Harrison's Hit on Colt McCoy.... Clean or Not Clean ?

[katmandu]

I'm sitting just watched Prime Time Sanders emphatically state the case that the hit was CLEAN.

I wasn't real sure myself, until I saw the replays.

Deion pointed out that James was already committed in his move (with his head down) and Colt was actively moving and moved his helmet into the path of James helmet.

BUT! That being said we all KNOW how this will play out. GOD-ell will once again increase the amount of his coffers by reaching into James wallet.

How big will this fine be ? My guess is $25,000.

Someone post up a Video please.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Clearly not clean, from both camera angles facing Colt's face and the back of his head, that neck had some whiplash to it. It's ok, football is football.

[steelreserve]

Obviously it was a clean hit. When you take off scrambling, you become a ballcarrier. Even if you throw a pass on the run after that.

Same principle as the bullshit fine on Ryan Clark a couple weeks ago - he drilled a receiver in the head, but after the guy had caught the ball taken several steps. Helmet-to-helmet hits are not illegal against the ballcarrier, just "defenseless" receivers and the QB while trying to pass. Even the idiot commissioner knows (for now) that there's no way to avoid them all the time.

[Steelman]

25k? Nah, I'm calling north of 75k. Possible suspension. Gonna make Harrison plead his case. That's just how it works nowadays.

[stillers4me]

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1044058999/KenLaird_ESPNPgh_normal.jpgKen_Laird (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/Ken_Laird)Ken Laird



Harrison: "the hit wasn’t late, so I really don’t understand why it was called. we’ll see what transpires later on in the week."

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1044058999/KenLaird_ESPNPgh_normal.jpgKen_Laird (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/Ken_Laird)Ken Laird



#steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/search?q=%23steelers) LB James Harrison on his hit on #brown (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/search?q=%23brown) QB Colt McCoy: "from what i understand, once the QB leaves the pocket he’s a runner."

[tube517]

Harrison will be suspended and his fine will pay off the national debt.

[katmandu]

Obviously it was a clean hit. When you take off scrambling, you become a ballcarrier. Even if you throw a pass on the run after that.

Same principle as the bullshit fine on Ryan Clark a couple weeks ago - he drilled a receiver in the head, but after the guy had caught the ball taken several steps. Helmet-to-helmet hits are not illegal against the ballcarrier, just "defenseless" receivers and the QB while trying to pass. Even the idiot commissioner knows (for now) that there's no way to avoid them all the time.See, that's the point!

At what point does the QB become a ball carrier ? If he's scrambling, is that NOT running with the freaking ball ??

[katmandu]

I just saw the reply again. Colt is CLEARLY running WITH THE BALL towards James and then at the last second tosses the ball.

[steelreserve]

See, that's the point!

At what point does the QB become a ball carrier ? If he's scrambling, is that NOT running with the freaking ball ??

Yes, that's exactly what it is. They blew that call, and they blow that call consistently, not just in Steelers games. The officials have had this helmet-to-helmet stuff jammed down their throats so much that they throw a flag if a hit looks too hard, then ask questions later, by which I mean they don't ask questions; it's just a penalty. At best, the player gets some tiny vindication later if the league says it's not a fine, but -- roll the dice. I've seen them issue fines incorrectly in this situation all the same, just because the hit looks bad.

[X-Terminator]

I agree with Deion - I'm not sure what they expected Harrison to do when McCoy was running right at him and he dumped the ball off late. Plus, I also thought that once the QB left the pocket and scrambled toward the LOS, he was considered a runner and thus no flag. But he can expect at least a $50,000 fine, which to me is complete BS.

[BigNastyDefense]

They threw a flag for the exact same thing they used as an excuse not to call the same thing on Michael Vick. Once the QB leaves the pocket, he's a runner and roughing the passer is no longer a viable penalty even if he throws it.

When the put it in slow motion, it looks dirty. But in real time, Colt basically runs into Harrison who had gone into tackle mode because McCoy was scrambling. It isn't Harrison's fault that McCoy basically ran into him.

[zulater]

Fuck Roger Goodell and his evil minions who rob players of their hard earned money! It's a disgrace!

[GodfatherofSoul]

Harrison is leaning over already quite a bit to make the tackle as well. McCoy had just jumped and was coming down. But, logic doesn't apply to Herr Goodell rulings. He brings down the fine hammer whenever pocket QBs get hit too hard.

[Merchant]

Come on guys. Who are we kidding? Goodell is gonna send out a fine with the quickness.

[fansince'76]

I'll consider Harrison lucky if he's not suspended. A large fine is a foregone conclusion at this point.

[smokin3000gt]

big fine and a suspension. I will be very surprised if he's not suspended at least one game.

[zulater]

big fine and a suspension. I will be very surprised if he's not suspended at least one game.

At least one game? You're crazy, even Goodell couldn't suspend him multiple games for that hit. He'll have trouble even getting him for one game.

[steel9guy]

Of course it was an illegal hit because it was James Harrison who Roger saw do it

[Count Steeler]

Hochuli had a terrible game last night.

McCoy was out of the pocket, running towards the line of scrimmage. Harrison was attacking a runner. At the last second, McCoy opens himself up and tosses the football and then collides with Harrison, who was already in the position to tackle.

Illegal "football" hit, NO WAY! Illegal "Goodell" hit, well, he is James Harrison.

[HometownGal]

I'm not sure it was "dirty" in the true sense of the word, but imho it deserved the flag if the refs are keeping in alignment with the new "rules" this season. I'm sure they didn't want to lose their jobs or catch holy hell from the league if they didn't call that. I look for a $50,000 fine and a one or two game suspension which would totally suck with us coming down the stretch. :horror:

[GBMelBlount]

Fine and possible suspension despite the excellent points made.

[The WH]

James should just retire. This game is just too soft for him.

and I mean that as a compliment, and i'm being serious.

[86WARD]

They threw a flag for the exact same thing they used as an excuse not to call the same thing on Michael Vick. Once the QB leaves the pocket, he's a runner and roughing the passer is no longer a viable penalty even if he throws it.

When the put it in slow motion, it looks dirty. But in real time, Colt basically runs into Harrison who had gone into tackle mode because McCoy was scrambling. It isn't Harrison's fault that McCoy basically ran into him.

Winner.

[Moose]

I'm with you BigNasty on this also. I thought the same thing last night when watching the game. I think in the situation it happened it was CLEAN. McCoy started to run to the side, Harrison was coming around and thought McCoy was running so therefore went into the tackle the runner mode......McCoy seen he was going to get clocked so therefore shovel passed the ball off but his time was too late for Harrison to stick him. IF McCoy was in the pocket when Harrison laid the hit on him, then I would say it WASN'T clean. Just my opinion....but, because of the 'fairy' sport for QB's this is becoming, I see a fine and a couple game suspension for Harrison. I still love Harrison's style of play, I'm old football and I LOVE IT....the problem I see though is Harrison starting to go back in his shell has he did last year when he was hammered with fines. I thought Harrision was starting to come around again and play 'his' style of Steeler football....ugh, what a shame.

[Bluecoat96]

I don't think he'll get suspended. If Suh only gets 2 games for curb stomping a Packers O-lineman, how could James get anything other than a fine? His hit wasn't malicious in the least. I think everyone's overreacting on BOTH sides of this. IMHO.

Also, should his past fines from previous years be considered, or is the slate effectively wiped clean for each season? He's played pretty clean so far this year.

[Moose]

I don't think he'll get suspended. If Suh only gets 2 games for curb stomping a Packers O-lineman, how could James get anything other than a fine? His hit wasn't malicious in the least. I think everyone's overreacting on BOTH sides of this. IMHO.

Also, should his past fines from previous years be considered, or is the slate effectively wiped clean for each season? He's played pretty clean so far this year.
Excellent point !

[suitanim]

It was football being played the way the game was meant to be played.

That being said, 50k fine.

[fansince'76]

I don't think he'll get suspended. If Suh only gets 2 games for curb stomping a Packers O-lineman, how could James get anything other than a fine? His hit wasn't malicious in the least. I think everyone's overreacting on BOTH sides of this. IMHO.

Also, should his past fines from previous years be considered, or is the slate effectively wiped clean for each season? He's played pretty clean so far this year.

We are talking about Goodell here. Consistency is NOT part of the equation. Also factor in Harrison's offseason comments about him last Spring
(yes, along with everything else, I do think he's a vindictive asshole to boot)...

[T&B fan]

on the ass hole and ass hole show this morning ( ESPN radio ) , they stated that even if hes out of the pocked and then throws the ball hes a QB and is defenseless , there perdition is 1 game . hope its not true .

[st33lersguy]

Clearly Harrison's momentum was too much for him to stop. It is football, and this kind of stuff happens, a penalty in that situation is not fair

[whodat1]

Clearly Harrison's momentum was too much for him to stop. It is football, and this kind of stuff happens, a penalty in that situation is not fair

Ah, I see, you're trying to use logic and reason. Roger Nogoodatall does not subscribe to that philosophy.

[Dino 6 Rings]

There should be a fine for the helmet to helmet contact (that's the rule) but not a suspension because it happened while the QB was on the move and out of the pocket.

That is my guess. I'd say 30K fine. No Suspension. Done and Done.

move on.

[NJarhead]

I stopped caring. I like Colt, but screw him. Legal/Illegal, we can argue until we're blue in the face about this and every other JH hit. Facts are, he'll be labeled, once again, as dirty by the purple princess fans down in B-More and Goodell will fine him up the whazoo because it was too violent. Which leads me to my next question: Wasn't the hit on Ben (where he injured his ankle) below the knees?

[BigNastyDefense]

I stopped caring. I like Colt, but screw him. Legal/Illegal, we can argue until we're blue in the face about this and every other JH hit. Facts are, he'll be labeled, once again, as dirty by the purple princess fans down in B-More and Goodell will fine him up the whazoo because it was too violent. Which leads me to my next question: Wasn't the hit on Ben (where he injured his ankle) below the knees?

I was about to bring that up. I live in the Cleveland area, and I have been hearing all day that "the Steelers are dirty, they should be contracted, James Harrison is a dirty player who should be kicked out from the league" type stuff.

Last I checked, you can't hit a QB below the waist. It's the Tom Brady rule. Not only did Ben get hit low, he got high-lowed....where's the protection of the QB on that play?

[suitanim]

Oh, by the way, Colt McCoy went up and slapped Harrison on the helmet, and I'm guessing he said "Good hit". Ain't the kids fault...

[NJarhead]

Ah, I see, you're trying to use logic and reason. Roger Nogoodatall does not subscribe to that philosophy.

:rofl2:

[smokin3000gt]

At least one game? You're crazy, even Goodell couldn't suspend him multiple games for that hit. He'll have trouble even getting him for one game.

We're talking about the same guy that suspended a franchise QB for four games (one of them being a divisional) based on false allegations. RG doesn't know how not to over react when the spot light is shining in his eyes. In my honest opinion, I think James COULD have let up on McCoy (not that I think he should have). And like HTG said that based on today's rules in the league, helmet to helmet will draw a flag. Especially when it results in a QB rolling around on the ground. I don't think he should be fined but we all know how this is going to play out.

[smokin3000gt]

I was about to bring that up. I live in the Cleveland area, and I have been hearing all day that "the Steelers are dirty, they should be contracted, James Harrison is a dirty player who should be kicked out from the league" type stuff.

Last I checked, you can't hit a QB below the waist. It's the Tom Brady rule. Not only did Ben get hit low, he got high-lowed....where's the protection of the QB on that play?

QB rules don't apply to Big Ben for some reason. Thank God our QB is as tough as he is.

[steelreserve]

I love all the meatheads on ESPN and Yahoo saying things like "He should've just gone lower and hit him in the chest with his helmet!" Don't you realize that's how you break your own neck, idiot?

Also all the people who seem to think Harrison had plenty of time to "let up," whatever that's supposed to mean. Sure, when you have it slowed down 15x it looks like he has all day. Here in the real world, the whole thing took about an eighth of a second.

Look, if they really want to be fair and promote safety, they ought to take a lesson from baseball. Countless studies have been done about the reactions needed to hit a fastball, and they all come to the conclusion that the quickest you can react to a pitch and set a swing in motion is about a third of a second. That's just the fastest it's possible to react, and two out of three times they still miss. For people to be expecting football players to change directions in mid-air and react instantaneously, or else it's a "dirty play," is just retarded. Not even joking - you literally have to be so stupid that there's no reason to listen to what you think. These kinds of collisions are just going to happen; deal with it.

[zulater]

OK Colt leaves the pocket, so he's a runner right? And he's subject to getting hit as a runner. Anyway if we're going to call the helmet to helmet hit there, then how come when Mendy got hit with a helmet to helmet hit on the goal line stand that's ok?

[fansince'76]

QB rules don't apply to Big Ben for some reason. Thank God our QB is as tough as he is.

I'm STILL amazed he got a roughing the passer call last night.

[fansince'76]

I love all the meatheads on ESPN and Yahoo saying things like "He should've just gone lower and hit him in the chest with his helmet!" Don't you realize that's how you break your own neck, idiot?


Not to mention all the dipshits saying it was intentional.

And of course, Disney Channel II leading the charge as always (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/37577/steelers-james-harrison-just-isnt-learning)...

Written by some assclown f*cktard who was a Ravens beat writer for over a decade before joining that joke of a network. Gotta love the objectivity there. Wonder what the dickhead had to say about Ray Lewis' helmet-to-helmet hit on Hines? Probably not a goddamned word, I'm guessing.:coffee:

[zulater]

By the way it was the first and goal run by Mendenhall I'm talking about. 51 of the Browns hits Mendy straight up helmet to helmet with just as much force as Harrison used against McCoy.Launches into him in fact. No and if's or buts about it. But no one even notices.

[Bluecoat96]

Not to mention all the dipshits saying it was intentional.

And of course, Disney Channel II leading the charge as always (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/37577/steelers-james-harrison-just-isnt-learning)...

Written by some assclown f*cktard who was a Ravens beat writer for over a decade before joining that joke of a network. Gotta love the objectivity there. Wonder what the dickhead had to say about Ray Lewis' helmet-to-helmet hit on Hines? Probably not a goddamned word, I'm guessing.:coffee:

I sent that guy (Hensley) a very scathing e-mail about his blind homerism and lack of objectivity concerning this article. He does actually read and respond to a fair amount of his critics from time to time. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[X-Terminator]

Seriously, if they suspend Harrison for that hit, I will be just about done with the NFL. I have no interest in watching glorified flag football. The only reason this is being talked about is because it's James Harrison. If anyone else makes that hit, not one word would be said. And fuck BSPN while we're at it.

[steelreserve]

QB rules don't apply to Big Ben for some reason. Thank God our QB is as tough as he is.

I don't really care that Ben doesn't draw any penalties ... so much as I care that they shouldn't be calling roughing the passer more than like, once a season for a deliberate cheapshot.

[fansince'76]

Seriously, if they suspend Harrison for that hit, I will be just about done with the NFL. I have no interest in watching glorified flag football. The only reason this is being talked about is because it's James Harrison. If anyone else makes that hit, not one word would be said. And fuck BSPN while we're at it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDvi5vGsY90

Agreed. If he gets suspended for that, I'm pretty much done.

[steelreserve]

By the way it was the first and goal run by Mendenhall I'm talking about. 51 of the Browns hits Mendy straight up helmet to helmet with just as much force as Harrison used against McCoy.Launches into him in fact. No and if's or buts about it. But no one even notices.

Of course they didn't notice, because it's not a penalty. Just like Harrison's hit wasn't a penalty. Hitting the ballcarrier helmet-to-helmet is a legal play.

[katmandu]

Hochuli had a terrible game last night.

McCoy was out of the pocket, running towards the line of scrimmage. Harrison was attacking a runner. At the last second, McCoy opens himself up and tosses the football and then collides with Harrison, who was already in the position to tackle. We've all heard of "Suicide By Cop" right ??

It looked to me that Colt was trying to commit "Suicide By Harrison" !! :rofl2:

[Animal Mother]

I have 2 comments:

1. Instead of throwing it, Colt should have fell on the ground and got the hell out of Harrison's way. He asked for that hit.

2. I can't freaking believe they let Colt get back in that game.

[86WARD]

Wouldn't be surprised at all if he got a game for that hit. The NFL wants to take that shit seriously (although they let McCoy play with a concussion) so they could suspend him to make an example. I think if it's Woodley or Worilds, we are talking a different story...

[polamalubeast]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/7334851/will-nfl-suspend-james-harrison

[tube517]

I stopped caring. I like Colt, but screw him. Legal/Illegal, we can argue until we're blue in the face about this and every other JH hit. Facts are, he'll be labeled, once again, as dirty by the purple princess fans down in B-More and Goodell will fine him up the whazoo because it was too violent. Which leads me to my next question: Wasn't the hit on Ben (where he injured his ankle) below the knees?

Doesn't matter. Since it wasnt a goat loving Marsha wearing #7 and black and gold, we should expect no calls like that. :nono:

[Craic]

Last night I was livid about the penalty.

Today, after watching the replay, I can't help but notice that Harrison had a full second to recognize the pass being thrown before he got there. Had he tackled the way you're SUPPOSED to in football, head up and wrap, he would have either 1. Avoided a help to helmet or 2. Pulled up do to seeing the pass.

Do I think he is deserving of a fine, last night, no way. This morning (afternoon), yeah, probably. Once again. Form tackling instead of going for the "big hit" would have avoided it completely, IMO. Funny thing, I even started off this post arguing against the penalty, let alone a fine. But after viewing the video; taking it in real time, not the slow motion, I had to change my mind.

However, I don't like the precedent this sets either. What if that was a RB? He would also be in the motion of throwing and thus, a "passer", which is how the rulebook clarifies it. So a player can come in for a clean hit on a RB, according to the rules, not worry about helmet to helmet hits, then gets penalized because at the last moment, the RB decides to throw the ball to the TE four yards ahead of him? I don't think that's far fetched either, with the single wing back in style.

[86WARD]

Everyone always says form tackling...which isn't always possible or effective. You think a "form tackle" would take down Ben? How many tackles in a game are actual "form tackles?"

[Craic]

Everyone always says form tackling...which isn't always possible or effective. You think a "form tackle" would take down Ben? How many tackles in a game are actual "form tackles?"
Absolutely. Form tackling is the best way to take someone down because it puts the most of your mass and momentum into the other person with the least chance of being injured. If you (general you) think the guy is too big, then go low for the thighs. That is far, far away from the head. I've said it before, I believe making a rule that you must attempt to wrap on every tackle, would alleviate 95% of the head injuries and penalties, because in order to wrap, you have to keep you head up and go lower.

The problem is that this is NOT "How The Game Has Always Been Played." This is "ESPN FOOTBALL." The biggest hit gets on the highlight reel. Yeah, I watched the game growing up. I've gone back and watched our LB's of lore. There would be VERY FEW penalties of the type Harrison gets today. Why? Because even though they were brutal and hit hard, they did it with more fundamentals.

[ALLD]

1. It was a great hit.
2. McCoy was running into Harrison, but started to pull up. However, he was way out of the pocket and was running like he had the rule protection of it. In addition, Harrison could have theorhetically been run over by McCoy like Gay was by Adrian Petersen if he had not taken a defense posture- which in Harrison's case is maximum offense.
3. There was clear intention to inflict pain, but IMO he had the right.
4. I see no problem with the hit, but since it is Harrison and it was on a QB regardless of his field position- $40k fine and more fans lost.

[The Duke]

Not to mention all the dipshits saying it was intentional.

And of course, Disney Channel II leading the charge as always (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/37577/steelers-james-harrison-just-isnt-learning)...

Written by some assclown f*cktard who was a Ravens beat writer for over a decade before joining that joke of a network. Gotta love the objectivity there. Wonder what the dickhead had to say about Ray Lewis' helmet-to-helmet hit on Hines? Probably not a goddamned word, I'm guessing.:coffee:

saddest thing about that article is the poll

at least a quarter of them have some sense, but 34% want a 2 game suspension? Really?? fans are getting softer than the league itself

[Craic]

1. It was a great hit.
2. McCoy was running into Harrison, but started to pull up. However, he was way out of the pocket and was running like he had the rule protection of it. In addition, Harrison could have theorhetically been run over by McCoy like Gay was by Adrian Petersen if he had not taken a defense posture- which in Harrison's case is maximum offense.
3. There was clear intention to inflict pain, but IMO he had the right.
4. I see no problem with the hit, but since it is Harrison and it was on a QB regardless of his field position- $40k fine and more fans lost.

That is exactly how I saw it last night... but the thing that changed my mind this morning, was when I counted a full second between letting go of the ball and being hit. There is no way that James Harrison could not have avoided the hit with a full second to make a decision. It was his choice to dip his head. Had it been half a second... I'd be on the other side of this debate. But IMO, there was just too much time between letting go of the ball and being hit.

[Count Steeler]

QB leaves the pocket, running towards the line of scrimmage, defender reacts and pursues QB, defender in position to tackle, QB decides to throw the ball and leave himself vulnerable, knowing the defender is right there, ready to hit.

In real football, this is a learning experience for a young QB. He put himself in an extremely dangerous position and would have been wiser to slide and avoid being hit, then leaving himself wide open to get his head taken off. GUARANTEED, Ben would not have had the flag thrown for him.

[katmandu]

1. It was a great hit.
2. McCoy was running into Harrison, but started to pull up.

Ok folks. Here's the GIF we all wanted to see!

This GIF clearly shows Colt RUNNING with the ball (as a BALL CARRIER) taking at least (9) NINE STEPS BEFORE he runs into and James runs into Colt.

Again I say, Colt was trying to "Commit Suicide By Harrison!"

Here you go! Share this link with your other forums!

http://raysindex.com/GIFs/JH.gif

[Bluecoat96]

That is exactly how I saw it last night... but the thing that changed my mind this morning, was when I counted a full second between letting go of the ball and being hit. There is no way that James Harrison could not have avoided the hit with a full second to make a decision. It was his choice to dip his head. Had it been half a second... I'd be on the other side of this debate. But IMO, there was just too much time between letting go of the ball and being hit.

Sorry Preach, but I have to disagree. If James is running at full speed, it was not enough time to react. IMHO of course. If you look at the GIF above my post, it's BARELY a 1/2 second of time between throw and collision by James.

[O'Malley]

Ben got hurt so James paid them back... Clean hit, he was running and about an inch from the line of scrimmage... It's football last time I checked... Colt should know better then to run to his right and in to James Harrisons territory...

[smokin3000gt]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/7334851/will-nfl-suspend-james-harrison

Take a look at the poll..

http://a.espncdn.com/prod/assets/header_sportsnation_gry.gif (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/)How should the NFL react to James Harrison's helmet-to-helmet hit on Colt McCoy?





13%

Fine of less than $100,000


7%

Fine of $100,000 or more


22%

Suspend him one game


34%

Suspend him at least two games


24%

No extra punishment

Are you kidding me? A fine over $100k? AT LEAST a two game suspension? Maybe the reason the NFL is turning in to a bitch league is because the majority of the fans are pussies.

[43Hitman]

If Colt McCoy closes his eyes a second before impact, who's to say that James isn't either? How is he supposed to change aim points with his eyes closed?

[Count Steeler]

This is such bogus bull shit. What about the helmet to helmet on Mendy on the first of 4 tries at the goal line? If Mendy was a QB would people take notice? This is not only bull shit, this is horse shit.

[stillers4me]

The only crime commited in that game was the Browns putting Mccoy back into the game. When they panned in on him before they snapped the ball, I said to Russ, "that kid doesn't even know where he is". He could have been killed on that last sack.

Everyone needs to come to grips that most of the damage done on a football field is done in legal hits. The refs need to stop reacting to the result of a hit, and only throw the flag based on the hit itself, not the result of one.

[tihmtahm]

I used to laugh when old geezers would tell me, "Football was a better game back in my day!" Now I'm a lot older and I'm here to tell ya... "Football was a better game back in my day!" It's no longer a "man's" game.

[XxKnightxX]

Its a lateral throw, hes running and aiming past the line of scrimmage. Man Im done arguing, just fucking hit the guy and blow his knees out.

[O'Malley]

I used to laugh when old geezers would tell me, "Football was a better game back in my day!" Now I'm a lot older and I'm here to tell ya... "Football was a better game back in my day!" It's no longer a "man's" game.

^This!!!!

Our country is full of pussies and they think football is too dangerous and violent.... These players don't have to play football, and these pussies don't have to watch it either!!!

[O'Malley]

Its a lateral throw, hes running and aiming past the line of scrimmage. Man Im done arguing, just fucking hit the guy and blow his knees out.

But hitting low is so safe!!!:sarcasm:

[86WARD]

Absolutely. Form tackling is the best way to take someone down because it puts the most of your mass and momentum into the other person with the least chance of being injured. If you (general you) think the guy is too big, then go low for the thighs. That is far, far away from the head. I've said it before, I believe making a rule that you must attempt to wrap on every tackle, would alleviate 95% of the head injuries and penalties, because in order to wrap, you have to keep you head up and go lower.

The problem is that this is NOT "How The Game Has Always Been Played." This is "ESPN FOOTBALL." The biggest hit gets on the highlight reel. Yeah, I watched the game growing up. I've gone back and watched our LB's of lore. There would be VERY FEW penalties of the type Harrison gets today. Why? Because even though they were brutal and hit hard, they did it with more fundamentals.

Form tackling doesn't work when a guy is stiff arming you to the ground or side stepping. It's great if a guy is coming straight at you or you're practicing on a dummy...lol. It's not always the greatest thing in a game situation and those that say it is have never played the game at full speed.

So pretty much having to attempt to wrap eliminates a player like Troy Polamalu from the league...

[steelreserve]

Are you kidding me? A fine over $100k? AT LEAST a two game suspension? Maybe the reason the NFL is turning in to a bitch league is because the majority of the fans are pussies.

I've been saying for a couple years how unfortunate it is that, for a lot of fans, bitching about the officiating and complaining for a flag takes up an equal amount of time as rooting for your team. If not the majority of time. They buy right into all these horseshit rules without even thinking. Lawyerball. Horseshit.


Also, I do have to point out how funny it is that in the animated GIF, Harrison is just a blur when he comes into the picture. Yeah, he had tons of time to react and let up, the old meanie.

[silver & black]

Seriously, if they suspend Harrison for that hit, I will be just about done with the NFL. I have no interest in watching glorified flag football. The only reason this is being talked about is because it's James Harrison. If anyone else makes that hit, not one word would be said. And fuck BSPN while we're at it.

Oh, I can think of another player that would get "punched" up for it. :chuckle:

[steelreserve]

Hmm, how about this. I found a clip of last night's hit as seen through the eyes of Roger Goodell. Maybe that explains it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSBtBSLlr6w

[SteelerFanInStl]

Seriously, if they suspend Harrison for that hit, I will be just about done with the NFL. I have no interest in watching glorified flag football. The only reason this is being talked about is because it's James Harrison. If anyone else makes that hit, not one word would be said. And fuck BSPN while we're at it.

Yep. I was thinking the same thing last night after the game when they were saying that he's gonna get suspended. Complete bullshit. Only in today's glorified flag football NFL is a defender supposed to be able to stop on a dime and gently lay a QB down on the turf.

[Craic]

Form tackling doesn't work when a guy is stiff arming you to the ground or side stepping. It's great if a guy is coming straight at you or you're practicing on a dummy...lol. It's not always the greatest thing in a game situation and those that say it is have never played the game at full speed.

So pretty much having to attempt to wrap eliminates a player like Troy Polamalu from the league...

Really? Seems there are many guys like Troy that play professional Rugby. They have the same rule there, and yes, they stiff arm in rugby - and don't give me the crap about football being a tougher sport. We had people on scholarships to play football that would come out during our spring season in Rugby... and quit after one game because they couldn't hack it.

Do you really think that Troy has no talent... and can only get on an NFL team because the rules say he can hit without wrapping? If Deon Sanders can play in this league without even knowing how to tackle. . . .

[Count Steeler]

Don't forget last year when Harrison "wrapped" the Oakland QB and planted him. Harrison still got a penalty for landing with the "full weight of his body".

[X-Terminator]

Are you kidding me? A fine over $100k? AT LEAST a two game suspension? Maybe the reason the NFL is turning in to a bitch league is because the majority of the fans are pussies.

It's the pussification of society coupled with biased ratings whores on TV and online that's causing all of this whining and crying. Thanks to these candy asses, my two favorite sports are headed straight down the shitter. It's FOOTBALL, you (general you) bunch of pussies. If you don't like it, watch Oprah or Glee and cry to your heart's content.

[katmandu]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/leagues-explanation-of-hit-on-mccoy-doesnt-bode-well-for-harrison/
(http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/leagues-explanation-of-hit-on-mccoy-doesnt-bode-well-for-harrison/)
HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK

(3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET

(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.

[NCSteeler]

The only crime commited in that game was the Browns putting Mccoy back into the game. When they panned in on him before they snapped the ball, I said to Russ, "that kid doesn't even know where he is". He could have been killed on that last sack.

Everyone needs to come to grips that most of the damage done on a football field is done in legal hits. The refs need to stop reacting to the result of a hit, and only throw the flag based on the hit itself, not the result of one.

To me that is the bigger story and should draw a fine for the team or a least a good stern talkign to

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/37621/will-fathers-criticism-affect-mccoys-future


"He never should've gone back in the game,'' Brad McCoy told The Cleveland Plain Dealer. "He was basically out [cold] after the hit. You could tell by the ridigity of his body as he was laying there. There were a lot of easy symptoms that should've told them he had a concussion. He was nauseated and he didn't know who he was. From what I could see, they didn't test him for a concussion on the sidelines. They looked at his [left] hand.''

[NCSteeler]

Take a look at the poll..

http://a.espncdn.com/prod/assets/header_sportsnation_gry.gif (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/)How should the NFL react to James Harrison's helmet-to-helmet hit on Colt McCoy?





13%

Fine of less than $100,000


7%

Fine of $100,000 or more


22%

Suspend him one game


34%

Suspend him at least two games


24%

No extra punishment

Are you kidding me? A fine over $100k? AT LEAST a two game suspension? Maybe the reason the NFL is turning in to a bitch league is because the majority of the fans are pussies.

Just remember a huge portion of the people reading AFC North Blog are Steeler haters and would vote your Grandma a suspension if they knew she was a Steeler fan.

BTW, James Walker used to write pretty good stuff for the blog. But check out the humor piece by the new guy

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/31604/ravens-rarely-suffer-letdowns

[Craic]

It's the pussification of society coupled with biased ratings whores on TV and online that's causing all of this whining and crying. Thanks to these candy asses, my two favorite sports are headed straight down the shitter. It's FOOTBALL, you (general you) bunch of pussies. If you don't like it, watch Oprah or Glee and cry to your heart's content.

In general I completely agree with you. For instance in hockey (I assume that's what you're talking about), the "no fighting" rules, including the instigator penalty and the "first man out" penalty have really cheapened the game. People don't realize the rule changes have actually made the sport more dangerous - something my best friend who used to ref is still ticked about (he reffed up through Major Junior).

IMO, the same thing has happened in football. They moved the kickoffs back to the 30 for ratings. Then, when they realized that it caused more injuries, they went back to the old rules. They free up receivers so that there's no touching beyond the 5 yards, for all practical purposes, then are "surprised" when all of a sudden, safeties are able to take big shots at them. Well, that's what happens when you turn the game into a track meet. Bigger bodies + faster speeds + rules against inhibiting the speeds = bigger collisions.

I think what we see in this chart however, is more hatred against the Steelers. Personally, I voted in it and said "Less than 100,000" and actually believe, considering the rule and the circumstances and the fact that he's gone almost all year without problems, that he should get less than a 10,000 fine. More like a 5000 fine. Just enough to remind him that there are no such thing as "free shots" anymore. You have to play with your head up and if there is enough time for a QB to fully complete his throwing motion, there is enough time for the LB to realize that he is once again a QB and not hit him in the helmet with his head.

[The WH]

but it wasn't a throwing motion, it was a snap-toss, as if he was passing a basketball.

[BlacknGoldBabe]

Too damn bad the fans can't fine Goodell for being an asswipe :frusty:

[HometownGal]

Too damn bad the fans can't fine Goodell for being an asswipe :frusty:

LMFAO!!! :lol: :lol: Damned straight sistah! :drink:

[Austin87]

Seemed like a good solid hit by James Harrison. He shouldn't get fined.

[86WARD]

So at what point do you say a passer is a rusher and a rusher a passer. That's a question that needs to be addressed. However, helmet to helmet is helmet to helmet and fineable.

[Count Steeler]

So at what point do you say a passer is a rusher and a rusher a passer. That's a question that needs to be addressed. However, helmet to helmet is helmet to helmet and fineable.

Unless you are a running back. The hit on Mendy was clearly a helmet to helmet. No flag was thrown, and I doubt there will be a fine.

[86WARD]

So if a RB takes a direct snap and a hit behind the line...fineable? He was playing the QB position.

[SteelerFanInStl]

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET

(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers. [/INDENT]

Colt didn't do this. He didn't stop and he didn't clearly establish a passing posture. He was running with the ball and then, while still running, he jumped up and threw the ball right before getting hit by James.

[ALLD]

How come the guy that took out Ben's ankle was not flagged? There is not even talk of a fine and he clearly hit Ben below the knee! Double-standard.

[zulater]

Of course they didn't notice, because it's not a penalty. Just like Harrison's hit wasn't a penalty. Hitting the ballcarrier helmet-to-helmet is a legal play.

I understand that. But doesn't this go to establish the hypocrisy of the NFL? Either that or prove how they outright lie and deceive when it comes to the issue of player safety in regards to helmet to helmet hits. I mean anyone go and watch that first and goal play with Mendy and tell me how his safety wasn't compromised just as much as Colt McCoy or any "defenseless" receiver?

In my opinion the new rules have been established for the main reason of promoting the passing game. Goodell's vision of football is a glorified Arena league with 800 yards of combined offense and 70+ points per game. Running backs aren't protected because they slow down the track meet.

[tube517]

So if a RB takes a direct snap and a hit behind the line...fineable? He was playing the QB position.

If it was Mendy taking the snap, the defensive player could've speared him after the whistle and not gotten a flag or fine.

[zulater]

I'm sitting just watched Prime Time Sanders emphatically state the case that the hit was CLEAN.

I wasn't real sure myself, until I saw the replays.

Deion pointed out that James was already committed in his move (with his head down) and Colt was actively moving and moved his helmet into the path of James helmet.

BUT! That being said we all KNOW how this will play out. GOD-ell will once again increase the amount of his coffers by reaching into James wallet.

How big will this fine be ? My guess is $25,000.



Someone post up a Video please.

Good find, thanks for posting it! :thumbsup:

[slippy]

i wish harrison would just break two or three ribs and put the other player out for four weeks instead of this concussion bs.

[Craic]

So at what point do you say a passer is a rusher and a rusher a passer. That's a question that needs to be addressed. However, helmet to helmet is helmet to helmet and fineable.

And that, beyond anything and everything else, is eventually the last word in this discussion.

[Craic]

I understand that. But doesn't this go to establish the hypocrisy of the NFL? Either that or prove how they outright lie and deceive when it comes to the issue of player safety in regards to helmet to helmet hits. I mean anyone go and watch that first and goal play with Mendy and tell me how his safety wasn't compromised just as much as Colt McCoy or any "defenseless" receiver?

In my opinion the new rules have been established for the main reason of promoting the passing game. Goodell's vision of football is a glorified Arena league with 800 yards of combined offense and 70+ points per game. Running backs aren't protected because they slow down the track meet.

I think the distinction their making is that a player who is actively running with the ball is able to account for the players around him, and should also be able to see them coming. However, a QB looking down the field, or a receiver looking back for the ball or in the process of catching it, cannot legitimately be expected to account for everyone around him.

Whterh that is true or not, I don't know, nor do I necessarily agree. But when I read the rules - or at least what is provided for us, that is the conclusion I come to.

I think another thing the NFL needs to do, is release the rule book for the fans to read. Put it in a PDF on the website, or heck, even offer it for sale through the NFL shop. It'll solve a lot of back and forth and people arguing what was or was not a penalty. Cough, Seahawks TD taken away in the 05 SB - read the rules, that was a penalty, Cough.

[stillers4me]

Clearly not clean, from both camera angles facing Colt's face and the back of his head, that neck had some whiplash to it. It's ok, football is football.

Just becase a hit looks bad or sounds bad doesn't necessarily make it a flagable hit. Unfortunately, the refs are throwing flags based on the result of a hit before they even think about whether it was legal or not. Plenty of injuries happen with good, clean hits.

[The WH]

This season has had so many injuries to so many key players I think someone in New York needs to realize that they can't rule-away injuries.

[zulater]

If you got rid of helmets you wouldn't have any more helmet to helmet hits. :chuckle:

[ALLD]

It would be easier just to Red Shirt all Goodell favorite QBs so there would be no controversey.

[katmandu]

So at what point do you say a passer is a rusher and a rusher a passer. That's a question that needs to be addressed. Read my last posting in this thread. I copied the NFL Rulings on this issue and Posted it.


PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET

(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.

[katmandu]

I think another thing the NFL needs to do, is release the rule book for the fans to read. Put it in a PDF on the website, I've Posted a Link to the Rules, Copied the part that applies here in this thread already AND in a separate (related) posting.

Here it is once again...

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf

[The WH]

It would be easier just to Red Shirt all Goodell favorite QBs so there would be no controversey.

Colt friggin' McCoy is HARDLY in that club.

[O'Malley]

Unless you are a running back. The hit on Mendy was clearly a helmet to helmet. No flag was thrown, and I doubt there will be a fine.

That is what I don't get... Running backs are not protected you can hit them helmet to helmet, same with linemen they hit helmet to helmet every play... I guess what their really saying is the only people really protected are QB's and Wr's not wearing black and gold....

[zulater]

Just rewatching the game, and early in the 2nd quarter Antonio Brown got hit by a helmet to helmet hit from 28 of the Browns. I remember at the time I wondered about it, but the tv crew never mentioned so I forgot about it until just now. Anyway first play of the second quarter, it was without question a helmet to helmet hit on a "defenseless receiver".

[NCSteeler]

In general I completely agree with you. For instance in hockey (I assume that's what you're talking about), the "no fighting" rules, including the instigator penalty and the "first man out" penalty have really cheapened the game. People don't realize the rule changes have actually made the sport more dangerous - something my best friend who used to ref is still ticked about (he reffed up through Major Junior).

IMO, the same thing has happened in football. They moved the kickoffs back to the 30 for ratings. Then, when they realized that it caused more injuries, they went back to the old rules. They free up receivers so that there's no touching beyond the 5 yards, for all practical purposes, then are "surprised" when all of a sudden, safeties are able to take big shots at them. Well, that's what happens when you turn the game into a track meet. Bigger bodies + faster speeds + rules against inhibiting the speeds = bigger collisions.

I think what we see in this chart however, is more hatred against the Steelers. Personally, I voted in it and said "Less than 100,000" and actually believe, considering the rule and the circumstances and the fact that he's gone almost all year without problems, that he should get less than a 10,000 fine. More like a 5000 fine. Just enough to remind him that there are no such thing as "free shots" anymore. You have to play with your head up and if there is enough time for a QB to fully complete his throwing motion, there is enough time for the LB to realize that he is once again a QB and not hit him in the helmet with his head.

My only disagreement here, is that head to head collisions are almost always called when they tackle head up, facemask to facemask. The way they are supposed to.

[Craic]

My only disagreement here, is that head to head collisions are almost always called when they tackle head up, facemask to facemask. The way they are supposed to.

I understand what you're saying. I think I was saying in the context of my quote however (it may not have been clear, sorry if it wasn't), that he has to play with his head up so that he can see what's happening. He has to see if the QB is throwing the ball or not.

[Craic]

I've Posted a Link to the Rules, Copied the part that applies here in this thread already AND in a separate (related) posting.

Here it is once again...

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf

WHen the HECK did they do that? I have searched time and again for the rule book and NEVER could find it. I saw what you were quoting, but thought it was coming off one of those "Rules Digest" pages the NFL has (had?). Very good find.

[zulater]

Sadly I now believe Harrison will get at least a 1 game suspension. In large part I believe this because we played a Thursday night game, which gave the press a full 4 days to vilify James, which in turn will be all the enabling Goodell will require to do wrong by Harrison once again. Trial by press is usually a loser for the player. Sad that the NFL succumbs to such bullshit.

One last thing. For those that vilify James, they keep saying he hasn't learned. That he hasn't even attempted to adjust his game. Well if that's the case what happened on all the other hits he made over the course of the first 3 months of the season? This is the first time this year, a full 13 games in mind you, where there's even been a hint that James strayed over the lines. You want to reference past "misdeeds", well those transgressions were thought to be legal by James and many if not most NFL people when they occurred last year, the NFL changed the rules on the fly and punished retroactively. That really shouldn't be used against him.

Anyway to me it's a crime if Harrison has to sit against the 49ers. It's borderline game fixing if you ask me. I'd love someone to sue Goodell and the NFL for racketeering and conspiracy to alter a sporting event.

[tube517]

Colt friggin' McCoy is HARDLY in that club.

He doesn't wear a Steeler uniform so he's automatically in.

[polamalubeast]

JasonLaCanforaJason La Canfora


https://twitter.com/#!/jasonlacanfora


The possibility of a suspension for James Harrison is very real. My hunch is it ends up a six-figure fine. Review process begins Monday

[SteelerFanInStl]

JasonLaCanforaJason La Canfora

https://twitter.com/#!/jasonlacanfora

The possibility of a suspension for James Harrison is very real. My hunch is it ends up a six-figure fine. Review process begins Monday

A 6 figure fine and suspension is absolute stupidity for that hit.

[fansince'76]

One last thing. For those that vilify James, they keep saying he hasn't learned.

And the charge I've read from many of the same people saying that Harrison hasn't learned that he "launched" himself into McCoy is a crock of shit too.

[steelerdude15]

I'm so frustrated with all this bullshit. You can't do anything anymore if you're a defender. It's so fucking amazing how much protection quarterbacks get these days. You might as well make it where they can't be touched at all. I'm starting to get sick and tired of the NFL and the way it's heading.

[steelerdude15]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/7334851/will-nfl-suspend-james-harrison
Of course the lovely media in this country has to sit there and make him into such a bad person. I hate the American media with such a burning passion. :mad:

[fansince'76]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/7334851/will-nfl-suspend-james-harrison
Of course the lovely media in this country has to sit there and make him into such a bad person. I hate the American media with such a burning passion. :mad:

It's quite telling that the "would you want Harrison on your team?" poll on that page has 2/3 of the respondents saying they would...

[fansince'76]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/7334851/will-nfl-suspend-james-harrison

The comments section on that page was chock full of pearls of ignorance as well. To wit:


Harrison closed on a QB who didn't have the ball, hit him in open space, helmet to helmet, and gave him a concussion. Three things. 1)Eventually somebody is going to die from this and the sport we love is going to be shut down by it. 2)The foul gave an illicit advantage to the team of the man who committed the foul. McCoy was concussed and showed it when he came back in and threw the pick, whereas before he was moving the team. 3)Harrison had an incentive to do it--it changed the game. McCoy was doing well, moving the ball. After the concussion, he played differently and in fact threw the pick that ended the game.

What game was this asshat watching? Seneca Wallace came in and in the brief time he was on the field, was MORE EFFECTIVE THAN MCCOY. Dipshit. :doh:

And of course not a goddamned word about the Browns BREAKING NFL RULES by allowing McCoy to go back on the field when his bell was CLEARLY rung.

I'm tired of the powers that be of the league continuing to ruin the game by catering to the lowest common denominator like this fool.

[katmandu]

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by 86WARD http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php?p=240085#post240085)
So at what point do you say a passer is a rusher and a rusher a passer.

That's a question that needs to be addressed.I too would like to hear this debate.

[X-Terminator]

It's quite telling that the "would you want Harrison on your team?" poll on that page has 2/3 of the respondents saying they would...

Which means that this campaign against Harrison is 100% media driven, and that 1/3 of the fans fall for it. There is no way - NO WAY - that Harrison should be suspended for that hit. If they do, the first question I'd ask is why Dunta Robinson wasn't suspended this season for the exact same hit he made last year that kicked off all of this bullshit in the first place.

[tube517]

JasonLaCanforaJason La Canfora


https://twitter.com/#!/jasonlacanfora


The possibility of a suspension for James Harrison is very real. My hunch is it ends up a six-figure fine. Review process begins Monday


F Jason LaCanfora. He's worthless piece of monkey crap and nobody cares about his rooty poo candy ass

[7SteelGal43]

In a world where Goodell dresses the players in panties and uniforms are made of marshallow fluff to soften the blow, not clean.

In a world where real men are allowed to play football the way it was meant to be played, clean...........and AWESOME !!!!!

[JayC]

when goodell gets even more power he will kick the steelers out of the nfl for hitting to hard and set up for a rule for the pats to get a 28-0 head start before each game

[Chidi29]

I'm not going to get into the details of the hit because it is such a multi-layered incident (runnver vs QB, rules of out of the pocket QBs, etc).

I will say that regardless of the punishment, because there will be some sort of consequence, that Harrison's past comments showing his disrespect for Goodell and his rules are not going to do him any favors. I've said that once he made them over the summer. I have to think that Harrison's punishments are a bit self-inflicted because of the things he has said ("wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire", calling him a gay slur).

I think a suspension is pretty hefty and a scary precedent and don't want to see it happen as both as a football fan and based on what I saw from the hit (don't believe the intent was malicious) but a fine is just and I put trust in former defensive players like Merton Hanks to help come up with an appropiate number.

[zulater]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7341324/ban-being-mulled-pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-source-says

Done deal, he's getting suspended, just a matter of whether it's for 1 or 2 games. Of course it doesn't matter if it's 2 as we hopefully can handle the Rams without him. But to me it's all but game fixing taking him away from the Steelers for the 49'er game. I said it before and I'll say it again, the fact that it happened on a stand alone Thursday game essentially gave the press 4 days to try and pronounce sentence on James before it ever crossed Goodell's desk. Which in turn is all the enabling that piece of shit Goodell needs to come down with full force against his favorite target James Harrison.

Had that hit occurred on a normal Sunday game it likely only amounts to a fine in my opinion. The press gave Goodell the wind in his sails to unfairly punish Harrison once again.

[katmandu]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7341324/ban-being-mulled-pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-source-says

Done deal, he's getting suspended, It is NOT A DONE DEAL YET !!!

Read the WHOLE article !

The NFL is considering suspending Pittsburgh Steelers (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers) linebacker James Harrison (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/4433/james-harrison) one or two games for his helmet-to-helmet hit on Cleveland Browns (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-browns) quarterback Colt McCoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13199/colt-mccoy), according to an NFL source.
The debate about whether Harrison will be suspended will continue at NFL offices Monday morning. But at the very least, he will be hit with a hefty fine for his latest controversial hit

[zulater]

It is NOT A DONE DEAL YET !!!

Read the WHOLE article !

I read the whole article. That was a leak from the league office, a trial balloon so to speak to determine whether they give him one or two games. He will be suspended. I'd bet my house on it. Though since I haven't, I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not.

[GodfatherofSoul]

These leaks are just Goodell media whoring. He leaks this shit to see what the sports media will say then makes his decision. If there was wild disagreement with him, he'd back down like he's done before.

[The WH]

The NFL doesn't leak stuff unless they are testing reaction to it. 31/32's of the fan bases in the NFL are all for it. and 99.999 percent of the sports stations are for it. All Pittsburgh has is Deion Sanders. whoopeeee

James is going to be sitting next to Ben next week while the Steelers eat the 49's for a mid-monday-night snack.

[fansince'76]

It is NOT A DONE DEAL YET !!!

Read the WHOLE article !

The NFL is considering suspending Pittsburgh Steelers (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers) linebacker James Harrison (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/4433/james-harrison) one or two games for his helmet-to-helmet hit on Cleveland Browns (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-browns) quarterback Colt McCoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13199/colt-mccoy), according to an NFL source.
The debate about whether Harrison will be suspended will continue at NFL offices Monday morning. But at the very least, he will be hit with a hefty fine for his latest controversial hit


It's a done deal, pretty much. The media has been all over this since Thursday, and since Goodell is up the media's ass almost as much as he is the owners' (well, Kraft's, anyway), well...

[zulater]

http://news.yahoo.com/steelers-harrison-magazine-goodell-devil-100235999.html


If the Steelers had defeated the Green Bay Packers in the Super Bowl, Harrison said, he would have whispered in Goodell's ear during the trophy ceremony: "Why don't you quit and do something else, like start your own league in flag football?":gossip:

:rofl2:

James had it right all along. Sorry for ever doubting him .

[fansince'76]

One other thing - I'm curious to know what sanctions are being discussed against the Browns, since they let an "obviously concussed" player back onto the field? What about all this BS about "player safety" there? All I keep hearing about is what a thug Harrison supposedly is and how he should be run out of the league.

Oh, that's right, the media isn't harping incessantly on that, so Goodell will conveniently "overlook" it. My bad. :coffee:

[zulater]

I want to know if the helmet to helmet hit by Usama Young against Antoine Brown will draw a fine? Or do only the hits the network yelps about get punished. ( he launched and hit facemask to facemask, first play of the 4th quarter. And of course it went unflagged)

[Animal Mother]

I didn't realize it before until it was mentioned on this board about the Roethlisberger knee hit, and then I saw the replay, that guy dove basically right at his knee. I don't even think if the Harrison hit didn't happen that that hit would have been mentioned as far as a fineable or suspendable play.

[The WH]

I didn't realize it before until it was mentioned on this board about the Roethlisberger knee hit, and then I saw the replay, that guy dove basically right at his knee. I don't even think if the Harrison hit didn't happen that that hit would have been mentioned as far as a fineable or suspendable play.

link?

(OSMB'd)

[Animal Mother]

link?

(OSMB'd)



http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d824df187/Big-Ben-hurt

keep your eye on #69

[86WARD]

2 games would be ridiculous.

ANyone see the hit on Gronkowski today? Same hit that McCoy took...no flag...lol.

[steelreserve]

If Goodell keeps transforming the game with this strategy ... sorry, someone already has that niche taken:

http://www.lflus.com/

[NCSteeler]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d824df187/Big-Ben-hurt

keep your eye on #69

No doubt the guy lunged at his knees. Have not heard any talk about the guy that club Ben in the head either.

[Craic]

No doubt the guy lunged at his knees. Have not heard any talk about the guy that club Ben in the head either.

He didn't even contact the knee.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll59/meraby/Capture.jpg

[The WH]

Gronkowski....not a QB.

Should Harrison should have just speared McCoy? Would that have been a better option?

[Craic]

Gronkowski....not a QB.

Should Harrison should have just speared McCoy? Would that have been a better option?

My guess would be, with as much time as he had, to simply not hit the QB since he had already finished his throwing motion before contact was made.

[zulater]

My guess would be, with as much time as he had, to simply not hit the QB since he had already finished his throwing motion before contact was made.

So if it were your decision you would suspend Harrison?

[Bluecoat96]

My guess would be, with as much time as he had, to simply not hit the QB since he had already finished his throwing motion before contact was made.

He had a 1/2 freaking second!!! How is that enough time?

[86WARD]

Gronkowski....not a QB.

Should Harrison should have just speared McCoy? Would that have been a better option?

Doesn't matter. He was as defenseless as McCoy. Position doesn't matter in that case. If anything, Gronkowski was more defenseless than McCoy.

[Bluecoat96]

I think what really peeves me off about all of this is the homer haters out there that label Harrison as a head hunter because of literally one out of hundreds of plays James has made this year. He had been pretty much clean as a whistle up to this past week. GRRRR....:upyours:

[fansince'76]

I think what really peeves me off about all of this is the homer haters out there that label Harrison as a head hunter because of literally one out of hundreds of plays James has made this year. He had been pretty much clean as a whistle up to this past week. GRRRR....:upyours:

Not only that, but I thought NFL discipline wasn't supposed to be cumulative over multiple seasons? That once a new season began, a player's slate was wiped clean? Doesn't appear so in this case. But then, we all knew better than that, didn't we?

[Bluecoat96]

If he gets suspended, I truly think it will serve as a rallying cry for the rest of the Steelers D. I bet they play out of their minds.

[fansince'76]

I will say that regardless of the punishment, because there will be some sort of consequence, that Harrison's past comments showing his disrespect for Goodell and his rules are not going to do him any favors. I've said that once he made them over the summer. I have to think that Harrison's punishments are a bit self-inflicted because of the things he has said ("wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire", calling him a gay slur).

That has no bearing as to what happens on the field and a collision which occurred 8-9 months later, and if it is still part of Goodell's consideration of the matter, then he is every bit the vindictive POS I've accused him of being.

[katmandu]

It's quite telling that the "would you want Harrison on your team?" poll on that page has 2/3 of the respondents saying they would...All that means is that the minority 33% that don't want Harrison on their team are JEALOUS because he NEVER will be ! LMAO !

[Animal Mother]

I have a suggestion for James Harrison. He has claimed he won't alter his tackling style no matter what, but I would just suggest he aims a little lower. I think the league has seen the damage that repeated hits to the head have caused in its retired players and are especially sensitive to those types of hits lately. If he would have dove at McCoy's legs or midsection, it would have been no less violent a hit, but not a fineable or suspendable hit. In fact, the whiplash or ground impact may have induced a concussion anyway and this way, Colt could not have made it back on the field due to the fact that his lungs would have collapsed or his legs would need to be reattached after the lower sections still attached to his cleats remained on the field.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The conspiracy theory Peter King haters should check out CNNSI MMQB column. Peter King thinks that Harrison was justified in hitting McCoy, but thinks the helmet to helmet shot wasnt justified.

No suspension is warranted but probably a fine for the helmet to helmet hit.

[suitanim]

The conspiracy theory Peter King haters should check out CNNSI MMQB column. Peter King thinks that Harrison was justified in hitting McCoy, but thinks the helmet to helmet shot wasnt justified.

No suspension is warranted but probably a fine for the helmet to helmet hit.

And that is probably exactly how it's going to go down.

[43Hitman]

I'll be really surprised if he is suspended for that hit, provided the circumstances. Had McCoy been in the pocket when that hit took place then Harrison would definitely be taking a vacation.

[steelreserve]

One thing about this "fixing the game" idea ... we don't really need Harrison against the 49ers. Alex Smith flat-out sucks. He ought to fold up like a cheap card table agianst any D that's halfway decent. We will be fine.

[steelreserve]

I have a suggestion for James Harrison. He has claimed he won't alter his tackling style no matter what, but I would just suggest he aims a little lower. I think the league has seen the damage that repeated hits to the head have caused in its retired players and are especially sensitive to those types of hits lately. If he would have dove at McCoy's legs or midsection, it would have been no less violent a hit, but not a fineable or suspendable hit. In fact, the whiplash or ground impact may have induced a concussion anyway and this way, Colt could not have made it back on the field due to the fact that his lungs would have collapsed or his legs would need to be reattached after the lower sections still attached to his cleats remained on the field.

One question: How many of those players are QBs or WRs? One more reason to be frustrated with these idiot rules. They're protecting the wrong guys.

[Animal Mother]

One question: How many of those players are QBs or WRs? One more reason to be frustrated with these idiot rules. They're protecting the wrong guys.

Great point. Seems like they are protecting the guys that make them the most money.

[The WH]

shhhh Steelreserve...if you speak logiv the NFL will send it's mafia to whack you.

[Dino 6 Rings]

hey, is anyone paying attention to the lower leg injuries occuring this year because of hitting low instead of head hunting? How many broken legs, busted ankles and destroyed knees have happened this year?

[steelreserve]

hey, is anyone paying attention to the lower leg injuries occuring this year because of hitting low instead of head hunting? How many broken legs, busted ankles and destroyed knees have happened this year?

I don't know, but it would be pretty ironic if it happened to Tom Brady, thanks to a rule that was designed specifically to protect pussies like him.

[kittenfantastico76]

I'm still on a bit of a fence about all these new rules but I will say this, I was impressed to see the exchange on the field between Harrison and McCoy. I believe Harrison was saying Sorry for the rough hit, and McCoy tapped his helmet as if to say "It's Cool". McCoy is a newb and I'm sure it shook him up... trust me if I was a football player, new or old I'd run like hell from Harrison w/out a doubt. If you see him coming for you, you have three choices... get rid of the ball, run like hell, or drop to the ground and pray he misses you. ;)

[kittenfantastico76]

I don't know, but it would be pretty ironic if it happened to Tom Brady, thanks to a rule that was designed specifically to protect pussies like him. This post needs a HUGE "LIKE" button!

[The WH]

I don't think the issue is protect "pussies" as much is it is to protect big $ draws

[steelreserve]

I don't think the issue is protect "pussies" as much is it is to protect big $ draws

Well, since so many of those guys are pussies, it all works out the same, now doesn't it?

Or maybe it's just a few like Brady that are pussies, and the rule is just at the lowest common denominator. Point is, if all the golden-boy QBs would just shut up and learn how to take a hit like a man and move on (like a certain Steelers QB) ... and if the owners would just accept that shit happens and changing the rules doesn't really do much to affect that ... then the game would not have devolved into this sorry state.

[The WH]

Oddly enough, what big money QB was taken out the warrant all these dumb rules? None.

They are being ridiculously, and inappropriately proactive.

They big suits need to invest their money in finding new technology to save the post-NFL lives of Offensive and Defensive lineman.

Not even in the 70's were big money QB's even getting killed. It was warriors like Mike Webster, rest his soul, that were getting their brains bashed in. Just look at where those WR's and QB's are...and look at where the Offensive lineman that were helping make them famous are.

[SteelMember]

The precedent has been set. It will be a fine.

And if anyone saw the Pats game, you'll know that Brady has taken it even a step further. He was hit on a play when "attempting" to slide. His ass didn't even hit the ground yet when he was hit. Penalty on the play. Roughing the passer... Bullshit!

[Craic]

So if it were your decision you would suspend Harrison?

No, as I said before. This is the first time this year that it happened. It also was not the same as a QB in a pocket. I do think those are mitigating circumstances. Also, he WAS a runner and the biggest problem here, IMO, was that Harrison treated him like a runner even when he became a passer again (which is how the league is going to look at it, even though he didn't set his feet). If it was my decision, I'd think about the late hit (see below), and the fact that with the ball being thrown and enough time to pull up, and - in this environment, probably give him a warning with no fine. But that does NOT mean what he did was within the rules. Yes, I believe it was clean, but not within the rules.


He had a 1/2 freaking second!!! How is that enough time?

No, from the time the QB begins his throwing motion, to the time Harrison makes contact with him, there is almost a full second. At the speeds these guys play at, one second is a lot of time to make a decision and pull up, or go for the hit. The problem, again, was that Harrison went in with his head down and thus, couldn't adjust. That's his fault.

[GBMelBlount]

hey, is anyone paying attention to the lower leg injuries occuring this year because of hitting low instead of head hunting?

How many broken legs, busted ankles and destroyed knees have happened this year?

Wouldn't that be be ironic...

[steelreserve]

Oddly enough, what big money QB was taken out the warrant all these dumb rules? None.

Actually, the current round of don't-touch-the-QB paranoia started when Carson Palmer got his knee torn up in a playoff game against the Steelers ... so that offseason, the league came out with the Carson Palmer Rule, saying that you couldn't hit the QB below the knees unless you were being blocked into him.

It was a pussified rule, but they didn't enforce it all that much. They only started doing that when Tom Brady got hit low and tore his ACL, which in Goodell's eyes was as bad as assassinating the president. That's also when they started being total fuckknobs about hitting the QB in the head. I never really saw them make either the below-the-knees call or the blow-to-the-head call very much until then; roughing the passer was for when you really could've avoided making a big hit.

So basically, yeah -- one pussy ruined it for everyone.


They are being ridiculously, and inappropriately proactive.

They big suits need to invest their money in finding new technology to save the post-NFL lives of Offensive and Defensive lineman.

Not even in the 70's were big money QB's even getting killed. It was warriors like Mike Webster, rest his soul, that were getting their brains bashed in. Just look at where those WR's and QB's are...and look at where the Offensive lineman that were helping make them famous are.

All of this is 100% true. And why I can't take the league seriously when it talks about player safety. If they really cared about anything other than their own image, the first thing they'd be doing is coming up with some better way of softening the 50-plus headbutts a game that each of those guys on the OL/DL endures. Instead, they ruin the entire game "protecting" players who only get really knocked on their asses two or three times a year and rarely if ever suffer any ill effects later in life. But they're visible and flashy, so OMG.

[NCSteeler]

No, as I said before. This is the first time this year that it happened. It also was not the same as a QB in a pocket. I do think those are mitigating circumstances. Also, he WAS a runner and the biggest problem here, IMO, was that Harrison treated him like a runner even when he became a passer again (which is how the league is going to look at it, even though he didn't set his feet). If it was my decision, I'd think about the late hit (see below), and the fact that with the ball being thrown and enough time to pull up, and - in this environment, probably give him a warning with no fine. But that does NOT mean what he did was within the rules. Yes, I believe it was clean, but not within the rules.



No, from the time the QB begins his throwing motion, to the time Harrison makes contact with him, there is almost a full second. At the speeds these guys play at, one second is a lot of time to make a decision and pull up, or go for the hit. The problem, again, was that Harrison went in with his head down and thus, couldn't adjust. That's his fault.

He could have always been juking him. I don't think you can start time until the ball is out of his hands. A little flick of the wrist fake seem pretty standard.

[NCSteeler]

Actually, the current round of don't-touch-the-QB paranoia started when Carson Palmer got his knee torn up in a playoff game against the Steelers ... so that offseason, the league came out with the Carson Palmer Rule, saying that you couldn't hit the QB below the knees unless you were being blocked into him.

It was a pussified rule, but they didn't enforce it all that much. They only started doing that when Tom Brady got hit low and tore his ACL, which in Goodell's eyes was as bad as assassinating the president. That's also when they started being total fuckknobs about hitting the QB in the head. I never really saw them make either the below-the-knees call or the blow-to-the-head call very much until then; roughing the passer was for when you really could've avoided making a big hit.

So basically, yeah -- one pussy ruined it for everyone.



All of this is 100% true. And why I can't take the league seriously when it talks about player safety. If they really cared about anything other than their own image, the first thing they'd be doing is coming up with some better way of softening the 50-plus headbutts a game that each of those guys on the OL/DL endures. Instead, they ruin the entire game "protecting" players who only get really knocked on their asses two or three times a year and rarely if ever suffer any ill effects later in life. But they're visible and flashy, so OMG.

It is an absolute shame that NO ONE in the media will ever call them on this. All this hype around head injuries only to protect players that are rarely hurt and with little late life effects. Mean while the grunts go without notice. And still no mandated safer helmets, no talk of possibly trying a helmet from someone that is not the official helmet of the NFL. NCAA is going to have better helmets than the pros

[NCSteeler]

Halftime ESPN is still pushing the story that a suspension is all but a lock from the NFL front office. To me it would be complete BS for several reasons.
1, first offense this season
2, if we are using past seasons in judgement, Dunta Robinson???
3, There have been a lot worse, more flagrant, more intentional things that have gone without a suspension, see Seymour

I will be very upset if it is anything more than 100k, hell that's a 5th of what the Cheats got for possibly corrupting the outcomes of 30-50 games

[The WH]

Halftime ESPN is still pushing the story that a suspension is all but a lock from the NFL front office. To me it would be complete BS for several reasons.
1, first offense this season
2, if we are using past seasons in judgement, Dunta Robinson???
3, There have been a lot worse, more flagrant, more intentional things that have gone without a suspension, see Seymour

I will be very upset if it is anything more than 100k, hell that's a 5th of what the Cheats got for possibly corrupting the outcomes of 30-50 games


James would be better off financially if he just waited until after the whistle and punch someone in the face.

[katmandu]

James would be better off financially if he just waited until after the whistle and punch someone in the face.That's what Joe Greene used to do! :rofl2:

[fansince'76]

The conspiracy theory Peter King haters should check out CNNSI MMQB column. Peter King thinks that Harrison was justified in hitting McCoy, but thinks the helmet to helmet shot wasnt justified.

No suspension is warranted but probably a fine for the helmet to helmet hit.

You were saying?

[playthegame]

He running, but then stopped to throw...it's really close, but I think it was a dirty hit.

[steelpinstripe87]

That's what Joe Greene used to do! :rofl2:

What????

[SteelerFanInStl]

He running, but then stopped to throw...it's really close, but I think it was a dirty hit.

Nice of you to join the forum just to say that. :troll:

Anyone that has a clue about real football laughs at anyone calling that a dirty hit.

[GBMelBlount]

All that means is that the minority 33% that don't want Harrison on their team are JEALOUS because he NEVER will be ! LMAO !

I would imagine a lot of the 33% have teams that suck and use this logic to explain why they suck.

We suck BECAUSE we are ethcical and don't take trash players like Harrison...and that is the only reason the steelers are good is because they are dirty.

[Count Steeler]

The reputation of the hitter predicates the decision of clean or not clean.

Any other LB, Conclusion: McCoy made a rookie mistake.

Harrison, dirty player, does not respect authority, history of "head hunting", blah, blah, blah. Conclusion: Must be a dirty hit.

Intellectually reprehensible, imo.

[Craic]

There's also a difference between clearn/dirty and legal/not legal.

IMO, it's a clean hit, but is illegal. What is the difference you ask? Let me illustrate. In basketball, you purposefully foul the worst free-throw shooter at the end of a game to stop the other team from getting their best player to hit a 3 pointer. Illegal to grab on? Yep. Dirty? nope.

Same kind of thing here in that, it is a technical violation of the rules, but there is no malicious intent, nor attempt to go outside the rules in order to win or injure. So, clean? Yep, but IMO, still illegal.

[steelreserve]

There's also a difference between clearn/dirty and legal/not legal.

IMO, it's a clean hit, but is illegal. What is the difference you ask? Let me illustrate. In basketball, you purposefully foul the worst free-throw shooter at the end of a game to stop the other team from getting their best player to hit a 3 pointer. Illegal to grab on? Yep. Dirty? nope.

Same kind of thing here in that, it is a technical violation of the rules, but there is no malicious intent, nor attempt to go outside the rules in order to win or injure. So, clean? Yep, but IMO, still illegal.

I get your point, but I'm not sure if Hack-a-Shaq is the right comparison. That's a deliberate foul but within the rules. The NFL is fining and suspending guys for fouls that are technical violations but are mostly total accidents. It's more like fining baseball pitchers for every hit batter, and specifically going after pitchers who are known to favor throwing inside. Hell, I'd go so far as to say it's like fining a batter or a hockey player every time the ball/puck is lined into the stands. They're trying to claim malicious intent on things that happen way too fast for any rule to control them.

I honestly do think that Goodell, having never played football at a high level himself, has been lulled by instant replay into thinking that the game really moves at one-quarter speed, and guys have several seconds to size up a hit and react. That's about the only plausible explanation for all this helmet-to-helmet horseshit. It's impossible for any rule to fix, just like it's impossible to stop the QB from sometimes getting hit in the head by a stray arm, or like it's impossible to stop facemasks or running into the kicker for that matter. IMPOSSIBLE.

[zulater]

I get your point, but I'm not sure if Hack-a-Shaq is the right comparison. That's a deliberate foul but within the rules. The NFL is fining and suspending guys for fouls that are technical violations but are mostly total accidents. It's more like fining baseball pitchers for every hit batter, and specifically going after pitchers who are known to favor throwing inside. Hell, I'd go so far as to say it's like fining a batter or a hockey player every time the ball/puck is lined into the stands. They're trying to claim malicious intent on things that happen way too fast for any rule to control them.

I honestly do think that Goodell, having never played football at a high level himself, has been lulled by instant replay into thinking that the game really moves at one-quarter speed, and guys have several seconds to size up a hit and react. That's about the only plausible explanation for all this helmet-to-helmet horseshit. It's impossible for any rule to fix, just like it's impossible to stop the QB from sometimes getting hit in the head by a stray arm, or like it's impossible to stop facemasks or running into the kicker for that matter. IMPOSSIBLE.

Well said!

[tube517]

hey, is anyone paying attention to the lower leg injuries occuring this year because of hitting low instead of head hunting? How many broken legs, busted ankles and destroyed knees have happened this year?

They aren't "highlight worthy" on ESPN or NFLN. Ben's injury only made the highlights because of how sick it initially looked. It was so sickly looking that the NFL wants to profit off of it.