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stillers4me
09-27-2011, 07:06 AM
Rashard Mendenhall and the Steelers rushing attack appear to be out of gas as the ground game has come to a screeching halt.

Above all else, the Steelers have been consistent in their proficiency in two general aspects of playing football through the years. They know how to play defense, and they can run on offense.

That is why their inability to generate much in their running game this season has come as a surprise. There was little sign that Rashard Mendenhall, who has run for 2,381 yards the past two seasons, would have such trouble through the first three games.

Consider what offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said about Mendenhall a few days before the Steelers opened the season in Baltimore.

"That's our lead dog," Arians said that Thursday after practice. "Everybody wants to talk about the wideouts and everybody else. Our lead dog is Rashard. We're going into the game with Rashard as the lead dog and everybody else feeds off of him."..............

Read more @ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11270/1177831-66.stm

salamander
09-27-2011, 08:33 AM
They're doing to Rashard what they did to Willie. He's not getting the job done by himself. Redman has proved that he's a good runner so use him more!

tube517
09-27-2011, 08:42 AM
They're doing to Rashard what they did to Willie. He's not getting the job done by himself. Redman has proved that he's a good runner so use him more!

This ^^^

Having a "lead dog" is fine. Trying to make him into a sports car and then run the wheels off of him, he will start to sputter.

suitanim
09-27-2011, 09:03 AM
I'm sorry, but if your offensive line can't block, you can't really blame the RB or the OC.

If we had a different OC, we still wouldn't be able to run the ball.

If Redman was getting 20 carries, we still wouldn't be able to run the ball.

We have a HUGE problem, and it starts right up front. We've now had major problems with very big 3-4 DL, as well as 4 smaller, very quick DL in a 4-3. That doesn't bode well for the Steelers, no matter who calls the plays or carries the ball.

salamander
09-27-2011, 10:00 AM
I agree with you 100% on the o-line. Therein lies our problem. At this point, looking at it strictly from a stats point of view, Mendenhall is averaging 3.0 yds per carry, whereas Redman is averaging 4.2 yds per carry. It just seems to me that Redman is more of a downhill runner than Mendy is at this point and seems to find the holes (what few holes there have been) better than Mendy.

suitanim
09-27-2011, 10:08 AM
I'm afraid that if we switched backs, it would just lessen Redman's effectiveness.

Regardless, we have a major issue up-front. I'm usually pretty optimistic, but I am unusually worried this time. We can't pass block, and we can't run block, we can't block big slow fat guys and we can't block smaller, faster guys, and, what's worse, we have no depth.

fansince'76
09-27-2011, 10:31 AM
If Redman was getting 20 carries, we still wouldn't be able to run the ball.

Exactly. He carried the ball 3 times for 6 yards against the Colts, and essentially averaged the same YPC (2.0) as Mendenhall (2.1).

ALLD
09-27-2011, 03:32 PM
The great experiment of trying to get away with journeymen OL needs to end soon. The Ravens have an average QB, but give him time to throw and he puts points up. Give our elite QB time to throw and he will bring home another trophy.

Craic
09-27-2011, 03:50 PM
First, I find it interesting that we "just now" have a problem running the ball.

Didn't we have a problem running the ball in 2008? how about in 2009? Yeah, Mendy has had a few 1000 yard seasons, but it was because of the amount of rushes just as much as the yards picked up rushing.

When you look at rushing yards pers attempt, the Steelers are only 17th last year. 18th the year before that (09) and 28th the year we won the SB (which again says something about the myth that you have to run the ball effectively to win a SB.) You have to go all the way back to 2007 to see the Steelers having a decent YPA at 7th place.

So this is the 4th year we have actually been having rushing problems. Why is every so surprised now?

Second, I have been for a more balanced backfield for a long time. I think it wears out RB's way to fast to have a feature back. But most RB's don't like that idea. They say that they need those twenty, twenty rushes a game to get into a groove.

zulater
09-27-2011, 04:53 PM
Rashard is part of the problem, I watch the games, he's running too upright, is indecisive to the hole, and largely sucks at the moment.

As for Redman and his 2 yard per carry against the Colts, hard to make a valid judgement when he never got so much as two carries on any one series and a total of 3 for the game. And I suppose none of you were complaining when he got 3 yards on 3rd and 1 to clinch the Steelers ability to run out all meaningfull clock,

YoungMoneyFam
09-27-2011, 05:10 PM
Right now, I think its a combination of both. Mendy is dancing a little too much, but a lot of that has to do with the other team 2 yards in the backfield when he gets the handoff as well.

I've been reading the forum for a while and finally decided to join. Looking forward to talking about how great we are sooner rather than later with everyone!

Craic
09-27-2011, 05:20 PM
Rashard is part of the problem, I watch the games, he's running too upright, is indecisive to the hole, and largely sucks at the moment.

As for Redman and his 2 yard per carry against the Colts, hard to make a valid judgement when he never got so much as two carries on any one series and a total of 3 for the game. And I suppose none of you were complaining when he got 3 yards on 3rd and 1 to clinch the Steelers ability to run out all meaningfull clock,

Remember, Redman is coming in as fresh legs against a defense that has been out there for three quarters. It's the same thing I argued about Willie P. and Rashard. You simply cannot equate a RB that has been running into a brick wall for 3 quarters with a RB that has been sitting on the bench and comes in fresh against tired players.

Moose
09-27-2011, 05:29 PM
First of all, 'welcome to the board YoungMoneyFam'. Hope you enjoy this place as much as I do, and please don't take any criticism or disagreements personnally. It's all in fun and most of the time some good info. and football knowledge. I think it's amazing how much the member's here know of Steeler history and the NFL. Now, on to the topic....I have to agree that we are using Mendy way too much and usually after the first few carries you can see how the running game is going to go. I think at that time is when you bring in Redman, Moore to work along with Mendy and that will open up more plays to utilize. Runs, short passes, long passes, keep the defense guessing. It's not to hard to figure out if it's a run......Mendy is the man to block, and it looks like ALL the teams have figured it out.

zulater
09-27-2011, 05:49 PM
Remember, Redman is coming in as fresh legs against a defense that has been out there for three quarters. It's the same thing I argued about Willie P. and Rashard. You simply cannot equate a RB that has been running into a brick wall for 3 quarters with a RB that has been sitting on the bench and comes in fresh against tired players.

I understand that Preach, in fact as I expressed on a different thread one of the things that disturbs me most is that the Steelers went away from what worked the week before against Seattle. That being using Redman to spell Mendenhall for several series during the game. They split up the work load successfully at about a 65-35% split rate the week before, so when it was clear that Mendy was getting no traction why not go back to that formula against the Colts? Sometimes it's just a case of one back's style works better against a certain team than another. Maybe things would have gone pretty much the same if they had given Isaac some more carries? but I seriously doubt it could have gone any worse. If it's broke it's worth trying to fix, right?

tube517
09-27-2011, 06:14 PM
I understand that Preach, in fact as I expressed on a different thread one of the things that disturbs me most is that the Steelers went away from what worked the week before against Seattle. That being using Redman to spell Mendenhall for several series during the game. They split up the work load successfully at about a 65-35% split rate the week before, so when it was clear that Mendy was getting no traction why not go back to that formula against the Colts? Sometimes it's just a case of one back's style works better against a certain team than another. Maybe things would have gone pretty much the same if they had given Isaac some more carries? but I seriously doubt it could have gone any worse. If it's broke it's worth trying to fix, right?

:applaudit:

Nadroj 20
09-27-2011, 07:29 PM
I'm sorry, but if your offensive line can't block, you can't really blame the RB or the OC.

If we had a different OC, we still wouldn't be able to run the ball.

If Redman was getting 20 carries, we still wouldn't be able to run the ball.

We have a HUGE problem, and it starts right up front. We've now had major problems with very big 3-4 DL, as well as 4 smaller, very quick DL in a 4-3. That doesn't bode well for the Steelers, no matter who calls the plays or carries the ball.

I know it is on lesser carries but Redman is getting more yards per carry. I see it everytime he runs it, he motors forward and busts through the line and makes his own holes. I really think he should at least get more carries to see.

Nadroj 20
09-27-2011, 07:30 PM
Remember, Redman is coming in as fresh legs against a defense that has been out there for three quarters. It's the same thing I argued about Willie P. and Rashard. You simply cannot equate a RB that has been running into a brick wall for 3 quarters with a RB that has been sitting on the bench and comes in fresh against tired players.

This isn't proven until Redman gets the same chance. (not saying bench mendy and let redman start, just saying there is no way to prove that unless redman gets the workload mendy is getting). Plus with what you are saying, shouldn't they be using redman a little more instead of next to none?

zulater
09-27-2011, 08:07 PM
Game 2 Seattle.

Rashard Mendenhall 19 carries, 68 yards, 3.5 avg 1 td.

Isaac Redman 10 carries, 49 yards, 4.9 avg, 1 td.

I'm not bringing up these stats to disparage Mendehnhall. I get that the 2nd string back will often get a higher yards per carry average, likely at least in part due to the feature back being game planned against by the opposing defense.

But the point is that it worked. and it makes sense long term as well as short term. Do we really need to see Tomlin run the legs off another back prematurely as he did with Parker?

So why did we go against what worked so well just a week earlier? It'd be one thing if Mendenhall was just tearing it up, but he wasn't.

Craic
09-28-2011, 01:02 AM
This isn't proven until Redman gets the same chance. (not saying bench mendy and let redman start, just saying there is no way to prove that unless redman gets the workload mendy is getting). Plus with what you are saying, shouldn't they be using redman a little more instead of next to none?

Like I've said before, I really don't believe in the feature back because it really hurts the RB in the long run. Whether it is taking a 30/60 split one week and a 60/30 split the next week, or its having them play 45/45 every week, I don't care. (BTW, those equal 90 since MeMo is in as well).

My point though, was that we can't "assume" that Redman was going to play better, or compare Redman's stats to Mendy's stats and say that Redman was more effective and should have played more. It was Mendy's 2 yard gains that wore the defense down enough to allow Redman's 4 yard gains. That's all I am saying, it is a comparison of apples and oranges.

suitanim
09-28-2011, 05:29 AM
That UFN dude tried to manipulate the stats in similar fashion a couple years ago to prove that Memo was the best back on the team. It's apples and oranges...

GBMelBlount
09-28-2011, 06:40 AM
I'm afraid that if we switched backs, it would just lessen Redman's effectiveness.

Regardless, we have a major issue up-front. I'm usually pretty optimistic, but I am unusually worried this time. We can't pass block, and we can't run block, we can't block big slow fat guys and we can't block smaller, faster guys, and, what's worse, we have no depth.

Agreed. Focusing on Redman, while worthy of consideration, is a minor consideration compared to how devastatingly bad the O line is.

I feel the best short term option may be (as you said earlier) exploiting more spread offenses and pass looks on running plays. I have REALLY noticed that we get consistently abused when we line up in a tight run formation.

It is like day and night.

Nadroj 20
09-29-2011, 03:43 PM
Like I've said before, I really don't believe in the feature back because it really hurts the RB in the long run. Whether it is taking a 30/60 split one week and a 60/30 split the next week, or its having them play 45/45 every week, I don't care. (BTW, those equal 90 since MeMo is in as well).

My point though, was that we can't "assume" that Redman was going to play better, or compare Redman's stats to Mendy's stats and say that Redman was more effective and should have played more. It was Mendy's 2 yard gains that wore the defense down enough to allow Redman's 4 yard gains. That's all I am saying, it is a comparison of apples and oranges.

I'm not only looking at stats. I'm looking at the way Redman runs vs the way Mendy tip toes..uh I mean runs...

Jokes aside, Mendenhall is obviously the starting RB and the best one we have so of course hes not to blame... our line is horrible. But as you said and the biggest point I have been trying to make is Redman needs to get some more carries then just 3.

They could easily give him double digit carries while allowing mendy to be the featured back.

Craic
10-01-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm not only looking at stats. I'm looking at the way Redman runs vs the way Mendy tip toes..uh I mean runs...

Jokes aside, Mendenhall is obviously the starting RB and the best one we have so of course hes not to blame... our line is horrible. But as you said and the biggest point I have been trying to make is Redman needs to get some more carries then just 3.

They could easily give him double digit carries while allowing mendy to be the featured back.

I do agree with you. You can only give the ball to a RB so many times and tell him to slam into a wall before he starts to hesitate and look for openings.