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salamander
12-28-2011, 10:57 AM
Yes I know we still have one more regular season game to be played. Anyways...


I'd have to give my team MVP award to the entire defensive backfield (especially the CB's). They definitely stepped it up this year compared to last season. Credit goes to Coach Lake.

Honorable mention:
I'd have to say Antonio Brown. We expected big things from Mike Wallace and got them (for the most part) but Antonio definitely was a valuable asset this season.

steelreserve
12-28-2011, 11:00 AM
Hard to pick just one guy from this group. Wallace, Brown, Kiesel, Starks, and any one of our DBs are equally deserving.

polamalubeast
12-28-2011, 11:01 AM
Roethlisberger or Antonio Brown

salamander
12-28-2011, 11:07 AM
Hard to pick just one guy from this group. Wallace, Brown, Kiesel, Starks, and any one of our DBs are equally deserving.

I agree but that's a good problem to have!

BlastFurnace
12-28-2011, 12:03 PM
My top 5 candidates:

Ben
Brown
Wallace
Taylor
Starks

NJarhead
12-28-2011, 12:05 PM
Antonio Brown.

The Duke
12-28-2011, 12:18 PM
I'll go with Lake too

the offense is pretty much the same as last season. The pass D has improved greatly, and think it's mostly due to him

suitanim
12-28-2011, 12:18 PM
I'd have to say on the offense (and figuring in ST), Brown and defensively Ike.

Coaches, definitely Arians...

86WARD
12-28-2011, 12:19 PM
My top 5 candidates:

Ben
Brown
Wallace
Taylor
Starks

Tough list. I gotta go with Ben followed closely behind by Brown.

Carolina Steelers
12-28-2011, 12:21 PM
I'll say Ben also! but as everyone one else has stated Brown was a nice surprise and what impact he brought to the team.

melvind02
12-28-2011, 12:40 PM
I say A. Brown, Ben,M. Starks,R. Clark

BigNastyDefense
12-28-2011, 01:47 PM
I have to go with.....drum roll please.............Troy Polamalu.

He didn't have the interceptions this year, but his play has been superb and he's so disruptive that he's got to be accounted for more than anyone else on the defense (since it's legal to hold Harrison & Woodley). We might not beat the Colts without that strip by Polamalu.

st33lersguy
12-28-2011, 01:48 PM
Big Ben

GodfatherofSoul
12-28-2011, 02:53 PM
Harrison, just to stick it to Herr Goodell

Devilsdancefloor
12-28-2011, 03:01 PM
id say max before he came back a caution cone could slow down DE better than scott

Count Steeler
12-28-2011, 06:21 PM
Mendy. Offense performs way better when he is on. When is doing the two step, the offense struggles. He is a bigger key to the offense than most realize.

HometownGal
12-28-2011, 06:24 PM
Shared honors - Ben and Antonio with honorable mentions to Coaches Lake and Arians.

Psycho Ward 86
12-28-2011, 06:49 PM
Big Ben, but kind of by default. He is the single biggest impact in winning and losing for us this season. It's just one of those years where it's hard to give it to just one guy

Chidi29
12-28-2011, 06:52 PM
Sorry, can't even think about Starks and "MVP" in the same sentence. Aside from a good showing against Suggs, he's been well below average this year and has really started to struggle as the season wears on.

Any free agent OT would've provided the same semi-stabilizing force that Starks did over Scott. Just like Flozell did for us last year on the right side.

Psycho Ward 86
12-28-2011, 09:19 PM
Sorry, can't even think about Starks and "MVP" in the same sentence. Aside from a good showing against Suggs, he's been well below average this year and has really started to struggle as the season wears on.

Any free agent OT would've provided the same semi-stabilizing force that Starks did over Scott. Just like Flozell did for us last year on the right side.

speaking of the right side, what did you think of Marcus Gilbert's season at right tackle? Gil Brandt highlighted him as one of the bright prospects to look for in an article today.

Chidi29
12-28-2011, 09:41 PM
speaking of the right side, what did you think of Marcus Gilbert's season at right tackle? Gil Brandt highlighted him as one of the bright prospects to look for in an article today.

I'd still like for him to be a little nastier in the run game, based on his size he can definitely be a mauler, but he's done an excellent job in pass protection. Light on his feet, moves well laterally, and can mirror/recover. Was really impressed by his game against the 49ers. Was matched up against Aldon and Justin Smith and really handled himself well. Had a nice 2nd half against Sheard and Cleveland a few weeks ago.

Basically look at LLT's scouting report before the draft and that's Gilbert. Perry was spot on and Gilbert could definitely make the switch to LT if need be. He got some time there at Florida so he isn't foreign to the position.

zulater
12-28-2011, 10:50 PM
Sorry, can't even think about Starks and "MVP" in the same sentence. Aside from a good showing against Suggs, he's been well below average this year and has really started to struggle as the season wears on.

Any free agent OT would've provided the same semi-stabilizing force that Starks did over Scott. Just like Flozell did for us last year on the right side.

I think you're being overly harsh on Stark's. He's had a couple sub par games, and he's worn down late against some elite pass rushers, but his overall play has been above the mark in my opinion.

No he's not a legitimate team MVP candidate, but he's not the liability you're making him out to be either. I'm content to have him for our left tackle going into the playoffs.

By the way my MVP is Ben, with Polamalu a close second, and Antonio Brown a rallying third.

Chidi29
12-29-2011, 12:01 AM
I think you're being overly harsh on Stark's. He's had a couple sub par games, and he's worn down late against some elite pass rushers, but his overall play has been above the mark in my opinion.

No he's not a legitimate team MVP candidate, but he's not the liability you're making him out to be either. I'm content to have him for our left tackle going into the playoffs.

By the way my MVP is Ben, with Polamalu a close second, and Antonio Brown a rallying third.

Starks is constantly getting help from speed rushers to help mask his struggles. I don't know if it's pure incompetence or getting worn down after not playing this far into the season for two years (probably a mixture of both) but I'm not comfortable with him for the playoffs.

Texasteel
12-29-2011, 04:47 AM
Who would you least like to go into the playoff without? MVP of this team is and likely will be for some time. Ben R

Texasteel
12-29-2011, 04:54 AM
Starks is constantly getting help from speed rushers to help mask his struggles. I don't know if it's pure incompetence or getting worn down after not playing this far into the season for two years (probably a mixture of both) but I'm not comfortable with him for the playoffs.


I'm glad to have Max back, but I don't see him as a top flight LT either. I think he looked so good to most of us because of how bad we were at that position before we did bring him back. I am still hoping for another OT in this years draft. Either one that can hold down the left side or let us shift Gilbert to the left side.

NJarhead
12-29-2011, 07:56 AM
speaking of the right side, what did you think of Marcus Gilbert's season at right tackle? Gil Brandt highlighted him as one of the bright prospects to look for in an article today.

He did pretty good for a rookie IMO and I LOVE his attitude. My only concern at this point is that he isn't too fragile.

tube517
12-29-2011, 10:13 AM
Starks is constantly getting help from speed rushers to help mask his struggles. I don't know if it's pure incompetence or getting worn down after not playing this far into the season for two years (probably a mixture of both) but I'm not comfortable with him for the playoffs.

Starks is not a team MVP and he's not an elite LT. However, I'd rather have him going into the playoffs than J Scott at LT. You are right in that he's probably worn down after being released and coming back and not playing a full season last year. Hopefully, we get a bye and he gets some much needed rest.

SteelGhost
12-29-2011, 05:56 PM
Offensive player : Antonio Brown
Defensive player : Troy Polamalu
Special Teams : Jeremy Kapinos
Coach : Carnell Lake

Steeldude
12-29-2011, 06:25 PM
candidates are...

BR
harrison
polamalu
starks

steelreserve
12-29-2011, 06:27 PM
I'm glad to have Max back, but I don't see him as a top flight LT either. I think he looked so good to most of us because of how bad we were at that position before we did bring him back. I am still hoping for another OT in this years draft. Either one that can hold down the left side or let us shift Gilbert to the left side.

That's pretty much what it is with Starks. He's not an elite player by any means, but in terms of before-and-after difference compared to where we were at the start of the season, it's no contest. Scott was the offensive equivalent of the cornerback who gets burned deep several times a game. The kind of problem that keeps the entire unit from functioning and costs you games. Fixing that may have been worth 4 or 5 wins all by itself.

In that sense, I'd say Starks was more important to the team's success than anyone except Ben, though really just about any semi-competent LT would have done.

steelerdude15
12-29-2011, 06:47 PM
Too hard to give it to one person. My candidates would be Ben, Mikey, Antonio, and Ike.

Chidi29
12-29-2011, 08:55 PM
Starks is not a team MVP and he's not an elite LT. However, I'd rather have him going into the playoffs than J Scott at LT. You are right in that he's probably worn down after being released and coming back and not playing a full season last year. Hopefully, we get a bye and he gets some much needed rest.

Being better than awful doesn't make you good. It just makes you a tick above the bottom of the barrel.

We could have signed any OT and gotten similar results. That by definition, doesn't make you valuable.

zulater
12-31-2011, 07:14 AM
Being better than awful doesn't make you good. It just makes you a tick above the bottom of the barrel.

We could have signed any OT and gotten similar results. That by definition, doesn't make you valuable.

Really? And you know this how? Most teams give their left tackle help from running backs and tight ends in certain situations. so just because the Steelers might use Redman, Mendenhall or Johnson to chip here and there doesn't invalidate the overall job Max has done. Hell even in the San Francisco game, for the majority of that game I remember Ben standing flatfooted with plenty of time to find his targets. It just wasn't happening for other reasons.

You got to remember left tackles are often facing elite edge rushers who are getting paid a lot of money to make the qb's job uncomfortable. You're not going to pitch a shutout every game. In 60-70 offensive snaps a game if you lose 3-5 times against a dude getting paid 5 million+ you're not all of a sudden a worthless bum.

I rewatch the games too chidi. Max wins his matchup often enough to at least be considered average. Hell by your standards if James Harrison has any kind of positive impact against the Browns this week I guess that makes Joe Thomas a scrub.

Two teams out there Chidi, both have elite athletes. It's the Pro's not college, no Big East conference to beat up on.

Chidi29
01-02-2012, 06:50 AM
Really? And you know this how? Most teams give their left tackle help from running backs and tight ends in certain situations. so just because the Steelers might use Redman, Mendenhall or Johnson to chip here and there doesn't invalidate the overall job Max has done. Hell even in the San Francisco game, for the majority of that game I remember Ben standing flatfooted with plenty of time to find his targets. It just wasn't happening for other reasons.

You got to remember left tackles are often facing elite edge rushers who are getting paid a lot of money to make the qb's job uncomfortable. You're not going to pitch a shutout every game. In 60-70 offensive snaps a game if you lose 3-5 times against a dude getting paid 5 million+ you're not all of a sudden a worthless bum.

I rewatch the games too chidi. Max wins his matchup often enough to at least be considered average. Hell by your standards if James Harrison has any kind of positive impact against the Browns this week I guess that makes Joe Thomas a scrub.

Two teams out there Chidi, both have elite athletes. It's the Pro's not college, no Big East conference to beat up on.

Just saw this post.

Ok, I obviously don' "know" in the sense of how sure I am I live on Earth (100%) or how sure that a girl on Earth will ever talk to me (0%). It's still my opinion.

But when a guy is playing sub-par, finding a guy of the same level isn't exactly hard to do. We did it with Flozell last year (though I liked Flozell a little more overall) and we did it with Starks this year.

I realize it's a difficult job to play along the line, especially with Ben as your QB, but when I look at other players around the league or look across the line to Macus Gilbert, Starks doesn't come close to stacking up. We'll basically go around in circles, but to me, Starks has been abused the past few weeks and really only had one good game.

I'm not sure what I can do to convince you but I will say this. In my sack counter, Starks has given up six sacks in what, 3/4 of a season? Those six are the most allowed by any lineman, two more than any other lineman.

What does a tackle have to do to play poorly? What is the difference between Jonathan Scott and Max Starks? For comparison's sake, Scott only gave up four sacks in my counter last year.

zulater
01-02-2012, 07:08 AM
I'd wager Ben's taken more hits ( not sacks) over the season on account of Marcus Gilbert, than any other lineman. He's a rookie, to some degree it's acceptable, but your right tackle isn't usually going against the other teams best pass rusher, so I find it laughable when it's claimed that he's been vastly superior to Starks.



What does a tackle have to do to play poorly? What is the difference between Jonathan Scott and Max Starks? For comparison's sake, Scott only gave up four sacks in my counter last year.

How many pressures? How many holding penalties? It's not just about sacks chidi. When he got pulled from the starting lineup Scott was leading the league in holding penalties over the past two seasons! Those kill drives as bad as sacks do.

Steeldude
01-02-2012, 07:09 AM
for coaches i would say lake. it's definitely not arians, lebeau or tomlin.

Chidi29
01-02-2012, 07:38 AM
I'd wager Ben's taken more hits ( not sacks) over the season on account of Marcus Gilbert, than any other lineman. He's a rookie, to some degree it's acceptable, but your right tackle isn't usually going against the other teams best pass rusher, so I find it laughable when it's claimed that he's been vastly superior to Starks.




How many pressures? How many holding penalties? It's not just about sacks chidi. When he got pulled from the starting lineup Scott was leading the league in holding penalties over the past two seasons! Those kill drives as bad as sacks do.

I realize that right tackle is easier but you still face difficult matchups. Mathis, for example. Jonathan Scott faced Chris Long who came into the game with 13 sacks. Gilbert still had to face Aldon Smith from time to time.

I was using sacks because it was the only statistical evidence I had to try and prevent a conversation where we go around in circles.

Starks has allowed a ton of pressures, too. Sacks/pressures is a fairly (though not always admittedly, see Pouncey from last year) positive correlation.