Red zone offense

[polamalubeast]

Why do you think the steelers are bad in the red zone?

It's so frustrating!

[mortgageman]

a non cerebral QB and no elite Tight End.

[Chidi29]

Not being able to clear out the field with our speed at WR is probably part of it. Becomes a sardine can in the red area.

For the run game, the line not being able to get a push, someone losing their blocks is the usual culprit.

[stillers4me]

It's been this way for awhile. I think we are just used to Bettis plowing through and now we are passing more in the red zone.

[7willBheaven]

a non cerebral QB and no elite Tight End.

Yeah thats it....*shakes head*

[pepsyman1]

ahem......When has a Bruce Arians offense EVER been good in the redzone? 'nuff said

[X-Terminator]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - when they start running the ball better in the red zone, it will improve dramatically. There are so many options that open up when you're able to do it. Because they don't/can't, they pass more often, which makes it more difficult to score TDs since there's little room.

[XxKnightxX]

Lack of a running game. Period end of Story. Once you have that Defense tightening up it opens up more areas to throw for TDs.

[steelerdude15]

Gotta start running more.

[NCSteeler]

Only tall receiver is Heath and when was the last time you seen him get a shot int he RZ?? Would be nice to see more of that , hell even Spath helped in the RZ

[Psycho Ward 86]

LOL you're just figuring this out today?

[Psycho Ward 86]

ahem......When has a Bruce Arians offense EVER been good in the redzone? 'nuff said

Oh oh oh but it's all about the players and execution so it cant be his fault at all :rolleyes:

[polamalubeast]

LOL you're just figuring this out today?

No

[GBMelBlount]

We have the 4th worse Red Zone Offense on the road in the entire NFL.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

All these "weapons" and not enough gas to get in the end zone?...

[polamalubeast]

The loss of Jerome Bettis still hurts the steelers.

[fansince'76]

We have the 4th worse Red Zone Offense on the road in the entire NFL.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

All these "weapons" and not enough gas to get in the end zone?...

And the high-powered Saints are also in the bottom 7...interesting. The Packers are also in the bottom half in that category, while the Jaguars and Panthers are the top two teams in that specific category. Ultimately, that really doesn't say much.

[GBMelBlount]

Lack of a running game. Period end of Story. Once you have that Defense tightening up it opens up more areas to throw for TDs.


Polamalubest

The loss of Jerome Bettis still hurts the steelers.



I think it has more to do with offensive line issues and poor play calling especially inside the 5 imo.

[BlastFurnace]

And the high-powered Saints are also in the bottom 7...interesting. The Packers are also in the bottom half in that category, while the Jaguars and Panthers are the top two teams in that specific category. Ultimately, that really doesn't say much.

They put up over 540 points this season. They collect their $200 and pass "GO" on their way through the Red Zone.

I bet if you made them have 5 Red Zone possessions, they score TD's on atleast 4 of them.

[X-Terminator]

They put up over 540 points this season. They collect their $200 and pass "GO" on their way through the Red Zone.

I bet if you made them have 5 Red Zone possessions, they score TD's on atleast 4 of them.

Actually, they'd score 3 of 5 times...their RZ TD percentage was 65% overall (3rd best in the league behind the Patriots and, surprisingly enough, Jets), heavily slanted due to their nearly 75% conversion rate at home.

[BlastFurnace]

If the Steelers had the Saints offense, they would destroy everyone including Baltimore.

[cold-hard-steel]

I didn't know we even had a Red Zone offense. I must have missed that.

[fansince'76]

If the Steelers had the Saints offense, they would destroy everyone including Baltimore.

Would the perfect climate-controlled environment and fast track of the Superdome come with the deal, or would it still be outside in the current slop pit called Heinz Field? Put the Saints offense in Heinz Field in January and see how well they do then. I have a feeling they'd fare about as well in the elements as the Manning-led Colts this past decade.

It would be poetic justice if they meet the Packers for the NFCCG in Lambeau and both those high-flying offenses were essentially ground to a halt by a blizzard. I'm sure Goodell would have a conniption over it.

[SteelerFanInStl]

It really comes down to the running game. We simply can't run the ball when the defense knows it's coming. IMO the blame for this lies on the poor OL play.

[fansince'76]

They put up over 540 points this season. They collect their $200 and pass "GO" on their way through the Red Zone.

I bet if you made them have 5 Red Zone possessions, they score TD's on atleast 4 of them.

Not on the road, which is what the point of my statement was. And I'm sure they'd find it a much tougher slog in Heinz in mid-January than in that climate-controlled dome they play in.

[86WARD]

Not so much the "red zone" as it is inside the 10...

[tube517]

Poor running game and lack of TOs/poor field position also are contributing to this.

[polamalubeast]

If the Steelers had the Saints offense, they would destroy everyone including Baltimore.

Unfortunately, a team can not have 20 million over the salary cap.

[BlastFurnace]

Unfortunately, a team can not have 20 million over the salary cap.

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the gameplan and execution.

The Steelers have the talent, but they don't have the gameplan and execution.

They literally look like a team that hasn't put in a gameplan on offense, doesn't care what the weaknesses are on the other teams defense, and just wants to chuck it down field 40 yards.

[BlastFurnace]

Would the perfect climate-controlled environment and fast track of the Superdome come with the deal, or would it still be outside in the current slop pit called Heinz Field? Put the Saints offense in Heinz Field in January and see how well they do then. I have a feeling they'd fare about as well in the elements as the Manning-led Colts this past decade.

It would be poetic justice if they meet the Packers for the NFCCG in Lambeau and both those high-flying offenses were essentially ground to a halt by a blizzard. I'm sure Goodell would have a conniption over it.

I still bet they would be better than the Steelers on offense even in those conditions. The Steelers have no rythm on offense at all. They barely look like they have any coordination from play to play.

[Chidi29]

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the gameplan and execution.

The Steelers have the talent, but they don't have the gameplan and execution.

They literally look like a team that hasn't put in a gameplan on offense, doesn't care what the weaknesses are on the other teams defense, and just wants to chuck it down field 40 yards.

When do we constantly throw the ball 40 yards?

[BlastFurnace]

When do we constantly throw the ball 40 yards?

Ok. That was an Exaggeration, but how about chucking it downfield and ignoring the check down receivers.

There is no way you can't see the joke of an offense that the Steelers run.

The offense only works between the 20's. People make fun of the Broncos offense, but they were talking on the radio today that they have scored as many touchdowns as the Steelers did this year.

[Chidi29]

Ok. That was an Exaggeration, but how about chucking it downfield and ignoring the check down receivers.

There is no way you can't see the joke of an offense that the Steelers run.

The offense only works between the 20's. People make fun of the Broncos offense, but they were talking on the radio today that they have scored as many touchdowns as the Steelers did this year.

That's on Ben, no? If Arians is implementing the checkdowns and Ben isn't hitting them, how is thst on Arians? He isn't throwing the ball and can't scream "checkdown!" to Ben.

Personally, this has been Ben's best season in terms of living to fight another day and getting the ball out quick. That is credit to Ben, Arians, and Fitchner.

[polamalubeast]

Ok. That was an Exaggeration, but how about chucking it downfield and ignoring the check down receivers.

There is no way you can't see the joke of an offense that the Steelers run.

The offense only works between the 20's. People make fun of the Broncos offense, but they were talking on the radio today that they have scored as many touchdowns as the Steelers did this year.


The red zone offense is a big problem.

But the Steelers scored 26.8 points per game in playoff since 2004, his hope to will continue!

The problems can be fixed and hope that Roethlisberger will be in better health...The offense is horrible since the injury of Roethlisberger.

[BlastFurnace]

That's on Ben, no? If Arians is implementing the checkdowns and Ben isn't hitting them, how is thst on Arians? He isn't throwing the ball and can't scream "checkdown!" to Ben.

Personally, this has been Ben's best season in terms of living to fight another day and getting the ball out quick. That is credit to Ben, Arians, and Fitchner.

Great. It works between the 20's. Whatever you're accrediting to Ben, Arians, and Fitchner certainly doesn't work in the Redzone. For some reason, the other offenses that score alot (IMO the Steelers have as much talent), don't have scoring problems.

I don't know if this is on Arians or Ben. What I do know is this is that for 3 of the past 4 years, the same problems on offense are going on.

[katmandu]

I think it has more to do with offensive line issues and poor play calling especially inside the 5 imo. BINGO !!!

[katmandu]

It really comes down to the running game. We simply can't run the ball when the defense knows it's coming. IMO the blame for this lies on the poor OL play.I say use Johnson more at FB and let John Clay play the roll of "THE BUS" !

[stillers4me]

The offense only works between the 20's. People make fun of the Broncos offense, but they were talking on the radio today that they have scored as many touchdowns as the Steelers did this year.

So, apparently, we have a much better defense.

[fansince'76]

I still bet they would be better than the Steelers on offense even in those conditions.

Doubt it.

[X-Terminator]

I still bet they would be better than the Steelers on offense even in those conditions. The Steelers have no rythm on offense at all. They barely look like they have any coordination from play to play.

I seriously doubt that. It's been proven many times in the past that dome teams struggle mightily when they have to play outdoors on the road in January. The Colts are a prime example of this, their SB win on a rainy night in Miami notwithstanding. The Saints absolutely would struggle if they played in the same conditions the Steelers did on Sunday.

As for the lack of rhythm on offense, it would be much better if they were able to run more effectively, which means the OL actually do their jobs and run block. They have shown their passing attack is as good as any team in the league. Their running game HAS to improve if they want to be more effective in the red zone and score more TDs. It's not all on the OC, like so many want to do, directly or subtly.

[steelerdude15]

Red zone offense will be very important in playoffs and the Steelers will need to improve on it.

[Steeldude]

As for the lack of rhythm on offense, it would be much better if they were able to run more effectively, which means the OL actually do their jobs and run block.

i agree the O-line has problems. i have been saying that for 10 years. how about using a FB more often instead of the single back sets?

[Steeldude]

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the gameplan and execution.

The Steelers have the talent, but they don't have the gameplan and execution.

They literally look like a team that hasn't put in a gameplan on offense, doesn't care what the weaknesses are on the other teams defense, and just wants to chuck it down field 40 yards.

i agree. IMO, the steelers often look like a team that just showed up to play a game at a moments notice. arians has admitted he doesn't game plan against a team's weaknesses.

[pepsyman1]

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the gameplan and execution.

The Steelers have the talent, but they don't have the gameplan and execution.

They literally look like a team that hasn't put in a gameplan on offense, doesn't care what the weaknesses are on the other teams defense, and just wants to chuck it down field 40 yards.

I will also agree. This team rarely looks well coordinated on offense. They usually look best during a two minute offense. I dont know exactly where the cause lies, with Ben's choices or Arian's game plan or play calling. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter anymore. Any coach is ultimately judged by results. Arians offense doesn't score, hasn't scored on the past and gives no indication that it will score in the future. Who cares if Ben likes him? We need an OC that actually gets results.

[NCSteeler]

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the gameplan and execution.

The Steelers have the talent, but they don't have the gameplan and execution.

They literally look like a team that hasn't put in a gameplan on offense, doesn't care what the weaknesses are on the other teams defense, and just wants to chuck it down field 40 yards.

I could not agree more. I'm not a Arians basher, but the guy rarely seems to gameplan and admitted as much when he said they never practiced against 4-3 defenses. BUT, it's hard to fault the planning when everyone knows the Oline is scrubs, if it continues to be ignored , this problem will only get worse. Hell it's so bad our known lousy scrubs got hurt and we had to put in guys who are backups to scrubs, seriously.

[Chidi29]

I could not agree more. I'm not a Arians basher, but the guy rarely seems to gameplan and admitted as much when he said they never practiced against 4-3 defenses.

Yes, that one comment means he doesn't gameplan over anything.

[fansince'76]

I seriously doubt that. It's been proven many times in the past that dome teams struggle mightily when they have to play outdoors on the road in January. The Colts are a prime example of this, their SB win on a rainy night in Miami notwithstanding.

Facing a Rex Grossman-led Bears team didn't hurt them in that game either.

[suitanim]

A) Long fields. Poor starting field position and lack of turnovers hurts us in the field position differential battle. Since defenses depend on attrition and making the offense repeatedly execute, the longer field requires the Steelers to SUSTAIN execution.
B) Lack of execution. Closely tied to A, since the Steelers find lots of ways to shoot themselves in the foot, execution is not a strong suit for us. Whether it's poor blocking, errant passes, a poorly run route, or even penalties, the lack of execution hurts more if your average yards to score (i.e. yards away from the EZ) is 85 instead of 65.
C) Inconsistent running game. You have GOT to be able to effectively run the ball inside the 20, especially inside the ten. Think how many times teams have smoked us on the play-action pass inside the 5, then hit a wide open WR or TE who snuck out into the EZ. That ONLY works because we fear and respect their run game. Ours isn't effective enough to work that same way because...
D) Poor blocking. Our Oline is serviceable, at best. With even an average Oline, most of what ails our offense would be rectified. They aren't great at either pass or run blocking.

Notice I did not blame Arians. The 4 things above are enough that ANY OC, Bill Walsh, Norv Turner, et al, would have trouble overcoming. It's intellectually lazy to scapegoat the OC when the above is true, and it shows a lack of knowledge of the nuances of the game.

[Chidi29]

Yes, that one comment means he doesn't gameplan over anything.

And we've been practicing so for the past two years. And we're still not a strong running team, no?

Nendenhall put up YPC over 3.5, 2.1, 2.8, and 3.8 against even frons this year. Yes, there were some good games too bt those were against bad run defenses (Rams for example).

[NCSteeler]

And we've been practicing so for the past two years. And we're still not a strong running team, no?

Nendenhall put up YPC over 3.5, 2.1, 2.8, and 3.8 against even frons this year. Yes, there were some good games too bt those were against bad run defenses (Rams for example).

Too many times we appear to not even try to take advantage of teams weaknesses , it not just me but when you watch a ton of sports TV do you here anyone put our offense or Arians(of any year) in the conversation with creativity, willingness to adapt to the game, in game changes .The answer is a simple no. I would like to see them at least look like they put together a superior game plan

[fansince'76]

Too many times we appear to not even try to take advantage of teams weaknesses , it not just me but when you watch a ton of sports TV do you here anyone put our offense or Arians(of any year) in the conversation with creativity, willingness to adapt to the game, in game changes .

Yes. As a matter of fact, Gruden was quite effusive with praise for his playcalling earlier this year.

[suitanim]

I don't know where the false meme started that Arians doesn't exploit the opponents weakness. If I say I saw Bigfoot, it doesn't mean he exists...

[GodfatherofSoul]

They need to make a commitment to running the ball. The more reps your linemen get the better they get at it. Lots of teams get pass-happy and abandon the run, then start stalling drives. I'm not saying 60-40 run-pass, but get away from only running when it's safe; go for those running plays on 2nd-and-8.

[fansince'76]

I don't know where the false meme started that Arians doesn't exploit the opponents weakness. If I say I saw Bigfoot, it doesn't mean he exists...

He made a passing comment the preseason before last about preparing for 4-3 defenses (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_694536.html)that the pitchfork-and-torch-wielding crowd picked up and has run with ever since which has also morphed into "he doesn't gameplan for other teams' weaknesses."

Of course, conveniently overlooked during the same preseason (hell, the same WEEK) was Sean Payton's eagerness (http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/08/13/sloppy-saints-need-a-little-rest-a-little-work/) about holding extra scrimmages against the Patriots before their preseason game against them since the Saints rarely faced 3-4 defenses (and presumably rarely, if ever, practiced against, since they run a 4-3):


Before Thursday night’s game against the Patriots, the Saints spent the previous two days in the New England area in practice sessions with Bill Belichick‘s well-coached squad. Saints coach Sean Peyton said he wanted to get lots of work against a 3-4 defense because his team will play at least five opponents this season that employ a 3-4 scheme.

Gee, you think that might be because it may be just a wee bit more effective to practice for a certain base defense against a team that actually employs that base defense with the personnel to effectively run it? Just maybe? http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/smilies/coffee.gif

[Chidi29]

Too many times we appear to not even try to take advantage of teams weaknesses , it not just me but when you watch a ton of sports TV do you here anyone put our offense or Arians(of any year) in the conversation with creativity, willingness to adapt to the game, in game changes .The answer is a simple no. I would like to see them at least look like they put together a superior game plan

Who cares who says what? It's about what they do, their actions.

All I see here are some vague phrases that have been said a hundred times ago yet very rarely are there specific examples to back it up.

[Steeldude]

arians also said,
"In years past, we wouldn't even practice it," Arians said. "We would just go play them. It is a real disadvantage to the offensive line." but of course that's the fault of the players according to arians' stormtroopers

the article goes on to say
Seven of the Steelers' worst rushing performances a year ago came against 4-3 teams. Their five best rushing days (202 against Miami, 177 against San Diego, 173 against Denver, 152 against Baltimore, 140 against Cleveland) came against the 3-4 hmmm...again it's the fault of those players for not setting up their own practice. who would of thought that practicing against your upcoming opponent's defensive set would be beneficial?


"If you don't practice against it, then you aren't going to get better," tackle Max Starks said. yep. football 101

i wish i could find the article where arians says he does not let a team's weaknesses change his game plan. we all know his game plan too. it's called "we would just go play them". :lol:

here is part of an article on the steelers deciding not to follow their original game plan against colts small, quick defense


Throughout practices last week, the Steelers worked on a power-based rushing attack. Yet in the first half Sunday against Indianapolis, many of the runs called were long-developing stretch and counter plays. The result was Mendenhall having 10 carries for 10 yards at halftime against the undersized but speedy Colts defense.

"We had some matchups that we liked, with them having (six defenders) in the box," said Mendenhall, who added he wasn't sure why the game plan changed.

"We've got to play to our guys' strengths. We've got some big guys who can move you out of the way. That's a small, slanting-style of defense, so you try to run outside on the edge against them? We played to their strength and our weakness. That's a hard thing to do." play to our guys strengths? no way. just call any play. if the plays fails blame it on execution aka the players.


when all is said and done, arians, other coaches, FO and the players share in the blame. this belief on here that arians is without blame is absurd.

[zulater]

Anyone know what our redzone numbers are over the past 4-5 years? Just curious if this a trend or aberration?

[BlastFurnace]

arians also said, but of course that's the fault of the players according to arians' stormtroopers

the article goes on to say hmmm...again it's the fault of those players for not setting up their own practice. who would of thought that practicing against your upcoming opponent's defensive set would be beneficial?

yep. football 101p

i wish i could find the article where arians says he does not let a team's weaknesses change his game plan. we all know his game plan too. it's called "we would just go play them". :lol:

here is part of an article on the steelers deciding not to follow their original game plan against colts small, quick defense

play to our guys strengths? no way. just call any play. if the plays fails blame it on execution aka the players.


when all is said and done, arians, other coaches, FO and the players share in the blame. this belief on here that arians is without blame is absurd.

Excellent post!

What it boils down to is that either we, as fans, completely overrate the Steelers offensive players...or the gameplans implemented simply are not effective.

[fansince'76]

this belief on here that arians is without blame is absurd.

It's also 100% incorrect. Nobody has said that. It's the staunch belief of the "Pitchfork and Torches" crowd that Arians is to blame for EVERYTHING, which is what is absurd. Ben throws a pick into heavy coverage? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Redman/Mendenhall loses a fumble? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Kemo commits a stupid penalty to kill a drive? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. It's NEVER the players' fault. Yet when something works, is Arians ever given so much as one iota of credit? Nope. When things work, it's because of the super duper awesomeness of our players and in spite of Arians the moron.

Another illustrative point is the fact that my point about Payton the offensive genius wanting extra practices against the Patriots in order to get more reps against an actual 3-4 defense went completely ignored. But then, it's not surprising either.

[suitanim]

There is no doubt that the Steelers FO has failed to secure the kind of starting offensive line necessary to guarantee success. Good playcalling and loads of talent at the skill positions help to cover some of this, but certainly it's not enough. Otherwise we'd score more points than we do...

But, again, there are other factors. Field position and lack of turnovers (which obviously contribute to poor field position) are two big ones.

[BlastFurnace]

It's also 100% incorrect. Nobody has said that. It's the staunch belief of the "Pitchfork and Torches" crowd that Arians is to blame for EVERYTHING, which is what is absurd. Ben throws a pick into heavy coverage? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Redman/Mendenhall loses a fumble? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Kemo commits a stupid penalty to kill a drive? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. It's NEVER the players' fault. Yet when something works, is Arians ever given so much as one iota of credit? Nope. When things work, it's because of the super duper awesomeness of our players and in spite of Arians the moron.

Not necessarily. As an example, when Brady throws an INT in the Redzone, it's a bad play...but he's not winning games 13-9 against Cleveland because he can't put the ball in the endzone. Brady has 39 touchdowns this year, so the occasional RZ INT can be overcome. It's not on their OC, because the system and execution are there. The Steelers simply cannot put up points after reaching the Redzone. It's the same with the other successful offenses in the league.

We don't have pitchforks. We do believe that there is too much talent on this offense to see it struggle as much as it does. But, like I said above, if it's not on Arians, we as fans have completely overrated the players on offense.

[fansince'76]

Not necessarily. As an example, when Brady throws an INT in the Redzone, it's a bad play...but he's not winning games 13-9 against Cleveland because he can't put the ball in the endzone. Brady has 39 touchdowns this year, so the occasional RZ INT can be overcome. It's not on their OC, because the system and execution are there. The Steelers simply cannot put up points after reaching the Redzone. It's the same with the other successful offenses in the league.

We don't have pitchforks. We do believe that there is too much talent on this offense to see it struggle as much as it does. But, like I said above, if it's not on Arians, we as fans have completely overrated the players on offense.

Don't think the subpar offensive line has anything to do with it? The fact that we cruise until we hit the redzone and can't blow anybody (and I mean anybody) off the ball once we get there has anything to do with it? It's all Arians' crappy playcalling? If it was all on the playcalling, we'd almost never see the redzone to begin with.

[BnG_Hevn]

Turnovers.

Solve the turn over issue and 80% of the Red Zone issues will go with them.

How many drives in the red zone ended with a turnover?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Don't think the subpar offensive line has anything to do with it? The fact that we cruise until we hit the redzone and can't blow anybody (and I mean anybody) off the ball once we get there has anything to do with it? It's all Arians' crappy playcalling? If it was all on the playcalling, we'd almost never see the redzone to begin with.

Are you saying that we might need a decent O line to establish a physical run game on short yardage?? Or to even make play action work??

Blasphemy, it sounds like......dare I say it......Cowher-ball.:faint:

[fansince'76]

Are you saying that we might need a decent O line to establish a physical run game on short yardage?? Or to even make play action work??

Blasphemy, it sounds like......dare I say it......Cowher-ball.:faint:

I know we don't get stoned on four consecutive plays at about the 1/2-yard line by the freaking Browns if we did have a decent OL. Regardless of what play is called. I do know that much. That was ultimately blamed by many on Arian's idiocy as well, if I recall.

Another thing that kills me is when people scream "that dumbass Arians, why don't he use Heath more in the passing game around the goal line?" Uh, because he needs to stay at home to block, thanks to our craptastic OL, that's why.

[suitanim]

It's not JUST the oline. It's also Ben. He's not been as accurate as of late. I can recall 5-6 passes inside the redzone this year where WR's were open and he just failed to get them the ball.

[zulater]

I know we don't get stoned on four consecutive plays at about the 1/2-yard line by the freaking Browns if we did have a decent OL. Regardless of what play is called. I do know that much. That was ultimately blamed by many on Arian's idiocy as well, if I recall.

Another thing that kills me is when people scream "that dumbass Arians, why don't he use Heath more in the passing game around the goal line?" Uh, because he needs to stay at home to block, thanks to our craptastic OL, that's why.

I'm not an Arians basher, but that particular series wasn't Bruce's best moment imo. As you said the Steelers don't have a good offensive line. Therefore taking your best playmakers off the field ( Brown and Wallace) and packing it in with a heavy formation made the Browns job much too easy. I'm ok with running, but get the Browns defense spread out, make them respect the possibility of an outside pass. And we did the exact same thing on a 3rd and 1 attempt this past game, which again failed. The 2001 Steelers could line up tight, tell you what the play call was, and still get the ball in the end zone. They had the horses up front to impose their will. This team doesn't, therefore we need to make the defense defend all possibilities. Too often we tip our hand, and it almost always fails when we do. That to me is the OC's fault.

But overall I still think Bruce has done a good job given the limitations this offensive line brings you.

[Dino 6 Rings]

It's not JUST the oline. It's also Ben. He's not been as accurate as of late. I can recall 5-6 passes inside the redzone this year where WR's were open and he just failed to get them the ball.

Also, sometimes Ben throws it to the endzone when he should check down and hit a guy in stride at the 5 that could take it into the endzone...and he checks out of running plays all the time.

[fansince'76]

I'm not an Arians basher, but that particular series wasn't Bruce's best moment imo. As you said the Steelers don't have a good offensive line. Therefore taking your best playmakers off the field ( Brown and Wallace) and packing it in with a heavy formation made the Browns job much too easy. I'm ok with running, but get the Browns defense spread out, make them respect the possibility of an outside pass. And we did the exact same thing on a 3rd and 1 attempt this past game, which again failed. The 2001 Steelers could line up tight, tell you what the play call was, and still get the ball in the end zone. They had the horses up front to impose their will. This team doesn't, therefore we need to make the defense defend all possibilities. Too often we tip our hand, and it almost always fails when we do. That to me is the OC's fault.

But overall I still think Bruce has done a good job given the limitations this offensive line brings you.

I think it bears noting that Ben couldn't move, which also limited his options during that sequence. That happened not long after the high ankle sprain, which occurred during the same game.

Bottom line, is Arians a great OC? Nope. Could the Steelers do better in the OC department? Absolutely. But he certainly doesn't deserve the amount of flak he gets either.

[zulater]

It's not JUST the oline. It's also Ben. He's not been as accurate as of late. I can recall 5-6 passes inside the redzone this year where WR's were open and he just failed to get them the ball.

Had a few drops too. Cotchery should have caught one in the end zone this past week, and I'm not so sure Antonio Brown couldn't have caught one in the first half in the corner of the end zone as well, but it looked to be a bit harder of a chance.

[BlastFurnace]

Don't think the subpar offensive line has anything to do with it? The fact that we cruise until we hit the redzone and can't blow anybody (and I mean anybody) off the ball once we get there has anything to do with it? It's all Arians' crappy playcalling? If it was all on the playcalling, we'd almost never see the redzone to begin with.

Somehow this subpar offensive line works between the 20's. They have two 1000 yard receivers and nearly a 1000 running back. They have a QB that threw for 4000 yards, all the while playing with this subpar line. But...they can't score. Other than Randy Moss, none of the New England receivers arrived as stars, but the system they run not only makes them into outstanding receivers, but they produce touchdowns and beat teams like Cleveland pretty easily.

We all can handle breakdowns by the offense, but the consistent continual struggles in the same scenerios, is very telling.

The quote by Mendenhall in Steelerdude's post says it all.

[zulater]

I think it bears noting that Ben couldn't move, which also limited his options during that sequence. That happened not long after the high ankle sprain, which occurred during the same game.

Bottom line, is Arians a great OC? Nope. Could the Steelers do better in the OC department? Absolutely. But he certainly doesn't deserve the amount of flak he gets either.

I'm not saying we had to use play action. Simply lining up Brown and Wallace outside makes the safeties have to think. You also might have a linebacker drop into coverage to take away the passing lane with them in there, which in turn slows him down on run support.

Like I said, 2001, yeah man, line 'em tight, we'll blow you off the ball 8 out of 10 times. Now, not so much.

[suitanim]

I also think Ben could have scrambled into the EZ on a couple occasions. I didn't want him trying that lately, but prior to his injury.

Anyway, the situation is like an onion, there are layers and layers to it, and you have to think critically and analyze the entire picture. My beef is with people who just reflexively knee-jerk and scapegoat Arians. It's just lazy, and sometimes downright stupid...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I know we don't get stoned on four consecutive plays at about the 1/2-yard line by the freaking Browns if we did have a decent OL. Regardless of what play is called. I do know that much. That was ultimately blamed by many on Arian's idiocy as well, if I recall.

Another thing that kills me is when people scream "that dumbass Arians, why don't he use Heath more in the passing game around the goal line?" Uh, because he needs to stay at home to block, thanks to our craptastic OL, that's why.

You are right IMO, that playcalling is not the culprit when in that situation, but rather personnel. Without a decent lead blocker in the backfield its just man on man in the trenches and you can get stoned.

Its why guys like Vontae Leach, James Casey, Jim Kleinsasser, Jon Kuhn, Lousaka Polite, etc. can earn their paycheck on the goal line. Since we dont have a FB, I am all for putting a backup OG in there and slamming the ball home. At least then you can use play action to a TE with the threat of a short yardage run game.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Somehow this subpar offensive line works between the 20's. They have two 1000 yard receivers and nearly a 1000 running back. They have a QB that threw for 4000 yards, all the while playing with this subpar line. But...they can't score. .

This is EXACTLY why the Run n' Shoot offense didnt last in the NFL.

Put up tons of yardage and points between the 20 yard lines, but without a decent run game they could not score in short yardage. Still need to be able to play physical football in run game and not just bend, but dont break pass blocking.

All along I have said that I believe Arians is a good OC and a creative playcaller, but this has always been the aspect of his offenses that have been weak. We need to score from outside the red zone or go 4 wide and try to pass the ball in from the 10 yard line.

[Steeldude]

Anyone know what our redzone numbers are over the past 4-5 years? Just curious if this a trend or aberration?

2007 ranked 7th at 59.32%
2008 ranked 14th at 59.93%
2009 ranked 22nd at 48.21%
2010 ranked 15th at 52.46%
2011 ranked 18th at 50.94%

[Steeldude]

It's also 100% incorrect. Nobody has said that. It's the staunch belief of the "Pitchfork and Torches" crowd that Arians is to blame for EVERYTHING, which is what is absurd. Ben throws a pick into heavy coverage? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Redman/Mendenhall loses a fumble? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Kemo commits a stupid penalty to kill a drive? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. It's NEVER the players' fault. Yet when something works, is Arians ever given so much as one iota of credit? Nope. When things work, it's because of the super duper awesomeness of our players and in spite of Arians the moron.

Another illustrative point is the fact that my point about Payton the offensive genius wanting extra practices against the Patriots in order to get more reps against an actual 3-4 defense went completely ignored. But then, it's not surprising either.

nobody has said everything is the fault of arians. actually i see it more as arians' krishnas trying to find someone to blame other than arians. when things work it's because of arians. when things fail it's execution that's always the recipient of blame. personally, i believe everyone from the owner/FO to the coaches to the players are to blame.

as we all know running on 3rd and 5 and failing is the fault of the players, not the OC. running wide(rather than up the middle) against a small, fast defense is the fault of the players, not the OC. throwing 44 times on a snowy/windy day is the QB's fault, not the OC.