazing how we can watch teams use 3 step drops and shorter passes to keep our D from getting to their QB and then our own OC refuses to make the same obvious adjustment for OUR QB when he's barely able to walk. The guy is a stiff and our O will never reach it's true potential under his watch.

Good post!

NCSteeler
01-14-2012, 06:46 AM
That's the case for the Packers, maybe, but not the Saints or, to a lesser extent, the Patriots*. The Packers' offense clearly is built around Rodgers' strengths, because they cannot run the ball at all. The Patriots* run it about as well as the Steelers do, but they are very good in pass protection and usually give Marsha a day and a half to throw. That alone makes them better than the Steelers' OL. The Saints, as mentioned, probably have the best OL in the NFL and can both run and pass the ball very well, though obviously they are a much better passing team. That is what the Steelers should strive for - be a passing team, but when it comes time to pound it in, they can do it.

But to answer your question, well obviously they didn't draft very well on the OL until the past 2 seasons. They rode the guys they drafted all those years ago and replaced them with mediocre at best talent. I will admit sometimes the play selection isn't very good. And considering that there has already been an OL coaching change, obviously that means coaching has been a problem. So it's all of the above, and again proves my point that it isn't just one factor, nor is it all one person's (Arians) fault. I'm still not getting this incessant need to blame it all on Arians. It doesn't make any sense and is intellectually lazy IMO.

I think were on the same page, but what I'm saying is something has got to change. I don't believe that a slightly better Oline will make much difference, so something else needs to get better too.

Texasteel
01-14-2012, 07:29 AM
Are you sure the Oline on many of those teams are not better by play design? How can it be teams that have positioned int eh draft around the same position as us have so much better lines? And don't say they draft better because I'm always told here in reference to Arians that we should defer to the FO, so it's obvious we don't draft poorly. So which is it
A. we draft like total crap
b our coaches don't coach well (position)
c. our play design sucks

It seems like it has to one of them

I think there is a D.

D. Our line either miss their blocks, or gets driven into the backfield, or pick up a stupid penalty.

IMO we have seen a lot of D the last few years, and I think this is the major problem, particularly in the red zone.

I think a better line will fix a large part of the problem.

The WH
01-14-2012, 09:13 AM
So why no hate tossed the way of Dick Lebeau?

Shoes
01-14-2012, 10:22 AM
So why no hate tossed the way of Dick Lebeau?

I have no hate toward Lebeau at all......I just think he should retire and hand the mantle over to Keith Butler. It's time IMO......

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-14-2012, 10:54 AM
You never really know what is going to happen year to year, but I would suspect that a stronger OL would help greatly with a stronger running game, particularly in the red zone. If the defenders have to think about the running game more they would not be able to consentrate on Ben. I would also expect that a stronger middle of the line would cut down on the free runs to Ben by the defenders.

The main deja vu steelers have to deal with is that the Steelers, most year, are in the middle of the title race with a very good chance to make the playoffs. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Tex, conventional wisdom would say that if we had a better interior line, that we should be able to run the ball more effectively. I just dont see it happening, even if we had better talent. Have you seen the Steelers be a good physical run team in the past 5 years?

Cleveland once had our coordinator calling the plays there, with guys like Jeff Faine, Shaun O'Hara, Ross Tucker, Barry Stokes, Ross Verba on that line. They were plagued with the inability to run the ball in short yardage, but always managed to pass the ball for 3000- 3500 yards, with guys like Kelly Holcomb or Tim Couch at QB.

I agree, that the threat of a run game will open more in the pass game, but nobody puts 8 or 9 men in the box to stop the Steelers run game. Unlike what we had to do against Denver last week.

ShutDown24
01-14-2012, 11:24 AM
So why no hate tossed the way of Dick Lebeau?

I'll quote a post I authored on another forum;


How is the game "catching up" to Dick LeBeau's schemes??? The Steelers only allowed 14.2 points per game this season. Throw out all the 'yards against' stats that this defense also led the league in if you want, but at the end of the day - this team allowed the fewest points per game in the league. In fact, they allowed fewer points per game than the top ranked defenses over the previous two seasons as well. Fewer than the 2010 #1 Ranked Pittsburgh Steelers and fewer than the 2009 #1 Ranked New York Jets. That 2008 Steelers defense, which is largely believed to be one of the greatest defenses of all time, allowed 13.9 points per game. Only a hair less than this years squad. I just don't see any type of argument here.

Texasteel
01-14-2012, 04:31 PM
Tex, conventional wisdom would say that if we had a better interior line, that we should be able to run the ball more effectively. I just dont see it happening, even if we had better talent. Have you seen the Steelers be a good physical run team in the past 5 years?

Cleveland once had our coordinator calling the plays there, with guys like Jeff Faine, Shaun O'Hara, Ross Tucker, Barry Stokes, Ross Verba on that line. They were plagued with the inability to run the ball in short yardage, but always managed to pass the ball for 3000- 3500 yards, with guys like Kelly Holcomb or Tim Couch at QB.

I agree, that the threat of a run game will open more in the pass game, but nobody puts 8 or 9 men in the box to stop the Steelers run game. Unlike what we had to do against Denver last week.

When BA took over with the Browns he was given a RB (James Jackson) that could only be called a complete bust. The next year they drafted a RB (William Green) that may have been good in collage, but his off the field problems kept him from being anything but ordinary, at best. In fact his backup out gain him BAs last year in Cleveland. I don't think a HOF line could do much for Jackson, Green, and a often injured Lee Suggs. I myself don't thing that any of them are close to the RBs we have. I have seen Mindy, and Redman turn a small crease into a nice run, but neither of them can do much when they are hit before they get to the line of scrimage.

I have seen our OTs waving at air as they watched a speed rusher go by, and get knocked back into the pocket to often, and I have seen pass rushers come through the middle of our line like they had a 5 year head start. Is part of this play calling? Maybe. IMO, not all, not even most. I still think that a better line will help this offense greatly. I hope I am right, and I have an idea so do you.

I do agree that this has become more of a passing team, and BA is more of a passing OC, he has even pissed me off a few times. How ever, I think that is natural with the QB we have.

zulater
01-14-2012, 08:09 PM
Earlier today I watched a DVD of the Steelers playoff win over the Bengals from 2005. That offense with a second year quarterback operated with so much more cohesion than any Steeler offense I've seen of late. So I looked in my media guide, and then noticed that offense, despite Ben missing a 3 full games due to injury, despite facing one of the league's toughest schedules outscored this years offense by over 80 points. The 2005 offense's skill players weren't even close to what we have now. Cedric Wilson was our #2 receiver for God's sake! Heath Miller was a rookie!

And oh yeah Ken Whisenhunt was our offensive coordinater. Guess there was a reason he was pursued for head coaching jobs around the league, and the current guy never is.

BlastFurnace
01-14-2012, 09:03 PM
I'm watching a real offense operate tonight against Denver.

The Steelers "light up the scoreboard" offense doesn't hold a candle to the Patriots offense either in coaching or execution.

Brady sees his TE is open and is successful throwing to him...what does Brady do...he keeps doing it. The Steelers have Miller combo operating great in the first drive last week...what do the Steelers do.....

Shoes
01-14-2012, 09:05 PM
I'm watching a real offense operate tonight against Denver.

The Steelers "light up the scoreboard" offense doesn't hold a candle to the Patriots offense either in coaching or execution.

I'm just happy we aren't in NE tonight!

Edman
01-14-2012, 09:12 PM
The Steelers are being systematically embarrassed tonight, and they're not even playing.

The terrible Patriots D is making Tebow look what he really is...absolute garbage after we made him look AMAZING.

And the Patriots Offense is showing Ben and Arians just how to run an offense.

I just don't care what anyone says, the Steelers had no business losing to this subpar Broncos team. With Arians being retained, we're going to be seeing the same old mediocre garbage in 2012. Zulater has a point, our former OC that Ben "hated" got a HC job, while our "Fine" OC who Ben "likes" isn't.

I think Ben is becoming a Brett Favre and I'm getting tired of him.

Edman
01-14-2012, 09:25 PM
I'm watching a real offense operate tonight against Denver.

The Steelers "light up the scoreboard" offense doesn't hold a candle to the Patriots offense either in coaching or execution.

Brady sees his TE is open and is successful throwing to him...what does Brady do...he keeps doing it. The Steelers have Miller combo operating great in the first drive last week...what do the Steelers do.....

Stop throwing to Miller of course.

It's just as genius as underutilizing Isaac Redman and running an ineffective Mendenhall all season.

fansince'76
01-14-2012, 09:30 PM
I think Ben is becoming a Brett Favre and I'm getting tired of him.

You'll be singing a different tune when he's gone. I guarantee it. Especially if things play out like they did when Bradshaw retired.

Edman
01-14-2012, 09:41 PM
You'll be singing a different tune when he's gone. I guarantee it. Especially if things play out like they did when Bradshaw retired.

I will, because like Favre in his prime, Ben really is a good Quarterback and the best one we seen in this town, also, like Favre, he felt he was above everything.

Ben ferverently defends and likes Arians despite witnessing pathetic scoring and offensive execution, and what Ben wants, Ben gets.

Texasteel
01-14-2012, 09:42 PM
Earlier today I watched a DVD of the Steelers playoff win over the Bengals from 2005. That offense with a second year quarterback operated with so much more cohesion than any Steeler offense I've seen of late. So I looked in my media guide, and then noticed that offense, despite Ben missing a 3 full games due to injury, despite facing one of the league's toughest schedules outscored this years offense by over 80 points. The 2005 offense's skill players weren't even close to what we have now. Cedric Wilson was our #2 receiver for God's sake! Heath Miller was a rookie!

And oh yeah Ken Whisenhunt was our offensive coordinater. Guess there was a reason he was pursued for head coaching jobs around the league, and the current guy never is.

In 2005 we were 9th in scoring with 389. The offensive line consisted of Marvel Smith LT, Alan Fanica LG, Jeff Hartings C, Kendall Simmons RG, Max Starks RT.

In 2007, BAs first year as OC, we were 9th in scoring with 393. The offensive line consisted of Marvel Smith LT, Alan Faneca LG, Sean Mahan C, Kendall Simmons RT, Willie Colon RT.

The following year we were 20th in scoring with 347, as the OL went south. Marvel Smith only played in 5 games and was replaced by Max Starks that lost his job at RT, Alan Faneca left and was replaced by Chris Kemoeeatu, the OC was Justin Hartwig, RG was played by a rookie Darnell Stapleton, Willie Colon did stay at RT.

The line since then has been piss poor, IMO. and frequently has looked like a patch work quilt the last 2 year. I do really think the OL does have something to do with it.

Whisenhunt may be looking for another OC job before to long.

X-Terminator
01-14-2012, 09:52 PM
It doesn't matter, Tex. All of the Arians haters refuse to understand that everything with the offense starts up front. If anyone really thinks otherwise, then they're just scapegoating. Give this team a better OL, and I promise you they'd produce much better than they have.

Oh BTW - about Brady always throwing to the TE. Well, it's not like he has a whole lot of options at WR other than Wes Welker. Their offense is built mainly around Gronkowski and Hernandez, and who wouldn't want to throw to those two big ass targets? Not to mention the fact that their OL is much better at pass protection than the Steelers'...but again, that doesn't matter. It's all on the OC.

zulater
01-14-2012, 09:55 PM
In 2005 we were 9th in scoring with 389. The offensive line consisted of Marvel Smith LT, Alan Fanica LG, Jeff Hartings C, Kendall Simmons RG, Max Starks RT.

In 2007, BAs first year as OC, we were 9th in scoring with 393. The offensive line consisted of Marvel Smith LT, Alan Faneca LG, Sean Mahan C, Kendall Simmons RT, Willie Colon RT.

The following year we were 20th in scoring with 347, as the OL went south. Marvel Smith only played in 5 games and was replaced by Max Starks that lost his job at RT, Alan Faneca left and was replaced by Chris Kemoeeatu, the OC was Justin Hartwig, RG was played by a rookie Darnell Stapleton, Willie Colon did stay at RT.

The line since then has been piss poor, IMO. and frequently has looked like a patch work quilt the last 2 year. I do really think the OL does have something to do with it.

Whisenhunt may be looking for another OC job before to long.

First off Whisenhunt is in no danger of losing his head coaching job.

2nd, if he did any team with an opening at OC would bring him in for an interview.

He's 10x the OC Bruce will ever think of being.

zulater
01-14-2012, 09:59 PM
It doesn't matter, Tex. All of the Arians haters refuse to understand that everything with the offense starts up front. If anyone really thinks otherwise, then they're just scapegoating. Give this team a better OL, and I promise you they'd produce much better than they have.

Oh BTW - about Brady always throwing to the TE. Well, it's not like he has a whole lot of options at WR other than Wes Welker. Their offense is built mainly around Gronkowski and Hernandez, and who wouldn't want to throw to those two big ass targets? Not to mention the fact that their OL is much better at pass protection than the Steelers'...but again, that doesn't matter. It's all on the OC.

Max Starks was inconsistent at right guard in 2005. And Kendall Simmons flat out sucked. That offensive line wasn't as good as you think it was.

I don't hate Arains, but I'm sick of all the Arains love.

Borrowing from Chris Berman..

Nobody circles the wagons like the Bruce Arians brigade!

BlastFurnace
01-14-2012, 10:06 PM
Max Starks was inconsistent at right guard in 2005. And Kendall Simmons flat out sucked. That offensive line wasn't as good as you think it was.

I don't hate Arains, but I'm sick of all the Arains love.

Borrowing from Chris Berman..

Nobody circles the wagons like the Bruce Arians brigade!

It's laughable that anyone can defend Arians or LeBeau after tonight.

Field Goal Bruce and his light up the scoreboard student would have made tonights game a nailbiter.

Texasteel
01-14-2012, 10:09 PM
First off Whisenhunt is in no danger of losing his head coaching job.

2nd, if he did any team with an opening at OC would bring him in for an interview.

He's 10x the OC Bruce will ever think of being.

I hope your right, I hate to see anyone loose their job.

As far as the last statement, I don't agree, and I don't think his 3 years in Pittsburgh shows it.

Texasteel
01-14-2012, 10:16 PM
Max Starks was inconsistent at right guard in 2005. And Kendall Simmons flat out sucked. That offensive line wasn't as good as you think it was.

I don't hate Arains, but I'm sick of all the Arains love.

Borrowing from Chris Berman.


Nobody circles the wagons like the Bruce Arians brigade!

Its funny how anyone that refuses to lay all the problems with this team at BAs feet, or even dare to say there are other problems automaticly become BA lovers.

zulater
01-14-2012, 10:21 PM
Its funny how anyone that refuses to lay all the problems with this team at BAs feet, or even dare to say there are other problems automaticly become BA lovers.

It's funny how a mediocre coach has so many hard core fans? Hell when Tom Moore was a Steelers coach no one even knew who he was. :lol:

By the way, anyone want to lay "all the blame for this team's problems on Arians doorstep? Anyone?

I'm guessing no.

There's a lot of problems, he's just one of them imo.

Last thing. Why did Ben get hurt? You remember that play? He had an easy opportunity to throw the ball harmlessly away. The situation called for it in fact. But he had to be a hero. Some plays it makes sense to fight for every last chance. that wasn't one of them. His head was up his ass, and his leg got doubled over as a result.

Ben needs to start answering for poor decision making. Our only chance of overcoming our rapidly aging defense that is no longer capable of carrying the team is for the offense to step up and become elite. We have playmakers that are favorably comparable to anyone's. But we turn the ball over and take way too many sacks. some of that's on the offensive line. But not nearly as much as some people believe.

Fixes need to be made. People need to start to evaluate themselves differently. Sadly I doubt it will happen. It seems the status quo has to be maintained at all costs. Bah I'm sick of it.

At least I am tonight. :chuckle: Admitedly I've had a few, and last week's disaster is finally hitting home!

Psycho Ward 86
01-14-2012, 11:18 PM
So why no hate tossed the way of Dick Lebeau?

are you suggesting there should be? and why?

1st in scoring defense, 1st in total defense, 1st in pass defense, 9th in rush defense and the guy is washed up based on one game? No one on the planet could have foreseen that kind of performance from Tebow #CMON MAN

Steeldude
01-14-2012, 11:25 PM
Its funny how anyone that refuses to lay all the problems with this team at BAs feet, or even dare to say there are other problems automaticly become BA lovers.

and anyone who suggests arians is also at fault is labeled a hater. the hater accusations always seem to be born first.

Steeldude
01-14-2012, 11:30 PM
are you suggesting there should be? and why?

1st in scoring defense, 1st in total defense, 1st in pass defense, 9th in rush defense and the guy is washed up based on one game? No one on the planet could have foreseen that kind of performance from Tebow #CMON MAN

it wasn't a surprise knowing the history of the steelers and how they play down to horrible opponents.

generally, when you have the #1 passing defense your overall defense is going to be ranked high in terms of total yards. the stats are skewed. look how many backup QBs, poor QBs and rookie QBs the steelers played this year.

i wouldn't say lebeau is washed up. i would say he has become complacent. that's no based off one game.

Steeldude
01-14-2012, 11:32 PM
It's laughable that anyone can defend Arians or LeBeau after tonight.

Field Goal Bruce and his light up the scoreboard student would have made tonights game a nailbiter.

didn't you know? it's about execution only, not coaching. i don't even know why they need coaches.

tube517
01-14-2012, 11:32 PM
Can we just make one big Arians thread for "haters" or "lovers" to debate? I usually skip over these but damn, I get tired of seeing his name in every thread.

:lala:

:deadhorse:

:yawn:

NCSteeler
01-14-2012, 11:42 PM
So why no hate tossed the way of Dick Lebeau?

Man has earned enough to get a pass on a few bad games, or hell a few bad seasons. He's truly one of the greats.

Steeldude
01-14-2012, 11:42 PM
It doesn't matter, Tex. All of the Arians haters refuse to understand that everything with the offense starts up front. If anyone really thinks otherwise, then they're just scapegoating. Give this team a better OL, and I promise you they'd produce much better than they have.

Oh BTW - about Brady always throwing to the TE. Well, it's not like he has a whole lot of options at WR other than Wes Welker. Their offense is built mainly around Gronkowski and Hernandez, and who wouldn't want to throw to those two big ass targets? Not to mention the fact that their OL is much better at pass protection than the Steelers'...but again, that doesn't matter. It's all on the OC.

heaven forbid the steelers use 3-step drops and/or shorter routes. just send those WRs out 10+ yards every play and tell BR to run around until someone is open. then every so often throw in the easily defensed WR bubble screen.

remember it's never arians' fault. it's always about execution. it's not arians' fault the players didn't execute the plays he called. so what if it's 4 and 15 and arians calls a QB sneak. if BR doesn't pick up the first then it's the players' fault, not arians.

brady reads the field quicker than BR which helps his O-line. the patriots also employ short passing routes and utilize their TE. this also helps the O-line.

NCSteeler
01-14-2012, 11:56 PM
I'm watching a real offense operate tonight against Denver.

The Steelers "light up the scoreboard" offense doesn't hold a candle to the Patriots offense either in coaching or execution.

Brady sees his TE is open and is successful throwing to him...what does Brady do...he keeps doing it. The Steelers have Miller combo operating great in the first drive last week...what do the Steelers do.....

Beyond lighting up the score board, when the patriots, Saints, hell even the 49ers went no huddle/hurry up they looked like they had actually heard the playcall once before, they looked efficient, competent and urgent. I don't think I have seen our offense look like that in at least a season. That is all about coaching.

NCSteeler
01-14-2012, 11:57 PM
heaven forbid the steelers use 3-step drops and/or shorter routes. just send those WRs out 10+ yards every play and tell BR to run around until someone is open. then every so often throw in the easily defensed WR bubble screen.

remember it's never arians' fault. it's always about execution. it's not arians' fault the players didn't execute the plays he called. so what if it's 4 and 15 and arians calls a QB sneak. if BR doesn't pick up the first then it's the players' fault, not arians.

brady reads the field quicker than BR which helps his O-line. the patriots also employ short passing routes and utilize their TE. this also helps the O-line.

In my mind "execution" and good coaching go hand in hand, those player execute better because somewhere along the line during the week, month or training camp a coach coached them.

Steeldude
01-15-2012, 12:11 AM
In my mind "execution" and good coaching go hand in hand, those player execute better because somewhere along the line during the week, month or training camp a coach coached them.

exactly

Texasteel
01-15-2012, 12:14 AM
It's funny how a mediocre coach has so many hard core fans? Hell when Tom Moore was a Steelers coach no one even knew who he was. :lol:

By the way, anyone want to lay "all the blame for this team's problems on Arians doorstep? Anyone?

I'm guessing no.

There's a lot of problems, he's just one of them imo.

Last thing. Why did Ben get hurt? You remember that play? He had an easy opportunity to throw the ball harmlessly away. The situation called for it in fact. But he had to be a hero. Some plays it makes sense to fight for every last chance. that wasn't one of them. His head was up his ass, and his leg got doubled over as a result.

Ben needs to start answering for poor decision making. Our only chance of overcoming our rapidly aging defense that is no longer capable of carrying the team is for the offense to step up and become elite. We have playmakers that are favorably comparable to anyone's. But we turn the ball over and take way too many sacks. some of that's on the offensive line. But not nearly as much as some people believe.

Fixes need to be made. People need to start to evaluate themselves differently. Sadly I doubt it will happen. It seems the status quo has to be maintained at all costs. Bah I'm sick of it.

At least I am tonight. :chuckle: Admitedly I've had a few, and last week's disaster is finally hitting home!

Zu, there are those that think firing BA will fix all, or at least most of the problem. I never said you were one of them. There are those that think anyone that doesn't agree that BA is just God awful have one or two screws loose. I never said you were one of them either. I anwsered the last post because I felt it was directed at me, I normaly just ignore such statements. My original post didn't even mention BA, but was about a better line helping to solve a lot of the problems we have. I still think that.

I know what you are saying about Bens injury, it pisses me off as well, mostly because it didn't have to happen, and shouldn't have happened. We have problems to fix, and players to change, and coaches to learn for old mistakes. I do think that all three will happen, I have that much trust in the organization. One thing I think I can promise that not matter how good this or any team gets, players will still make mistake, coaches will still make some bad calls, and Goodell will continue to screw the whole thing up.

Next time let me know when you've had a few, I'll try to catch up.

Edman
01-15-2012, 12:28 AM
So why no hate tossed the way of Dick Lebeau?

Because Lebeau has made the most of his players and schemes, trotting out top-ranked Defenses every year. More often than not, the Steelers, despite their "Light up the scoreboard" Franchise QB and his OC bestest-best-buddy, still live and die on their Defense. When the Defense fails, the Steelers typically lose. Our Offense can suck every week and we'd not be in danger of losing. It's all on the Defense to salvage games and cover up for our incompetant offense. This Offense is just not capable of stepping up and making crucial plays and critical scores when the Defense falters.

Every year it's the same thing. The Defense is called upon to rescue this team from the soup because our "Light Up the Scoreboard" Offense is stuck in neutral. I'm getting tired of it.

NCSteeler
01-15-2012, 03:28 AM
Because Lebeau has made the most of his players and schemes, trotting out top-ranked Defenses every year. More often than not, the Steelers, despite their "Light up the scoreboard" Franchise QB and his OC bestest-best-buddy, still live and die on their Defense. When the Defense fails, the Steelers typically lose. Our Offense can suck every week and we'd not be in danger of losing. It's all on the Defense to salvage and over up for our incompetant offense. This Offense is just not capable of stepping up and making crucial plays when the Defense falters.

Great post!

BlastFurnace
01-15-2012, 07:23 AM
Zu, there are those that think firing BA will fix all, or at least most of the problem. I never said you were one of them. There are those that think anyone that doesn't agree that BA is just God awful have one or two screws loose. I never said you were one of them either. I anwsered the last post because I felt it was directed at me, I normaly just ignore such statements. My original post didn't even mention BA, but was about a better line helping to solve a lot of the problems we have. I still think that.

I know what you are saying about Bens injury, it pisses me off as well, mostly because it didn't have to happen, and shouldn't have happened. We have problems to fix, and players to change, and coaches to learn for old mistakes. I do think that all three will happen, I have that much trust in the organization. One thing I think I can promise that not matter how good this or any team gets, players will still make mistake, coaches will still make some bad calls, and Goodell will continue to screw the whole thing up.

Next time let me know when you've had a few, I'll try to catch up.

It's not "only" Field Goal Bruce that is the problem. Ben is a part of the problem too as Zu has stated. I think many of us realize that the working relationship between the two needs to be broken up in order to fix the problem...and it won't and shouldn't be Ben that is the one that leaves.

suitanim
01-15-2012, 07:43 AM
I LOL'd many times in this thread.

If only the FO would listen to the wisdom of the SU! Everything would be fixed! P.S. The Rooney's are cheap!

BlastFurnace
01-15-2012, 07:50 AM
I LOL'd many times in this thread.

If only the FO would listen to the wisdom of the SU! Everything would be fixed! P.S. The Rooney's are cheap!

I guess you just ignored what happened last night. You don't know that the FO didn't watch that last night and wonder the same thing. And by the way, the people saying these things on SU aren't the only one's with the same opinion that a change needs to be made in offensive philosophy.

To bring the "Rooney's are cheap" argument into this discussion is just ridiculous. No one is saying that.

Steeldude
01-15-2012, 11:16 AM
I guess you just ignored what happened last night. You don't know that the FO didn't watch that last night and wonder the same thing. And by the way, the people saying these things on SU aren't the only one's with the same opinion that a change needs to be made in offensive philosophy.

To bring the "Rooney's are cheap" argument into this discussion is just ridiculous. No one is saying that.

arians lovers love to exaggerate and inject claims that were never made.

Edman
01-15-2012, 11:59 AM
The San Francisco 49ers offense, with Alex Smith at QB and no all-stars on Offense, exploited the Saints Defense for 39 points. That same defense that shut down the Steelers back in Halloween 2010.

The Patriots Defense, ranked 31st in the league and awful all year, shut down the Tebows effortlessly and their Offense didn't piddle around with Field Goals and putting it in the hands of the defense to save them.

It's what the Steelers Offense lacks. Cohesion and method. They don't attack defenses, they don't exploit matchups, they aren't schematic in their gameplan at all. They rely on Ben freelancing and improvising to make plays happen. When Ben got hurt and his mobility was gone, the Offense collapsed. Arians has stunted Ben's ability as a QB, and may have shortened his career as a result. It's always been that way. Running an ineffective Mendenhall all year into the ground over Redman, who does nothing but make things happen with the ball in his hands.

Mendenhall is a solid recieving back with some good hands. Do we utilize this extra dimension to make the Offense more effective by getting him in space? Nope. Run his ass into the line all season at 2 yards a pop.

While NFL Offenses are progessing in the 21st century, the Steelers are still as unimaginative as ever. No, "imaginative" doesn't mean flea flickers and reverses to Antonio Brown.

X-Terminator
01-15-2012, 03:55 PM
heaven forbid the steelers use 3-step drops and/or shorter routes. just send those WRs out 10+ yards every play and tell BR to run around until someone is open. then every so often throw in the easily defensed WR bubble screen.

remember it's never arians' fault. it's always about execution. it's not arians' fault the players didn't execute the plays he called. so what if it's 4 and 15 and arians calls a QB sneak. if BR doesn't pick up the first then it's the players' fault, not arians.

brady reads the field quicker than BR which helps his O-line. the patriots also employ short passing routes and utilize their TE. this also helps the O-line.

Yes, they should use more short passing routes to take the pressure off Ben and the OL. They also need to get serious about running the football in the red zone, which of course requires a different mindset AND a better offensive line.

What, you didn't think I'd agree with that?

Again, for about the millionth fucking time on this message board, NO ONE who says everything isn't Arians' fault is an "Arians lover." It's a fallacy invented by people who can't handle it when someone doesn't automatically go with the "FIAR ARIENZZZZ" mantra. All we are saying is that there are more factors that go into the success or failure of the offense than just the OC. Arians is the coordinator. Of COURSE some blame falls on him when the offense struggles. But NOT ALL OF IT.

Get it now?

I'm getting tired of having to explain this over...and over...and over...and over...and over again.

fansince'76
01-15-2012, 05:07 PM
I'm getting tired of having to explain this over...and over...and over...and over...and over again.

I'm to the point of simply rolling my eyes and moving on.

zulater
01-15-2012, 06:26 PM
It's not "only" Field Goal Bruce that is the problem. Ben is a part of the problem too as Zu has stated. I think many of us realize that the working relationship between the two needs to be broken up in order to fix the problem...and it won't and shouldn't be Ben that is the one that leaves.

Great post!

zulater
01-15-2012, 06:27 PM
Because Lebeau has made the most of his players and schemes, trotting out top-ranked Defenses every year. More often than not, the Steelers, despite their "Light up the scoreboard" Franchise QB and his OC bestest-best-buddy, still live and die on their Defense. When the Defense fails, the Steelers typically lose. Our Offense can suck every week and we'd not be in danger of losing. It's all on the Defense to salvage games and cover up for our incompetant offense. This Offense is just not capable of stepping up and making crucial plays and critical scores when the Defense falters.

Every year it's the same thing. The Defense is called upon to rescue this team from the soup because our "Light Up the Scoreboard" Offense is stuck in neutral. I'm getting tired of it.

Well stated! :applaudit:

HometownGal
01-16-2012, 05:39 AM
I'm to the point of simply rolling my eyes and moving on.

Do what I usually do and tell these experts to get those resumes in.

suitanim
01-16-2012, 05:49 AM
The Steelers FO, perhaps the best in all sports, noticed what happened in the game last week and promptly................



..............retained the services of the HC, OC, and DC.

I'm tired of snot-nosed spoiled whiners with varying degrees of (and sometimes VERY questionable) knowledge of the game ridiculously oversimplifying and scapegoating. If you WANT an offense that scores 40 points a game, PLEASE jump off the Steelers bandwagon and jump on the Cheatriots. PLEASE! Seriously.

But don't come back when they win their 7th Super Bowl.

zulater
01-16-2012, 06:05 AM
Do what I usually do and tell these experts to get those resumes in.

You don't have to be an accomplished actor to know when the play or movie was awful. A musician to know if the band was playing off key, a writer to know that a story was poorly written, a master chef to know the soup was cold etc...

Clearly the Steelers offense is a work in progress. ( to put it mildly). Some things need to be fixed. We can differ on what needs to be done to right the ship. But obviously something within the Steelers needs to be done to upgrade the effeciency of the offense.

Now we know that the cast will be largely the same, whether we agree with it or not, but one would hope that some self reflection will be done by this coaching staff ( on both sides of the ball) and the areas that were detrimental this season will be addressed with more than lip service.

Texasteel
01-16-2012, 06:28 AM
You don't have to be an accomplished actor to know when the play or movie was awful. A musician to know if the band was playing off key, a writer to know that a story was poorly written, a master chef to know the soup was cold etc...

Clearly the Steelers offense is a work in progress. ( to put it mildly). Some things need to be fixed. We can differ on what needs to be done to right the ship. But obviously something within the Steelers needs to be done to upgrade the effeciency of the offense.

Now we know that the cast will be largely the same, whether we agree with it or not, but one would hope that some self reflection will be done by this coaching staff ( on both sides of the ball) and the areas that were detrimental this season will be addressed with more than lip service.

No, but it helps to be an expert to know how to fix such things. Any fool can start yelling, " It must be his fault, lets fire him." :wink02:

NCSteeler
01-16-2012, 06:44 AM
The Steelers FO, perhaps the best in all sports, noticed what happened in the game last week and promptly................



..............retained the services of the HC, OC, and DC.

I'm tired of snot-nosed spoiled whiners with varying degrees of (and sometimes VERY questionable) knowledge of the game ridiculously oversimplifying and scapegoating. If you WANT an offense that scores 40 points a game, PLEASE jump off the Steelers bandwagon and jump on the Cheatriots. PLEASE! Seriously.

But don't come back when they win their 7th Super Bowl.

How about a little counter argument. I think we should defer to the intelligence of the team owners and the media and they did the right thing this season by retaining Goodell. I know you think you know more about running the league, so I suggest you go buy a team or get that resume ready , I bet they hire you for commish soon. I just don't get how some average fan thinks they know more about how to run the NFL than the commissioner and the owners. If you want you cna go to some other league, but don't come back when the NFL is still the highest rated most money making league, OK.

HometownGal
01-16-2012, 06:49 AM
I just don't get how some average fan thinks they know more about how to run the Steelers than the coaches and owners.

There - fixed that for ya. ;) :heh:

suitanim
01-16-2012, 08:41 AM
How about a little counter argument. I think we should defer to the intelligence of the team owners and the media and they did the right thing this season by retaining Goodell. I know you think you know more about running the league, so I suggest you go buy a team or get that resume ready , I bet they hire you for commish soon. I just don't get how some average fan thinks they know more about how to run the NFL than the commissioner and the owners. If you want you cna go to some other league, but don't come back when the NFL is still the highest rated most money making league, OK.

Wow...you add to a garbage argument by pouring more diversionary garbage on top of it.

Anyway, the Rooney's have a track record of success, and Goodell does not. Since the Steelers have had a Renaissance of late (what team has a better track record in this century?), and NOT a decline, and Goodell is clearly steering the NFL's ship straight into the iceberg, you're making an apples-to-oranges comparison. Why not just make the cycle complete and blame the inevitable decline in NFL viewership (unless Goodell is ousted soon) ALSO Arians fault? I mean, if you're going to blame things on him that he has nothing to do with, why stop at our defense and special teams? Why not, say, Climate change? The price of oil? Guantanamo Bay? Why, if ONLY the Rooney's would listen to you, the whole WORLD would be a better place to live.

Nonsense. If we extrapolate this stupid argument out, there are only two conclusions the scapegoaters can (illogically) arrive at: Either the Rooney's don't know what they are doing, and that's why they are keeping Arians and LeBeau, or, even more illogically, that the Rooney's are too cheap to pay for top-dollar replacements (which is EXACTLY why I resurrected that old retarded and lame argument).

Dino 6 Rings
01-16-2012, 08:45 AM
Oh so as lifelong fans we can't question the Ownership or coaching? Or call it out when we see ineptness that causes losses and pain in our hearts?

Really?

So those 80s, those were ok, hey, we lost a few playoff games, count your blessings...and that game in 95 vs the Cowboys...lets not blame the QB or OC, even though OWNERSHIP DID and BOTH were RAN OUT OF TOWN THE DAY AFTER THE LOSS!

Oh no...lets not question anything...nope...we must worship Bruce and his play calling and not question it ever! Yeah! Awesome call.

suitanim
01-16-2012, 08:55 AM
Oh so as lifelong fans we can't question the Ownership or coaching? Or call it out when we see ineptness that causes losses and pain in our hearts?

Really?

So those 80s, those were ok, hey, we lost a few playoff games, count your blessings...and that game in 95 vs the Cowboys...lets not blame the QB or OC, even though OWNERSHIP DID and BOTH were RAN OUT OF TOWN THE DAY AFTER THE LOSS!

Oh no...lets not question anything...nope...we must worship Bruce and his play calling and not question it ever! Yeah! Awesome call.

That's actually adding to my argument and detracting from yours. The ownership CLEARLY knows what they are doing and your examples are shining tributes to that. What this ownership does NOT do is make ridiculous knee-jerk reflexive decisions based on the over-simplified data, nor do they heap blame on individual scapegoats when the problems clearly go much deeper than that. An example of a team that DOES practice that "logic" is located 100 miles due west, the perennial 5-11 Browns.

All the anger and gnashing of teeth and whining is the sign of a fan base that is spoiled and has lost the ability to step back and reasonably examine the big picture. Like petulant children, they want what they want, and they want it right now. "Fire the coach" is the rallying cry of the lowest common denominator and the intellectually lazy. I'm deeply saddened to see this madness is enveloping even some of the best and brightest posters on this board.

Dino 6 Rings
01-16-2012, 08:59 AM
I only want one Coach fired...NBBFer for LIFE!

and I'm not lazy...of all the people on this board I have broken down more plays and play calling situations than anyone, well maybe Chidi does it more but he also loves Bruce...

I just don't think people read my stat breakdowns so I just go with all emotion in regards to the Bubble Screen Deep Ball play calling.

suitanim
01-16-2012, 09:07 AM
Chidi will tell you, I'm sure, that we ran two variations on that bubble screen against Denver (the same one that Mike Wallace scored about a 2o yard TD on just a couple games ago) that, HAD THEY BEEN EXECUTED PROPERLY, were absolutely beautiful play set-ups designed to disrupt the opponents expectations regarding that play.

In other words, it was fucking brilliant playcalling.

Intellectual laziness is different than laziness in general. It's looking one move down the chess board instead of 15. It's looking at one ripple from the stone tossed into the pond instead of ALL of them. It's looking at one neighborhood in a city and basing your opinion of the entire rest of the city on just that bit you've seen. It's blaming a complete collapse of a defense against a high school offense on an offensive coordinator. It takes many forms...

BlastFurnace
01-16-2012, 09:21 AM
Do what I usually do and tell these experts to get those resumes in.

So is there room for criticism in any area of life...government, healthcare, work, etc.

Or..should people obstain from criticism and just trust the elected officials.

Just because someone is in charge, doesn't make them infallable..nor should it take away a person's right to criticize their actions.

In this case, the Steelers offense and the people playing and in charge deserve the criticism.

BlastFurnace
01-16-2012, 09:23 AM
Oh so as lifelong fans we can't question the Ownership or coaching? Or call it out when we see ineptness that causes losses and pain in our hearts?

Really?

So those 80s, those were ok, hey, we lost a few playoff games, count your blessings...and that game in 95 vs the Cowboys...lets not blame the QB or OC, even though OWNERSHIP DID and BOTH were RAN OUT OF TOWN THE DAY AFTER THE LOSS!

Oh no...lets not question anything...nope...we must worship Bruce and his play calling and not question it ever! Yeah! Awesome call.

Good point.

I never thought that I should be thankful for the Mark Malone years....but maybe I should have been. After all, Chuck Noll wouldn't make a mistake since he was in charge.

Looking back at it, the decision to pass on Marino because we had Woodley and Malone was because it was the right decision...because Noll and the scouts thought it was.

zulater
01-16-2012, 09:27 AM
So is there room for criticism in any area of life...government, healthcare, work, etc.

Or..should people obstain from criticism and just trust the elected officials.

Just because someone is in charge, doesn't make them infallable..nor should it take away a person's right to criticize their actions.

In this case, the Steelers offense and the people playing and in charge deserve the criticism.

Great post! :applaudit:

fansince'76
01-16-2012, 09:50 AM
Well, as has already been mentioned by someone else, if the Steelers can improve red zone efficiency to just one TD more per game on average, I think everyone will be happy. Here's hoping that happens.

zulater
01-16-2012, 10:06 AM
Well, as has already been mentioned by someone else, if the Steelers can improve red zone efficiency to just one TD more per game on average, I think everyone will be happy. Here's hoping that happens.

As do we all! :applaudit:

In the end what it all comes down to is this. With our defense aging we can't expect it to be the driving force of the team next season. So ask yourself this, is our offense Super Bowl caliber? Can our offense be the driving force behind our next Super Bowl run?

Let's take a little trip back into time with our Steelers time machine. Remember how the defense was primarily responsible for our first two Super Bowls? Then Joe Greene got older, Andy Russell retired, and the rules started to be slanted in favor of offense. Guess what happened, Terry Bradshaw and the offense stepped up their game and became one of the most prolific offenses in the league.

Now back to the future. that's what's going to have to happen again if this team is going to compete for Super Bowls in the next couple seasons. Guy's like Ben, Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, Mendenhall, Isaace Redman, Heath Miller etc... are going to have to step it up and start putting points on the board! The offense needs to get out of the sidecar and take the drivers seat this time around!

Yeah I know much of the problem stems from the offensive line. But you're kidding yourself if you think that's all there is to it. This team needs to refocus itself on offense. Ben and Arains need to commit themselves to ball security, red zone effeciency, and better time management.

fansince'76
01-16-2012, 10:08 AM
As do we all! :applaudit:

In the end what it all comes down to is this. With our defense aging we can't expect it to be the driving force of the team next season. So ask yourself this, is our offense Super Bowl caliber? Can our offense be the driving force behind our next Super Bowl run?

Let's take a little trip back into time with our Steelers time machine. Remember how the defense was primarily responsible for our first two Super Bowls? Then Joe Greene got older, Andy Russell retired, and the rules started to be slanted in favor of offense. Guess what happened, Terry Bradshaw and the offense stepped up their game and became one of the most prolific offenses in the league.

Now back to the future. that's what's going to have to happen again if this team is going to compete for Super Bowls in the next couple seasons. Guy's like Ben, Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, Mendenhall, Isaace Redman, Heath Miller etc... are going to have to step it up and start putting points on the board! The offense needs to get out of the sidecar and take the drivers seat this time around!

Yeah I know much of the problem stems from the offensive line. But you're kidding yourself if you think that's all there is to it. This team needs to refocus itself on offense. Ben and Arains need to commit themselves to ball security, red zone effeciency, and time management.

Agreed. I think EVERYONE involved needs to refocus on the offense and scoring next season, players and coaches alike.

suitanim
01-16-2012, 10:32 AM
There is NOTHING WRONG with criticism of the team, as long as it is reasonable and balanced, and not based on emotional reflexive reaction. There have been, quite frankly, RIDICULOUS assertions, stuff bordering on the insane and/or absurd blurted out in these forums as of late, stuff that makes no logical sense. It seems that the more emotionally charged the issue gets, the greater the absurdity.

Chidi29
01-16-2012, 10:53 AM
Chidi will tell you, I'm sure, that we ran two variations on that bubble screen against Denver (the same one that Mike Wallace scored about a 2o yard TD on just a couple games ago) that, HAD THEY BEEN EXECUTED PROPERLY, were absolutely beautiful play set-ups designed to disrupt the opponents expectations regarding that play.

In other words, it was fucking brilliant playcalling.

Intellectual laziness is different than laziness in general. It's looking one move down the chess board instead of 15. It's looking at one ripple from the stone tossed into the pond instead of ALL of them. It's looking at one neighborhood in a city and basing your opinion of the entire rest of the city on just that bit you've seen. It's blaming a complete collapse of a defense against a high school offense on an offensive coordinator. It takes many forms...

You are correct, suit. We've constantly added different wrinkles to the screen game, especially as the season went on and defenses started keying in on it.

X-Terminator
01-16-2012, 10:54 AM
As do we all! :applaudit:

In the end what it all comes down to is this. With our defense aging we can't expect it to be the driving force of the team next season. So ask yourself this, is our offense Super Bowl caliber? Can our offense be the driving force behind our next Super Bowl run?

Let's take a little trip back into time with our Steelers time machine. Remember how the defense was primarily responsible for our first two Super Bowls? Then Joe Greene got older, Andy Russell retired, and the rules started to be slanted in favor of offense. Guess what happened, Terry Bradshaw and the offense stepped up their game and became one of the most prolific offenses in the league.

Now back to the future. that's what's going to have to happen again if this team is going to compete for Super Bowls in the next couple seasons. Guy's like Ben, Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, Mendenhall, Isaace Redman, Heath Miller etc... are going to have to step it up and start putting points on the board! The offense needs to get out of the sidecar and take the drivers seat this time around!

Yeah I know much of the problem stems from the offensive line. But you're kidding yourself if you think that's all there is to it. This team needs to refocus itself on offense. Ben and Arains need to commit themselves to ball security, red zone effeciency, and better time management.

Of course there's more to it - that's what I've been saying all along. It's not just Arians, it's not just Ben, it's not just the OL...everyone involved is responsible for the success or failure of the offense. You are absolutely correct that they all need to refocus and do what needs to be done to improve the offense, though I still believe improving the OL is the biggest key to success. I think we all agree that 20.3 PPG with all the weapons they have on offense is not acceptable and must improve if they want to get back to the show.

Texasteel
01-16-2012, 11:41 AM
As do we all! :applaudit:

In the end what it all comes down to is this. With our defense aging we can't expect it to be the driving force of the team next season. So ask yourself this, is our offense Super Bowl caliber? Can our offense be the driving force behind our next Super Bowl run?

Let's take a little trip back into time with our Steelers time machine. Remember how the defense was primarily responsible for our first two Super Bowls? Then Joe Greene got older, Andy Russell retired, and the rules started to be slanted in favor of offense. Guess what happened, Terry Bradshaw and the offense stepped up their game and became one of the most prolific offenses in the league.

Now back to the future. that's what's going to have to happen again if this team is going to compete for Super Bowls in the next couple seasons. Guy's like Ben, Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, Mendenhall, Isaace Redman, Heath Miller etc... are going to have to step it up and start putting points on the board! The offense needs to get out of the sidecar and take the drivers seat this time around!

Yeah I know much of the problem stems from the offensive line. But you're kidding yourself if you think that's all there is to it. This team needs to refocus itself on offense. Ben and Arains need to commit themselves to ball security, red zone effeciency, and better time management.

Not to mention Jon Kolb - LT, Sam Davis - LG, MIKE WEBSTER - C, Gerry Mullins - RG, Ray Pinney / Larry Brown - RT. Many here probably don't know these guy, but I know you do Zu.

I'm going to take a lesson from my 2 year old grandson and keep screaming till the FO gives me what I want.

BlastFurnace
01-16-2012, 11:43 AM
Not to mention Jon Kolb - LT, Sam Davis - LG, MIKE WEBSTER - C, Gerry Mullins - RG, Ray Pinney / Larry Brown - RT. Many here probably don't know these guy, but I know you do Zu.

I'm going to take a lesson from my 2 year old grandson and keep screaming till the FO gives me what I want.

No love for Tunch & Wolf :>)

suitanim
01-16-2012, 11:46 AM
Of course there's more to it - that's what I've been saying all along. It's not just Arians, it's not just Ben, it's not just the OL...everyone involved is responsible for the success or failure of the offense. You are absolutely correct that they all need to refocus and do what needs to be done to improve the offense, though I still believe improving the OL is the biggest key to success. I think we all agree that 20.3 PPG with all the weapons they have on offense is not acceptable and must improve if they want to get back to the show.

Personally, I'm not interested in being #1 in scoring. All those high scoring teams all seem kind of like pussies to me...I still like running the ball at the end of games, wearing the opponent down by attrition, and running the clock out. I think even a modest 2-3 points per game would be all that we needed (assuming that our defense stays healthy instead of the decimation via injury we saw this year and continues to shuffle in younger replacements as needed) to head back to, and win, the Super Bowl. I'm reasonably sure we could accomplish that with just an upgrade or two along the line. I do NOT want to start this whole process of putting in new offenses where everyone is confused and on different pages, where we have some personnel who were a better fit for the OLD offense, where even if we DO upgrade personnel along the line, we find out that they are switching to zone blocking or something and half the guys are square pegs for round holes, etc, etc...

Chidi29
01-16-2012, 12:01 PM
Personally, I'm not interested in being #1 in scoring. All those high scoring teams all seem kind of like pussies to me...I still like running the ball at the end of games, wearing the opponent down by attrition, and running the clock out. I think even a modest 2-3 points per game would be all that we needed (assuming that our defense stays healthy instead of the decimation via injury we saw this year and continues to shuffle in younger replacements as needed) to head back to, and win, the Super Bowl. I'm reasonably sure we could accomplish that with just an upgrade or two along the line. I do NOT want to start this whole process of putting in new offenses where everyone is confused and on different pages, where we have some personnel who were a better fit for the OLD offense, where even if we DO upgrade personnel along the line, we find out that they are switching to zone blocking or something and half the guys are square pegs for round holes, etc, etc...

What's interesting to note is that before Ben's injury, so looking at the first 12 games of the season, we were about 2 points above what we finished for on the season (22 points up until that point, and 20 for the season if you include the final four games).

suitanim
01-16-2012, 12:13 PM
I think an interesting case study about how a team can be only one or two key elements between mediocre and great is the 2008 Saints vs. the 2009 Super Bowl winning Saints. I also recall that Sean Peyton was HEAVILY criticized for passing too much the year they went 8-8, and I think he actually passed MORE the following year where they won it all.

X-Terminator
01-16-2012, 01:19 PM
Personally, I'm not interested in being #1 in scoring. All those high scoring teams all seem kind of like pussies to me...I still like running the ball at the end of games, wearing the opponent down by attrition, and running the clock out. I think even a modest 2-3 points per game would be all that we needed (assuming that our defense stays healthy instead of the decimation via injury we saw this year and continues to shuffle in younger replacements as needed) to head back to, and win, the Super Bowl. I'm reasonably sure we could accomplish that with just an upgrade or two along the line. I do NOT want to start this whole process of putting in new offenses where everyone is confused and on different pages, where we have some personnel who were a better fit for the OLD offense, where even if we DO upgrade personnel along the line, we find out that they are switching to zone blocking or something and half the guys are square pegs for round holes, etc, etc...

We don't have to be #1 in scoring, but I think with some changes all around, they can average an extra TD per game. I don't think too many people would complain about 26-27 PPG. That should be enough to win most games even if the D takes a step back. And to be able to run the ball when needed, they need to change their mindset, especially when they get to the red zone. They abandon the run way too early when they get there because they probably don't have much faith in the OL to get a push, and that is what is hurting them. If they are going to pass, they need to start using the TE and RB more often and not have Ben try to force it to a WR. It's interesting that they are money on 3rd and short...why not take that same mentality when they get to the red zone or have to run the ball to kill the clock? They also MUST use Issac Redman more often if and when Mendenhall returns. He's more than proven his value and should not be left to stand on the sideline getting 3-5 carries a game.

zulater
01-16-2012, 01:28 PM
We don't have to be #1 in scoring, but I think with some changes all around, they can average an extra TD per game. I don't think too many people would complain about 26-27 PPG. That should be enough to win most games even if the D takes a step back. And to be able to run the ball when needed, they need to change their mindset, especially when they get to the red zone. They abandon the run way too early when they get there because they probably don't have much faith in the OL to get a push, and that is what is hurting them. If they are going to pass, they need to start using the TE and RB more often and not have Ben try to force it to a WR. It's interesting that they are money on 3rd and short...why not take that same mentality when they get to the red zone or have to run the ball to kill the clock? They also MUST use Issac Redman more often if and when Mendenhall returns. He's more than proven his value and should not be left to stand on the sideline getting 3-5 carries a game.

I think I read or heard somewhere that Isaac Redman was 100% in converting 3rd and 1 or less this season. Which game was it, the season ending game against the Browns, or the Broncos game where Redman got the carry on 3rd and 1, was met at the line, yet somehow cork screwed his body a couple times and ended up with about 3 yards.

Anyway I thought he should have been used more in the red zone all season.

Getting back to Arians. One thing I noticed he did less of as the season went on was going with empty back sets on first down in the red zone. If time isn't an issue I hate when they do that. I don't mind passing on first down in the red zone. But geez, don't tip your hand! :doh: Put a back in the set, at least make the linebackers and safeties think you may run.

NCSteeler
01-16-2012, 01:48 PM
Wow...you add to a garbage argument by pouring more diversionary garbage on top of it.

Anyway, the Rooney's have a track record of success, and Goodell does not. Since the Steelers have had a Renaissance of late (what team has a better track record in this century?), and NOT a decline, and Goodell is clearly steering the NFL's ship straight into the iceberg, you're making an apples-to-oranges comparison. Why not just make the cycle complete and blame the inevitable decline in NFL viewership (unless Goodell is ousted soon) ALSO Arians fault? I mean, if you're going to blame things on him that he has nothing to do with, why stop at our defense and special teams? Why not, say, Climate change? The price of oil? Guantanamo Bay? Why, if ONLY the Rooney's would listen to you, the whole WORLD would be a better place to live.

Nonsense. If we extrapolate this stupid argument out, there are only two conclusions the scapegoaters can (illogically) arrive at: Either the Rooney's don't know what they are doing, and that's why they are keeping Arians and LeBeau, or, even more illogically, that the Rooney's are too cheap to pay for top-dollar replacements (which is EXACTLY why I resurrected that old retarded and lame argument).

Goodell does not have a track record and neither does Arians don't mix it up. The Owners have a record of picking and promoting good commissioners, but obviously you don't think so. I guess your just some internet guy who probably knows more about it then the 32 owners. Besides Rooney, who we never doubt, helped pick and was a big champion of this commissioner, but you know better. It is exactly the same argument given that we don't know how to run a team so we shouldn't say so ans so should be replaced or fired. To say we all think the Rooney's don't know what they are doing isn't right either, because I seriously doubt they micro manage the team to the point of telling Tomlin who his assistants will be. Tomlin is a young guy subject to make mistakes like anyone else, especially when he has his start 100 million dollar QB in his ear asking to keep Arians. I personally believe that team needs a change in offensive philosophy

The WH
01-16-2012, 03:21 PM
For every 1 old school football fan goodell loses because of his new rules...he gains 2 new ones that like fantasy football. Goodell is making the owners rich!

Texasteel
01-16-2012, 03:32 PM
No love for Tunch & Wolf :>)

God I would love to have Wolfley, and Tunch, and, Courson as well, but they were in the 80s. I was talking about the last 2 SBs in the 70s.

The WH
01-16-2012, 03:40 PM
If it is possible no offense intended, but sometimes it is like an echo chamber around here. This board tends to get fixated on an idea and then craves it in stone. I know I am guilty of it, perhaps more so than anyone else. But I'm not sure I buy that the defense is old and Arians can't call plays theories for the "collapse" of the team in 2011.

Look he frustrates the hell out of me and yes, we all seem to be able to "guess" the plays prior to the snap. How much of that is the play-calling and how much of it is that we all are slightly obsessive followers of the Steelers? If we watched other teams just as much, wouldn't their play-calling and tendencies seem similarly predictable? Looking at Pro Football reference, the 2011 Steelers offense ranked above the league average in (almost) every meaningful category besides points and turnovers. I bet the two are related. Most of those turnovers were on terrible decisions by the quarterback. The rest of the offenses problems I blame on the line. Both its lack of talent and the fact that it never/rarely was able to field the same 5 guys.

Look at the "positives" associated with Arians. He has helped develop a trio of young and dynamic receivers, none of whom anyone would have called polished coming out of college. He has, at the very least, not hindered Ben's development. In addition he has devised an offensive scheme that is typically able to mask the lack of talent along the line. Of course when Arians fails, he fails big. We all remember the Cleveland "wind" game.

I'm simply saying that if you step back and look at it, Arians is above average as a coordinator. Cam Cameron was supposed to be an offensive genius, how is that working out for the Ravens? Haley was also tabbed as an offensive guru. So was Martz. Andy Reid is also regarded as an offensive minded guy, yet his offenses are horrifically unbalanced and tend towards predictability. If you look at any offense in the league closely, they all have their problems and warts. The Steelers offense is about 2 above average lineman away from not being an issue.

As for the old defense, it really isn't that true. Remove Smith, Hoke, Farrior, and Hampton and there is a fair amount of youth either starting or in the immediate pipeline. Woodley, Heyward, Hood, Allen, Brown, Timmons, Sylvester, Worilds, and Carter all qualify as young. All will either be starters or sub-package contributors next season. So the age comes from Polamalu, Taylor, Carter, Hampton, Farrior, Smith, Kiesel, Harrison, and Hoke. Hoke and Smith are done. Taylor, Carter, Polamalu, and Kiesel all played at a high level this year and showed evidence to have at least 1-2 more peak years left. Farrior, Hampton, and Harrison did not play up to par. I feel that Hampton got better over the course of the season and think that with a full off-season to keep his fat lazy ass in shape, he can play at least one more season as a 2 down run stuffer. Obviously his career is winding down and his replacement needs to be identified and groomed. Farrior is done. He is only average at this point and has become a liability in coverage. So age was indeed a factor here, no surprise. I feel that Harrison just never got fully healthy and recovered his strength from the off-season. I honestly feel that with Woodley as a running mate, full health/strength, Harrison has two more years of double digit sacks left. So on the defense is old and can't play anymore score, there are only 3 or 4 players where that is true. Not bad for an entire unit.

Just think that when we break-down the 2011 season, the reasons for the failures should be addressed logically. The reasons were injuries (a ridiculous amount) and turnovers. Combine that with the horrific personnel decisions made along the offensive line and it should come as no surprise that this was a one and done playoff team.

This team needs 2 interior lineman, a NT, an ILB and a DB who can get his hands on the ball. Do that and it won't matter who coaches what unit in 2012. Combine that with better injury luck and winning the turnover differential and the 2012 Steelers will be in a great position for a deep playoff run. Basically a reloading, not a rebuild is in order. -mojo

Chidi29
01-17-2012, 12:18 AM
Been at this for two days, because I couldn't get the numbers consistent, but I took a statistical approach to the red zone. I broke it down into the four quarters of the season (the idea started behind isolating the last four weeks due to Ben's injury and compare and then it took off from there). I looked at the number of passes and runs called, the results of each drive, the completion percentage, third down percentage, and then summed it up to scoring percentage, touchdown percentage, and total number of points.

1st Quarter (first four weeks, not game quarters):

Pass: 14
Rush: 19

TD: 5
FG: 3
Miss FG: 2
Fum: 0
INT: 2
Downs:1

COMP: 6 (60%)
INC: 4

3rd down:
Pass: 4/7 (57.1%)
Run: 1/2

Sacks: 1

Scoring percentage: 8/13 (61.5%)
TD percentage: 5/13 (38.5%)

RZ Points: 44

-----

2nd Quarter:

Pass: 25
Rush: 18

TD: 9
FG: 6
Miss FG: 0
Fum: 0
INT: 0
Downs:0

COMP: 14 (58.3%)
INC: 10

3rd down:
Pass: 4/10 (40%)
Run: 0/0

Sacks: 2

Scoring percentage: 15/15 (100%)
TD percentage: 9/15 (60%)

RZ Points: 81

----

3rd Quarter:

Pass: 23
Rush: 19

TD: 9
FG: 4
Miss FG: 0
Fum: 1
INT: 1
Downs:0

COMP: 7 (41.1%)
INC: 10

3rd down:
Pass: 3/6 (50%)
Run: 0/0

Sacks: 3

Scoring percentage: 13/15 (86.7%)
TD percentage: 9/15 (60%)

RZ Points: 75

------

Last Quarter:

Pass: 17
Rush: 11

TD: 5
FG: 3
Miss FG: 1
Fum: 1
INT: 1
Downs: 1

COMP: 6 (37.5%)
INC: 10

3rd down:
Pass: 1/4 (25%)
Run: 0/1

Sacks: 1

Scoring percentage: 8/12 (66.6%)
TD percentage: 5/12 (41.2%)

RZ Points: 44

------

Analysis to follow.

Chidi29
01-17-2012, 12:26 AM
Let's just look at red zone points throughout each quarter.

44,81,75,44.

Throughout the middle of the year, we were on fire in the red zone. At least, relatively speaking to us. That's 156 points scored in the red zone in eight weeks or 19.5 per game (just about one point shy of our seasonal total). In those eight weeks, we were 28/30 in terms of scoring in the red zone. It's no wonder we were scoring 25.5 per game during that stretch, which if continued for a whole season would have made us the 5th highest scoring offense in the league.

This in comparison to the other eight weeks where we were 16/25 in scoring and averaged just 15.1 points per game, good for 29th in the league over a full season.

The last four weeks seem easy to explain, Ben's injury hindering the offense. We scored just 5 touchdowns in 12 trips and in four instances, came away with zero points.

The slow start makes sense, too. The multiple turnovers (Ben had a few bad interceptions in the red zone Week 1 against the Ravens) combined with the lockout got the offense off to a bad beginning. But we settled in and hit our groove until Ben got hurt. Then the red zone offense regressed. Pretty simple and makes total sense.

It's my belief that with a full offseason and in the event Ben stays healthy, the red zone offense will be fine.

suitanim
01-17-2012, 05:29 AM
Nonsense.

(Carrying torch and pitchfork)
FIRE ARIANS!

GBMelBlount
01-17-2012, 06:48 AM
I think we all agree that 20.3 PPG with all the weapons they have on offense is not acceptable and must improve if they want to get back to the show.



Suitanim

I think an interesting case study about how a team can be only one or two key elements between mediocre and great is the 2008 Saints vs. the 2009 Super Bowl winning Saints.

Agreed.

Our offensive line is the only major thing between us and our next Super Bowl.

X-Terminator
01-17-2012, 07:22 AM
Well, between WH and Chidi's posts, we can pretty much put this one to bed. Not much more needs to be said, but I'm sure there will be.

suitanim
01-17-2012, 07:51 AM
It's quite obvious to me what we need to do: Throw Arians in the Monongahela River, and, if he floats, it clearly means that he's made of wood, therefore we need to burn him as a witch!

http://www.kimgreenblatt.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/villagerspo.jpg

zulater
01-17-2012, 10:19 AM
If it is possible no offense intended, but sometimes it is like an echo chamber around here. This board tends to get fixated on an idea and then craves it in stone. I know I am guilty of it, perhaps more so than anyone else. But I'm not sure I buy that the defense is old and Arians can't call plays theories for the "collapse" of the team in 2011.

Look he frustrates the hell out of me and yes, we all seem to be able to "guess" the plays prior to the snap. How much of that is the play-calling and how much of it is that we all are slightly obsessive followers of the Steelers? If we watched other teams just as much, wouldn't their play-calling and tendencies seem similarly predictable? Looking at Pro Football reference, the 2011 Steelers offense ranked above the league average in (almost) every meaningful category besides points and turnovers. I bet the two are related. Most of those turnovers were on terrible decisions by the quarterback. The rest of the offenses problems I blame on the line. Both its lack of talent and the fact that it never/rarely was able to field the same 5 guys.

Look at the "positives" associated with Arians. He has helped develop a trio of young and dynamic receivers, none of whom anyone would have called polished coming out of college. He has, at the very least, not hindered Ben's development. In addition he has devised an offensive scheme that is typically able to mask the lack of talent along the line. Of course when Arians fails, he fails big. We all remember the Cleveland "wind" game.

I'm simply saying that if you step back and look at it, Arians is above average as a coordinator. Cam Cameron was supposed to be an offensive genius, how is that working out for the Ravens? Haley was also tabbed as an offensive guru. So was Martz. Andy Reid is also regarded as an offensive minded guy, yet his offenses are horrifically unbalanced and tend towards predictability. If you look at any offense in the league closely, they all have their problems and warts. The Steelers offense is about 2 above average lineman away from not being an issue.

As for the old defense, it really isn't that true. Remove Smith, Hoke, Farrior, and Hampton and there is a fair amount of youth either starting or in the immediate pipeline. Woodley, Heyward, Hood, Allen, Brown, Timmons, Sylvester, Worilds, and Carter all qualify as young. All will either be starters or sub-package contributors next season. So the age comes from Polamalu, Taylor, Carter, Hampton, Farrior, Smith, Kiesel, Harrison, and Hoke. Hoke and Smith are done. Taylor, Carter, Polamalu, and Kiesel all played at a high level this year and showed evidence to have at least 1-2 more peak years left. Farrior, Hampton, and Harrison did not play up to par. I feel that Hampton got better over the course of the season and think that with a full off-season to keep his fat lazy ass in shape, he can play at least one more season as a 2 down run stuffer. Obviously his career is winding down and his replacement needs to be identified and groomed. Farrior is done. He is only average at this point and has become a liability in coverage. So age was indeed a factor here, no surprise. I feel that Harrison just never got fully healthy and recovered his strength from the off-season. I honestly feel that with Woodley as a running mate, full health/strength, Harrison has two more years of double digit sacks left. So on the defense is old and can't play anymore score, there are only 3 or 4 players where that is true. Not bad for an entire unit.

Just think that when we break-down the 2011 season, the reasons for the failures should be addressed logically. The reasons were injuries (a ridiculous amount) and turnovers. Combine that with the horrific personnel decisions made along the offensive line and it should come as no surprise that this was a one and done playoff team.

This team needs 2 interior lineman, a NT, an ILB and a DB who can get his hands on the ball. Do that and it won't matter who coaches what unit in 2012. Combine that with better injury luck and winning the turnover differential and the 2012 Steelers will be in a great position for a deep playoff run. Basically a reloading, not a rebuild is in order. -mojo


Sell out! :yield:




:wink02:

The WH
01-17-2012, 11:22 AM
:wink02:
:wink02:

SteelGhost
01-17-2012, 07:09 PM
If it is possible no offense intended, but sometimes it is like an echo chamber around here. This board tends to get fixated on an idea and then craves it in stone. I know I am guilty of it, perhaps more so than anyone else. But I'm not sure I buy that the defense is old and Arians can't call plays theories for the "collapse" of the team in 2011.

Look he frustrates the hell out of me and yes, we all seem to be able to "guess" the plays prior to the snap. How much of that is the play-calling and how much of it is that we all are slightly obsessive followers of the Steelers? If we watched other teams just as much, wouldn't their play-calling and tendencies seem similarly predictable? Looking at Pro Football reference, the 2011 Steelers offense ranked above the league average in (almost) every meaningful category besides points and turnovers. I bet the two are related. Most of those turnovers were on terrible decisions by the quarterback. The rest of the offenses problems I blame on the line. Both its lack of talent and the fact that it never/rarely was able to field the same 5 guys.

Look at the "positives" associated with Arians. He has helped develop a trio of young and dynamic receivers, none of whom anyone would have called polished coming out of college. He has, at the very least, not hindered Ben's development. In addition he has devised an offensive scheme that is typically able to mask the lack of talent along the line. Of course when Arians fails, he fails big. We all remember the Cleveland "wind" game.

I'm simply saying that if you step back and look at it, Arians is above average as a coordinator. Cam Cameron was supposed to be an offensive genius, how is that working out for the Ravens? Haley was also tabbed as an offensive guru. So was Martz. Andy Reid is also regarded as an offensive minded guy, yet his offenses are horrifically unbalanced and tend towards predictability. If you look at any offense in the league closely, they all have their problems and warts. The Steelers offense is about 2 above average lineman away from not being an issue.

As for the old defense, it really isn't that true. Remove Smith, Hoke, Farrior, and Hampton and there is a fair amount of youth either starting or in the immediate pipeline. Woodley, Heyward, Hood, Allen, Brown, Timmons, Sylvester, Worilds, and Carter all qualify as young. All will either be starters or sub-package contributors next season. So the age comes from Polamalu, Taylor, Carter, Hampton, Farrior, Smith, Kiesel, Harrison, and Hoke. Hoke and Smith are done. Taylor, Carter, Polamalu, and Kiesel all played at a high level this year and showed evidence to have at least 1-2 more peak years left. Farrior, Hampton, and Harrison did not play up to par. I feel that Hampton got better over the course of the season and think that with a full off-season to keep his fat lazy ass in shape, he can play at least one more season as a 2 down run stuffer. Obviously his career is winding down and his replacement needs to be identified and groomed. Farrior is done. He is only average at this point and has become a liability in coverage. So age was indeed a factor here, no surprise. I feel that Harrison just never got fully healthy and recovered his strength from the off-season. I honestly feel that with Woodley as a running mate, full health/strength, Harrison has two more years of double digit sacks left. So on the defense is old and can't play anymore score, there are only 3 or 4 players where that is true. Not bad for an entire unit.

Just think that when we break-down the 2011 season, the reasons for the failures should be addressed logically. The reasons were injuries (a ridiculous amount) and turnovers. Combine that with the horrific personnel decisions made along the offensive line and it should come as no surprise that this was a one and done playoff team.

This team needs 2 interior lineman, a NT, an ILB and a DB who can get his hands on the ball. Do that and it won't matter who coaches what unit in 2012. Combine that with better injury luck and winning the turnover differential and the 2012 Steelers will be in a great position for a deep playoff run. Basically a reloading, not a rebuild is in order. -mojo

Thanks for taking time to write this post WH, I agree :thumbsup:

vader29
01-18-2012, 07:53 PM
Now speculation that Arians may retire:

The Steelers coaching staff could undergo its first major change in the Mike Tomlin era because offensive coordinator Bruce Arians might not return in 2012, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has learned.

Read more: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/12018/1204433-100.stm#ixzz1jrhc8gXN

86WARD
01-18-2012, 07:56 PM
Don't tease me...

fansince'76
01-18-2012, 07:57 PM
Don't tease me...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

SteelGhost
01-18-2012, 07:58 PM
However, team president Art Rooney II indicated on Tuesday that some members of the coaching staff were considering retirement


Some members ? WOW, the older ones are LeBeau and Brucey. Interesting :scratchchin:

Chidi29
01-18-2012, 08:00 PM
Some members ? WOW, the older ones are LeBeau and Brucey. Interesting :scratchchin:

John Mitchell is probably one he's referring to. Everything I've heard from the players indicates LeBeau will come back.

EDIT: Just to add onto that, Mitchell said a few years ago he's retire when the group of Aaron Smith, Hampton, and Keisel were on their way out. Smith is done and Hampton's status is shaky. So it makes sense if he goes. Been coaching for a long time.

SteelGhost
01-18-2012, 08:16 PM
John Mitchell is probably one he's referring to. Everything I've heard from the players indicates LeBeau will come back.

EDIT: Just to add onto that, Mitchell said a few years ago he's retire when the group of Aaron Smith, Hampton, and Keisel were on their way out. Smith is done and Hampton's status is shaky. So it makes sense if he goes. Been coaching for a long time.

If that's the case, I hope they find a good replacement for him, we need to continue reloading the DL.

zulater
01-18-2012, 08:20 PM
If that's the case, I hope they find a good replacement for him, we need to continue reloading the DL.

Aaron Smith, rather coach Smith. Anyone?

Chidi29
01-18-2012, 08:20 PM
If that's the case, I hope they find a good replacement for him, we need to continue reloading the DL.

Definitely. Coach Mitchell has done a great job for us and will be very tough to replace. The players adore him.

SteelGhost
01-18-2012, 08:25 PM
Aaron Smith, rather coach Smith. Anyone?

Too soon to tell IMO. He's a great player and a great guy but I don't know if he's ready :noidea:

zulater
01-18-2012, 08:26 PM
Definitely. Coach Mitchell has done a great job for us and will be very tough to replace. The players adore him.

Damn it, don't you listen to me? I've already got Mitchell's replacement! Coach Aaron Smith, welcome to the Steelers! :applaudit:

:wink02:

Chidi29
01-18-2012, 08:27 PM
Damn it, don't you listen to me? I've already got Mitchell's replacement! Coach Aaron Smith, welcome to the Steelers! :applaudit:

:wink02:

I nominate Coach Zu!

suitanim
01-19-2012, 05:35 AM
The witch hunt crowd reads too much into things based on their hatred clouding their judgement. This year because a coach or two are retiring, they're sure it's Arians. Last year they were all 100% sure Arians was being fired, I think based on a random tweet and Rooney saying something like "We need to run the ball more effectively".

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 06:27 AM
Last year they were all 100% sure Arians was being fired, I think based on a random tweet and Rooney saying something like "We need to run the ball more effectively".

No, that was the year before last. Last year it was "Ben isn't going to be able to save his butt this time around because of the Milledgeville incident." Then when he was ultimately retained (again), it was "because of the lockout, the team just wanted to keep continuity." This year I'm sure it will be back to "Ben runs this team and Tomlin is just his lap dog" again. It truly is comical at this point. :chuckle:

suitanim
01-19-2012, 10:23 AM
I get confused...it's like Groundhog Day.

Mach1
01-19-2012, 10:46 AM
It appears Bruce Arians is out, one way or another, as Gerry Dulac has reported. There goes that lightning rod, now who's the next target?

Sadly, Kirby Wilson was in line to be the next offensive coordinator. He's fighting for his life, still in critical condition in the burn unit at Mercy.

The next offensive coordinator might have to come from outside. Randy Fichtner, the quarterbacks coach, would seem a possible choice. There also might be someone Mike Tomlin has had in mind in case this day came.

But will Tomlin truly be the one to hire the next coach? Remember, he said just last week that he wanted both of his coordinators back, and by all accounts it sounded as though Arians wanted to come back. But what if his contract wasn't renewed, which Gerry raised as one of the possibilities? That would not have been Tomlin's decision, but Art Rooney's.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/114466-ed-wilson-was-in-line-to-be-next-coordinator

Going back to last year when a guy starts "thinking" retirement it's time to go!

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 10:48 AM
Funny, I've always heard the Rooneys don't go over the head coach's head to fill coordinator positions...

tube517
01-19-2012, 10:49 AM
There goes that lightning rod, now who's the next target?

Fire Randy FichArians!

suitanim
01-19-2012, 11:11 AM
Well, depending on the veracity of this report (and God knows we've seen these things shot down in the past), the haters may have gotten their wish.

If this was NOT Arians idea, we will already have one immediate and obvious problem, and that will be a very upset starting QB. Hopefully that doesn't start a negative cascading effect...

X-Terminator
01-19-2012, 11:19 AM
I'll just wait for an official announcement from the team. But if Arians is out, I give the new coordinator about 5 minutes before the fans call for his head.

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 11:20 AM
But if Arians is out, I give the new coordinator about 5 minutes before the fans call for his head.

Six games. Tops. Calling it now.

oneforthetoe
01-19-2012, 11:28 AM
Funny, I've always heard the Rooneys don't go over the head coach's head to fill coordinator positions...


That is my impression as well.

Of course, as I am sure you know, they so did back in the late 80's when they forced Noll to get rid of some assistants, including Tony Dungy. Still, that was after some 6-10 seasons, I believe. I can't see Rooneys in any kind of panic mode here. We will find out soon enough I guess.

The only thing I don't get is that Steelers' coaches and management almost never talk out of turn. If the Rooneys wanted to get rid of Arians, I would think Tomlin would have already had that inkling. Unless, Tomlin was just trying to be loyal.

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 11:29 AM
Six games. Tops. Calling it now.

Depends, will all the routes on 3rd and short be 18 yards down field?

Will a 2nd and 15 play call be the Bubble Screen?

Will we run a Shotgun 5 wide formation on every single 3rd and short? If so, yep...Give me his head.

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 11:29 AM
Depends, will all the routes on 3rd and short be 18 yards down field?

Will a 2nd and 15 play call be the Bubble Screen?

Will we run a Shotgun 5 wide formation on every single 3rd and short? If so, yep...Give me his head.

Won't matter if we don't magically start scoring 70 points a game...

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 11:29 AM
I'm still not sure why the media is making it seem like Arians is definitely gone. Sure, I could see him retire but every single thing the team has said has made it appear like he'll stay. If the team wanted to keep it close to the vest, a simple "We're evaluating these things, we'll see"

And yet all the articles now are talking like Arians is gone.

Didn't we fall into this trap when Ken Laird said Arians was fired?

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 11:30 AM
Well, depending on the veracity of this report (and God knows we've seen these things shot down in the past), the haters may have gotten their wish.

If this was NOT Arians idea, we will already have one immediate and obvious problem, and that will be a very upset starting QB. Hopefully that doesn't start a negative cascading effect...

Good cause that QB needs to be upset so he gets his arse back into the film room and remembers it isn't all about him...Yep, I still think he's more focussed on his own personal stats then he is winning championships. He's been carrying that chip since Santonio Holmes was named MVP of the Super Bowl.

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 11:30 AM
Depends, will all the routes on 3rd and short be 18 yards down field?

Will a 2nd and 15 play call be the Bubble Screen?

Will we run a Shotgun 5 wide formation on every single 3rd and short? If so, yep...Give me his head.

The bubble screens averaged 6 yards per play. If you don't like that, you won't like anything a new OC will do.

oneforthetoe
01-19-2012, 11:34 AM
Six games. Tops. Calling it now.

Nah .... first red-zone field goal, when we should have run-passed instead of passed-ran.

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 11:34 AM
Won't matter if we don't magically start scoring 70 points a game...

How about better than ranked 21st? and better than 20.3 points per game? I mean, for all the "Talent" we have on Offense, 20.3 points per game for 17 games SUCKS

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 11:34 AM
The bubble screens averaged 6 yards per play. If you don't like that, you won't like anything a new OC will do.

good thing its not called a fumble though when it really is a fumble, that might hurt your stats.

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 11:39 AM
Nah .... first red-zone field goal, when we should have run-passed instead of passed-ran.

Trying to give the Nation the benefit of the doubt here. But yeah, probably. :chuckle:

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 11:42 AM
good thing its not called a fumble though when it really is a fumble, that might hurt your stats.

Yes, let's take one play (that isn't even Arians fault, as if he made the throw) and use it to paint the entire situation.

You're smarter than that Dino. You hate Arians and you hate everything he does. It's blinding you.

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 11:44 AM
Actually, we shouldn't change anything...the Love Bruce folks are right...after all...getting TDs in the Redzone at a rate of 50% if fine...just fine.

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
Actually, we shouldn't change anything...the Love Bruce folks are right...after all...getting TDs in the Redzone at a rate of 50% if fine...just fine.

Don't love Arians. Simply asserting that the Nation is never satisfied. The 15 years of nonstop bitching about "Cowherball" which many seem to be clamoring for again was not a figment of my imagination. Even Bouchette referred to the OC position as a "lightning rod."

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 11:47 AM
Actually, we shouldn't change anything...the Love Bruce folks are right...after all...getting TDs in the Redzone at a rate of 50% if fine...just fine.

And now realizing you're wrong, you're changing the argument.

For a guy who loves statisitcal arguments, you've suddenly looked the other way.

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 11:50 AM
Don't love Arians. Simply asserting that the Nation is never satisfied. The 15 years of nonstop bitching about "Cowherball" which many seem to be clamoring for again was not a figment of my imagination. Even Bouchette referred to the OC position as a "lightning rod."

It is a Lightning Rod, plenty of venom got spewed at Ron Erhardt and Chan Gailey and on down the line...its part of the job. Suck it up and score more points or get off the field and go wash cars.

Bottom line. I'm a fan, and I'm allowed to rip a guy getting paid millions of bucks that is being paid to be the 21st ranked offense and calls a game that gets us TDs in the Redzone about 50% of the time and has an Offense that has our FG kicker as its Top Scorer.

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 11:53 AM
It is a Lightning Rod, plenty of venom got spewed at Ron Erhardt and Chan Gailey and on down the line...its part of the job.

Thank you. That is the point I was trying to make.

tube517
01-19-2012, 11:54 AM
I'll just wait for an official announcement from the team. But if Arians is out, I give the new coordinator about 5 minutes before the fans call for his head.

I'm waiting for the official tweet from Rob Lowe

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 11:55 AM
I'm waiting for the official tweet from Rob Lowe

I'm waiting for the official tweet from this guy:

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Charlie-Sheen-Winning-Poster.jpg

:chuckle:

suitanim
01-19-2012, 11:56 AM
A) The complaints will start in the preseason.
B) Scratch that. The complaints will start THE DAY THE NEW HIRE IS ANNOUNCED. The person will either be too new, too old, too washed up, runs too much or passes too much, or, knowing the pitchforks and torches crowd, quite probably both at the same time.
C) It is very, very likely that even if we stay healthy, we will have a year of transition in which our stats (some, maybe most) get worse.
D) Unless we are #1 in scoring and undefeated winning games by an average margin of 17 points, the first clamoring to "Fire ____" will start by no later than game 4.
E) I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the old adage of "Be careful what you wish for" might very well end up ringing true for the Arians hater nation.

suitanim
01-19-2012, 11:57 AM
But it will be fun as Hell to watch the spin and diversion!

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 11:59 AM
A) The complaints will start in the preseason.
B) Scratch that. The complaints will start THE DAY THE NEW HIRE IS ANNOUNCED. The person will either be too new, too old, too washed up, runs too much or passes too much, or, knowing the pitchforks and torches crowd, quite probably both at the same time.
C) It is very, very likely that even if we stay healthy, we will have a year of transition in which our stats (some, maybe most) get worse.
D) Unless we are #1 in scoring and undefeated winning games by an average margin of 17 points, the first clamoring to "Fire ____" will start by no later than game 4.
E) I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the old adage of "Be careful what you wish for" might very well end up ringing true for the Arians hater nation.

Heck, might as well start the anti-Fitchner club just in case.

Ugh, a guy with the same style as Arians? A spread offense, where's the FULLBACK!

He's got too good of a relationship with Ben. It won't work.

LOUD NOISES!

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 12:03 PM
We can keep Arians, it'll just make it easier to spew my vile and hatred at him when he once again leads us to the 20 something ranked offense again next season...but then again...it'll be different next year right? Cause we'll have the off season...yeah...and they will work on the playbook even more and the late game or pre-half 2 minute drills even more...yeah, that's the ticket...it'll be even better...

And if they score 24-27 points a game, that would be nice...instead of ya know...20.3...but hey, why does that matter...Ben got his 4000+ Passing yards...yippie!

suitanim
01-19-2012, 12:10 PM
We can keep Arians, it'll just make it easier to spew my vile and hatred at him when he once again leads us to the 20 something ranked offense again next season...but then again...it'll be different next year right? Cause we'll have the off season...yeah...and they will work on the playbook even more and the late game or pre-half 2 minute drills even more...yeah, that's the ticket...it'll be even better...

And if they score 24-27 points a game, that would be nice...instead of ya know...20.3...but hey, why does that matter...Ben got his 4000+ Passing yards...yippie!

I've never stated any of this, so I hope this isn't directed at me....

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 12:11 PM
I've never stated any of this, so I hope this isn't directed at me....

Nobody has, to my recollection...

steeldevil
01-19-2012, 12:13 PM
LOUD NOISES!

:heh:

Steeldude
01-19-2012, 12:13 PM
A) The complaints will start in the preseason.
B) Scratch that. The complaints will start THE DAY THE NEW HIRE IS ANNOUNCED. The person will either be too new, too old, too washed up, runs too much or passes too much, or, knowing the pitchforks and torches crowd, quite probably both at the same time.
C) It is very, very likely that even if we stay healthy, we will have a year of transition in which our stats (some, maybe most) get worse.
D) Unless we are #1 in scoring and undefeated winning games by an average margin of 17 points, the first clamoring to "Fire ____" will start by no later than game 4.
E) I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the old adage of "Be careful what you wish for" might very well end up ringing true for the Arians hater nation.

actually, if he turns out to do a poor job we will have the flower-toting hippies making absurd excuses for him. the steelers could have the 32nd ranked offense, but the birkenstock-wearing hippies would still scramble for excuses

Steeldude
01-19-2012, 12:15 PM
We can keep Arians, it'll just make it easier to spew my vile and hatred at him when he once again leads us to the 20 something ranked offense again next season...but then again...it'll be different next year right? Cause we'll have the off season...yeah...and they will work on the playbook even more and the late game or pre-half 2 minute drills even more...yeah, that's the ticket...it'll be even better...

And if they score 24-27 points a game, that would be nice...instead of ya know...20.3...but hey, why does that matter...Ben got his 4000+ Passing yards...yippie!

pretty much

suitanim
01-19-2012, 12:16 PM
I want to clarify. I'm thinking with a new OC next year we will only about as good as we have been this year (and of course I hope I'm wrong). I want to clarify that even if we stay healthy, and the defense creates more turnovers, and we average better starting field position, depending on how big the changes are, we will probably not see much improvement. The BEST case scenario would be for all those things to occur, and for the new OC to employ Arians system. In which case we roll back to what Chidi said, and we should expect to see the offense scoring the 3-4 points a game more reasonable people are hoping for.

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 12:16 PM
actually, if he turns out to do a poor job we will have the flower-toting hippies making absurd excuses for him. the steelers could have the 32nd ranked offense, but the birkenstock-wearing hippies would still scramble for excuses

Well you wont have to worry about that from me. I hate any coordinator that allows this "talented offense" to be ranked in the 20s for the season.

meaning their are 19 better offenses out there in the league...19 better teams on offense...even with our Top 4 QB, and our "awesome" fast Receivers, and our "Mediocre at Best" Running game, we can only manage to be the 20th...21st best Offense out of 32 teams...

That won't be acceptable I don't care if Terry Bradshaw himself is the OC, and I love Terry Bradshaw.

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 12:18 PM
I want to clarify. I'm thinking with a new OC next year we will only about as good as we have been this year (and of course I hope I'm wrong). I want to clarify that even if we stay healthy, and the defense creates more turnovers, and we average better starting field position, depending on how big the changes are, we will probably not see much improvement. The BEST case scenario would be for all those things to occur, and for the new OC to employ Arians system. In which case we roll back to what Chidi said, and we should expect to see the offense scoring the 3-4 points a game more reasonable people are hoping for.

I would like to us doing exactly that...scoring in between 24-27 points per game. That would be very nice. I'd like to see our YAC Yards improve as well by getting the ball into our Dynamic Receivers hands more quickly and I'd like to see the 40+ Sacks a season come down some. That would be nice as well. Sure, that requires OL, which they have been addressing in the draft with guys like Pouncy and Gilbert and hopefully, there is someone at LT or LG in the draft this year at our 20something slot.

Oh, and more TDs in the Redzone.

suitanim
01-19-2012, 12:18 PM
It will be kind of fun, though, if the new guy fails, to say things like:

"I told you so", or "Miss Arians yet?", or "Remember the good old days when used to be able to move the ball down the field by employing the forward pass"

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 12:20 PM
It will be kind of fun, though, if the new guy fails, to say things like:

"I told you so", or "Miss Arians yet?", or "Remember the good old days when used to be able to move the ball down the field by employing the forward pass"

It won't be fun at all, it'll be more like "This guy sucks more than Arians did" and "EFFING C-CHRIST on a Cracker can't anyone call a freaking play that doesn't involve Ben getting killed!"

stuff like that.

Mach1
01-19-2012, 12:22 PM
It will be kind of fun, though, if the new guy fails, to say things like:

"I told you so", or "Miss Arians yet?", or "Remember the good old days when used to be able to move the ball down the field by employing the forward pass"

Or it could go something like this.
2004 when we went 15-1 with a new OC and followed up that year with a SB win in 2005.
It's not all doom and gloom. Just sayin.

Steeldude
01-19-2012, 12:26 PM
It will be kind of fun, though, if the new guy fails, to say things like:

"I told you so", or "Miss Arians yet?", or "Remember the good old days when used to be able to move the ball down the field by employing the forward pass"

that wouldn't be accurate. they wouldn't be missing arians. no one says bring back a past failure to replace this current failure. besides, if the new OC is doing a poor job all anyone needs to do is look at the excuse-rolodex so many used to blindly protect arians.

suitanim
01-19-2012, 12:32 PM
Or it could go something like this.
2004 when we went 15-1 with a new OC and followed up that year with a SB win in 2005.
It's not all doom and gloom. Just sayin.

I sincerely hope that success follows. But success is relative with the spoiled and petulant. There will be complaints no matter what the new guy does.

X-Terminator
01-19-2012, 12:35 PM
Thank you. That is the point I was trying to make.

Even if the Steelers scored 30 PPG, there will still be bitching and moaning from the fans, so your point is definitely valid. I understand fans of most other teams are unhappy with their OC, but Steelers fans are the worst when it comes to that. I don't think we'll ever have a high-profile OC here not because the Rooneys are cheap, but because no OC worth a damn will want to coach here and have to deal with the constant bellyaching.

suitanim
01-19-2012, 12:37 PM
Even if the Steelers scored 30 PPG, there will still be bitching and moaning from the fans, so your point is definitely valid. I understand fans of most other teams are unhappy with their OC, but Steelers fans are the worst when it comes to that. I don't think we'll ever have a high-profile OC here not because the Rooneys are cheap, but because no OC worth a damn will want to coach here and have to deal with the constant bellyaching.

My main point is that hiring a new OC isn't going to magically raise the IQ of the average football fan. The same sorry sad-sacks will be making the same sorry sad-sack arguments within a couple games. Oh well...

Mach1
01-19-2012, 12:38 PM
My main point is that hiring a new OC isn't going to magically raise the IQ of the average football fan. The same sorry sad-sacks will be making the same sorry sad-sack arguments within a couple games. Oh well...

And I'm sure we'll have the same sorry lame ass excuses too.

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 12:39 PM
And I'm sure we'll have the same sorry lame ass excuses too.

Probably. Yeah.

Steeldude
01-19-2012, 12:44 PM
Even if the Steelers scored 30 PPG, there will still be bitching and moaning from the fans, so your point is definitely valid. I understand fans of most other teams are unhappy with their OC, but Steelers fans are the worst when it comes to that. I don't think we'll ever have a high-profile OC here not because the Rooneys are cheap, but because no OC worth a damn will want to coach here and have to deal with the constant bellyaching.

also, if the steelers score only 3 point per game, there will still be people making excuses for him and screaming "hater".

i wouldn't want an OC here who can't take constructive criticism. steelers' fans expect a lot from their team, as they should. browns' fan can cheer after a 5-11 season because that's pretty good for them.

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 12:49 PM
I would like to us doing exactly that...scoring in between 24-27 points per game. That would be very nice. I'd like to see our YAC Yards improve as well by getting the ball into our Dynamic Receivers hands more quickly and I'd like to see the 40+ Sacks a season come down some. That would be nice as well. Sure, that requires OL, which they have been addressing in the draft with guys like Pouncy and Gilbert and hopefully, there is someone at LT or LG in the draft this year at our 20something slot.

Oh, and more TDs in the Redzone.

And as I poined out in my study of the red zone, there was an eight week stretch in which we were doing an excellent job in the red zone and as a whole, scoring about 25 points per game (good for 5th in the league). But because of turnovers (not on Arians), the lockout (struggled in the red zone beginning of the year) and Ben's injury (red zone offense suffered), the numbers dipped south. Arians certainly showed the progression and the results. Factors out of his control got in his way.

So yeah, there's your 24-27 points. You should be happy.

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 12:55 PM
And as I poined out in my study of the red zone, there was an eight week stretch in which we were doing an excellent job in the red zone and as a whole, scoring about 25 points per game (good for 5th in the league). But because of turnovers (not on Arians), the lockout (struggled in the red zone beginning of the year) and Ben's injury (red zone offense suffered), the numbers dipped south. Arians certainly showed the progression and the results. Factors out of his control got in his way.

So yeah, there's your 24-27 points. You should be happy.

Or..teams also adjusted to what he was doing within those 5 weeks and he did not adjust accordingly to change up what he was calling, to counter the Defense he was seeing or to adjust to the fact he did actually have a Hurt QB that was in the game...happy?

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 01:03 PM
Or..teams also adjusted to what he was doing within those 5 weeks and he did not adjust accordingly to change up what he was calling, to counter the Defense he was seeing or to adjust to the fact he did actually have a Hurt QB that was in the game...happy?

It was an eight week stretch, not five. Time for defenses to adjust, they didn't, and we kept on chugging. And then Ben gets hurt and suddenly the red zone offense goes off track. Which is more likely. That defenses suddenly adjusted and Arians became inept or Ben's injury had an effect (not to mention turnovers reared their ugly head again)?

You can try to convince yourself otherwise Dino, but you're a stat guy. You just said it the other day. The numbers make sense; in this case, they tell the truth.

And how do you adjust to a hurt QB when your offense revolves around your QB?

suitanim
01-19-2012, 01:11 PM
And I'm sure we'll have the same sorry lame ass excuses too.

Like injuries, dropped passes, missed blocks, missed assignments, poor general execution, poor starting field position, lack of defensive turnovers, and other various facts and data? I hope not, because if all those same factors are in play next year, I don't care if we dig up Vince Lombardi, Bill Walsh, and nab Buddy Ryan circa 1985, we won't be a shred better than we were last year, and may very well end up a lot worse.

It's a staple of a spoiled fan base to pin the blame on a scapegoat, and Arians was the pincushion for a few years. The next guy will fare no better...

zulater
01-19-2012, 02:30 PM
Even if the Steelers scored 30 PPG, there will still be bitching and moaning from the fans, so your point is definitely valid. I understand fans of most other teams are unhappy with their OC, but Steelers fans are the worst when it comes to that. I don't think we'll ever have a high-profile OC here not because the Rooneys are cheap, but because no OC worth a damn will want to coach here and have to deal with the constant bellyaching.

Are you kidding me? :lol: Check New York, both teams, Baltimore, Philly, Washington, Chicago... etc... I could go on and on. If your team has expectations and you under- perform, it's no fun coaching anywhere. The reason the Steelers OC would be attractive and on the radar of any future offensive genius worth his whistle if and when the job comes open is because the Steelers have top tier offensive talent. The kind that can springboard a young coach into a future head coaching position in a hurry if he has a good plan. Don't believe it? Just ask Chan Gailey, Mike Mularkey, and Ken Whisenhunt who all parlayed the Steelers OC job into a head coaching position.

Really, as if a good young coach who believed in himself and his system wouldn't want to cocah an elite qb, elite young wide receivers, and promising running backs? Yeah right. We're just such bad fans they wont have anything to do with it. :coffee:

X-Terminator
01-19-2012, 02:52 PM
also, if the steelers score only 3 point per game, there will still be people making excuses for him and screaming "hater".

i wouldn't want an OC here who can't take constructive criticism. steelers' fans expect a lot from their team, as they should. browns' fan can cheer after a 5-11 season because that's pretty good for them.

Yeah, I don't think anyone would defend a team scoring 3 points per game. Nobody has defended them scoring 20 points per game either.

You still do not understand the difference between "defending" and "realizing there's more to the offense than just blaming Arians for everything."

Constructive criticism? HA! Much of The Nation doesn't know the meaning the of the phrase.

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 02:55 PM
i wouldn't want an OC here who can't take constructive criticism.

Constructive criticism, or constant unending negativity about, well, pretty much everything? There is a difference...

Dino 6 Rings
01-19-2012, 03:36 PM
Constructive criticism, or constant unending negativity about, well, pretty much everything? There is a difference...

That is BS, our fans aren't all that bad. We are pretty good fans and pretty loyal, sure we get pissed off at a road loss to the miserable Chiefs in 09 or a bad home loss to the Jaguars in the playoffs, or AFC Title game Losses...but we aren't pitch fork burn the Jersey types

If anything, the fact our fan base is pretty much "football smart" is what makes it a tough job. Sure, you can sell Cincy Fans on the same loser head coach for 10 years with 3 first round play off losses and tell them the sandwich is good, but you try that in the Burgh and well, we know better. Especially when you look around and see Eli freaking Manning in the Title Game again and see Tom Brady throwing the ball to Tight Ends and see the 49ers Defense as the best in the league.

We expect to be a competitive team, and being in the playoffs, is a good thing. Losing our first game because we had to kick FGs instead of getting TDs on our first 2 possession and because our Defense had a complete Melt Down really sucked.

Now, we debate what we think about the OC, and we can even go with the DC since his name is mentioned in the post. I have said multiple times I believe we are slowly evolving into what Tomlin wants which is a 4/3 Tampa 2 style Defense. As soon as Troy is off the Roster, its pretty much written in stone we'll be getting away from our current defensive philosophy...and maybe that's a good thing. It seems like right now, the 4 man front pressure is working around the league especially since its become a "pass happy" League. Yet in the Playoffs, 3 of the 4 remaining teams are Running Playaction Pass, Play Great Defense type teams. And the Patriots defense are tops in Red Zone Scoring, if not 1 they are up there. You can put up a billion yards on them, but inside they 20 they get tough to score on.

Anyway...I don't like Bruce's offensive Philosophy, and no amount of "the bubble screen is effective when executed" talk is going to convince me than that play is any better than running the ball or a quick slant or a curl to Hines Ward or a pass to Miller 8 yards down field, its just not. And until I see differently, in my opinion, Ben is intentionally NOT checking down cause he's too busy looking for the big play and not for what the defense is giving him. And its costing us games.

As is our defense "prevent" crap that we run at the end of the 1st half and end of the game.

smokin3000gt
01-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Six games. Tops. Calling it now.

I'll take some of that action..

zulater
01-19-2012, 06:33 PM
Constructive criticism, or constant unending negativity about, well, pretty much everything? There is a difference...

You really think Arians gives a damn what some fans think? As long as he has the support of his players, Tomlin, Colbert, and possibly the Rooney's, what we think, post, or say has no bearing on anything.

And when Bruce leaves, if the Steelers decide to go outside the organization there will be no shortage of supremely qualified applicants. This is a plumb job. Franchise quarterback. Quality skill position players across the board. And even the line has potential to be much improved in the coming seasons. Willie Colon can be a quality right tackle if he escapes the injury bug. A perennial All Pro at Center. And Marcus Gilbert could be a the left tackle every team is looking for. Basically with a little luck in the health department they're a left guard away from being a top 5 offense.

Do you really think any coach worth their playbook is going to let a few over zealous fans keep them from this sort of opportunity? Prior to Arains the two previous Steeler offensive coordinaters parlayed the job into a Head coaching gig. You think that goes unnoticed or will be ignored because some of us were "unfair to Bruce?

SteelMayhem72
01-19-2012, 06:50 PM
Have heard some say Todd Hailey could be interested...just what Ive heard on the offensive coordinator front!

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 06:51 PM
Have heard some say Todd Hailey could be interested...just what Ive heard on the offensive coordinator front!

As Zu said, there won't be any shortage of interest in the job if it becomes available.

zulater
01-19-2012, 07:03 PM
As Zu said, there won't be any shortage of interest in the job if it becomes available.

As you say, that's a big if!

Honestly I think this is much ado about nothing again. The press has added 2+2 and got 22. I think Bruce is having a nice vacation with his family as Ben's guest's at the Pro Bowl in Hawaii. I sure he's having a great time. And when he gets back I hope he get busy with Ben on getting this offense where it needs to be.

As I said before I think we're a left guard away from being an elite offense next season.

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 07:06 PM
As you say, that's a big if!

Honestly I think this is much ado about nothing again. The press has added 2+2 and got 22. I think Bruce is having a nice vacation with his family as Ben's guest's at the Pro Bowl in Hawaii. I sure he's having a great time. And when he gets back I hope he get busy with Ben on getting this offense where it needs to be.

As I said before I think we're a left guard away from being an elite offense next season.

Agree with you there. Really when you think about it, the line isn't that bad when healthy. Gilbert will do fine at LT. Colon at RT. Pouncey your All-Pro at center. Foster has held down the fort at RG even if he is average or a tick above.

zulater
01-19-2012, 07:12 PM
Agree with you there. Really when you think about it, the line isn't that bad when healthy. Gilbert will do fine at LT. Colon at RT. Pouncey your All-Pro at center. Foster has held down the fort at RG even if he is average or a tick above.

In the last 20 years, outside of a couple seasons in the mid 90's with Will Wolford and maybe Kendall Simmons rookie season of 2002, when have the Steelers ever been any better than "average" at right guard? Foster has come a long way this season imo. He'll never be a star, but he's no longer a liability either.

Chidi29
01-19-2012, 07:15 PM
In the last 20 years, outside of a couple seasons in the mid 90's with Will Wolford and maybe Kendall Simmons rookie season of 2002, when have the Steelers ever been any better than "average" at right guard? Foster has come a long way this season imo. He'll never be a star, but he's no longer a liability either.

Preaching to the choir my friend. But hey, we won a Super Bowl with Darnell Stapleton at RG.

And make no mistake, I agree with you. I'm content with Foster at RG. Can't have all-stars everywhere.

fansince'76
01-19-2012, 07:37 PM
You really think Arians gives a damn what some fans think?

No, I don't. If Arians gave so much as a rat's ass what the fans thought, he'd have committed hari-kari at least 3 years ago. My post was more to point out that finding fault with EVERYTHING doesn't necessarily make one "objective," that's all.

ALLD
01-19-2012, 07:55 PM
Gilbert is no Jon Kolb.

zulater
01-19-2012, 08:29 PM
Gilbert is no Jon Kolb.

Not many are. I'll settle for a John Jackson or Wayne Gandy.