Serious trouble is lurking

[stillers4me]

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin chooses words more carefully and deploys them with a precision far superior to that of your average postgame soloist, so when he simultaneously invoked and then disparaged "mystical" Sunday, it validated every suspicion that he was coaching a team in serious trouble.

"We've got some work to do," Tomlin was saying 10-minutes after the Steelers became a .500 football team with a quarter of the season already elapsed. "It's not anything mystical."

That's a rhetorical bull's-eye, because there is nothing about the total performance through four games that transcends ordinary understanding. That 2-2 you're looking at in the AFC North standings is wholly deserved, or, if anything, artificially inflated...............

Read more @ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11276/1179370-150-0.stm

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

is it time to Unleash Hell yet???

[Austin87]

is it time to Unleash Hell yet???

Hell noooooo!!!

[zulater]

How about we go outside the box? Assuming Ben isn't out for a significant amount of time, how about we target a guard or tackle on another team that actually belongs in a starting lineup and might be available for trade for draft picks from a team in a rebuilding mode?

[XxKnightxX]

How about we go outside the box? Assuming Ben isn't out for a significant amount of time, how about we target a guard or tackle on another team that actually belongs in a starting lineup and might be available for trade for draft picks from a team in a rebuilding mode?

Steve Hutchinson? The Vikings might as well tank it in , Jusssst saying :behindsofa:
Not for nothing but did Tomlins contract get extended? one of my fellow asshole Jet fans brought that up once they were getting demolished.

[venom]

The 2 loses are AFC loses also - thats big

[tube517]

My expectations are low this year. I don't expect better than 8-8. This is a year like 1998-99, 2003, 2006. They need to regroup, like they did in 2001 and 2004, for next year.

[SteelerFanInStl]

is it time to Unleash Hell yet???

I certainly hope not! :lol:

[fansince'76]

Not for nothing but did Tomlins contract get extended? one of my fellow asshole Jet fans brought that up once they were getting demolished.

Yes, through 2014: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10194/1072422-66.stm

And things are going to have to get even worse than they are now for an extended period of time (several years) before the FO even thinks about a change at HC. This ain't the Redskins. The Rooneys won't shitcan a HC for one subpar year. Or one quarter of a subpar year, for that matter.

[BlastFurnace]

Yes, through 2014: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10194/1072422-66.stm

And things are going to have to get even worse than they are now for an extended period of time (several years) before the FO even thinks about a change at HC. This ain't the Redskins. The Rooneys won't shitcan a HC for one subpar year. Or one quarter of a subpar year, for that matter.

I bet Tomlin doesn't make it near as long in Pittsburgh as Cowher did.

[XxKnightxX]

Yes, through 2014: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10194/1072422-66.stm

And things are going to have to get even worse than they are now for an extended period of time (several years) before the FO even thinks about a change at HC. This ain't the Redskins. The Rooneys won't shitcan a HC for one subpar year. Or one quarter of a subpar year, for that matter.

Yeah I dont expect him to get fired , Look at the Dolphins, Im much happier to be 2-2 than those miserable bastards. Anyway I dont mind going through a few rough years, but I think reality has smacked us in the face, its been 6 to 8 years of the same players and I think its time to change the ingredients to the soup. I think with all the vets playing so much, its holding back the rookies that always get released since roster space is limited. Time for the coaches to start coaching and developing. If the Defensive Scheme is "too complex", then start with fundamentals, man to man , simple zone, simple blitzes, and work your way back up.

[fansince'76]

I bet Tomlin doesn't make it near as long in Pittsburgh as Cowher did.

Maybe not - most HCs don't last 15 years in one place. But the Rooneys do have a hell of a lot more patience than the fans, by and large. I do know that much. Plenty of folks called for Cowher's head pretty much nonstop from about 1998-2005, as I recall.

[polamalubeast]

I bet Tomlin doesn't make it near as long in Pittsburgh as Cowher did.

2 participation in the Super Bowl in 5 years.I hope Tomlin will stayed a long time.

It's not his fault if the o-line is bad.

[BlastFurnace]

2 participation in the Super Bowl in 5 years.I hope Tomlin will stayed a long time.

It's not his fault if the o-line is bad.

Who's fault is it then? Colbert? Kugler? Drafting? Players?

The fault lies somewhere. It needs to be fixed.

[polamalubeast]

Who's fault is it then? Colbert? Kugler? Drafting? Players?

The fault lies somewhere. It needs to be fixed.

Colbert and players

[BlastFurnace]

Maybe not - most HCs don't last 15 years in one place. But the Rooneys do have a hell of a lot more patience than the fans, by and large. I do know that much. Plenty of folks called for Cowher's head pretty much nonstop from about 1998-2005, as I recall.

True, but Cowher lost the fan base during those years due to his stubbornness with sticking with Kordell and having nothing behind him to fall back on.

His team was also decimated by FA and injuries.

[BlastFurnace]

Colbert and players

Someone needs to be held accountable.

[fansince'76]

His team was also decimated by FA and injuries.

Yes, and goodness knows, our OL has been the picture of health for the last two seasons....

[BlastFurnace]

Yes, and goodness knows, our OL has been the picture of health for the last two seasons....

That's not an excuse. That line was weak in 2008 as well when they only lost one starter. The only thing that saved that season was a great defense and Ben's ability to bring the team back. Without Ben, that team doesn't win the SuperBowl with that o'line.

[XxKnightxX]

True, but Cowher lost the fan base during those years due to his stubbornness with sticking with Kordell and having nothing behind him to fall back on.

His team was also decimated by FA and injuries.

Are we having the same issue this time, except with Offensive linemen. I mean it is very hard to defend that they have been working hard to protect their franchise quaterback.

[fansince'76]

That's not an excuse.

Then injuries aren't an excuse for Cowher either.

[BlastFurnace]

Then injuries aren't an excuse for Cowher either.

I don't think that the injuries were a part of the discussion with Cowher. You and I both know, because we have had this discussion before, of our frustration with Cowher with Kordell.

[fansince'76]

I don't think that the injuries were a part of the discussion with Cowher.


True, but Cowher lost the fan base during those years due to his stubbornness with sticking with Kordell and having nothing behind him to fall back on.

His team was also decimated by FA and injuries.

That's the only reason I brought up the health of the OL.

[BlastFurnace]

That's the only reason I brought up the health of the OL.

Fair enough. You got me on that one.

Injuries or not, it's been a 4 year trend with this team and the o'line. The mindset with the Steelers regarding their o'line needs to change. Their present view of things isn't working.

[fansince'76]

Injuries or not, it's been a 4 year trend with this team and the o'line. The mindset with the Steelers regarding their o'line needs to change. Their present view of things isn't working.

I agree. Pouncey and Gilbert were steps in the right direction, but (a LOT) more needs to be done. :drink:

[SteelerFanInStl]

Fair enough. You got me on that one.

Injuries or not, it's been a 4 year trend with this team and the o'line. The mindset with the Steelers regarding their o'line needs to change. Their present view of things isn't working.

I agree and I still don't think that hiring a guy who was fired by the Bills, and had the worst OL in the NFL, was the right choice for OL coach. Look at how much BETTER the OL is for the Bills now.

[steel9guy]

What we need to do is bring Tommy Maddox out of retirement. Then the trouble will be gone. He'd do a good job behind our line with his awesomeness and mobility.

[Craic]

Who's fault is it then? Colbert? Kugler? Drafting? Players?

The fault lies somewhere. It needs to be fixed.

At this point, blame the entire organization. Remember, part of the problem with drafting lineman, is that we haven't been high enough in the draft to get a good one for the most part. Every year we sit and watch all the top lineman go off the board.

Part the problem is our refusal to go out and pay some money for a good lineman. I agree that you can't by your way to the SB, but you can sure fill the last couple spots.

[BlastFurnace]

What we need to do is bring Tommy Maddox out of retirement. Then the trouble will be gone. He'd do a good job behind our line with his awesomeness and mobility.

You just want to throw trash in his yard...lol

[SteelerFanInStl]

At this point, blame the entire organization. Remember, part of the problem with drafting lineman, is that we haven't been high enough in the draft to get a good one for the most part. Every year we sit and watch all the top lineman go off the board.

I don't buy this anymore. There are plenty of quality starting OL that are taken after the first round as well as plenty of first round busts. We're just not doing a good job of evaluating OL talent recently aside from Pouncey and possibly Gilbert.

[GBMelBlount]

I think 80% of the problem is half mental...

There's no fire....not even smoke.

That DOES start at the top.

Nor can Ben any longer do 5 step drops.

[BigNastyDefense]

I wouldn't place the blame for the offensive line on Mike Tomlin. When the Steelers went from 1999-2010 without drafting an offensive lineman in the first round, you're going to have problems eventually. Especially when you decide to fix those problems with band-aids instead of true fixes.

That falls with the front office and scouting. Mike Tomlin doesn't make the draft picks or sign the free agents. I am sure he has input that Kevin Colbert wants and needs to hear, but in the end those choices fall with Colbert.

And yes, there are good offensive linemen in rounds other than the first round. But the most dominant offensive line players are often taken in the first round (and more often than not, the first half of the first round). And yes, some of those players end up as busts. But in the end the entire NFL Draft is a crap shoot. For every Tom Brady, there are multiple first round QB busts. For every Orlando Pace, there is a Robert Gallery.

But if you look at a lot of the top left tackles in the NFL, they were taken in the first round. Also, they were taken in the top fifteen picks, where we haven't picked since the 2004 NFL Draft.

And also remember, making a trade isn't as easy as most fans think it is. Every team values players and picks differently. The Cleveland Browns got a haul of draft picks in the last draft from the Falcons. The Falcons decided that all those draft picks were worth losing to get WR Julio Jones.

For us to pick in the top ten, and I don't expect us to be there via record, we'd have to swap first round picks this year. Give up this year's third round pick, next year's first round pick, and possibly next year's third or second round pick (based on team record or what we do in the playoffs).

I wouldn't have any problem with that if it got us a stud left tackle. But then we wouldn't have a first rounder next year to fix another spot on the offensive line or fix the cornerback spot across from Ike. It would also be possible the next year we don't have a pick until the third round. If the Steelers made this trade, there would be fans who flip out about it because they gave up too much.

Also, if we took a left tackle and he turned out to be a bust, people would turn on the FO for making the trade and pick, forgetting how excited they were about it when it initially happened.

[Count Steeler]

Serious trouble is here. We have some problems that may not be able to get fixed this year. Let's start somewhere. Fire Kugler now.

[Godfather]

There's no fire....not even smoke.


That's because McFadden isn't out there to get burned.

[Shoes]

I think the front office/coaches have been riding on Ben's playing style for too long....thinking they can get by as we have in the past. Unfortunately that dog doesn't hunt anymore. The bulk of the problems lie at the feet of the front office/coaches imo.

[oneforthetoe]

I think 80% of the problem is half mental...



"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that." - Homer Simpson.

[BlastFurnace]

I think the front office/coaches have been riding on Ben's playing style for too long....thinking they can get by as we have in the past. Unfortunately that dog doesn't hunt anymore. The bulk of the problems lie at the feet of the front office/coaches imo.

Yep. They have played Russian Rullette for too long.

It's time for them to change their philosophy.

[GBMelBlount]

"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that." - Homer Simpson.

:chuckle:

[BigNastyDefense]

Serious trouble is here. We have some problems that may not be able to get fixed this year. Let's start somewhere. Fire Kugler now.

I would have no problem with the firing of Kugler. He sucked in Buffalo and he sucks here in Pittsburgh.

The question is, who replaces him for the rest of the season?

[fansince'76]

I would have no problem with the firing of Kugler. He sucked in Buffalo and he sucks here in Pittsburgh.

The question is, who replaces him for the rest of the season?

Kinda hard to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He did a pretty good job last year (and was a huge improvement over that waste of space Zierlein), considering the line was no great shakes then either. I think firing anyone at the moment in the midst of a season is a knee-jerk (over)reaction.

[oneforthetoe]

Kinda hard to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He did a pretty good job last year (and was a huge improvement over that waste of space Zierlein), considering the line was no great shakes then either. I think firing anyone at the moment in the midst of a season is a knee-jerk (over)reaction.


See Websters:

Modern Day Sports Fan - a person often prone to knee-jerk reactions and proclamations that "the sky is falling."

[XxKnightxX]

See Websters:

Modern Day Sports Fan - a person often prone to knee-jerk reactions and proclamations that "the sky is falling."

http://afeatheradrift.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/sky-is-falling.jpg

[fansince'76]

See Websters:

Modern Day Sports Fan - a person often prone to knee-jerk reactions and proclamations that "the sky is falling."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO04VXBIS0M

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Steeldude]

Then injuries aren't an excuse for Cowher either.

it was opposite for cowher. a healthy kordell killed him...lol. i couldn't resist

[Count Steeler]

I would have no problem with the firing of Kugler. He sucked in Buffalo and he sucks here in Pittsburgh.

The question is, who replaces him for the rest of the season?

I'm sure there are a few numbers in Colberts/Tomlins Rollodex. A new set of fresh eyes may help.

We have clamoured on here that Colon should play guard. Was that ever tried?
I like the suggestion on this board that Legursky and Pouncey should swap positions. What can we lose?
The continued injuries on the O Line has me concerned about the conditioning routine. Different routine may help?
Foster played better at LG than Kemo. It was the Seahawks, but let's maximize at every position.

Damn the stubbornness and shake up this team. I can't see the O Line being any worse than it is right now. They look confused and out of place. There are way too many plays where blocks are blown. Open defenders ready for a sack or ready to blow up a running play.

I don't know, seems to me like a coach firing would fire up some guys.