Mindset of this Team must change - Go for the Freaking Win! Don't play not to Lose!

[BlastFurnace]

Go for the win. Don't play not to lose.

You just knew when they went up 14-0 that it wouldn't last.

Handoff up the middle. Handoff up the middle. So predictable.

This team simply cannont handle having momentum.

[tube517]

Been this way for years. What else is new

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

[7willBheaven]

My main beef with the play call is the next to last 2 drives of the game...run on first and second and then end up in 3rd and long and not converting (while if Wallace held on to the ball they'd been fine). However the play call on the last drive was better...and thats how the previous 2 should have been called.

[fansince'76]

Been this way for years. What else is new

Yep. Pretty much describes Cowher's tenure in a nutshell. Of course, he'd have also been stupid to put the ball in the likes of Can't Graham's and Korkie's hands to try and extend leads in games instead of going into turtleball mode when he got a 10+ point lead as he always did.

[beSteelmyheart]

I was pretty pissed off when they went to commercials in the middle of a drive for no good reason...Did i miss something? (and no, it wasn't the 2 minute warning, there were 11+mins left)

[tube517]

Yep. Pretty much describes Cowher's tenure in a nutshell. Of course, he'd have also been stupid to put the ball in the likes of Can't Graham's and Korkie's hands to try and extend leads in games instead of going into turtleball mode when he got a 10+ point lead as he always did.

Kent Graham Cracker was elite.

[pepsyman1]

Yep. Pretty much describes Cowher's tenure in a nutshell. Of course, he'd have also been stupid to put the ball in the likes of Can't Graham's and Korkie's hands to try and extend leads in games instead of going into turtleball mode when he got a 10+ point lead as he always did.

One difference back then was that we WERE able to run the ball pretty consistently and Cowher (as annoying and nerve racking as it was to watch) had a great record of not losing games in the 4th qtr when we had a lead, unlike what this team has frequently done over the last 3-4 years. If Cowher got a 10 point lead anytime in the 2nd half the rest of the game would be coma inducing but he almost always got the win.

[Moose]

I agree 100% with you BlastFurnace !! When we came out and scored the fast 14pts and the bungholes were 3 and out....not once but twice, I thought, " yea baby, this is gonna be a blow out and we'll win by 3 or 4 TD's, sit back and throw down some cold ones". Then, here it comes, put away the short pass plays ( which are working ) and let's go to the run up the middle, run up the middle, and run up the middle plays....no one will be able to stop that game plan. Of course even the bungholes figured it out and got themselves back into the game, the fans got back into the game, and we started going 3 and out, not once but twice.....or was it 3 times. The play "not to lose" sux. IF we can beat someone 44 - 0 what is the problem ? Why is this NOT a Steeler mentality ? Why do we always have to play conservative ? I know this is typical of our playing ..... but why ? We all know that we've LOST games because of it. GO STEELER's

[SteelerFanInStl]

One difference back then was that we WERE able to run the ball pretty consistently and Cowher (as annoying and nerve racking as it was to watch) had a great record of not losing games in the 4th qtr when we had a lead, unlike what this team has frequently done over the last 3-4 years. If Cowher got a 10 point lead anytime in the 2nd half the rest of the game would be coma inducing but he almost always got the win.

Yep, we don't have the run game that we did then. We're a passing team. That's how we move the ball. We need to stick with what we do best. Those short passes are just as safe as running the ball and more effective for this team.

[SteelerEmpire]

The only thing fresh Arian's brought to the table are those out of the back field runs by Wallace and he let Ben pass a lot more. If not for that it probably would have been a different outcome in this game. But yea, this team has the capacity to DOMINATE but just refuses to do so ! Same ol' Steeler football.

[fansince'76]

One difference back then was that we WERE able to run the ball pretty consistently and Cowher (as annoying and nerve racking as it was to watch) had a great record of not losing games in the 4th qtr when we had a lead, unlike what this team has frequently done over the last 3-4 years. If Cowher got a 10 point lead anytime in the 2nd half the rest of the game would be coma inducing but he almost always got the win.

We can always go back to a road grader OL, a super stud of a RB (sorry, neither Mendenhall or Redman qualify), with a journeyman (at best) QB and mostly mediocre wideouts that habitually lose AFCCGs at home. Personally, I like the current arrangement better.

[Steeldude]

Handoff up the middle. Handoff up the middle. So predictable.



you have to set up that 3rd and long :lol:

[BlastFurnace]

I agree 100% with you BlastFurnace !! When we came out and scored the fast 14pts and the bungholes were 3 and out....not once but twice, I thought, " yea baby, this is gonna be a blow out and we'll win by 3 or 4 TD's, sit back and throw down some cold ones". Then, here it comes, put away the short pass plays ( which are working ) and let's go to the run up the middle, run up the middle, and run up the middle plays....no one will be able to stop that game plan. Of course even the bungholes figured it out and got themselves back into the game, the fans got back into the game, and we started going 3 and out, not once but twice.....or was it 3 times. The play "not to lose" sux. IF we can beat someone 44 - 0 what is the problem ? Why is this NOT a Steeler mentality ? Why do we always have to play conservative ? I know this is typical of our playing ..... but why ? We all know that we've LOST games because of it. GO STEELER's

Just once, I would like to see a 34-0 game that the Steelers win. Ok...maybe more than once, but it gets maddening to see the Steelers get a decent lead and you know...you just know...that it's going to be a nailbiter.

What's wrong with keeping your foot on the pedal and just tearing the opposing team a new one when given the chance.

[43Hitman]

We can always go back to a road grader OL, a super stud of a RB (sorry, neither Mendenhall or Redman qualify), with a journeyman (at best) QB and mostly mediocre wideouts that habitually lose AFCCGs at home. Personally, I like the current arrangement better.

It will NEVER be enough FS. We could win by 21 and fans would be screaming that we should have won by 35. Also I believe that Tomlin is something like 33-1 when having a 14 point lead at any point in the game.

[tube517]

It will NEVER be enough FS. We could win by 21 and fans would be screaming that we should have won by 35. Also I believe that Tomlin is something like 33-1 when having a 14 point lead at any point in the game.

We left 800 points on the field. We suck. :chuckle:

[steelerdiva]

It will NEVER be enough FS. We could win by 21 and fans would be screaming that we should have won by 35. Also I believe that Tomlin is something like 33-1 when having a 14 point lead at any point in the game.


Ya got that right!

FYI....The Whine and Cheese party is that-a-way ----------------------------------------------------->

[NCSteeler]

Just once, I would like to see a 34-0 game that the Steelers win. Ok...maybe more than once, but it gets maddening to see the Steelers get a decent lead and you know...you just know...that it's going to be a nailbiter.

What's wrong with keeping your foot on the pedal and just tearing the opposing team a new one when given the chance.

I was there opening day 2008, I think we were up 34 to 3 or something like that against a pretty good texans squad. Man I thought we could do that to anyone that year, but if I remember right, after that game they were all nail biters. Of course it worked out ok.

[NCSteeler]

It will NEVER be enough FS. We could win by 21 and fans would be screaming that we should have won by 35. Also I believe that Tomlin is something like 33-1 when having a 14 point lead at any point in the game.

Without looking it up, I would have never guess we were up 14 that many times in Tomlin's time here.

[HometownGal]

We can always go back to a road grader OL, a super stud of a RB (sorry, neither Mendenhall or Redman qualify), with a journeyman (at best) QB and mostly mediocre wideouts that habitually lose AFCCGs at home. Personally, I like the current arrangement better.


Me too. :thumbsup: We finally have a QB who can make chicken salad out of chicken shit when necessary and turn a game around in the blink of an eye. He isn't being paid $102 mill to hand off the ball 60-70% of the time - hell - we could have saved that cashola and used Botch for that purpose.

[Texasteel]

Think I was watching a different game. I saw a game plan that was working very well. I saw as very un-Miller like play that gave Cincy the ball on our half of the feild. I never thought Ben could over throw Wallace, but he did twice, 2 over throws that would have been TDs. A wide open Wallace lets a ball bounce of his chest that would have gotten us a 1st down, and more. I saw Brown get open almost every time we needed him to. I saw 2 reverses that worked to a tee, and the same play that got Suggs an Int. worked for a 1st down twice. I can also understand why we took the air out of the ball that last couple time we had the ball. Something that I think most of the coaches in the NFL would have done at that point. Just my opinion but I thought BA called a very good game over all.

[suitanim]

Wait a second. We...........ran too much?

There was another "Bitch at Arians" thread that emphatically stated that we passed too much.
Which is it?

[fansince'76]

Wait a second. We...........ran too much?

There was another "Bitch at Arians" thread that emphatically stated that we passed too much.
Which is it?

Both. The predictable grab bag offensive gameplanning just ain't getting it. :chuckle:

[Texasteel]

Both. The predictable grab bag offensive gameplanning just ain't getting it. :chuckle:


The offense is not nearly as predictable as some of the threads I read.

[X-Terminator]

Wait a second. We...........ran too much?

There was another "Bitch at Arians" thread that emphatically stated that we passed too much.
Which is it?

I mentioned this in the Complaint Dept. thread. The guy is in a no-win situation.

[fansince'76]

The offense is not nearly as predictable as some of the threads I read.

Arians needs to be more like Cam Cameron! Having Flacco pass 50+ times while handing the ball off to Rice 5 times was absolutely brilliant!

[HometownGal]

The offense is not nearly as predictable as some of the threads I read.

AMEN to that! :applaudit: :lol:

[Dino 6 Rings]

First off, once we got the 14 point lead, the Bengals scored on their very next possession. So it was 14-7 by the time we got the ball for the 3rd time on offense.

We start 1st and 10 from our 23, pass on 1st to Wallace get a 1st down.
Then on 1st and 10 from our own 36, we pass Incomplete to Wallace
Then on 2nd and 10 from our own 36, we Shot Gun pass to Miller, Interception.
Entire drive took 31 seconds off the clock and gave the ball back to the Bengals in our territory.

Bengals get a FG and make it 14-10

We get the ball.
1st down Run, 6 yards
2nd down Run, 2 yards
3rd and 2 and we pass, -8 yards...Punt

Bengals Punt

We then drive from our own 13 to the Bengals 20 and Kick a Field goal with 16 plays, 4 runs, 12 passes (including sacks).

Halftime after Bengals get the ball and fail to move it with like a minute left.

2nd half, Steelers up 17-10

1st possession, Run 2 yards, Pass SACK, - 8 Yards, 3rd Pass Incomplete Punt. Run, Pass Pass Punt.

2nd Possession, after the Bengals score on us and tie the game at 17:
Pass, Run, Pass, Run, Pass, Run, Run, Run, Pass, Pass, Run Touchdown. Balance Attack Touchdown to go up 24-17.

then the 4th quarter is a complete cluster fark.

Run Run Pass Punt
Pass Run Pass Punt
Run Run Pass Punt

Run Pass Run Pass Kneel for the Win.

[suitanim]

That possession after it was 14-10 where we ran, ran, passed (3 and out) I believe we started (due to a penalty) on our own 12. I would prefer that we play conservative there, punt and let our defense get us the ball back. Which we did. Then we scored. I have no problem with it.

A for the 4th quarter, I will say it again. The playcalling wasn't the problem (although I DO prefer to run more late with a lead). It was the EXECUTION. We are not executing when we get leads. It's like the offense gets lazy and just assumes we're automatically going to win if we have more than a 3 point lead...

[Dino 6 Rings]

It's like the offense gets lazy and just assumes we're automatically going to win if we have more than a 3 point lead...

I actually think there is something to this, they lose any sense of urgency and seem to just go through the motions at times. Completely lazy looking.

[suitanim]

And they also seem to assume that if they need to score some points at the end and catch up or whatver, they just will...

Heath's freak INT yesterday is proof that nothing is automatic...

[Steeldude]

A for the 4th quarter, I will say it again. The playcalling wasn't the problem (although I DO prefer to run more late with a lead). It was the EXECUTION. We are not executing when we get leads. It's like the offense gets lazy and just assumes we're automatically going to win if we have more than a 3 point lead...

playcalling is part of it also. put the players in a position to execute. football 101

[pepsyman1]

We can always go back to a road grader OL, a super stud of a RB (sorry, neither Mendenhall or Redman qualify), with a journeyman (at best) QB and mostly mediocre wideouts that habitually lose AFCCGs at home. Personally, I like the current arrangement better.

Oh, no doubt. It's just odd to see the same mindset out of a team that no longer has the tools to take that kind of approach. Trust me, with what we've got as weapons, I'd much rather us do the Patriots do: Score points, move down the field, never stop trying to put points on the board and dare teams to stop them. When the Patriots started scoring right before halftime last night against the Jets and then kept it going in the 2nd half was impressive. Brady just turned up the tempo SO high on some of those drives the Jets didn't even have time to figure out their assignments. WE have the weapons and a QB that can do that. We need to. Every chance we get.

[XxKnightxX]

Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

Handoff up the middle. Handoff up the middle. So predictable.

you have to set up that 3rd and long :lol:

"Hey Diddle Diddle, Rogel up the middle"
http://mysite.verizon.net/cjmpsu/psucards/favs/fran%20rogel.jpg

Oh man Look at his number too haha how coincidential. :rofl2::rofl2:

[pepsyman1]

The only thing I really have a complaint about is that we seem to find a solution for a problem, use it once or for one game and then it goes on the shelf. The overall game plan against the Patriots was fabulous. Ben was using a lot of short passes, thrown on 3 step drops and then mixed that with our other "signature" type plays. I saw almost none of that yesterday.

The defense played a lot of press man coverage, but unlike what we did with the Ravens, it was mixed with varying defensive fronts so that Brady didn't know where the pressure was coming from. Against the Ravens, we switched to man coverage but brought no pressure...just our standard 4 man rush. We didn't see a line full of 8 or 9 guys lined up at the ball (even if all they do is drop back in coverage) We only have one CB that can handle that and that's Ike. The point of doing it against Brady was to make him get rid of the ball fast, but not allow his receivers the opportunity to be open for the safe underneath stuff that they usually see against us. We did very little of that against the rookie QB yesterday either. (and had NO sacks)

[BlastFurnace]

Oh, no doubt. It's just odd to see the same mindset out of a team that no longer has the tools to take that kind of approach. Trust me, with what we've got as weapons, I'd much rather us do the Patriots do: Score points, move down the field, never stop trying to put points on the board and dare teams to stop them. When the Patriots started scoring right before halftime last night against the Jets and then kept it going in the 2nd half was impressive. Brady just turned up the tempo SO high on some of those drives the Jets didn't even have time to figure out their assignments. WE have the weapons and a QB that can do that. We need to. Every chance we get.

That is the most maddening part of it. This team has the tools on offense to put a team away. That way, we don't have to wait and see if a hail mary pass at the end of the Jacksonville game is incomplete or not to win the game.

[suitanim]

Steelers fans are like spoiled, petulant children. Coming into the game, the Bengals D was giving up, what? 16 points a game? We were 8 better than average. Nobody cares, they just want to bitch and moan, even in a win, and scapegoat the OC.

It's retarded...and I mean that in the strictest sense...

[BlastFurnace]

Steelers fans are like spoiled, petulant children. Coming into the game, the Bengals D was giving up, what? 16 points a game? We were 8 better than average. Nobody cares, they just want to bitch and moan, even in a win, and scapegoat the OC.

It's retarded...and I mean that in the strictest sense...

So, you have never criticized the team, scheme, or player for anything? If you have, then.....

Part of being on a message board is to banter back and forth.

[XxKnightxX]

So, you have never criticized the team, scheme, or player for anything? If you have, then.....

Part of being on a message board is to banter back and forth.

Agreed 100 %. As My Coach Tom Elsasser used to tell us, "The Day that I stop yelling at you, the day that I stop demanding the absolute best from you, the day that I stop asking for perfection and 110 percent execution, might as well be the day that I stop caring and coaching". We as fans expect perfection at all times from the Steelers . Is it gonna happen? Absolutely not, but we all understand thats part of the game. And some might still be not okay with that, but it shows that they have passion for the game.

[suitanim]

Nice try...you can't hide behind platitudes and "coachspeak". The gameplan was brilliant yesterday, and when the team was actually executing it, we were unstoppable.

Credit must be given to A) The Bengals defense for stepping up and adjusting a bit and B) fate and luck, which were NOT on our side yesterday, as evidenced by the Heath bobble and the sure pick in the EZ that resulted in a bungle TD.

One of the misnomers is that I never criticize Arians...I just did for last weeks game. In fact, I questioned not running at the end of yesterdays game. But there HAS to be balance. If a player drops a pass, how in the fuck is that the OC's fault? Yet we see an incredibly lopsided amount of ignorant hate and just that kind of myopic intolerance for Arians every week. It's disguised in various ways, but what it really comes down to is whining and excuse-making...

[tube517]

Steelers fans are like spoiled, petulant children. Coming into the game, the Bengals D was giving up, what? 16 points a game? We were 8 better than average. Nobody cares, they just want to bitch and moan, even in a win, and scapegoat the OC.

It's retarded...and I mean that in the strictest sense...


Well, Tomlin still needs to be fired. :chuckle:

[BlastFurnace]

Nice try...you can't hide behind platitudes and "coachspeak". The gameplan was brilliant yesterday, and when the team was actually executing it, we were unstoppable.

Credit must be given to A) The Bengals defense for stepping up and adjusting a bit and B) fate and luck, which were NOT on our side yesterday, as evidenced by the Heath bobble and the sure pick in the EZ that resulted in a bungle TD.

One of the misnomers is that I never criticize Arians...I just did for last weeks game. In fact, I questioned not running at the end of yesterdays game. But there HAS to be balance. If a player drops a pass, how in the fuck is that the OC's fault? Yet we see an incredibly lopsided amount of ignorant hate and just that kind of myopic intolerance for Arians every week. It's disguised in various ways, but what it really comes down to is whining and excuse-making...

So, you admit that you question and criticize at times too.

That's what I thought.

[SteelGhost]

That possession after it was 14-10 where we ran, ran, passed (3 and out) I believe we started (due to a penalty) on our own 12. I would prefer that we play conservative there, punt and let our defense get us the ball back. Which we did. Then we scored. I have no problem with it.

A for the 4th quarter, I will say it again. The playcalling wasn't the problem (although I DO prefer to run more late with a lead). It was the EXECUTION. We are not executing when we get leads. It's like the offense gets lazy and just assumes we're automatically going to win if we have more than a 3 point lead...

This sums it up very well for me :thumbsup:

[GBMelBlount]

. It's like the offense gets lazy and just assumes we're automatically going to win if we have more than a 3 point lead...

Good take.

They don't seem to have the collective hunger / urgency / will to win that i have seen in the past imo.

I hope they are are just pacing themselves to peak at the right time....lol.

[suitanim]

So, you admit that you question and criticize at times too.

That's what I thought.

Yup...but I pick my battles. I don't whine incessantly like a spoiled baby and constantly blame every inept thing the players do on the OC. That's intellectually dishonest and lazy, and frankly the kind of thing I'd expect out of the likes of John Harbaugh. It just gets old, week after week, win after win, seeing the same basic nonsense retreaded...

[SteelerEmpire]

Once we take a lead we have 2 options: either we run out the clock, or run up the score. To run out the clock makes absolutely no sense as that can't be accomplished unless you keep getting 1st downs, which in turn brings you closer to field goal range and ultimately, touchdown range (1st and goal). So you CAN'T run out the clock without running up the score as their in a one-one correspondence. So the Steelers should change their fundamental strategy here to "the best defense is a good offense" and be progressive instead of conservative. Not only will it help run out the clock, IT WILL RUN UP THE SCORE putting the game further out of reach for the opponent, and it will help with each offensive players individual stats. This is one reason why Brady has a million passing yards and TD's because the offense keeps playing offense instead of the offense trying to play defense !

[suitanim]

Once we take a lead we have 2 options: either we run out the clock, or run up the score. To run out the clock makes absolutely no sense as that can't be accomplished unless you keep getting 1st downs, which in turn brings you closer to field goal range and ultimately, touchdown range (1st and goal). So you CAN'T run out the clock without running up the score as their in a one-one correspondence. So the Steelers should change their fundamental strategy here to "the best defense is a good offense" and be progressive instead of conservative. Not only will it help run out the clock, IT WILL RUN UP THE SCORE putting the game further out of reach for the opponent, and it will help with each offensive players individual stats. This is one reason why Brady has a million passing yards and TD's because the offense keeps playing offense instead of the offense trying to play defense !
Fundamentally, I agree. However, I would PREFER that we shore up our run game and eat clock and win. It is ultimately lower risk/higher reward to play that way. But we are a passing team now, so we sometimes (last two weeks, in fact) try to keep the ball in our possession by passing. It worked against Cinci, failed against Baltimore.

My PROBLEM is with whiny fans who want it both ways. Preach had a very sarcastic (yet, sadly, also very valid and accurate) post at the beginning of the season that summed up the Arians haters nicely. (I'm paraphrasing):
(Steelers run) "Dangit, Arians, pass it!"
(Steelers pass) "Dangit, Arians, I said run it!"
(Steelers run) "Damnit, Arians, pass the ball!"

And so on and so forth...when Arians calls a pass play, and the WR is wide open but Ben gets sacked because Kemo tripped over his own shoelace, that is NOT the OC's fault. When Arians calls a run play, and the running back is met two yards deep in the backfield because 3 blockers whiffed on their assignments, that is NOT Arians fault. When Heath Miller bobbles a pass that turns into a freak INT, don't blame the OC. When Miller starts blocking downfield because he thinks Ben is running, and a perfect TD pass is called back for illegal contact downfield, you cannot blame Arians.

It's not rocket science. Execution execution execution. And it is just common sense that most running plays have less components and complexities (ergo, less chances for very bad things to go wrong) than most passing plays do...that's why it's usually preferable to run. But if you're a passing team, and you aren't as effective as running as you'd like, forcing the issue isn't necessarily the answer either.

There just seems to be this lazy catch-all panacea for a lot of people to reflexively blame Arians for all our offensive woes, win or lose...

[HometownGal]

Fundamentally, I agree. However, I would PREFER that we shore up our run game and eat clock and win. It is ultimately lower risk/higher reward to play that way. But we are a passing team now, so we sometimes (last two weeks, in fact) try to keep the ball in our possession by passing. It worked against Cinci, failed against Baltimore.

My PROBLEM is with whiny fans who want it both ways. Preach had a very sarcastic (yet, sadly, also very valid and accurate) post at the beginning of the season that summed up the Arians haters nicely. (I'm paraphrasing):
(Steelers run) "Dangit, Arians, pass it!"
(Steelers pass) "Dangit, Arians, I said run it!"
(Steelers run) "Damnit, Arians, pass the ball!"

And so on and so forth...when Arians calls a pass play, and the WR is wide open but Ben gets sacked because Kemo tripped over his own shoelace, that is NOT the OC's fault. When Arians calls a run play, and the running back is met two yards deep in the backfield because 3 blockers whiffed on their assignments, that is NOT Arians fault. When Heath Miller bobbles a pass that turns into a freak INT, don't blame the OC. When Miller starts blocking downfield because he thinks Ben is running, and a perfect TD pass is called back for illegal contact downfield, you cannot blame Arians.

It's not rocket science. Execution execution execution. And it is just common sense that most running plays have less components and complexities (ergo, less chances for very bad things to go wrong) than most passing plays do...that's why it's usually preferable to run. But if you're a passing team, and you aren't as effective as running as you'd like, forcing the issue isn't necessarily the answer either.

There just seems to be this lazy catch-all panacea for a lot of people to reflexively blame Arians for all our offensive woes, win or lose...

Good post Slestak and I agree 100%. :thumbsup: I also remember very well how BA was the weekly scapegoat when our vaunted D blew leads in the 4th quarters. It got to the point of beyond ridiculous.

[fansince'76]

I also remember very well how BA was the weekly scapegoat when our vaunted D blew leads in the 4th quarters. It got to the point of beyond ridiculous.

I'm sure he still is in some quarters...