Are Steelers too stubborn to learn from mistakes?

[SteelerEmpire]

Talks about does LeBeau even care about the top QB's throwing all over the Steelers in the past...

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This is a story about evolution and exploitation.

Can the Pittsburgh Steelers’ great 3-4 defense evolve to avoid being exploited by the likes of Tom Brady(notes) and other high-profile quarterbacks who have picked the Steelers apart since 2006? That’s the theme Sunday when New England visits Pittsburgh. This is the only game the Steelers have during the regular season against a quarterback who can run the four-wide formation with stunning efficiency.

LINK: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-cole_steelers_patriots_spread_achilles_heel_102711

[Edman]

Putting She-Li in the same class as Brees, Rodgers, and Brady.

The Steelers Offense turning the ball over three times (One of them a Pick six) had just as much if not more to do with them losing XLV than whatever Rodgers did. I remember Rodgers cooling off big time for stretches in XLV.

[Psycho Ward 86]

based on the last 6 games against Brady it sure as hell looks like it. I mean damn, we all know he's good, but you'd think out of the last 6 he would have ONE bad game...

[TomlinSteelTribe]

What kind of personnel do you think we should throw out there? I've been thinking we should play 4 down-linemen (Keisel, Hood, Heyward, Woodley) with Timmons and Polamalu as roving LBs, let Clark play centerfield, and have our best 4 CBs (Ike, Gay, Lewis, McFadden). I think this is the best way to match up with NE's more dangerous personnel groupings (2 WR, 2 TE, RB and 3+ WR sets).

We have to try to pressure Brady but can't afford to expose the middle. I mean, the guy's good, we all know it. But let's just basically show our hand in a sense, let Woodley mainly pin his ears back and rush for a game, hope Timmons and Polamalu can dominate the middle. Gotta have faith with Ike in man coverage whether it's against Branch, Welker, or 'stinko. If there is one luxury our secondary has (usually) it's strong tackling. Let's tempt NE to make the their RB the focal point, take the game out of Brady's hands. If NE starts playing bigger sets then bring in Hampton, otherwise he'd be somewhat of a non-factor in my scheme. Foote and Farrior as well... which i know is kinda crazy. But this isn't a gunfight for them at this point in their careers. You can't match them on NE's TEs EVER or you're gonna get exposed.

Hehe, I dunno, at least this is the write-up I faxed Tomlin =P
Nervous and excited about this one. Here's to hoping it ends the right way. Here we go!

[zulater]

I really hope Tomlin overrides LeBeau (if that's what it takes) and they've got some sort of new plan in place to combat the sort of offense the Patriots and Packers employ. As they say insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Our base defense just doesn't match up well against the spread offense. It's time to find out if our defensive players and coordinater are versatile enough to adjust and use different personell groupings and packages. It's hard to imagine they could do much worse trying it a different way?

[zulater]

What kind of personnel do you think we should throw out there? I've been thinking we should play 4 down-linemen (Keisel, Hood, Heyward, Woodley) with Timmons and Polamalu as roving LBs, let Clark play centerfield, and have our best 4 CBs (Ike, Gay, Lewis, McFadden). I think this is the best way to match up with NE's more dangerous personnel groupings (2 WR, 2 TE, RB and 3+ WR sets).

We have to try to pressure Brady but can't afford to expose the middle. I mean, the guy's good, we all know it. But let's just basically show our hand in a sense, let Woodley mainly pin his ears back and rush for a game, hope Timmons and Polamalu can dominate the middle. Gotta have faith with Ike in man coverage whether it's against Branch, Welker, or 'stinko. If there is one luxury our secondary has (usually) it's strong tackling. Let's tempt NE to make the their RB the focal point, take the game out of Brady's hands. If NE starts playing bigger sets then bring in Hampton, otherwise he'd be somewhat of a non-factor in my scheme. Foote and Farrior as well... which i know is kinda crazy. But this isn't a gunfight for them at this point in their careers. You can't match them on NE's TEs EVER or you're gonna get exposed.

Hehe, I dunno, at least this is the write-up I faxed Tomlin =P
Nervous and excited about this one. Here's to hoping it ends the right way. Here we go!

Sounds reasonable, and as previously stated, it's hard to imagine it could do any worse than our normal prescription.

But I'm a fan not a coach, as such I'm much better at diagnosing what didn't work in the past tense then offering any sort of useful solution.:noidea:

Come to think of it, I think that qualifies me to run for political office! :heh:

[Count Steeler]

I think deep down, Brady wanted to be a Steeler. However, being shunned in the draft for 5 or 6 rounds, he has the most enjoyment in beating his favorite team. He seems to really understand our defense and he knows how to read the formations. We have to disguise our intentions better. I'm hoping the improved secondary play will continue this Sunday. I think Brady will put a lot of yards up, but we stop them from TDs in the red zone and force field goals. That will be the key to winning.

[BlacknGoldBabe]

I really hope Tomlin overrides LeBeau (if that's what it takes) and they've got some sort of new plan in place to combat the sort of offense the Patriots and Packers employ. As they say insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Our base defense just doesn't match up well against the spread offense. It's time to find out if our defensive players and coordinater are versatile enough to adjust and use different personell groupings and packages. It's hard to imagine they could do much worse trying it a different way?

If it's broke, you gotta fix it. Seems the defense can't cover enough ground in respect to playing the Pats. Tomlin definitely should override LeBeau if the Pats are continually picking our D apart. Sometimes you have to "think outside the box."

[86WARD]

The natural way to beat the 3-4 is to spread them out. The steelers rarely have an answer for it. I'm guessing, but it seems like historically, they've done their best work against Peyton who pretty much runs a spread and that's it...

[SMR]

The natural way to beat the 3-4 is to spread them out. The steelers rarely have an answer for it. I'm guessing, but it seems like historically, they've done their best work against Peyton who pretty much runs a spread and that's it...

So...we've beaten Peyton more cuz he's more predictable than Brady? :noidea:

[86WARD]

Not sure if that's the case at all. The Steelers Defense has had more "success" against the Colts Spread offense than Brady and the Patriots. Point is, the way to beat the 3-4 is with the spread...which the Colts pretty much run exclusively.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I think deep down, Brady wanted to be a Steeler.

Yeah right! Im sure he's crying in all of his lombardi trophies and league MVP's every night about it

[Steeldude]

lebeau will have the DBs play 10 yards off to let everything underneath go as he prays for a mistake. he will employ bland blitzes that a high school team could stop. that is his recipe for playing the patriots.

[pepsyman1]

lebeau will have the DBs play 10 yards off to let everything underneath go as he prays for a mistake. he will employ bland blitzes that a high school team could stop. that is his recipe for playing the patriots.

Ugh...that's exactly what I'm afraid of. I don't understand what it is that triggers the more aggressive approach for LeBeau and what makes him go real conservative. It seems like the teams that we should at least be SHOWING some different front/blitz packages (even if we then drop into coverage) are the ones we usually don't. I understand his basic scheme, I understand the general approach, but the zone blitz works best if you keep teams guessing and against the top pass teams he doesn't seem to even try to do that.

[oneforthetoe]

We've beaten Peyton more often because he refuses to take what our d gives him. Sometimes he arrogantly tries to force ball and plays into Lebeau's hand. On the other hand, the "effeminate one" calmly takes what we give him and dinks and dunks us down the field until we start pressing a little. At that point we uually give up a big play.

[BlastFurnace]

lebeau will have the DBs play 10 yards off to let everything underneath go as he prays for a mistake. he will employ bland blitzes that a high school team could stop. that is his recipe for playing the patriots.

I'm not anticipating anything different tomorrow, and that includes Brady ripping our defense apart again. I just hope that Ben can put up enough points to win the game. LeBeau can't figure out how to stop Brady.

[TomlinSteelTribe]

I really don't think trying to confuse Brady should be the focus. It's a nice dream, but I don't see it happening. We need personnel on the field who can match up and win. I don't think we have a good chance tomorrow if Hampton, Farrior, and Foote see the field a majority of the time. I hate saying that, love those guys, but it's just how I see it right now.

We have to be able to pressure Brady without throwing the farm at him. That's why I think you let the youth take a place at the table for this one. Give Heyward a lot of snaps. Hood starts. Woodley basically plays DE (maybe drops into shallow coverage a handful of plays, but otherwise rushes). We need a fast team on the field.

[Moose]

I don't think it's being " stubborn ", I just think whatever you come up with to stop him, he and his coaches think of another way to attack. Brady is just a damn good QB. He is hard to get to. I have faith in our Coaches to try to figure out a scheme, but as we've all seen so far in the past year's....damn near impossible.

[zulater]

You know what we might have going for us this time that we haven't in previous games against Brady? Three athletic defensive linemen that can collapse the pocket. The key to this game might be Cameron Heywood, Ziggy Hood, and Brett Keisel applying some pressure up the middle to keep Brady from stepping up in the pocket when Woodley comes off the edge. I really think Cameron Heywood has special qualities, and he needs to be unleashed this game.

[suitanim]

LeBeau will employ 4-5 new blitzes out of his 200 or so he always has on stand-by.

Problem is, the Pats O is pretty good themselves. The difference, I think, is that their protection may not be as solid as they have traditionally had. Rather than tossing both coordinators under the bus, I'd rather credit the opposing team in this case. This may or may not include the Pats ability to know what we run ahead of time.

[zulater]

LeBeau will employ 4-5 new blitzes out of his 200 or so he always has on stand-by.

Problem is, the Pats O is pretty good themselves. The difference, I think, is that their protection may not be as solid as they have traditionally had. Rather than tossing both coordinators under the bus, I'd rather credit the opposing team in this case. This may or may not include the Pats ability to know what we run ahead of time.

If the Patriots win I'm sure I'll say some things I don't necessarily mean and focus more on what the Steelers didn't do right rather than what the Patriots did right. But it usually only lasts for a couple days and then I'll get over it, attribute it to a poor match up, and start looking ahead to the Ravens.

That said let me say beforehand, with the full hope of looking like an idiot later. The Patriots more than any other team seem to have the uncanny ability to change their make up on the fly to suit a game plan specific to whoever their opponent of the day might be. While I like our coaches a lot, this perception makes me somewhat jealous at times of Bellicheat.

[steelreserve]

lebeau will have the DBs play 10 yards off to let everything underneath go as he prays for a mistake. he will employ bland blitzes that a high school team could stop. that is his recipe for playing the patriots.

I don't think there's a better way to sum up our defensive problems against New England. Every other team in the league, we try to take the fight to them - you know, trying to beat them up and keep them off-guard. Against the Patriots, we sit back and play stupid and let them do whatever they want.

We basically say, "OK, let's play plain defense and see if you can beat us straight-up. Here are the four guys we're going to rush, here's our generous coverage - now try to throw the ball on us."

And Brady is like, "OK, thanks for making it easy on us."

Don't understand why we do it. We're worried that our regular strategy won't work against the Patriots? Guess what, this strategy doesn't work either, so let's stop wasting our time with it. We embarrass ourselves and make Brady look way better than he is.

[TomlinSteelTribe]

With the right 4 DL, I think we can show our hand on D and still have success (Hampton is not included in this group of 4). As Zulater said above, Heyward needs to play a big role in this one.

[Craic]

Ugh...that's exactly what I'm afraid of. I don't understand what it is that triggers the more aggressive approach for LeBeau and what makes him go real conservative. It seems like the teams that we should at least be SHOWING some different front/blitz packages (even if we then drop into coverage) are the ones we usually don't. I understand his basic scheme, I understand the general approach, but the zone blitz works best if you keep teams guessing and against the top pass teams he doesn't seem to even try to do that.

My guess. . .

In this matchup, the playoffs. Why giving them tape of your signals during the reg. season? :chuckle:

[suitanim]

Really, what this comes down to is LeBeau's strategy is to let the O play in front of our D, give up the short stuff, and make the other team execute, which is very difficult. The problem for the Steelers is that the Patriots always seem to execute very well against us.

[steelreserve]

Really, what this comes down to is LeBeau's strategy is to let the O play in front of our D, give up the short stuff, and make the other team execute, which is very difficult. The problem for the Steelers is that the Patriots always seem to execute very well against us.

Yeah, it's difficult to execute for a normal offense. Forcing them into the dink-and-dunk takes them out of their comfort zone and eventually they'll screw up. Since all the Patriots ever do is the dink-and-dunk and they've been practicing and fine-tuning it for the better part of a decade, it's not difficult for them. "Making" them keep everything underneath plays right into their hands, and sure enough, all you get are a bunch of 4-yard dumpoffs that turn into 18-yard catch and runs by Welker or the lumbering white tight end, usually on third-and-12. SO sick of the fact that we refuse to adapt.

[Craic]

Yeah, it's difficult to execute for a normal offense. Forcing them into the dink-and-dunk takes them out of their comfort zone and eventually they'll screw up. Since all the Patriots ever do is the dink-and-dunk and they've been practicing and fine-tuning it for the better part of a decade, it's not difficult for them. "Making" them keep everything underneath plays right into their hands, and sure enough, all you get are a bunch of 4-yard dumpoffs that turn into 18-yard catch and runs by Welker or the lumbering white tight end, usually on third-and-12. SO sick of the fact that we refuse to adapt.

Hey, SR, this is quite a funny post in hindsight. Of course, that would be unfair seeing as this is the first time we've adapted in what, 7 years? But it's still quite funny.

[Psycho Ward 86]

based on the last 6 games against Brady it sure as hell looks like it. I mean damn, we all know he's good, but you'd think out of the last 6 he would have ONE bad game...

hell yeah i love being wrong!

[fansince'76]

lebeau will have the DBs play 10 yards off to let everything underneath go as he prays for a mistake. he will employ bland blitzes that a high school team could stop. that is his recipe for playing the patriots.

So much for that...

[Shoes]

So much for that...

:chuckle:

[pepsyman1]

How cool is it that Coach D threw caution to the win and just got after it

[zulater]

Hey, SR, this is quite a funny post in hindsight. Of course, that would be unfair seeing as this is the first time we've adapted in what, 7 years? But it's still quite funny.

True, but you know the difference may be that LeBeau for the first time might have finally had enough defensive backs that he could do these things? Lewis, Mundy, and Gay have made tremendous strides this year, they actually look as if they belong in the league. When was the last time the Steelers had more than one corner that you felt confident in with press coverage?

[Count Steeler]

True, but you know the difference may be that LeBeau for the first time might have finally had enough defensive backs that he could do these things? Lewis, Mundy, and Gay have made tremendous strides this year, they actually look as if they belong in the league. When was the last time the Steelers had more than one corner that you felt confident in with press coverage?

Lake effect. I think Carnell had something to do with this gameplan.

[pepsyman1]

True, but you know the difference may be that LeBeau for the first time might have finally had enough defensive backs that he could do these things? Lewis, Mundy, and Gay have made tremendous strides this year, they actually look as if they belong in the league. When was the last time the Steelers had more than one corner that you felt confident in with press coverage?

LOL. I'm STILL not confident with Gay playing press coverage. We've seen him beaten man to man plenty over the last three years. I think the fact that we were playing tight on EVERYONE made a big difference. Bump and run off the line WHILE we are blitzing can throw all the timing off for someone like Brady and give us a chance to reach a QB that normally gets rid of the ball quickly. I hope that approach becomes PART of our normal defense and that LeBeau uses it or FAKES it like he does the blitz. Not too many teams are able to mix the man pressure we used this week with the zone schemes we usually use. Usually the players are better on a team are better suited for one or the other. (look at how much Asomugha has struggled getting adjusted to zone coverage with the Eagles this year)

[suitanim]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................ummmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmm...............................

http://tweetscakery.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/barney-the-dinosaur.jpg

[fansince'76]

Please keep it respectful, folks.

[GBMelBlount]

Was the defensive game plan brilliant or simply the result of applying common sense.

Our defense looked great.

[O'Malley]

Was the defensive game plan brilliant or simply the result of applying common sense.

Our defense looked great.

I go with comman sense, and it did look great... Maybe man to man will come to be the norm...

[zulater]

If the Patriots win I'm sure I'll say some things I don't necessarily mean and focus more on what the Steelers didn't do right rather than what the Patriots did right. But it usually only lasts for a couple days and then I'll get over it, attribute it to a poor match up, and start looking ahead to the Ravens.

That said let me say beforehand, with the full hope of looking like an idiot later. The Patriots more than any other team seem to have the uncanny ability to change their make up on the fly to suit a game plan specific to whoever their opponent of the day might be. While I like our coaches a lot, this perception makes me somewhat jealous at times of Bellicheat.

Speaking of idiots, I guess I qualify?! :doh: And quite a happy idiot at the moment I might add. :chuckle:

[X-Terminator]

Ya know, I'm starting to get a little bit ticked off with people blatantly ignoring the COC. If it doesn't stop, we may be forced to tighten the reins around here, and I'm sure no one wants that. So please...be respectful and don't flame other members, either blatantly or subtly. I trust this will be the last time this will have to be said.

[zulater]

Ya know, I'm starting to get a little bit ticked off with people blatantly ignoring the COC. If it doesn't stop, we may be forced to tighten the reins around here, and I'm sure no one wants that. So please...be respectful and don't flame other members, either blatantly or subtly. I trust this will be the last time this will have to be said.

????

I saw one post that looked as if it crossed the line, I wont say which or by who. Other than that it looked like most kept their comments on the subtle and humorous side.

[Count Steeler]

????

I saw one post that looked as if it crossed the line, I wont say which or by who. Other than that it looked like most kept their comments on the subtle and humorous side.

At least 2 posts have been deleted from this thread.

[zulater]

At least 2 posts have been deleted from this thread.

Oh that makes more sense then.:sorry:

[polamalubeast]

sorry

[suitanim]

Getting back to the original idea:
Q. Are the Steelers too stubborn to learn from mistakes?

A. No.

So that pretty much ends this thread, doesn't it?