Offensive changes needed next year.

[pepsyman1]

I know it's always discussed, both ways. I don't care what anyone says. I know the players have to execute, but how many games a season do we have to see a team that has the kind of talent, the weapons we do NOT FUCKING SCORE??? I don't care if Ben likes him. Arians needs to be replaced and our offense has to be reworked. I'm not an OC. I'm not gonna try to say I have the answers, but like ANY other job description: you're judged by your results and Arians offenses have ALWAYS struggled to score consistently. ONE year in the top ten of the league in scoring in 8 seasons as an OC in the league. What further results do you need to see that this guy isn't effective and doesn't make best use of his talent?

[polamalubeast]

This is not the time to talk about that.

When the season is over, we will be discuss the subject.

[Chidi29]

Four turnovers isn't exactly doing Arians any favors, no?

[katmandu]

#1.... NEED TO PROTECT BEN !!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlastFurnace]

I have said it many times before...the Arians/Ben marriage must end.

[fansince'76]

Four turnovers isn't exactly doing Arians any favors, no?

They're his fault too. Didn't you get the memo?

[Nadroj 20]

Not being an Arians apologist or anything but its also tougher to score when you are pinned inside you 10 every series.

[pepsyman1]

This is not the time to talk about that.

When the season is over, we will be discuss the subject.


The hell with that. It shoulda been taken care of two seasons ago. 6 ineffective seasons as an OC is enough of a record for me.

For me it's the same as evaluating Norv Turner as a head coach. He's gotten plenty of wins as the Chargers head coach, but the team has eroded since it was given to him on a silver platter and he's done shit in the playoffs and did nothing with the Skins. Arians has 2 Superbowl appearances and 1 win so many let it slide. He's ineffective and always has been.

[Chidi29]

They're his fault too. Didn't you get the memo?

Apparently Ben throwing a post with the corner having inside position was what Arians told Ben to do in the huddle.

And throw high over Heath.

[Edman]

Arians didn't throw interceptions and overthrow recievers. He had a pretty good gameplan going until Ben turned into Roethlisturnover.

This loss is a Tomlin loss. His failure to have the team ready for what was at stake and sticking it out with Botch and Dixon all this time. Maybe we wouldn't force our hand with Ben tonight if we have a viable backup that can step in and manage the game, and Ben gets the rest and practice he needs. This team and staff have NO confidence in Ben's backups.

Next year, we go after a legitimate backup QB and kick Botch and Dixon to the curb. Stop hanging on to them. Batch is old as dirt, and Dixon has had chances and he's proven to be nothing more than garbage. They need to go. Leftwich can go too if he can't stay healthy.

[Craic]

http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/1003/beating-a-dead-horse-horse-demotivational-poster-1267844749.png

[pepsyman1]

They're his fault too. Didn't you get the memo?

No doubt...no doubt at all that those are on Ben. But whose designing the routes these receivers are taking? All these center field camera shots are showing us with 4 and 5 receivers going out and no one going into the open areas between the hash marks. Why aren't we calling plays reflecting the fact that our QB is hurt? The first drive started with short, quick passes that were working well...where did they go the rest of the game? Ben made a really bad decision on the first interception, but did you see the routes that were run on that play? Why is the TE's pattern cutting so close underneath the wideout creating more congestion? Why isn't he cutting across opening up the space instead? We all already know that Arians is incredibly stubborn and is horrendous at adjusting during the game.

[Dino 6 Rings]

43 passes to 18 Runs

Loss almost every time. Seirously...come on now...do better...If Ben was unable to hand off, cause you know, its too hard to spin and hand off, then he shoulnd't have been in the fcking game.

That is on the HEAD COACH

Total Fail by the Entire Team tonight...But Hey...at least we aren't the Ravens, cause they still SUCK! HA!

[Chidi29]

No doubt...no doubt at all that those are on Ben. But whose designing the routes these receivers are taking? All these center field camera shots are showing us with 4 and 5 receivers going out and no one going into the open areas between the hash marks. Why aren't we calling plays reflecting the fact that our QB is hurt? The first drive started with short, quick passes that were working well...where did they go the rest of the game? Ben made a really bad decision on the first interception, but did you see the routes that were run on that play? Why is the TE's pattern cutting so close underneath the wideout creating more congestion? Why isn't he cutting across opening up the space instead? We all already know that Arians is incredibly stubborn and is horrendous at adjusting during the game.

He's probably supposed to but Johnson didn't fight hard enough to gain inside position. Ben should realize that it is too bunched and not make the throw.

And Heath was open on the second INT. Ball just sailed high.

Routes have been fine tonight. We moved the ball through the air. Just shot ourselves in the foot time and time again and that isn't on Arians.

[pepsyman1]

Oh...and my rant isn't simply because of this game. This is an ongoing problem made more obvious when we play a talented defensive team. Although we've gotten the best of the Ravens most of the time, we usually don't become effective on offense in those games until Ben goes no huddle or until the D creates a big opportunity. We have the weapons to be a really top offense and score like the Pats or the Packers do. I can't imagine any of you think that our OC is doing a good job.

[tube517]

http://beargoggleson.com/files/2011/07/EndIsNear1.jpg

[JayC]

i would like to figure out why we can't run the ball from behind center. i guess the guards need replaced or is that just as much on the tackles, i don't know. other than the line i do like our offense. but i'd like to draft a QB just as a backup cause ben is hurt each year although he plays through it.

[Chidi29]

Oh...and my rant isn't simply because of this game. This is an ongoing problem made more obvious when we play a talented defensive team. Although we've gotten the best of the Ravens most of the time, we usually don't become effective on offense in those games until Ben goes no huddle or until the D creates a big opportunity. We have the weapons to be a really top offense and score like the Pats or the Packers do. I can't imagine any of you think that our OC is doing a good job.

Yeah, I do. Arians has done a fine albeit not spectacular job.

[pepsyman1]

Routes have been fine tonight. We moved the ball through the air. Just shot ourselves in the foot time and time again and that isn't on Arians.

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you on that one Chidi. I've noticed the same thing multiple times this year whenever we get the center field cam and on games I've been to Heinz. We frequently struggle to get receivers open. Tonight was no different. When we go empty backfield we don't take strong enough advantage of the center of the field unless its Hines. Think about the receivers we have. How is it that they are frequently so well covered and other teams who don't have the talent we do seem to have guys VERY open in front of our corners? I don't think it's the talent, I think it's the schemes.

[pepsyman1]

Yeah, I do. Arians has done a fine albeit not spectacular job.

Chidi...what do you base that assessment on? I think our offense has done most of the little damage it's done the last few years based on Ben's talent and freelance abilities. I don't think it's been by efficient design because we haven't been efficient or consistently scoring at ANY point.

[Chidi29]

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you on that one Chidi. I've noticed the same thing multiple times this year whenever we get the center field cam and on games I've been to Heinz. We frequently struggle to get receivers open. Tonight was no different. When we go empty backfield we don't take strong enough advantage of the center of the field unless its Hines. Think about the receivers we have. How is it that they are frequently so well covered and other teams who don't have the talent we do seem to have guys VERY open in front of our corners? I don't think it's the talent, I think it's the schemes.

I think all these receivers are capable of and do run the entire route tree. A lot of routes are run based on defensive coverage which may be part of the issue that you're seeing. Routes aren't usually specicially called in the playcall. It is if "X" is doing "Y" run "Z".

[Chidi29]

Chidi...what do you base that assessment on? I think our offense has done most of the little damage it's done the last few years based on Ben's talent and freelance abilities. I don't think it's been by efficient design because we haven't been efficient or consistently scoring at ANY point.

I think Arians has done a great job taking a power running offense into a wide open passing threat. Ben has improved a ton and part of that is attributed to Arians (also credit to Fitchner and of course, Ben himself).

OCs get too much blame when things go bad and don't get credit for when things go well. That's the basic idea.

[pepsyman1]

BTW...The friggin Broncos have scored more points than us this year! If that doesn't tell you there is a problem I don't know what does.

[Chidi29]

BTW...The friggin Broncos have scored more points than us this year! If that doesn't tell you there is a problem I don't know what does.

That doesn't automatically put it on Arians. You can't look at blanket things like that. You have to look at the individual specifics. Why aren't we scoring? Is it poor play calling or poor execution?

To me, a lot of it is on execution. Mainly, the number of turnovers and beating yourself, putting your offense in really difficult situations.

[Craic]

43 passes to 18 Runs

Loss almost every time. Seirously...come on now...do better...If Ben was unable to hand off, cause you know, its too hard to spin and hand off, then he shoulnd't have been in the fcking game.

That is on the HEAD COACH

Total Fail by the Entire Team tonight...But Hey...at least we aren't the Ravens, cause they still SUCK! HA!

But I think you're forgetting a couple things Dino.

1. This wasn't just any team, it was the number one run team that was stuffing the run early in the game. The pass was then used to set up the run.
2. In light of 1. and the fact that Ben didn't have the mobility to be under center, the play calling changes quite a bit. So 18 runs for 84 yards and a 4.4 average, which is the best rushing average against San Francisco this year (minus Philly, but most of that was Vick scrambles. WHen discounted, we still beat them). I'd say that was actually a very good game plan, seeing as we were more effective on the run than any other team in the NFL against this team this year, not to mention only 4 other teams ran for more yards against them this year than we did tonight. No, I can't fault the way the run game was utilized.

So where does the fault lie? In using Ben? Not to many were saying "sit him" before the game. So can't put the fault there. If anything, it was Ben that through the INT's, and the receivers that dropped a couple balls in their hands, but mainly, it was Ben.

But he still gave them the best shot to win, so basically, IMO, the problem tonight wasn't coaching, or necessarily playing. It was that their 53 guys suited up had a better football game than our 53 guys suited up.

It happens.

[pepsyman1]

OCs get too much blame when things go bad and don't get credit for when things go well. That's the basic idea.

I'm still waiting for when things go well. I haven't seen it. I've seen inconsistency and I don't see the potent passing attack actually scoring. This is a team that gets yards between the 20's and that's about it.

[Chidi29]

I'm still waiting for when things go well. I haven't seen it. I've seen inconsistency and I don't see the potent passing attack actually scoring. This is a team that gets yards between the 20's and that's about it.

Have any specific examples?

[SteelerEmpire]

I'm just tellin you guys... the magic is not with this team this year. Ben's 5 SB goal is in dire straights. And I agree with pepsyman1....

[Carolina Steelers]

BTW...The friggin Broncos have scored more points than us this year! If that doesn't tell you there is a problem I don't know what does.

I agree cant believe Broncos, Bills, Dolphins, Bengals have more total points this yr were 11th in the AFC and 23rd in the NFL. I know defense wins championships but we need more points

[tihmtahm]

One thing for sure... We need a new FG kicker!

[Chidi29]

One thing for sure... We need a new FG kicker!

Suisham was fine. Two difficult kicks and he made the more difficult of the two. A 48 yarder isn't a chip shot.

[Craic]

BTW...The friggin Broncos have scored more points than us this year! If that doesn't tell you there is a problem I don't know what does.

And? They play the Raiders (twice), Bengals, Titans, Chargers (twice) Dolphins, Chiefs, and Jets. Not to mention Green Bay (who had a horrid pass defense at the time), and the Patriots, who has no pass defense.

Why do you expect the Broncos to not have any points? Please, don't give the "Tebow" mantra.

[Craic]

I'm just tellin you guys... the magic is not with this team this year. Ben's 5 SB goal is in dire straights. And I agree with pepsyman1....

I didn't think it was with them last year either (and it wasn't). The only way we can get deep into the playoffs, is if we become completely healthy, and our offense starts peaking again.

[Edman]

I'll say this though. Even though Arians was not entirely at fault tonight. You can't deny there are consistent problems since he was OC. The Steelers Offense has been mediocre in scoring for years and very rarely do they take over a game. Settling for barely competant but never dependable. When the Defense isn't having a good day, the Offense doesn't step up. Constantly relying on the Defense to save their ass and hold meager leads. The Defense wasn't there tonight and sure enough we were swamped. This team is still banking on the Defense playing LO football every single week.

A good coordinator makes Good QB's Great and Average QB's Good. A subpar coordinator does the opposite. While other offenses have been evolving with creativity, the Steelers O has been stuck in Neutral for years now. That cannot be denied.

As said, the Broncos have a better scoring Offense than the Steelers this year, and they have Teblow at QB.

[BigNastyDefense]

I have been an Arians apologist before and while I don't believe this game was on him....if we could bring someone in who's better, then I wouldn't mind getting rid of him.

I think he does a good job game planning....but his play calling during games is suspect. I think we should run the no huddle as our exclusive offense, letting Ben call most of the plays because normally when we are in the no huddle we are moving the ball well and scoring.

[pepsyman1]

That doesn't automatically put it on Arians. You can't look at blanket things like that. You have to look at the individual specifics. Why aren't we scoring? Is it poor play calling or poor execution?

To me, a lot of it is on execution. Mainly, the number of turnovers and beating yourself, putting your offense in really difficult situations.

We've had a number of years out of the last 5 where we were one of the top teams in terms of turnover ratio and we still haven't been a top scoring team. If we were looking at just this year, I would agree with you that you can't just make a blanket statement, but we are talking Arians entire career as an OC. 2007 was the ONLY time that Arians has had a top ten scoring offense. This isn't a fluke this year, this is an ongoing pattern. We aren't going to be in the top 20 this year which will be the 2nd time in the last 5 years that that's happened in his tenure and the 4th time out of his 8 seasons as an OC. And unlike Cleveland, we've had weapons. During that same time look at the Saints, Colts, Chargers, Pats, Eagles and Saints. They SCORE points. Maybe they have a bad year and slip to like 15th. We have the talent to do the same thing. The Friggin "dream team" is a complete pooch screw that has scored 60 points more than us and I live in Philly: their O-line is just as inconsistent as ours. There just isn't justification for this team to score so little.

[pepsyman1]

And? They play the Raiders (twice), Bengals, Titans, Chargers (twice) Dolphins, Chiefs, and Jets. Not to mention Green Bay (who had a horrid pass defense at the time), and the Patriots, who has no pass defense.

Why do you expect the Broncos to not have any points? Please, don't give the "Tebow" mantra.

And? Because the Broncos have a pretty inept offense overall. They've ranged between 20th and 28th all year in offense. We've been ranked as high as 9th, but we don't get the ball in the endzone consistently

[Steeldude]

I know it's always discussed, both ways. I don't care what anyone says. I know the players have to execute, but how many games a season do we have to see a team that has the kind of talent, the weapons we do NOT FUCKING SCORE??? I don't care if Ben likes him. Arians needs to be replaced and our offense has to be reworked. I'm not an OC. I'm not gonna try to say I have the answers, but like ANY other job description: you're judged by your results and Arians offenses have ALWAYS struggled to score consistently. ONE year in the top ten of the league in scoring in 8 seasons as an OC in the league. What further results do you need to see that this guy isn't effective and doesn't make best use of his talent?

it's the fault of the players only. the majority here says it can't be the game plan or OC. they have nothing to do with the game. it's 100% about execution no matter what is called.

[fansince'76]

it's the fault of the players only. the majority here says it can't be the game plan or OC. they have nothing to do with the game. it's 100% about execution no matter what is called.

Not at all. The 3 INTs and the lost fumble were drawn up that way.

[IUSteel]

Arians? I thought people would be blaming LeBeau's third down schemes and for letting the niners drive to our 40 every possession. I'm not saying let's replace LeBeau, but it's a lot more simple than looking at a box score and going "3 points?! FIRE ARIANS!" We shit the bed, now let's change the sheets and move on. Whole night was weird starting at 8:19.

[XxKnightxX]

One offensive change needed by next week is for Ben to stop imitating Brett Favre. Dude 3 points is better than a pick and 3 points for them . Trust in the defense.

[HometownGal]

Four turnovers isn't exactly doing Arians any favors, no?

Weren't you watching Chidi? BA caused those turnovers. :doh:

Turnovers are as a result of poor execution - certainly not play-calling.


2007 was the ONLY time that Arians has had a top ten scoring offense. This isn't a fluke this year, this is an ongoing pattern. We aren't going to be in the top 20 this year which will be the 2nd time in the last 5 years that that's happened in his tenure and the 4th time out of his 8 seasons as an OC.

In the grand scheme of things and when all is said and done - who gives a flying fandoozle about freakin' stats? :doh: We've lost 4 games this season - FOUR - have clinched a playoff spot and could still win the AFCN depending on a number of factors. Do you realize how many teams over the years have won the Super Bowl and haven't been in the Top 10 in either offense or defense? Stats schmats.

[Count Steeler]

Suisham was fine. Two difficult kicks and he made the more difficult of the two. A 48 yarder isn't a chip shot.

Do not let him kick from the left hash.

[suitanim]

I'm only saying this one more time, but blaming Arians only shows that YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND FOOTBALL!

It's intellectually lazy. Again, Chucky sat up in the booth all last night just complimenting Arians over and over on how well designed the offense of the Steelers is. It was a GREAT gameplan. It failed because:
A) 49ers defense is the best in the NFL...fuck the ratfilth, SF is better.
B) Lousy field position-defenses rely on teams making mistakes and crapping out with a long field ahead of them, and we did because...
C) Ben was inaccurate and...
D) The line didn't play very well

[Count Steeler]

My fear is that Ben is fading. Yeah, get your anger out of your system, but think about the big games this year and the SB last year. Ben has not performed well in the clutch in a long time. I don't think he has had a game winning drive in the fourth quarter this year. He has turned into a turnover machine when games are tough.

I still love Ben, but I am starting to think he may not be able to win another SB. He is getting older. He has taken a lot of hits and his body is suffering. (Thank you FO for putting a turnstile in front of him and calling it an OLine). I just don't have the confidence in him that I once had.

And, through no fault of his own, it is also our FO's fault that we don't have an adequate backup. Isn't Garrard still out there? If they are going to let Ben take a beating every season, they should have a backup that can play a couple of games so that Ben can heal. I feel bad for Ben, I think he has the heart, and the guts to win, but he has been let down too many times and his body is a mess.

[Bluecoat96]

I'm only saying this one more time, but blaming Arians only shows that YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND FOOTBALL!

It's intellectually lazy. Again, Chucky sat up in the booth all last night just complimenting Arians over and over on how well designed the offense of the Steelers is. It was a GREAT gameplan. It failed because:
A) 49ers defense is the best in the NFL...fuck the ratfilth, SF is better.
B) Lousy field position-defenses rely on teams making mistakes and crapping out with a long field ahead of them, and we did because...
C) Ben was inaccurate and...
D) The line didn't play very well

Using logic and reasoning to post on here? This needs to stop now!!! You should only overreact when you post. Get it right!!!!:sarcasm2:

[suitanim]

Ben is also not "fading".

He played at 70%. His plant foot is injured. Maybe he should not have played...I don't know, that's not my call, but his injury and his inaccuracy are not mutually exclusive.

[fansince'76]

Ben is also not "fading".

He played at 70%. His plant foot is injured. Maybe he should not have played...I don't know, that's not my call, but his injury and his inaccuracy are not mutually exclusive.

My main gripe is that Ben should've been pulled after the second INT. I think even saying he was 70% is being generous. We may have lost with Batch in there all the same, but a hobbled Ben against a really good defense was a really bad mix.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Not at all. The 3 INTs and the lost fumble were drawn up that way.

Actually...

2nd and 7 from the SF 19...B.Roethlisberger pass deep right intended for M.Wallace INTERCEPTED by C.Rogers at SF -4. C.Rogers to SF 27 for 31 yards (M.Starks). (Deep pass on 2nd and 7...as Drawn Up)

2nd and 10 from the Pit 42...(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left intended for H.Miller INTERCEPTED by D.Goldson at SF 34. D.Goldson to PIT 45 for 21 yards (J.Cotchery). (Deep pass on 2nd and 10...as Drawn Up)

2nd and 9 from the Pit 29...(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 17 for -12 yards (sack split by R.McDonald and Ald.Smith). FUMBLES (R.McDonald), RECOVERED by SF-J.Smith at PIT 17. J.Smith to PIT 17 for no gain (R.Foster). (What happened? All Deep Routes?)

and finally...2nd and 10 from the SF 42...quess what?

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left intended for M.Wallace INTERCEPTED by T.Brown at SF 2. T.Brown to SF 2 for no gain (M.Wallace). San Francisco challenged the touchback ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #2 at 03:17.)

but yeah...the Play Calling was Fcking Awesome...sure thing

[fansince'76]

Actually...

2nd and 7 from the SF 19...B.Roethlisberger pass deep right intended for M.Wallace INTERCEPTED by C.Rogers at SF -4. C.Rogers to SF 27 for 31 yards (M.Starks). (Deep pass on 2nd and 7...as Drawn Up)

2nd and 10 from the Pit 42...(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left intended for H.Miller INTERCEPTED by D.Goldson at SF 34. D.Goldson to PIT 45 for 21 yards (J.Cotchery). (Deep pass on 2nd and 10...as Drawn Up)

2nd and 9 from the Pit 29...(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 17 for -12 yards (sack split by R.McDonald and Ald.Smith). FUMBLES (R.McDonald), RECOVERED by SF-J.Smith at PIT 17. J.Smith to PIT 17 for no gain (R.Foster). (What happened? All Deep Routes?)

and finally...2nd and 10 from the SF 42...quess what?

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left intended for M.Wallace INTERCEPTED by T.Brown at SF 2. T.Brown to SF 2 for no gain (M.Wallace). San Francisco challenged the touchback ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #2 at 03:17.)

but yeah...the Play Calling was Fcking Awesome...sure thing

Ben clearly had other people underneath on all those plays, but he went for the long stuff. But take the easy out and keep blaming the playcalling.

[suitanim]

Actually...

2nd and 7 from the SF 19...B.Roethlisberger pass deep right intended for M.Wallace INTERCEPTED by C.Rogers at SF -4. C.Rogers to SF 27 for 31 yards (M.Starks). (Deep pass on 2nd and 7...as Drawn Up)

2nd and 10 from the Pit 42...(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left intended for H.Miller INTERCEPTED by D.Goldson at SF 34. D.Goldson to PIT 45 for 21 yards (J.Cotchery). (Deep pass on 2nd and 10...as Drawn Up)

2nd and 9 from the Pit 29...(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 17 for -12 yards (sack split by R.McDonald and Ald.Smith). FUMBLES (R.McDonald), RECOVERED by SF-J.Smith at PIT 17. J.Smith to PIT 17 for no gain (R.Foster). (What happened? All Deep Routes?)

and finally...2nd and 10 from the SF 42...quess what?

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left intended for M.Wallace INTERCEPTED by T.Brown at SF 2. T.Brown to SF 2 for no gain (M.Wallace). San Francisco challenged the touchback ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #2 at 03:17.)

but yeah...the Play Calling was Fcking Awesome...sure thing

When you have the two best deep threats in the NFL YOU THROW DEEP PASSES TO THEM.

Football, 101.

PLEASE don't engage in taking the lazy way out. The key takeaway to those picks was that on two of them the WR was WIDE OPEN (Miller was wide open and the pass was high...mean TE in this case). The pass was errant. On the pick near the goalline I'm not entirely sure that Wallace was the target...I think it was an errant throw again, and the routes were screwed up by the WR and TE.

I'm sick to death of watching good plays be executed like horseshit and then coming here and watching even solid posters being lured into this extremely lazy excuse making "Oh, the PLAY was wrong".

WRONG.

The plays are fine...the players performed like hot fucking garbage last night. The line didn't block well, and Ben had one of his worst games I can remember.

The thing I find MOST amusing about this is if we hadn't throw the ball deep, the same people on here bitching about throwing the ball deep would be on here bitching.......................that we didn't throw the ball deep!

[Dino 6 Rings]

Ben clearly had other people underneath on all those plays, but he went for the long stuff. But take the easy out and keep blaming the playcalling.

Oh I agree, he continues to Force the ball deep when he shouldn't, that is on Ben...so if your QB is hobbled and being a jackhole, maybe you should to a 2 tightend set and force the small stuff? Or go Small Ball and use the gameplan you installed agains the Titans with the quick release? Maybe?

First int, Brown was open underneath, the 2nd int, two guys were basically running the same route 5 yards apart, no idea why he tried to force it in there other than the fact he's a tool box that thinks he can always make the big play. The best plays of the night were all YAC plays on quick hits...but No, he's got to keep playing ESPN Highlight football...so that goes to the Coaches...not keeping their wounded QB from making bone head plays.

[Dino 6 Rings]

When you have the two best deep threats in the NFL YOU THROW DEEP PASSES TO THEM.

Football, 101.

PLEASE don't engage in taking the lazy way out. The key takeaway to those picks was that on two of them the WR was WIDE OPEN. The pass was errant. On the pick near the goalline I'm not entirely sure that Wallace was the target...I think it was an errant throw again, and the routes were screwed up by the WR and TE.

I'm sick to death of watching good plays be executed like horseshit and then coming here and watching even solid posters being lured into this extremely lazy excuse making "Oh, the PLAY was wrong".

WRONG.

The plays are fine...the players performed like hot fucking garbage last night. The line didn't block well, and Ben had one of his worst games I can remember.

The thing I find MOST amusing about this is if we hadn't throw the ball deep, the same people on here bitching about throwing the ball deep would be on here bitching.......................that we didn't throw the ball deep!

Yeah, you throw deep, after you throw short a couple times. I'm sick of the ESPN Hightlight File Offense where every fcking pass has to be a 40+ yard bomb. CHECK THE FCK DOWN. Its the same shit Ben did in the Super Bowl on the Pick 6. He Refuses to Check down. If that's the case, then COACH The fcking game and REFUSE To allow the Deep ball.

[suitanim]

He had WR's open wide open deep in the secondary...if you aren't going to throw to open receivers when they get open, why even bother throwing the ball? Why not just run a high school Tebow offense and run the ball 70 times a game.

Had Ben had ANY kind of accuracy, at least two of those passes hit (Miller's for 100% sure) and I'd go as far as saying we'd have won the game.

[Dino 6 Rings]

He had WR's open wide open deep in the secondary...if you aren't going to throw to open receivers when they get open, why even bother throwing the ball? Why not just run a high school Tebow offense and run the ball 70 times a game.

Had Ben had ANY kind of accuracy, at least two of those passes hit (Miller's for 100% sure) and I'd go as far as saying we'd have won the game.

Brown was open on the first pick coming across the middle but Ben forced it deep. If he was unable to throw deep, why was in the game? That's on the coaches. OC and HC. Bottom line. If a guy is too hurt to be effective, the Coach needs to pull him. Now, would batch make those throws? Probably not, and Dixon...geesh...but a short passing attack with our WRs that are fast as heck and are very capable of taking a 5 yard slant 60 yards to the house would have been an option? No?

[suitanim]

Brown was open on the first pick coming across the middle but Ben forced it deep. If he was unable to throw deep, why was in the game? That's on the coaches. OC and HC. Bottom line. If a guy is too hurt to be effective, the Coach needs to pull him. Now, would batch make those throws? Probably not, and Dixon...geesh...but a short passing attack with our WRs that are fast as heck and are very capable of taking a 5 yard slant 60 yards to the house would have been an option? No?

I've seen this before. It needs addressed. Arians is NOT responsible for personnel, Tomlin is.

[steeldawg]

Actually I think its more the defense that needs to be looked at.....All I hear about is our exotic blitz schemes and complex defense, but opposing offenses seem to have no problem picking it up......If we cant pressure the qb in the playoffs we will not beat teams like GB or the Saints.....I like harrison and woodley off the edge but there is no push at all coming up the middle, making it way to easy for qbs to step up and pick us apart. Also we need to address our kicker situation.....sushi struggles with long field goals, and in a league now where every kicker is knockng the ball thhrough the endzone on kickoffs,sushi does not even reach the endzone. Just my opinion......I think the offense is good when they are healthy.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Ben was off because of poor footwork due to that high ankle sprain. That is more the cause for the lack of points than anything.

I will agree that the Steelers dont look good at finishing in the Red Zone this year, but it had nothing to do with that game as they were not there. Can be pretty simple this upcoming draft.....pick the best available OG in the 1st round and maybe another in the 2nd.

[steeldawg]

Ben was off because of poor footwork due to that high ankle sprain. That is more the cause for the lack of points than anything.

I will agree that the Steelers dont look good at finishing in the Red Zone this year, but it had nothing to do with that game as they were not there. Can be pretty simple this upcoming draft.....pick the best available OG in the 1st round and maybe another in the 2nd.

I agree I thought the gameplan was good we had guys running wide open that he just missed and he could not extend plays....Our lack of scoring was a result of Ben being hurt not the gameplan.

[tube517]

Actually I think its more the defense that needs to be looked at.....All I hear about is our exotic blitz schemes and complex defense, but opposing offenses seem to have no problem picking it up......If we cant pressure the qb in the playoffs we will not beat teams like GB or the Saints.....I like harrison and woodley off the edge but there is no push at all coming up the middle, making it way to easy for qbs to step up and pick us apart. Also we need to address our kicker situation.....sushi struggles with long field goals, and in a league now where every kicker is knockng the ball thhrough the endzone on kickoffs,sushi does not even reach the endzone. Just my opinion......I think the offense is good when they are healthy.

Even w/Woodley and Harrison in there, the other teams are playing dink and dunk and getting rid of the ball quickly. Add to that little to no turnovers and this defense looks average. I know Harrison and Woodley have barely played together this year but teams have caught up to the Steelers defense. They aren't built to stay on the field a long time.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Even w/Woodley and Harrison in there, the other teams are playing dink and dunk and getting rid of the ball quickly. Add to that little to no turnovers and this defense looks average. I know Harrison and Woodley have barely played together this year but teams have caught up to the Steelers defense. They aren't built to stay on the field a long time.

If you can get to the QB, you can play tighter man coverage like vs. the Patriots. There was no rush, there was no duress applied on the SF offense like the Ravens and Cardinals applied to them.

[Edman]

Thus, we learn the difference between a good coordinator and a bad coordinator. Good coordinators are able to exploit teams' weaknesses. We gladly let Smith take the underneath and outside stuff last night and he took it. Sure enough, he out-gamed Ben and styled on the Steelers all night.

We saw the consistent problem of the Ben/Arians marriage. Greediness and unwillingness to take what the Defense gives you. That's why they have problems with heavy blitzing teams and strong defenses. Arians got the right idea early on. Short passes to negate the 49ers blitz, but then Ben kept getting greedy.

[BlastFurnace]

Suisham was fine. Two difficult kicks and he made the more difficult of the two. A 48 yarder isn't a chip shot.

I disagree. Suisham has been cut multiple times for a reason...he's a journeyman kicker that is average to below average.

He instills no confidence at all with his ability to kick an important FG.

[BlastFurnace]

Arians? I thought people would be blaming LeBeau's third down schemes and for letting the niners drive to our 40 every possession. I'm not saying let's replace LeBeau, but it's a lot more simple than looking at a box score and going "3 points?! FIRE ARIANS!" We shit the bed, now let's change the sheets and move on. Whole night was weird starting at 8:19.

One thing is for sure, this team cannot rush the passer effectively any longer and they don't force the offense into mistakes. I have a hard time believing that it's the talent of the players on defense only. This season, Curtis Painter, Tyler Palko, Blaine Gabbert, and Colt McCoy were within a whisker of beating the Steelers and the Steelers didn't pressure then either.

[Dino 6 Rings]

I've seen this before. It needs addressed. Arians is NOT responsible for personnel, Tomlin is.

Its a good thing I like you and that your Avatar has always made me smile LOL

[steelerdude15]

Continue building this offensive line by drafting a guard and getting rid of Kemo.

[Chidi29]

I've seen this before. It needs addressed. Arians is NOT responsible for personnel, Tomlin is.

This, a millon times over. That is Tomlin's decision. That is why when you see Ben reference nearly being taken out, he says that he told "Tomlin" no. Not Arians.

And come on, using ESPN play by play to justify yourself in a game that just happened? Really, the second throw was a "deep" pass? It was a 15 yard "in" route to Heath. Hardly a 40 yard bomb.

Let's understand how routes work. Not everyone can run the same type of route. If everyone runs short, you get too much congestion in that area and won't have a throwing lane. Every play, there are guys running deep (clearout) routes and guys running short/hot/safet valve routes. It is Ben's job to make a decision where to go based on the coverage. He made a bad decision on the first one (Wallace doesn't have inside position, Johnson can't get inside of the backer, safety not worried about Johnson watching Wallace the whole way and actually undercut the route even thought it was picked off by Rogers), and made poor throws on the other two.

[Dino 6 Rings]

This, a millon times over. That is Tomlin's decision. That is why when you see Ben reference nearly being taken out, he says that he told "Tomlin" no. Not Arians.

And come on, using ESPN play by play to justify yourself in a game that just happened? Really, the second throw was a "deep" pass? It was a 15 yard "in" route to Heath. Hardly a 40 yard bomb.

Let's understand how routes work. Not everyone can run the same type of route. If everyone runs short, you get too much congestion in that area and won't have a throwing lane. Every play, there are guys running deep (clearout) routes and guys running short/hot/safet valve routes. It is Ben's job to make a decision where to go based on the coverage. He made a bad decision on the first one (Wallace doesn't have inside position, Johnson can't get inside of the backer, safety not worried about Johnson watching Wallace the whole way and actually undercut the route even thought it was picked off by Rogers), and made poor throws on the other two.

You are Darn Right I'll use the ESPN Play by Play to point out that they were throwing Deep when they should have thrown short the way they did in the Titans game...lets see that game...

1st and 10 at 50 I.Redman right guard to TEN 49 for 1 yard (W.Witherspoon, S.Smith).
2nd and 9 at TEN 49 B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to W.Saunders. Coverage by #92 Witherspoon
3rd and 9 at TEN 49 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to M.Wallace. Coverage #30 McCourty. Pittsburgh challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace to TEN 38 for 11 yards (J.McCourty).
1st and 10 at TEN 38 B.Roethlisberger pass short right to I.Redman to TEN 33 for 5 yards (J.McCourty; A.Ayers).
2nd and 5 at TEN 33 B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to D.Johnson to TEN 29 for 4 yards (W.Witherspoon).
3rd and 1 at TEN 29 (No Huddle) I.Redman up the middle to TEN 27 for 2 yards (D.Ball).
1st and 10 at TEN 27 I.Redman up the middle to TEN 25 for 2 yards (B.Ruud, J.Babineaux).
2nd and 8 at TEN 25 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to A.Brown to TEN 8 for 17 yards (M.Griffin, J.McCourty).
1st and 8 at TEN 8 I.Redman up the middle to TEN 8 for no gain (A.Ayers, D.Ball).
2nd and 8 at TEN 8 B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Miller for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


2nd and 5 at PIT 35 I.Redman right guard to PIT 45 for 10 yards (J.Babineaux).
1st and 10 at PIT 45 B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to I.Redman to PIT 44 for -1 yards (W.Witherspoon).
2nd and 11 at PIT 44 B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace pushed ob at PIT 50 for 6 yards (J.McCourty).
3rd and 5 at 50 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to H.Ward (J.McCourty).
4th and 5 at 50 (Punt formation) D.Sepulveda pass short right to R.Mundy to TEN 17 for 33 yards (G.McRath).
Timeout #1 by PIT at 11:51.
1st and 10 at TEN 17 (Shotgun) A.Brown right end to TEN 7 for 10 yards (A.Smith, B.Ruud).
1st and 7 at TEN 7 B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Ward for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

1st and 10 at PIT 12 I.Redman right tackle to PIT 12 for no gain (B.Ruud).
2nd and 10 at PIT 12 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace to PIT 19 for 7 yards (J.McCourty).
3rd and 3 at PIT 19 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Ward to PIT 25 for 6 yards (W.Witherspoon).
1st and 10 at PIT 25 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to M.Wallace (A.Verner).
2nd and 10 at PIT 25 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Miller to PIT 43 for 18 yards (A.Verner; J.Babineaux).
Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:26.
1st and 10 at PIT 43 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Ward to TEN 45 for 12 yards (B.Ruud).
1st and 5 at TEN 40 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to E.Sanders (A.Smith).
2nd and 5 at TEN 40 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to A.Brown.
3rd and 5 at TEN 40 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to H.Ward to TEN 33 for 7 yards (J.Babineaux).
1st and 10 at TEN 33 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep middle to E.Sanders. Coverage by #30 McCourty.
2nd and 10 at TEN 33 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to A.Brown to TEN 27 for 6 yards (A.Verner).
3rd and 4 at TEN 27 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right intended for E.Sanders INTERCEPTED by C.Finnegan at TEN 26. C.Finnegan to TEN 34 for 8 yards (M.Wallace).


Ok, so that Shows me, that the GAMEPLAN put in for the Game against the Titans when Ben was also Hurt and had problems with his foot was a shotgun Short Yardage Effective Passing attack and in that game we Passed 35 Times and Ran it 28 Times...last night...44 to 18.

See that is my problem. Why not revert to the other game plan, especially with our WRs that are not only good on Deep Routes but are super effective with the YAC Yards when they make catches on short yards?

That's what I'm saying.

Is that on Bruce or Mike? Both of them, especially if the game plan was a short passing attack and the QB wasn't following it and kept trying to force crap deep. Knowing, as we all did in the first half and were able to see, that he was unable to put too much on his foot. if the Game Plan wasn't the short passing attacking with some runs, then I question...Why Not?

[suitanim]

That's why it's probably better to rest him for 2-3 weeks and let Batch take all the first team snaps in practice. Ben CAN make all the throws when he's healthy, but it's hard to make your body do what your mind thinks it can when your body is only at 60%. Batch is a very serviceable back-up, he's just rusty...lets let him shake off that rust over the next 14 days and let Ben heal his ankle.

I'm going to maintain that if we had Pouncey and a healthy Ben, we win that game yesterday probably 20-17. We Juuuuuuuuuust missed on a bunch of stuff that we normally hit. They juuuuuuuust missed ona bunch of stuff they normally miss, and hit a couple things they normally miss, too...

[Dino 6 Rings]

That's why it's probably better to rest him for 2-3 weeks and let Batch take all the first team snaps in practice. Ben CAN make all the throws when he's healthy, but it's hard to make your body do what your mind thinks it can when your body is only at 60%. Batch is a very serviceable back-up, he's just rusty...lets let him shake off that rust over the next 14 days and let Ben heal his ankle.

I'm going to maintain that if we had Pouncey and a healthy Ben, we win that game yesterday probably 20-17. We Juuuuuuuuuust missed on a bunch of stuff that we normally hit. They juuuuuuuust missed ona bunch of stuff they normally miss, and hit a couple things they normally miss, too...

I guess I was just expecting more of a Titans game type approach by the offense with quick hits (In fact the Brown Drop was Huge on that one slant he could have took that to the house if he catches it and breaks outside, huge error on him)

But if Ben was too hurt to play, and we played him anyway, that is In fact On Tomlin. I give you that.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Our Defense also was pretty lame, so its not just on the Offense last night, and special teams...stupid Andy Lee...geesh that guy.

[Chidi29]

Again, you're just using blanket information on the play-by-play. Whose to say the plays from last night were designed to go where they do? First rule with Ben is that he likes to improvise. The INT on the attempt to Heath was one where the play was extended. By that point, there is no "go to" receiver called by Arians. It's get open and Ben will try and get you the ball. Scramble drill, although it was more of a hobble drill last night.

Ben had the choice of taking the drag to Brown on his first INT. He chose to force a throw. That's on him, not Arians. That's what you're not understanding. Arians calls the play, he doesn't execute it and like I told you, routes are often run based on coverage and the throws are based off of that.

And come on, why do you think we passed as much as we did? A good ten of those attempts came from us being down huge in the 4th quarter. Not to mention how good the 49ers run defense is. Very tough to run on (allowing 70 yards per, no rushing TDs all year). Heck, I commend Arians for the running game last night. He went to the draw, something we don't do often are frankly, aren't that good at. But it's a good idea to spread out the 49ers defense to create running lanes. Because you can't run at their base set. It's like running into a wall.

[Chidi29]

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to R.Mendenhall to PIT 38 for 7 yards (J.Smith). Caught at PIT 29. 9-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Miller to PIT 41 for 3 yards (L.Grant). Caught at PIT 40. 1-yd YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace pushed ob at SF 22 for 36 yards (R.Smith). Caught at PIT 48. 30-yds YAC

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to A.Brown pushed ob at PIT 31 for 7 yards (C.Culliver). Caught at PIT 25. 6-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to A.Brown.

B.Roethlisberger pass short left to R.Mendenhall to PIT 38 for 13 yards (N.Bowman). Caught at PIT 25. 13-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Miller to SF 48 for 5 yards (P.Haralson). Caught at SF 48. 0-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to J.Cotchery to SF 48 for 10 yards (C.Rogers). PENALTY on PIT-M.Wallace, Illegal Formation, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 42 - No Play.
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to I.Redman.
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace to PIT 49 for 7 yards (C.Culliver). Caught at PIT 48. 1-yd YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to M.Wallace to SF 47 for 3 yards (C.Culliver). Caught at SF 48. 1-yd YAC
B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to R.Mendenhall.
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to A.Brown (L.Grant).

(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to A.Brown to PIT 45 for 19 yards (C.Culliver). Caught at PIT 29. 16-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace to SF 48 for 7 yards (D.Whitner). Caught at SF 48. 0-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to M.Wallace (L.Grant).
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to A.Brown to SF 43 for 5 yards (S.Spencer). Caught at SF 45. 2-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to M.Moore to SF 36 for 7 yards (N.Bowman) [Ald.Smith]. Caught at SF 42. 6-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to M.Moore pushed ob at SF 38 for -2 yards (N.Bowman). Caught at SF 42. 4-yds YAC

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to M.Wallace (T.Brown).

B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Miller to PIT 49 for 39 yards (D.Goldson). Caught at PIT 25. 24-yds YAC
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Miller to SF 41 for 11 yards (D.Whitner). Caught at SF 41. 0-yds YAC

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to A.Brown pushed ob at PIT 24 for 4 yards (A.Brooks). Caught at PIT 21. 3-yds YAC
(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to J.Cotchery to SF 30 for 36 yards (D.Goldson). Caught at PIT 46. 24-yds YAC
(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to H.Miller (L.Grant) [Ald.Smith].

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to H.Miller.
(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to R.Mendenhall to PIT 13 for 5 yards (D.Goldson). Caught at PIT 12. 1-yd YAC

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to J.Cotchery to PIT 21 for 7 yards (N.Bowman) [Ald.Smith]. PIT-M.Moore was injured during the play. His return is Questionable. Caught at PIT 21. 0-yds YAC

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace to PIT 20 for 13 yards (C.Culliver). Caught at PIT 13. 7-yds YAC

(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Miller to SF 42 for 24 yards (D.Goldson, L.Grant). Caught at PIT 43. 15-yds YAC
(No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to H.Miller (L.Grant).

(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to J.Cotchery to PIT 21 for 9 yards (C.Rogers).
(Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to M.Wallace.

[Chidi29]

Let's take a look at this Dino. Since you value it so highly let's see how playing your game works.

Those are all the passes from last nights game that are considered "short" according to the ESPN play-by-play.

Guess how many there are?

33.

Out of 44 pass attempts.

33/44

What percentage of short passes are those?

75%.

Let's do a quick recap.

--------------

Three-quarters of the passes last night were short.

That leves just 11 to be either medium or deep.

Apparently that isn't good enough. Every pass should be short! All of them! All the receivers must stay within a 5 yard window. Because Ben clearly can't throw the ball down the field despite the fact showing good zip on multiple passes.

Instead, you just cherry-picked a few instances where we went deep. Because God forbid you do that with Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown.

Typical Arians detractor. Disappointed but not surprised.

[pepsyman1]

Do you realize how many teams over the years have won the Super Bowl and haven't been in the Top 10 in either offense or defense? Stats schmats.

Fine lady...have great respect for you, BUT that is no longer a correct statement. In the last 11 years only ONE team has won the Superbowl and not been in the top 10 in either offensive scoring or defense against scoring. The 2007 Giants. Every other team was in the top 10 of at least one of those categories and five of them were in BOTH (including Cowher's Steeler's in 2005). 7 of those 11 were in the top 10 in scoring. The 4 teams that WEREN'T in the top 10 in scoring were the TOP defense against scoring EVERY TIME. That's not just a stat, that's the reality of this league now. If you can't score points, you have to play defense the way the 49er's are this year...you have to give up basically nothing to win.

[NCSteeler]

I don't know about people being mad about going deep too much??? In this game after he missed wallace wide open down the side, I was hoping he'd throw that 3 more times, bound to hit one of them for a TD, but they never came back to it till it was too late and it ended up a pick, which brings me to another topic. I love Wallace's speed, but I don't see him being physical enough at the point of attack on the ball, he gives too much space or gives up position to the DBs too much.

BTW, wonder how Rooney feels about his demand to run the ball more and better.

For all you Arians bashers, I've been one myself, but he ain't gonna do much better till front office provides them with a Oline that isn't made up of scraps. Outside Pouncey I don't think any of these guys would be starting on another team.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Let's take a look at this Dino. Since you value it so highly let's see how playing your game works.

Those are all the passes from last nights game that are considered "short" according to the ESPN play-by-play.

Guess how many there are?

33.

Out of 44 pass attempts.

33/44

What percentage of short passes are those?

75%.

Let's do a quick recap.

--------------

Three-quarters of the passes last night were short.

That leves just 11 to be either medium or deep.

Apparently that isn't good enough. Every pass should be short! All of them! All the receivers must stay within a 5 yard window. Because Ben clearly can't throw the ball down the field despite the fact showing good zip on multiple passes.

Instead, you just cherry-picked a few instances where we went deep. Because God forbid you do that with Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown.

Typical Arians detractor. Disappointed but not surprised.

Take your little attitude and run along Chidi...

The difference between what I posted and what you posted is that I didn't PULL OUT the bad plays...

1st and 10 at PIT 30 R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 31 for 1 yard (R.McDonald).
2nd and 9 at PIT 31 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to R.Mendenhall to PIT 38 for 7 yards (J.Smith). Caught at PIT 29. 9-yds YAC
3rd and 2 at PIT 38 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Miller to PIT 41 for 3 yards (L.Grant). Caught at PIT 40. 1-yd YAC
1st and 10 at PIT 41 R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 42 for 1 yard (I.Sopoaga, A.Brooks).
2nd and 9 at PIT 42 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace pushed ob at SF 22 for 36 yards (R.Smith). Caught at PIT 48. 30-yds YAC
1st and 10 at SF 22 R.Mendenhall left guard to SF 19 for 3 yards (P.Haralson).
2nd and 7 at SF 19 B.Roethlisberger pass deep right intended for M.Wallace INTERCEPTED by C.Rogers at SF -4. C.Rogers to SF 27 for


1st and 10 at PIT 20 R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 24 for 4 yards (I.Sopoaga).
2nd and 6 at PIT 24 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep left to M.Wallace.
3rd and 6 at PIT 24 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to A.Brown pushed ob at PIT 31 for 7 yards (C.Culliver). Caught at PIT 25. 6-yds YAC
1st and 10 at PIT 31 R.Mendenhall right tackle to PIT 34 for 3 yards (A.Brooks).
2nd and 7 at PIT 34 (Shotgun) R.Mendenhall right guard to PIT 42 for 8 yards (D.Goldson, N.Bowman).
1st and 10 at PIT 42 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to A.Brown.
2nd and 10 at PIT 42 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left intended for H.Miller INTERCEPTED by D.Goldson at SF 34. D.Goldson to PIT 45 for 21 yards (J.Cotchery).


See that, see how when they went away from the short passing attack it FAILED

now, who is that on? Ben and Bruce, that's who.

3 Points on offense. Three total Points. Heck in a 7 turnover game against the Ravens they got 7 points. In this one, 3 Points. Game Plan Fail on that Buddy Boy

[X-Terminator]

Oh for crying out loud, I've already taken a day and a half away from this board. Please don't make it another one. It's Christmas time, people. Relax!

[Dino 6 Rings]

Oh for crying out loud, I've already taken a day and a half away from this board. Please don't make it another one. It's Christmas time, people. Relax!

I'm actually very relaxed, it could be the cold medication, but I'm relaxed...pretty sure you've seen my posts when I'm not relaxed. Just stating my point was all.

Merry Christmas

[Devilsdancefloor]

the short passes and no huddle worked well i thought :noidea: but something has to change

[suitanim]

Oh for crying out loud, I've already taken a day and a half away from this board. Please don't make it another one. It's Christmas time, people. Relax!

No! We will never win another game! Don't you understand? This is the worst thing EVER! The Rams will beat us by 100, and the Browns will beat us by 250 points!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhh!

[Dino 6 Rings]

No! We will never win another game! Don't you understand? This is the worst thing EVER! The Rams will beat us by 100, and the Browns will beat us by 250 points!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhh!

Oh come on man, that wasn't said at all. Its just some Fandom Evaluation and Disagreement over Philosophy and Play calling from some people that aren't paid to coach or even evaluate NFL Footbal...just folks chatting on a Forum having some lively debate...

[suitanim]

It is painfully and woefully predictable that the sky will be falling, that all the players suck, and all the coaches need fired after a bad loss.

Look, I knew we were going to lose to the 49ers. They are a good team with a GREAT defense and they needed this win. They were at home and we were all smashed up and depleted. We really didn't stand a chance. We were never going to go 19-0, and this game had all the trappings of not only a loss, but very possibly a bad loss. That's why I never even bothered looking in the game thread, let alone reading/posting there...it's always the same. Because our Oline was depleted, and we played a great defense, and Ben was banged up, the loss LOOKS worse than it actually was. But, man, it just gets old, this wicked negativity and reflexive misguided anger and lashing out at every aspect of the team when we lose.

This is the NFL. Let me show a great example of how one game means almost nothing. In week 14, the Chiefs were CRUSHED by a very average Jets team (although I hear they have the best DC in all of football...WTF ever). it totally looked like the Chefs phones it in. Then, the next week, they not only beat the best team in the NFL, they hold the best offense and best QB in the league to 14 points. Does that mean the Chefs are now the best team in the NFL? Hell no! Does it mean the Pack is done and destined to tank? Nope...in fact, they probably will go on to win the Super Bowl.

point is, it was one game. There were a ton of intangibles working against us. We lost. We will win our last two games, and head for the playoffs. It was just one game...

[suitanim]

Let me clarify. Look at what we have seen.

-Tomlin is "failing us"
-Ben is "fading"
-LeBeau is old and washed up
-Arians needs fired because he throws too many deep balls
-Timmons has "disappeared"
-Woodely (still not 100%) has also disappeared.

What is it about a single bad loss that brings out such rampant negativity and a rash of stupidity?

[steelreserve]

One thing for sure... We need a new FG kicker!

Yeah, just six more field goals and we would've pulled that one out.

[suitanim]

Let's go back and re-work this thread...it can still be salvaged:

Offensive Changes Needed for Next Year:
A) Pick up one or two OL in FA
B) Draft another OL or two in the first 3 picks.

Sit back and enjoy a Super Bowl winning season during which our OLine opens holes for blockers and we protect our QB.

[Devilsdancefloor]

hind sight is always 20 20 so lets move on. it sucked big time we blew a huge chance. we could have put in dixon the more mobile of QBs as well, but we didnt, so why no just chalk it up to a bad game we could have done A LOT of things better than we did.this doesnt just fall on the O yes the TO hurt, but the D blew coverages as well.

[steelreserve]

Let me clarify. Look at what we have seen.

-Tomlin is "failing us"
-Ben is "fading"
-LeBeau is old and washed up
-Arians needs fired because he throws too many deep balls
-Timmons has "disappeared"
-Woodely (still not 100%) has also disappeared.

What is it about a single bad loss that brings out such rampant negativity and a rash of stupidity?

Probably that there are a good number of people with a grudge against one certain player or coach, and this is an excuse to bring it out. Then people who like that player try to defend him by reassigning the blame.

Like, if Parker was still on the team, we would've had 21 yards on 19 carries, and I would've blamed him for the offense sucking.
Then someone else who liked Parker but hated Kemo would say "Well no way - nobody could run behind this shitty offensive line, not even Barry Sanders!"
Then someone else would say "It's not Parker or the line, it's that the 49ers knew Ben was hurt and stacked up to take away the run, so it's Arians' fault for not coming up with a better game plan."
Then someone who thinks Ben is an asshole would say, "The game plan was fine, Ben just couldn't execute and kept turning the ball over."
Then someone who never liked Tomlin will say he didn't get them mentally ready for the game.
Then someone who thinks it's still 2010 will say the defense has gotten soft, which can be either Lebeau's fault or McFadden's or Gay''s, depending.
Then someone who doesn't like the kicker will blame the kicker.
Then someone who's superstitious will blame the fact that it was a road game, or the late start, or say the power outage messed with our heads, and they'll be back next week to say the short week after a Monday night game affected the outcome.

Basically a bunch of different personal agendas that end up blending together to the point where it's easy to think everyone hates everything. My guess is, it's more like except for the really obvious stuff, it's a small group hating one specific part, antoher small group hating a different part, etc. Not that everyone is so negative all the time.

[steelreserve]

Let's go back and re-work this thread...it can still be salvaged:

Offensive Changes Needed for Next Year:
A) Pick up one or two OL in FA
B) Draft another OL or two in the first 3 picks.

Sit back and enjoy a Super Bowl winning season during which our OLine opens holes for blockers and we protect our QB.

Is it 2007?

Wait, I meant 2008.

Or maybe 2009. Well, maybe basically every year.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Forgot to mention that the Goodell is working against the Steelers so he suspended Harrison for the game knowing we wouldn't be able to generate any pressure against a QB that had been sacked 18 times in the previous 3 games, as well as having told the Refs to make it hard on us by making bogus calls such as "leaping" on a FG to help the Niners win and put the Ravens back in 1st place of the AFC North so that they could FINALLY get that home playoff game again...I mean really...at least if we are going to put blame where it belongs...

[suitanim]

I blame Obama for the loss.

Others probably blame Bush.

[Dino 6 Rings]

I blame Obama for the loss.

Others probably blame Bush.

LOL! That got me laughing!

[steelreserve]

I blame Wall Street.

[Chidi29]

Take your little attitude and run along Chidi...

The difference between what I posted and what you posted is that I didn't PULL OUT the bad plays...

1st and 10 at PIT 30 R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 31 for 1 yard (R.McDonald).
2nd and 9 at PIT 31 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to R.Mendenhall to PIT 38 for 7 yards (J.Smith). Caught at PIT 29. 9-yds YAC
3rd and 2 at PIT 38 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Miller to PIT 41 for 3 yards (L.Grant). Caught at PIT 40. 1-yd YAC
1st and 10 at PIT 41 R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 42 for 1 yard (I.Sopoaga, A.Brooks).
2nd and 9 at PIT 42 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Wallace pushed ob at SF 22 for 36 yards (R.Smith). Caught at PIT 48. 30-yds YAC
1st and 10 at SF 22 R.Mendenhall left guard to SF 19 for 3 yards (P.Haralson).
2nd and 7 at SF 19 B.Roethlisberger pass deep right intended for M.Wallace INTERCEPTED by C.Rogers at SF -4. C.Rogers to SF 27 for


1st and 10 at PIT 20 R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 24 for 4 yards (I.Sopoaga).
2nd and 6 at PIT 24 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep left to M.Wallace.
3rd and 6 at PIT 24 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to A.Brown pushed ob at PIT 31 for 7 yards (C.Culliver). Caught at PIT 25. 6-yds YAC
1st and 10 at PIT 31 R.Mendenhall right tackle to PIT 34 for 3 yards (A.Brooks).
2nd and 7 at PIT 34 (Shotgun) R.Mendenhall right guard to PIT 42 for 8 yards (D.Goldson, N.Bowman).
1st and 10 at PIT 42 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to A.Brown.
2nd and 10 at PIT 42 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left intended for H.Miller INTERCEPTED by D.Goldson at SF 34. D.Goldson to PIT 45 for 21 yards (J.Cotchery).


See that, see how when they went away from the short passing attack it FAILED

now, who is that on? Ben and Bruce, that's who.

3 Points on offense. Three total Points. Heck in a 7 turnover game against the Ravens they got 7 points. In this one, 3 Points. Game Plan Fail on that Buddy Boy

So we can never throw the ball deep while Ben is hurt? We can't run routes where a player runs a deeper pattern? Everything has to be confined within a 10 yard window? You think we'll have success by putting the players in a sardine can. Let alone players that are as fast as Brown and Wallace. Every single throw needs to be short?

And how does Arians do that? Call, "Short Throw on one"?

The last INT is an example of it being a smart idea to go deep but just a poor throw. Wallace is one on one with the CB. That's the coverage you're looking for. The ball just hung up in the air and the CB had an easy play on it.

[steelreserve]

So we can never throw the ball deep while Ben is hurt? We can't run routes where a player runs a deeper pattern? Everything has to be confined within a 10 yard window? You think we'll have success by putting the players in a sardine can. Let alone players that are as fast as Brown and Wallace. Every single throw needs to be short?

And how does Arians do that? Call, "Short Throw on one"?

The last INT is an example of it being a smart idea to go deep but just a poor throw. Wallace is one on one with the CB. That's the coverage you're looking for. The ball just hung up in the air and the CB had an easy play on it.

In all fairness, Ben did look like shit most of the time when trying to throw the ball deep. Seemed like something was wrong with him. I do remember hearing something earlier in the week where Ben himself said it was hard adjusting because the ankle was making him throw off his back foot. May be more than a coincidence there.

[Chidi29]

In all fairness, Ben did look like shit most of the time when trying to throw the ball deep. Seemed like something was wrong with him. I do remember hearing something earlier in the week where Ben himself said it was hard adjusting because the ankle was making him throw off his back foot. May be more than a coincidence there.

Ben has always thrown a subpar deep ball.

Yeah, the ankle definitely affected him but it is hard to pinpoint exactly when and how. Remember, he overthrow Wallace earlier in the game.

[XxKnightxX]

In all fairness, Ben did look like shit most of the time when trying to throw the ball deep. Seemed like something was wrong with him. I do remember hearing something earlier in the week where Ben himself said it was hard adjusting because the ankle was making him throw off his back foot. May be more than a coincidence there.

Just Watch Eli Manning who has a horrendous tendency of doing that. Most of the times his balls get overthrown or intercepted. Fundamentals are fundamentals. You throw of your back foot, dont expect much of a positive outcome from it.

[Steeldude]

In all fairness, Ben did look like shit most of the time when trying to throw the ball deep. Seemed like something was wrong with him. I do remember hearing something earlier in the week where Ben himself said it was hard adjusting because the ankle was making him throw off his back foot. May be more than a coincidence there.

BR has always thrown off his back foot. it's why his long passes are not very good. he has gotten better this past season. i don't see as many short, hanging lobs as before

[pepsyman1]

Ben has always thrown a subpar deep ball.

Yeah, the ankle definitely affected him but it is hard to pinpoint exactly when and how. Remember, he overthrow Wallace earlier in the game.

You are right on that one Chidi, although he has generally been better this year. He frequently waits too long to make the decision on whether to throw deep and the receiver ends up having to wait for it. As big and strong a guy as Ben is, you'd expect that he'd throw 60-65 yards without a sweat. Bradshaw used to throw absolute ropes better than 50 yards (not to mention the 65-70 yard bombs) and he's 5 inches shorter than Ben.

Having said that, knowing that Ben was dealing with the bad ankle, I probably would have just tried going deep once or twice to see how Ben handled it and then hung up on that idea for the night. I think Arians could have adjusted the gameplan better to suit what Ben was gonna be able to throw more consistently. And I really would have liked to have seen more of the approach that they had against the Patriots. I think that's the best preparation job we've seen out of Arians, but he seems determined not to take that approach again.

[XxKnightxX]

You are right on that one Chidi, although he has generally been better this year. He frequently waits too long to make the decision on whether to throw deep and the receiver ends up having to wait for it. As big and strong a guy as Ben is, you'd expect that he'd throw 60-65 yards without a sweat. Bradshaw used to throw absolute ropes better than 50 yards (not to mention the 65-70 yard bombs) and he's 5 inches shorter than Ben.

Having said that, knowing that Ben was dealing with the bad ankle, I probably would have just tried going deep once or twice to see how Ben handled it and then hung up on that idea for the night. I think Arians could have adjusted the gameplan better to suit what Ben was gonna be able to throw more consistently. And I really would have liked to have seen more of the approach that they had against the Patriots. I think that's the best preparation job we've seen out of Arians, but he seems determined not to take that approach again.

Biggest Cock Tease of the year. So much hope, and gone before you know it lol.

[HometownGal]

Fine lady...have great respect for you, BUT that is no longer a correct statement. In the last 11 years only ONE team has won the Superbowl and not been in the top 10 in either offensive scoring or defense against scoring. The 2007 Giants. Every other team was in the top 10 of at least one of those categories and five of them were in BOTH (including Cowher's Steeler's in 2005). 7 of those 11 were in the top 10 in scoring. The 4 teams that WEREN'T in the top 10 in scoring were the TOP defense against scoring EVERY TIME. That's not just a stat, that's the reality of this league now. If you can't score points, you have to play defense the way the 49er's are this year...you have to give up basically nothing to win.

My point is - who really cares? :doh: If the Steelers finished mid to last in every statistical category out there and still won the Super Bowl, it really wouldn't matter would it?

[Dino 6 Rings]

Ben has always thrown a subpar deep ball.

Yeah, the ankle definitely affected him but it is hard to pinpoint exactly when and how. Remember, he overthrow Wallace earlier in the game.

That is actually a great call on the Ben always throwing a subpar deep ball. It isn't mentioned enough.

[O'Malley]

My point is - who really cares? :doh: If the Steelers finished mid to last in every statistical category out there and still won the Super Bowl, it really wouldn't matter would it?

THIS^

[X-Terminator]

My point is - who really cares? :doh: If the Steelers finished mid to last in every statistical category out there and still won the Super Bowl, it really wouldn't matter would it?

Exactly. The Packers, Pats* and Saints all have great offenses, but none of them may even make it to the Super Bowl. Yes, the offense needs to improve, but wins are the only thing that matters.

[pepsyman1]

My point is - who really cares? :doh: If the Steelers finished mid to last in every statistical category out there and still won the Super Bowl, it really wouldn't matter would it?

Off course, but the reality is that that doesn't happen. The reality is; to win a superbowl, you have to be really good at scoring, really really good at not letting other teams score or both.

[Mach1]

Let's go back and re-work this thread...it can still be salvaged:

Offensive Changes Needed for Next Year:
A) Pick up one or two OL in FA
B) Draft another OL or two in the first 3 picks.
C) A better OC

Sit back and enjoy a Super Bowl winning season during which our OLine opens holes for blockers and we protect our QB.

Added a C

We're currently #22 in offense. Since arians has been OC, the Steelers offense ranked #17, #22, #7, #14 and again #22 this season, in terms of points scored.

[Chidi29]

You are right on that one Chidi, although he has generally been better this year. He frequently waits too long to make the decision on whether to throw deep and the receiver ends up having to wait for it. As big and strong a guy as Ben is, you'd expect that he'd throw 60-65 yards without a sweat. Bradshaw used to throw absolute ropes better than 50 yards (not to mention the 65-70 yard bombs) and he's 5 inches shorter than Ben.

Having said that, knowing that Ben was dealing with the bad ankle, I probably would have just tried going deep once or twice to see how Ben handled it and then hung up on that idea for the night. I think Arians could have adjusted the gameplan better to suit what Ben was gonna be able to throw more consistently. And I really would have liked to have seen more of the approach that they had against the Patriots. I think that's the best preparation job we've seen out of Arians, but he seems determined not to take that approach again.

Who knows what the plan was in terms of the deep ball. That's the point I'm making. Is it Ben or is it Arians? Who knows, I don't and I know no one here can say for sure. I know Arians has said in the past that there are about five calls a game specifically designed to go deep. Maybe that was cut down for Monday's game. Injured or not, it's still hard as a QB to not try and go deep if you have one on one coverage. And if you don't go deep, defenses won't respect it and will play in a box. And if a defense doesn't respect our speed, a lot of what we try to do on offense goes out the window.

[Texasteel]

Off course, but the reality is that that doesn't happen. The reality is; to win a superbowl, you have to be really good at scoring, really really good at not letting other teams score or both.


The reality is, that we have already been in the playoffs time and time again, and are on the way to the playoffs now. We have played in the SB a couple of times and have won there as well.

[Count Steeler]

Beef up the O Line. I would not be upset at all if we concentrate on shoring up both the OL and DL. Throw in an LB and a QB prospect and I would be happy.

We need to win the line of scrimmage. Pouncey has me a bit concerned with his persistent leg/ankle problems. He may not be a long termer.

DL needs some work as well and both units need depth. We can pass on WR, RB. We can pass on secondary, unless a safety with a lot of upside is available 2-5 rounds. FO HAS to protect Ben. Finally.

[HometownGal]

Off course, but the reality is that that doesn't happen. The reality is; to win a superbowl, you have to be really good at scoring, really really good at not letting other teams score or both.

OR - have the refs give you the game. :heh:

I agree with your statement in theory but in reality, any playoff team has a legitimate shot at winning and going all the way to the big game no matter where they rank offensively or defensively. Are you saying that because the Steelers aren't at the top of the pack statistically they don't have a legitimate shot of getting through the playoffs, getting to and winning the Super Bowl?

[GBMelBlount]

Ben was off because of poor footwork due to that high ankle sprain. That is more the cause for the lack of points than anything.

I will agree that the Steelers dont look good at finishing in the Red Zone this year, but it had nothing to do with that game as they were not there.

Can be pretty simple this upcoming draft.....pick the best available OG in the 1st round and maybe another in the 2nd.

BIN GO.

It IS that simple imo. Draft two solid lineman early and we could be set for the next few years.

It ALL starts in the trenches - with a decent line we would likely see marked improvements in ALL areas of our offense that we are complaining about.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

BIN GO.

It IS that simple imo. Draft two solid lineman early and we could be set for the next few years.

It ALL starts in the trenches - with a decent line we would likely see marked improvements in ALL areas of our offense that we are complaining about.

The only real issue with my over simplifying the draft is that........we also need to get younger at ILB, NT and FS/SS. I would love it if there was a top OG prospect there with our 1st pick, but if not, then I wont be surprised if the Steelers draft an ILB.

I'm still happy with Hampton and McClendon at NT, but if we were able to get an OG with our 1st and 4th round picks, then get a ILB and NT in rounds 2-3 that would be great. You are correct it starts in the trenches and getting 3 linemen in the 4 picks would be a plus.

[suitanim]

Added a C

We're currently #22 in offense. Since arians has been OC, the Steelers offense ranked #17, #22, #7, #14 and again #22 this season, in terms of points scored.

You could become a Pats fan if you love offense and scoring. Of course, in the same span you examined above, (where we've been to 2 Super Bowls and won one), they A) Lost to the Colts in the AFCCG, B) Lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl (Pats were #1 in scoring that year, Giants #14), C) Failed to make the playoffs, D) Lost in the WC game, and E) Lost in the divisional game.

Scoring is fine.

Winning is better.

[steelreserve]

BIN GO.

It IS that simple imo. Draft two solid lineman early and we could be set for the next few years.

It ALL starts in the trenches - with a decent line we would likely see marked improvements in ALL areas of our offense that we are complaining about.

I don't think we'll ever draft as many linemen as the people here want. It's plain that the front office has established a system for dealing with the OL: If a high-value lineman happens to fall to us in the first two rounds, we take him. If not, we take a flyer on a guy in the third or fourth round. But we don't reach and we generally don't spend more than one high-ish pick on the line. It's luck of the draw in a lot of ways, but we manage it as smartly as we can. You can say the same for other positions, like NT - it's been a need for a while, but the value hasn't been there.

I've said this before, but for OG we have a lot more options for getting a quality player than tackle or center. Guards are a lot easier and cheaper to come by in the free-agent market, or you can convert someone from another position. So-so tackles and centers often make pretty good guards, but not the other way around. It's quite possible that Colon could replace Kemo or Foster next year, for example.

In any case, we've spent a first-round pick and a second-round pick on linemen in the past two years, and we've finally got Starks in shape and playing up to his potential. What more do people expect? Everything's not always going to be perfect, and we have other problems to worry about, like finding some young stars - and I mean STARS, not just any old player - to replace Troy, Hampton and Ike.

[Dino 6 Rings]

I kind of liked the game plan used against the Rams. Very balanced attack, of running and short passing game, with about 2 or 3 deep balls mixed in as the short passing game and running game was established.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Whoever started this thread, i love how they're figuring that out just now :lol: